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Hungary Officials Raid Microsoft Office 170

Posted by Zonk from the can't-keep-its-nose-clean-anywhere dept.
Steve writes "Hungarian government officers raided the offices of a Microsoft subsidiary this week, as part of a probe into the company's relationship with large software distributors. From the article: 'According to the statement, Microsoft used sales conditions and offered software distributors incentives - described as loyalty discounts - so they wouldn't offer clients anything but Microsoft Office products. Such behavior could lead to the exclusion of competitive products from the market and violate European Union rules, according to the authority known as the GVH.'"
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Hungary Officials Raid Microsoft Office More

Hungary Officials Raid Microsoft Office

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  • Hungary, Hungary Hippos (Score:4, Funny)

    by jollyreaper ( 513215 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:25PM (#20012303)
    What, did they think Microsoft had something tasty in there?
  • Now, tell me where your mother****in cookies are!! I'm Hungary!

    Sorry, couldn't resist..
  • Read about this on my Wii last night. What I found odd is they said MS "hadn't done anything illegal" just they were investigating anticompetitive practices, which I dont see how a raid can help that kind of investigation. Think they'd more likely to suponea emails and such.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by poetmatt ( 793785 )
      read about this on my wii last night Be careful. If you read too much on your wii you could go blind! [teenhealthfx.com]
    • Nothing strange about it. They just pointed out that because there is enough suspicion to make someone to sign off on a search warrant it doesn't mean they are guilty. Just a soundbite taken a bit out of context I think.

      Now why use a search warrant instead of a subpoena in cases like this? Because subpoenas are just to slow when it comes to trying to clarify possibly illegal dealings between several conspiring partners. If one of the conspirators get their subpoena just a bit head of the other they likel

    • Think they'd more likely to suponea emails and such.
      I think they know that when an investigation starts... emails start disappearing. [wikipedia.org]
      • You don't need to reference the White House for an example of deleted emails. Microsoft themselves have "lost" emails [pbs.org] required by court subpoena.

        • You don't need to reference the White House for an example of deleted emails. Microsoft themselves have "lost" emails required by court subpoena.

          I see you have a hard time believing it as well. But what recourse do we have when private and public officials lie under oath without any fear of consequences? Scooter Libby just proved that you can be convicted of it and still not go to jail. I'm sick and tired of people copping the Ronnie Raygun excuse, "I don't recall." Yeah, it's up to you to prove the fucker is lying.

    • Re:On Wii news last night (Score:5, Funny)

      by alcmaeon ( 684971 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:50PM (#20012725)
      Microsoft hasn't done anything illegal, but we are a former Stalinist dictatorship, so we just raid people's businesses and homes for the fun of it and to keep them on their toes. It's all the rage. Even the U.S. is getting in on the game. We call it CHEKA-chic.

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by CynicArmy ( 1134061 )
        Nah, they had reports from a reliable intelligence source that there are illegal weapons of mass destruction in the office, so they just sent in the army to grab them, and do a little democratic clean-up in that monopolistic snake-pit. ;)

  • First read as.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:25PM (#20012317) Homepage

    First read as "Hungry Officials Raid Microsoft Office". Well, buy them a pizza.

  • What? (Score:3, Funny)

    by realdodgeman ( 1113225 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:28PM (#20012355) Homepage
    Microsoft uses its monopoly to block others? What is going on here?

    • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

      by Frosty Piss ( 770223 )

      Microsoft uses its monopoly to block others? What is going on here?

      First, Microsoft does not have a monopoly on OS or any other application. Unless Open Offeice and Linux are just figments of imagination.

      Second, generally most companies, not just Microsoft, reward sales people for exclusive representation. Business as usual.

      • Re:What? (Score:4, Informative)

        by jeffasselin ( 566598 ) <cormacolinde@gma ... com minus author> on Friday July 27, 2007 @01:53PM (#20013669) Journal
        Euh Monopoly 100% market. Microsoft does have a monopoly on the operating system market, and has used it illegally. That was clear from the US trial and has been declared such by the EU officials in charge of this matter.

        And this may be regular business for other companies, but although monopolies aren't illegal per se, they face specific legal restrictions as to their business practices. Such as these, which Microsoft is barred from doing.
        • Stupid Slashcode. The first sentence was supposed to be "Monopoly doesn't equal 100% market" but Slashcode ate the not equal.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Danse ( 1026 )

        First, Microsoft does not have a monopoly on OS or any other application.

