Second Life Lawsuit Heads to Federal Court 201
Conlaw writes "A former plumbing contractor who has made a new career selling virtual cyber sex toys in the virtual world of Second Life, has now brought suit against another player who is allegedly copying and selling a device called the Sex Gen. The plaintiff, whose avatar is known as 'Stroker Serpentine,' is seeking the real name of the copycat entrepreneur. The reporter describing the lawsuit included commentary from a cyber law professor whose university maintains a virtual Supreme Court in the Second Life world."
They need a virtual court (Score:5, Funny)
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Doing time (Score:2)
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Remember when games were just for fun? (Score:3, Interesting)
What happened?
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It's an MMORPG with no mobs, basically. A particularly slow/crappy one too.. never saw the attraction myself.
There's not even any collision detection, so you can just fly everywhere.. there's nothing to achieve and nothing to do except maybe look at some geeks interpretation of a virtual starship enterprise.
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It's a virtual sandbox playtoy. There are no goals in SL, other than ones you place on yourself.
Wanna have virtual sex? you can
Want to use the scripting and building tools to create interesting toys? Yep.
Want to play "Virtual dolls" and spend your time shopping? Yes, indeed.
Want to hang out with others while listening to a music stream. Yes.
SL is what one makes of it, no more, no less.
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So it's a game then?
Nothing there you can't do in WoW with a bit of imagination (that's what the RP servers are for). The scripting is fine if you're a combination graphics artist/programmer with the money to afford the dev tools, but for us mere mortals, forget it.
Except SL runs at 5fps on a Core 2 Duo with a top of the line graphics card, and Wow runs at 20fps on this old 1.4ghz mac mini.
SL is not a game (Score:2)
what's funny is that it fits the definition of RPG better than any MMORPG, except for the G part. but there is certainly lots and lots of Role-Playing in SL.
It's an Massively Multiuser Holo-Deck then?
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copyright gone awry (Score:5, Insightful)
He's basically talking about animation files. Now, if people literally copy the bits in his animation files, that would be a copyright violation; he'd have a case. But SL makes it pretty hard to do that, and that doesn't sound like what he is complaining about.
Sounds like he is complaining about that people create animations that are "like" his, not merely his. But that basically means that he claims a copyright on the missionary position and that's not right. Copyright doesn't protect ideas, it only protects specific expressions of those ideas. And generic, common expressions aren't copyrightable either, and it seems like the missionary position is pretty generic and common.
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Sounds like he is complaining about that people create animations that are "like" his, not merely his. But that basically means that he claims a copyright on the missionary position and that's not right. Copyright doesn't protect ideas, it only protects specific expressions of those ideas. And generic, common expressions aren't copyrightable either, and it seems like the missionary position is pretty generic and common.
Yes, but this is sex... on the INTERNET. That makes it novel and original, right? I bet he could get a patent on the idea. I'm sure some people would make noises about "prior art", and say it's "obvious" but let's be reasonable, if "sex on the internet" was that obvious why isn't everyone else doing it?
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Actually, while the unmodified client makes it difficult to copy objects without permission, there have been various hacks around for years. Now that the client's been open sourced, that cat's permanently out of the bag.
If you can see it, there's *al
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We're not talking about copying objects, we're talking about copying animations. And while you can do it in principle, I'm not aware of any hacks that actually make it easy. More importantly, that does not seem to be what he is complaining about because he isn't talking about people copying his data, he is complaining about people copying his "ideas". Well, there is
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List of things copybot does here:
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/showthread.php?t=5 063 [secondcitizen.com]
You keep claiming that he's only upset about people stealing his "idea". The article does not support that:
In fact, here's an IR
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No. I'm sure he is upset about many things. Those may include people copying his bits, which is clearly a copyright violation, and which he has a right to be upset about. He may also be victim of a copybot. But that is not what I'm addressing here.
What I am objecting to is that among the many things that this guy is upset about, he is explicitly saying that copying his business model, his work (in a generic sense), and his ideas are
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The guy is explicitly complaining about people "copying his ideas" and "copying him". Nowhere does he complain about people copying his data or files.
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Now scripted devices which provide similar functions in SL are not in and of themselves particularly novel any more; in fact there is a rather popular open-source imp
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Firstly, copybot copies animations: http://forums.secondcitizen.com/showthread.php?t=5 063 [secondcitizen.com]
What's more, here's an IRC log of Stroker discussing copybot: http://forums.secondcitizen.com/showpost.php?p=851 [secondcitizen.com] 56&postcount=78
I'm sure if you care to slog through Stroker's blog and/or message board posts, you'll find him specifically claiming copybot was used on his animations.
