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Microsoft The Almighty Buck Patents

$1.5B Fine Overturned For Microsoft 134

ddrichardson writes "Following up on an earlier story, Microsoft's $1.5bn fine in the case with Alcatel-Lucent has been overturned. Microsoft are claiming a "victory for consumers". From the article: 'A US court has overturned a decision ordering Microsoft to pay phone firm Alcatel-Lucent $1.52bn (£777m) for infringing music patents. The federal judge in San Diego reversed a jury's decision which had ruled that Microsoft's Media Player software infringed on two Alcatel patents.'"
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$1.5B Fine Overturned For Microsoft

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  • by elrous0 ( 869638 ) * on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @09:47AM (#20141183)
    While it may cause many of the MS-bashers here to grit their teeth, it's still good news that this ruling was reversed. This case had ramifications WAY beyond any hassle for MS. Such a sizeable and far-reaching ruling over a couple of obscure patents would have sent a shockwave through the software industry--scaring the hell out of developers and encouraging the patent trolls even more (as if they're not encouraged enough as it is).

    It wouldn't take many cases like this to start a financial recession in the entire software industry and send venture capitalists scurrying away from any software startup.

  • Ho Hum (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TinBromide ( 921574 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @09:51AM (#20141241)
    I'd like to post something witty, funny, or something about how outraged i am about all these patent trolls. Possibly something saying its a shame that they aren't sticking it to microsoft. But when there's like 3-4 patent news items on the front page (possibly only 2 right now), and that's the case every day, i just wish that it would stop. Nothing funny, nothing insightful, just same news, different day.

    Any time that a patent troll, anywhere, is defeated, its a victory for all, not just consumers. More judges need to rule that software patents of the obvious are unconstitutional (i think it was covered by the suffrage amendment) so that slashdot can return to reporting on google and the iphone instead of these patent stories.
  • In lieu of patent reform, in general I am for the defendant in any patent trolling case, which this appears to be. Even though my Linux loving heart hates to see M$ win anything. But given that Fraunhofer wasn't sued, this looks alot more like trying to shoot the biggest fish in the barrel with a pellet gun and expecting the fish and everyone involved to roll over and play dead, AKA pay up. So if M$ won this time, good for them.

    Prolly good for us as well.
  • hmm. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by apodyopsis ( 1048476 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @09:53AM (#20141273)
    A "victory for the bigger legal team" I would expect.

    However, if this means I can still use my MP3 player then I guess its not all bad.
  • by br14n420 ( 1111329 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @10:02AM (#20141377)

    Still let me be an optimist and hope that in the long run at least, the amount of new useless patents will diminish with all the recent victories of common sense.
    Why even say more than this? The previous paragraph just reads like nonsense. How many lawyers represented each side? How many interns did each have? Dollar for dollar, what did each company spend on the legalities? You don't really know any of this. The very weight of the evidence may be enough, sometimes. Geesh.

    Keep on hating M$, while blind to the fact that most of the AP /. articles that come down the pipe end up going to IIS hosted sites when anyone who actually gave a shit would have used an Apache powered alternative source, since AP articles get replicated thousands of times! Sometimes the obvious needs to be stated and you have to ask yourself, "how much do I care?".. :)

  • by 91degrees ( 207121 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @10:09AM (#20141473) Journal
    Microsoft is just a company with good and bad aspects. They are not evil incarnate. Stop apologising for being pleased with the news!
  • by Liquidrage ( 640463 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @10:19AM (#20141609)
    Yes, but you see a long time ago there was IBM and Apple. IBM shot itself in the foot by releasing a good OS in a poor state, and Apple in a desire to control every aspect of the computing experience priced itself out range of most people, as well as kept the needed 3rd parties away.

    So emerged MS. As much as by "right place right time" as anything else. And soon this MS had their software on basically every single user's PC out there.

    But alas, MS got caught with their pants down and did not have an OS that was ready for the internet/computer boom of the mid 90's. So there were issues. And resentment from geeks everywhere.

    And that is the short version of why people make babies.
  • Good decision (Score:5, Insightful)

    by I'm Don Giovanni ( 598558 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @10:23AM (#20141647)
    Microsoft made good faith effort to license the technology in question from Fraunhofer for $16 million. But Alcatel-Lucent claimed that Microsoft licensed it from the wrong party. Even if that were the case, then Microsoft should only have been ordered to pay ~$16 million to Alcatel-Lucent, not 1.5 billion. That's why I felt the jury decision was BS. Why apply punitive damages to Microsoft when they made good faith effort to comply with the patent?
  • Re:Ho Hum (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jedidiah ( 1196 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @10:26AM (#20141701) Homepage
    As long as a distribution like Ubuntu feels a need to leave out the mp3 decoders, then any patent litigation stories are infact "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters". The problem isn't that "we" changed but that the world has gotten more hostile to us.
  • It's a victory (Score:3, Insightful)

    by hxnwix ( 652290 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @10:26AM (#20141703) Journal
    Because they would have passed the cost on to consumers. To quote a Microserf friend, "we charge mondo for our dog food in Europe so that the EC wont forget that we are the big dog."

    Not that we should expect MS to do otherwise. We fine them? They fine us.
  • Re:Good decision (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jedidiah ( 1196 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @10:30AM (#20141735) Homepage
    ...except it's the jury that gets to decide that: for better or worse.