        Do you know what percentage of consumer-level computers in Europe (or at least Hungary) are running Windows/MSOffice? You don't have to have 100% of the market to be a monopoly, just a very large percentage of it. Such a position gives you major leverage over the vendors because while they may want to sell other brands as well, they can't afford not to deal with you. That's monopoly power. When you combine that with the strongarm business tactics and product tying that Microsoft is known for, along wit

  • Microsoft raids Hungarian government offices... (Score:5, Funny)

    by conspirator57 ( 1123519 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:29PM (#20012397)
    ...for anti-anti-competitive practices. According to a Microsoft spokesperson, "We are troubled by evidence of direct resistance to Microsoft corporate directives."

    In other news, Microsoft is merging with the RIAA and MPAA to reform the Dutch East India Company. Pirates beware!

  • Let's wait a while.. the officials will be hungry; soon as Microsoft makes a revised 'Fact-rich' campaign to fatten these officials, everything will be back to normal again!

  • Same Old Microsoft (Score:5, Interesting)

    by NeverVotedBush ( 1041088 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:30PM (#20012427)
    Doing their best to eliminate all competition with their monopolistic practices.

    It's no different than their blood deals with SuSe and such. Tie everyone up with obligations to not use other products or make them pay royalties with Microsoft's threats of lawsuits for crap patents.

    I bought my last Microsoft product years ago. No way in hell will I support a company like them.

    And for those that talk about Microsoft's "innovation", I'd like to counter with their outright thefts of code (Stacker), their sabotaging other company's products when they detect them running in Windows (Word Perfect), their screwing customers so they could pretend that IE was a critical component of the OS (Win98), and all the other dirty tricks they constantly pull.

    Doesn't Bill Gates have enough money? When will they actually produce a quality product instead of pushing junk on people? When will they let the market actually support innovation?

    Yeah, yeah - I know I am no Microsoft fan boy and this may get labelled as flame bait or a troll, but seriously - this is just another example of Microsoft's dirty tricks and using their weight to screw everyone else - including their very own fan boys.

    • Re:Same Old Microsoft (Score:5, Informative)

      by Actually, I do RTFA ( 1058596 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:48PM (#20012697)

      Doesn't Bill Gates have enough money?

      Actually, no, not anymore. Carlos Slim [nwsource.com] has more, and that cannot stand.

    • Yeah, yeah - I know I am no Microsoft fan boy and this may get labelled as flame bait or a troll, but seriously - this is just another example of Microsoft's dirty tricks and using their weight to screw everyone else - including their very own fan boys.

      Now, I'm not going to come out and say that I will rape you, but, if I was going to pay you for this post, it would be in rape dollars.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by rebootconrad ( 836537 )
      What part of 'fiduciary duty' do you not understand?

      Until you change the system, it will continue to be garbage-in garbage-out.

  • This sentence caught my eye.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by 8127972 ( 73495 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:32PM (#20012449)
    "Microsoft used sales conditions and offered software distributors incentives - described as loyalty discounts - so they wouldn't offer clients anything but Microsoft Office products. "

    And if that didn't work, then they brought out the chairs.

  • Or that stupid search dog.

    That's what I first imagined when I saw the headline.

  • Enough with the MS bashing! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Luke Dawson ( 956412 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:39PM (#20012549)

    According to the statement, Microsoft used sales conditions and offered software distributors incentives - described as loyalty discounts - so they wouldn't offer clients anything but Microsoft Office products.
    That doesn't sound anything like the Microsoft I know.

  • This isn't fair! (Score:4, Funny)

    by davmoo ( 63521 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:39PM (#20012553)
    Wahh!!! Only a handful of comments and still all the good jokes are already taken!
  • it's fun getting into trouble!

  • So, MS, how does it feel? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:46PM (#20012669)
    How does it feel when you didn't do anything illegal and suddenly your office is raided, productivity grinds to a halt and all because someone somehow felt that you might have done something illegal?