You claim the article states he's only upset about people "stealing his idea",
FTA, not even a copyright issue? (Score:2)
On Tuesday, his company, Eros, filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court claiming the avatar known as Volkov Catteneo has violated the trademark on one of his devices called a Sex Gen. Eros claims the avatar has made unauthorized copies of the device and is selling it for a profit.
So he is filing as Trademark infringement claim? Does he own the trademark for the "Sex Gen"? And what does unauthorized copies have to do with his trademark? I sure hope his disposition was better written than the article.
-Rick
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The ability to create avatar animations is built into the system. Not only is it obvious, it's documented and exists there specifically for this purpose, with the expectation that users create, distribute, and improve life-like animations.
Copyright infringement happens when you create a derivative work from an original as well, importing many characteristics of the original.
T
Pinocchio (Score:5, Funny)
I bet anyone who read that will never look at Pinocchio the same.
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But then I did a double take and thought "Maybe he just means the movie as a whole..."
Yes, I'm sick.
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Are you kidding ?
That's one of the first things I did when I was introduced to the internet, I even made a geocities website about it.
Just What We Need More Of..... (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Lawsuits.
2. Taxes.
3. Life
So what does the New World have?
1. Virtual Lawsuits.
2. Virtual Taxes.
3. Virtual Life.
Kinda makes you wonder if people are really as stupid and detached from reality as they act.....
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The Old World had:
4. Death
5. ???
New (note, I only know WOW):
4. Temporary death
5. Ressurection
Actually, that's what I was wondering too (Score:2)
- Virtual lawsuits: nope, don't exist. This is a RL lawsuit, alleging that someone used a hacking tool to copy some copyrighted scripts and animations. The fact that those animations and scripts are used as, basically, a mod for a game, doesn't make it any less real.
To put things into perspective, let's say you wrote a bunch of scripts for anything else: a mod for a game, an application server, whatever. It's your product. Then I come along and not only copy it, but put my name on it and sell it a
I don't know what scares me worse.... (Score:5, Funny)
Either way, I'm going to go cry myself to sleep now.g
All your sex toys are belong to us (Score:3, Funny)
The important thing here... (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't See Anything Wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
This is like HP complaining that Lexmark copied their work/idea about selling printers and expensive inkjet cartridges.
Someone needs to go out a get a third life.
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Plumbing (Score:2, Funny)
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Secondlife Copyright Lawsuit (Score:4, Informative)
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And as all Slashdot posters know, all DRM systems designed to stop copying always work properly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CopyBot [wikipedia.org]
http://news.com.com/2100-1043_3-6135699.html [com.com]
(I have no idea whether CopyBot is involved in this particular case, but it's relevent to the idea that no unauthorised copying could ever happen.)
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Look, here's how it goes. If your business model is based on the assumption that people can't make exact digital duplicates of your products, then you are fucked. No ifs, no buts, it is a bad business model. And for a business like that, profitability is a very, very temporary state. Using realworld legal action to try and protect a business model like this is the epitome of stupid. You made some money, the flaws in your plan were exposed and now you
Re:Secondlife Copyright Lawsuit (Score:4, Funny)
However this comes out, though, you win several billion Silly Points for the inevitable demonstrations of stilted, awkward 3D puppet-sex to a federal judge.
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An analog duplicate would, presumably, be something that copied the look and feel of his product based on someone looking at how it behaved on screen and programming something similar themselves, instead of actually coping his code.
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Saying "digital duplicates" is just a needlessly redundant, repetitive designation that unnecessarily says the same thing over and over without a good reason.
I used to moonlight (Score:2, Funny)
Just imagine his client's faces when he said he creates sex toys in a virtual world on the side. (I imagine he probably didn't tell them that or left plumbing before this but still, it would be funny to see.)
(BTW, Plumbing is fun. Except when it involves feces.)
Convertibility of Linden Dollars (Score:3, Interesting)
On the one hand, Linden Dollars are game tokens. They have absolutely no intrinsic worth in real life, nor does Second Life "property". This means that LL have no obligations to make their systems to "trading standards", and spurious losses are not uncommon.
On the other hand, alongside third parties, LL operate and profit from a currency exchange between US and Linden dollars. They manage the market to try to maintain a stable exchange rate, meaning there is a de facto value for Linden Dollars in real life, even though it is not a currency.
IMHO, the first carries more weight, and it means that the "financial loss" premise for this action is invalid. Whatever the actions taken by the defendant, the plaintiff cannot have suffered financial loss because the "currency" in which this loss has arisen has no statutory value.
personally.... (Score:2, Insightful)
ROFLOL
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That's the kind of greedy stupidity that has tax men worldwide trying to work out how to get money out of the other multiplayer online games as well. Creating a new currency and money moving where they cannot tax it is the sort of thing governments take seriously.