    So it's not so cut and dried. There are plenty of things to be for or against in this case.

    Making a habit of ignoring juries has far wider implications than just patent trolls.
  • by twitter ( 104583 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @10:31AM (#20141745) Homepage Journal

    This case had ramifications WAY beyond any hassle for MS. Such a sizeable and far-reaching ruling over a couple of obscure patents would have sent a shockwave through the software industry--scaring the hell out of developers and encouraging the patent trolls even more.

    This is really more of the same arbitrary justice that make software patents a bad idea in the first place. M$ can and does use the same threats anyway. Their prowess in court only strengthens their position as lord and master. Business method and software patents cover things that are not really inventions, so the results will always be arbitrary and manipulable. The court has decided to promote business rather than justice and such decisions have favored M$ more than once. On these grounds, M$ will violate the patents of other with impunity while threatening everyone else with ruinous legal costs.

    What you have to understand is that M$ itself is a patent troll. Almost all of their software has come from predatory acquisitions but the market has dried up because people are no longer willing to risk their money in the business where M$ can crush them. You must have noticed that all of the innovative companies, Google, Wikipedia, Facebook and others are all using gnu/linux and avoiding the desktop in order to make money. M$ has built themselves a patent warchest to assail those businesses, and has been instrumental in setting up business method and other stupid patents. Others have taken advantage of the situation, but that does not make M$ any less culpable.

    No additional certainty has been added to the market that can benefit anyone. The case is far from settled but it has already cost both companies boatloads of money. Only the largest companies could weather that kind of storm and this will keep investors and small companies out of the business.

  • Sure. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by twitter ( 104583 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @10:43AM (#20141875) Homepage Journal

    More judges need to rule that software patents of the obvious are unconstitutional (i think it was covered by the suffrage amendment) so that slashdot can return to reporting on google and the iphone instead of these patent stories.

    It would be a great thing to eliminate business method and software patents. Until that happens, the costs of them should be shouted from the rooftops. Cool gadgets are not hard to make, but the business is impossible because of crap like this. M$ is the bad guy because they lobbied, right along with the other incumbents, for these stupid patents in the first place.

    its a shame that they aren't sticking it to microsoft

    Yes, if software patents were actually a competitive disadvantage to GWB's little pet company, things might change.

  • Who to cheer for? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by phorm ( 591458 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @10:53AM (#20141979) Journal
    A lot of people always mention being "confused" about who to cheer for in these cases, but it's really not that hard. MS - in this case - really doesn't seem to be doing anything hard. They did in fact even license the Fraunhofer codecs for their mp3-related software in windows. Now it doesn't really mention exact what patents Alcatel-Lucent is pursuing (or suing per), but as they are mp3-related it seems that their behavior definitely seems like a cash-grab.

    It's not a case of "Microsoft VS Patent Troll," it's simply a case of "a large company VS patent troll." There's no need to stick it to MS in this case, as they're in the right and a victory for A-L would have a negative impact upon the rest of the industry. Personally I think that suing for improper/trollish/crap patents should leave one open to double-damage-countersuits. It might cost a lot to defend and rebut, but if you've got an obvious patent troll simply trying to hone in on some cash, making them bleed a bit of money and setting an example for the rest of their ilk might be a good investment (and if anyone can afford to spend cash on anti-troll lawyers, it's MS). As it stands, the way the current patent system is used/abused many of these cases are little more than vaguely veiled extortion, and should in the courts be treated as such.
  • Re:hmm. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Control Group ( 105494 ) * on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @11:12AM (#20142217) Homepage
    Your generalization skills are, truly, impressive.

    Moreover, what else are we supposed to think? As long as you get what you want, I'm OK with ____?

    Self-interest is not only a fundamental feature of human nature, it's a perfectly rational way of approaching the world. If you don't like the fact that someone (in this case, not an American, as it turns out) is OK with this because his MP3 player will be protected, rather than complaining that he shouldn't want an MP3 player, maybe you should try to explain why he should want something else.

    Bitching that someone wants something isn't helpful. Maybe if you explained why his MP3 player isn't worth the price that's being paid, it would be helpful. Most people are open to new information.

    One must base one's opinions on something, and personal satisfaction is a good start. I fail to see why there's some moral imperative for me to be miserable, absent evidence that my personal satisfaction is harmful to someone else (or, even, my own longer-term satisfaction).
  • by penix1 ( 722987 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @11:58AM (#20142857) Homepage

    Such a sizeable and far-reaching ruling over a couple of obscure patents would have sent a shockwave through the software industry--scaring the hell out of developers and encouraging the patent trolls even more (as if they're not encouraged enough as it is).


    Actually, that's exactly what needs to happen in order for the Powers That Be(TM) to realize that the patent system is way broken. A few big companies paying through the nose to patent trolls will be the wake-up call to Congress. Then maybe, just maybe, method patents can be abolished.
  • by twitter ( 104583 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2007 @12:39PM (#20143459) Homepage Journal

    On that list are IBM, Linspire and Sun. The original decision was bad for everyone, though it obviously didn't knock you off your pedestal.

    I fail to see how that makes software patents good for anyone or that there is any justice to their administration. It does make current advocates of software patents look foolish.

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