    Think 'bout that next time your BSA guys believe a disgruntled ex-employee who just wants to give his ex-company a piece of mind as a revenge bit. Unlike some other companies, you'll brush this loss of productivity off. Other companies ain't so lucky, and a day of ZERO productivity (lacking any other offices abroad that could compensate) is quite hard on companies that have to meet tight deadlines.

    (sorry for the venting, but it really, really felt good)

    • Re:So, MS, how does it feel? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by JustNiz ( 692889 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:52PM (#20012743)
      ...except MS DID do something illegal.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by jollyreaper ( 513215 )

        ...except MS DID do something illegal.
        Only if you can prove it in court. What's the going rate for Hungary judges, a nice pastrami on rye?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jez9999 ( 618189 )
          What's the going rate for Hungary judges, a nice pastrami on rye?

          It all depends on how hungary they are.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Danse ( 1026 )

          Only if you can prove it in court. What's the going rate for Hungary judges, a nice pastrami on rye?
          Actually, like we saw in the last anti-trust trial here, even if you DO prove it, they'll still get off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by DataBroker ( 964208 )
      I was wondering something similar, but almost opposite. In this case, a relatively small office was closed down for investigation. What if the Hungarians declared that they felt that the evidence was also stored on the "main" network, which was connected by intranet. How would MS (or any large company) handle a demand that full access be granted to the entire intranet for investigation. What if the demand included suspending all activity, or introducing all details found into (public) evidence.

      Would
      • Would a large company like MSFT be willing to absolutely refuse demands from a policing body, be it American, the E.U., or Hungary?

        Well, I don't know about Microsoft, but Apple was willing to pull out France and the Netherlands completely rather than make iTunes compatible with other devices to comply with the law in those nations. So, as long as Hungary does not represent a significant portion of Microsoft profits, I think Microsoft would be all too willing to leave rather than comply.

        As to the minimum si

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Lumpy ( 12016 )
      Feels like a BSA raid here in the states.

      We are here to "check you" for "license violations"

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by OrangeCowHide ( 810076 )
      I feel for you. Have you tried sending the BSA a bill?

      We recently had an unknown tipster (possibly the ex-employees who started a competing company using our code base that we are suing for copyright infringement, being the only ex-employees) turn our company into the BSA. We have four employees, 20 machines 10 of which run Linux or BSD, 2 run Novell, leaving 8 windows/macs with a grand total of 20 BSA member programs running on them (including Acroread, and MS Word Viewer), of which 10 were non-free and

      • Unfortunately you can't bill them. If you read the licenses for those BSA-member products, they contain a clause saying you agree they can audit you at any time, with no advance warning, at your expense. Doesn't matter whether they find any violations or not, you foot the bill.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by OrangeCowHide ( 810076 )
          6 of our 10 BSA member products (id est: the non-free ones) were Windows (XP Pro and 2000). I cannot find any terms in the EULA [zdnet.com] (Note: this is the terms for Genuine Advantage, but most MS EULAs are essentially the same) where I agree to perform inventorying on the system at my own cost and expense to be made available at their request. I cannot locate a Mac OS X EULA, but I don't remember that in there either. The other two were an ancient (1996) VB compiler (Which is still MS and is probably an even more p
  • "Loyalty Discounts" is a great propaganda phrase. I wonder if they had some World War II styled posters in their office. Something along the lines of "Good software helps everyone! Show your TRUE COLORS with Microsoft Loyalty Discounts!"
  • Were they hungry Hungary officials? Were white marbles somehow involved?

  • Hungary systems ? (Score:3, Funny)

    by alexhs ( 877055 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:52PM (#20012757) Homepage Journal
    It's Microsoft that introduced the (in)famous Hungary notation.

    Hungary officials obviously weren't pleased ;)

    And I can't resist to link to How to write unmaintainable code [thc.org], a must read if you didn't read it already ;)
    • You mean, "iT's mIicroSoft tHat iNtroDuced tHe (iN)fAmous hUngaRy nOtaTion." There, fIxed iT fOr yOu... ;)

    • Hungarian Notation (Score:5, Interesting)

      by hotsauce ( 514237 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @02:02PM (#20013819)

      No, Hungarian Notation was invented by Charles Simonyi when he worked at PARC. When he took a job at Microsoft and tried to introduce it there, it was completely misunderstood [joelonsoftware.com], and that bastardized version is what most untrained programmers came to know (no thanks to Microsoft's developer training). Since they seemingly couldn't even be bothered to pronounce his name, it became known as Hungarian Notation.