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Great idea!
I could convert all of my real currency into Linden Dollars and that way the government can't tax it!
Now if only I could get a 'bank of Linden' credit card to buy things at real shops...
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Look, as much as I hate taxes, if there's anything I hate more there's an unevenly applied tax. Particularly in SL where it sounds like you're actually coding new items and you get paid in a currency that's officially convertable to USD, is there any reason this should be any different than if I hire a US developer to some coding work for me, payable in NOK? If
Virtual IP, Real Money (Score:5, Interesting)
One would have to assume from TFA that the plaintif has copyright and trademarks that he feels are being infringed on. He certainly has been making real income from a real business, and feels that someone is unfairly making money off of his ideas and stealing his customers. He feels he has a right to the protection of his intellectual property, whether sold through a virtual world or not.
This might be the best case I've seen for drawing firmer lines around what is reasonably protected IP.
Can this case be extended to software patents? Certainly there are some parallels, but is there any chance that a courts ruling in this can be applied to the other issues that the industry faces?
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As far as I can tell, this is a straightforward copyright infringement case based around "look and feel" [pun unavoidable].
OTOH, it could be a lawsuit which he knows will fail, opened just to get free publicity in editorial content. In which case it's been rather successful.
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It's a game. With a bit of luck, you managed to hussle some money out of it. Then others move in. Deal.
Did I mention it's a game? This second life is driving people in directions that are decidedly unhealthy, and I would almost vote to get rid of that game.
Please, how pathetic can you get?
Re:Virtual (Score:5, Funny)
HELP! I'm clueless (Score:2)
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Most slashdotters should be familiar with the concept...
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...and that she has eight breasts and a tail.
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Fixed that for you.
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Re:USA laws don't apply there (Score:5, Insightful)
What really irks me is people who try and make the case that the internet is its own reality.
US should send some aircraft carriers (Score:2)
But hey, if you're in a fatasy world that gives you a fake id, participate in acts that would be illegal in many countries then why should anyone get real world pay out for fantasy world IP violations?
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Not a good idea to support real-world laws to a digital world.
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Actually the Internet is its own unreality like science fiction writing. Things are not tangible, maybe visible in the case of SL but not tangible. The laws of the tangible world do not translate to the virtual world in most cases. When one gains an understanding of the differences then it's obvious new laws need to be applied to the virtual world, not from the real world. It's where these world cross that proble
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What is next, arresting people for assault when they shoot NPC characters in video games? How about player characters?
How about when you get ambushed by an organized gang of thieves. Should you have recourse in the courts?
What societal end is gained by punishing these people? In real life it is obvious - preservation of life and the economy. What economy is there in virtual goods that has an impact on the real world other than ente
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Re:USA laws don't apply there (Score:4, Informative)
Posting from a Wii btw.
Its also in the TOS (Score:2, Interesting)
They do not, however, serve as judge and jury. IP is a legal issue, and so if you have an IP dispute you need to resolve it in court.
I read the article (weird, eh?) and I am not sure if the accused is:
1) Selling byte-for-byte duplicates with the same object name and brand name,
2) Selling byte-for-byte duplicates unde
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You could read the court filing, instead of guessing.
He's claiming both trademark and copyright infringement. It looks like the emphasis is on the trademark, since that's a more clear cut case.
Re:USA laws don't apply there (Score:4, Funny)
I was playing Half-Life 2 last night, so that's gonna be trouble. I could plead self-defense on all the dead Combine, and since they're not *really* people then I could probably dodge a manslaughter charge, but I shot a medic right in the head when he wouldn't get out of my way in the hall and like ten people saw it. Better get Robert Blake's lawyer on speed dial...
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More like:
"If you are a US citizen US laws apply to you and to those around you regardless of where you (or they) are."
Well, thats what the US government and corporates would like anyway.
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I mean.. at least go down the f..ing street and buy a real sex toy if you want one, don't f..ing pretend you've bought one with pretend money in a pretend world...
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And yes, I'm fully aware Second Life isn't really a game: my point is that the sex-simulators he's selling are, themselves, games.
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You're right, it's far more legitimate to sell non-sexual simulations (e.g. typical video games) than to sell sexual simulations. There is clearly something this guy should be ashamed of in the fact that his video games involve sex, whereas Epic's and Id's games don't.
To be fair, from what I've heard most regular game programmers don't have much in the way of a life, either... :) (especially ones working for EA)
Besides, it's more likely this guy's CUSTOMERS that need a first life.
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But then what would become of Slashdot?
A dating site.
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What exactly bothers you? (Score:2)
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