      The real thing is incredibly useful, and I encourage all unfamiliar with it to read through Joel's article.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by jez9999 ( 618189 )
        Interesting, but at the end he bashes exceptions whilst conveniently forgetting to suggest any kind of workable alternative. Without exceptions, you end up with nested if's and/or a doSomething-checkError-doSomething-checkError pattern that looks horrid.
  • http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=256583&cid=200 10655 [slashdot.org]

    I guess the Hungarian office didn't do a good enough job of hiding the illegal with the legal.

  • Hunagary and open-source (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ianare ( 1132971 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @12:54PM (#20012779)
    Not directly related, but Hungary is very much [europa.eu] into open source. Also, according to google analytics for my open source project, I get quite a few hits from Hungary. And remember European Firefox usage from a few weeks ago? Hungary is one of the leading [xitimonitor.com] adopters of Firefox in the world. I wonder if this kind of IT culture has any bearing on how hard they will go after M$.

    • Re:Hunagary and open-source (Score:4, Insightful)

      by broeman ( 638571 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @01:14PM (#20013087) Journal
      and don't forget MPlayer [mplayerhq.hu] :)

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by A beautiful mind ( 821714 )
      That unfortunately doesn't stand for the Hungarian government. They keep giving Microsoft millions of dollars for the so called "Campus" contract, which supplies the whole of hungarian education and universities with "free" Microsoft software, so that the students and professors can use them. Too bad that this is the case, as in my opinion Microsoft should pay for the priviledge instead, since basically they are getting mindshare from young developers etc.
  • While reading the Slashdot arcticle yesterday about how BusinessWeek is advocating Microsoft piracy [slashdot.org], it made me think about how Microsoft may be passively supporting piracy in countries like China and India. They wouldn't have much to lose, since consumers there wouldn't pay for it anyway, and it increases their market share. In essence, it's like they're dumping cheap (ie free) goods on the market and other companies and products can't compete.

    Now, Europeans will actually pay for their product so they woul

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sepluv ( 641107 )

      may be passively supporting piracy in countries like China and India
      Keep up...Bill Gates already admitted doing exactly that in China at least (and I think maybe India too) at a conference. He also said, in a very frank moment, that Microsoft was a bit like a drug dealer trying to get people hooked on their products (before asserting their copyright).
  • Ooops, i hate it when that happends ;-)

  • From: sb@microsft.com

    To: All staff

    All staff are reminded that all agreements encouraging distributors to distribute Microsoft products are illegal and should not be offered to partners. Specifically the practices and strategies listed here: "Extra_Legal_Expenses_for_Beginners" should not be used, and staff are specifically not to offer inducements based on the scales listed here "Hospitality_and_Discounts", and absolutely should not use the codes listed here "Expense_Codes_666" when submitting their expens

  • My hovercraft is full of eels. (Score:4, Funny)

    by JesseL ( 107722 ) on Friday July 27, 2007 @01:37PM (#20013439) Homepage Journal
    This is all probably because of a misunderstanding caused by a bad Hungarian-English dictionary.
  • The officials were also hungry, so after breaking down the door of the local Microsoft branch, they accepted some contract work backing up Microsoft Word, etc. onto a redundant array of independent disks.
  • ...that looks like a refridgerator.

    Badabing!

  • Comments from Budapest (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    First, please stop the hungry-Hungarian jokes. It is not funny. It never was.
    Someone mentioned that open source software is widely used here. Unfortunately, it is not the case. Windows XP and MS Office .doc format is the (un)official standard at lots of places. And the government does not want to change that: for example, the Ministry of Education pays a huge amount each year to MS, for licensing MS operating systems and office apps for every Hungarian schools and universities.
    On the other hand, lots of pir
  • All they found was a paper clip :-(
  • Naaah. Microsoft wasn't trying to maintain an abusive monopoly.

    They were just trying to protect the consumer from a confusing array of choices. Consumers are bewildered by all that computer stuff, and Microsoft just wants to help them.

    All quite altruistic really. Nothing wrong at all. Nup.
  • Can we get enough facts please? What RAID was used? RAID0, RAID1, RAID5...? Which version of Office did they run on the RAID?

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