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FBI Finds It Overstepped Bounds in Collecting Data 107

truthsearch writes with a link to a Washington Post article about an eyebrow raising internal FBI audit recently released to the public. The document finds that, contrary to a document release back in March, the FBI frequently overstepped its bounds in collecting data on US citizens. The article states that the organization may have violated laws or agency rules 'more than 1,000 times'. "The new audit covers just 10 percent of the bureau's national security investigations since 2002. The vast majority of the new violations were instances in which telephone companies and Internet providers gave agents phone and e-mail records the agents did not request and were not authorized to collect. But two dozen of the newly-discovered violations involved agents' requests for information that U.S. law did not allow them to have."
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FBI Finds It Overstepped Bounds in Collecting Data

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  • Never (Score:5, Insightful)

    by uberjoe ( 726765 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @01:58PM (#19508451)
    What? The government abused it's power? But they said they wouldn't . . . I must admit I'm stunned.
  • by 192939495969798999 ( 58312 ) <[info] [at] [devinmoore.com]> on Thursday June 14, 2007 @01:58PM (#19508459) Homepage Journal
    Just because the info you got is legal to get, it doesn't mean the way you got it was legal... it sounds in the summary like they think they should escape prosecution/etc because the net result was data they could've got legally anyhow. So if I ask someone for money, and they give it to me, vs. I hit them and take it, I shouldn't get prosecuted, because the net result I'd have received anyhow?
  • by neoform ( 551705 ) <djneoform@gmail.com> on Thursday June 14, 2007 @01:59PM (#19508471) Homepage
    Compared to the illegal wiretapping that Bush & Co. were/are doing.. this seems relatively small potatoes..
  • big suprise.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Victor Tramp ( 5336 ) <info@ross1 5 4 . n et> on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:01PM (#19508499) Homepage
    When a populace forgets that being free doesn't equate to being safe, and when a populace forgets that being secure doesn't mean being being free; then those who seek to have power over the populace, will.
  • Re:Never (Score:3, Insightful)

    by magarity ( 164372 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:09PM (#19508633)
    I must admit I'm stunned
     
    What should stun you is that they not only bothered to investigate it themselves, they've admitted to the public that they've done it. Well, maybe it doesn't stun you because you're so used to it but more people than not in this world live in countries where this would never get investigated, nevermind released.
  • by JustNiz ( 692889 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:14PM (#19508711)
    They must have known and someone must have authorized it. Why aren't we reading about that person being fired or better yet pulled up in court?
  • by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:20PM (#19508785) Journal
    While there is no personal cost to law enforcement agents breaking the law, they will continue to break it. They're human, so that's not suprising.

    Until there is serious punishment liked docked pay, a firing or prison time (depending on the severity) for blatent lawlessness on the part of the law enforcement agencies, they will continue to do as they please.

  • Re:Never (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MyOtherUIDis3digits ( 926429 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:30PM (#19508951)
    What scares me is wondering what's the really bad thing going on that this is meant to distract us from.
  • by elrous0 ( 869638 ) * on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:37PM (#19509053)
    They knew, they just didn't care and never expected to have to answer for it. Yet another shining example of why you should NEVER just take an administration or agency at its word when they say "Don't worry, we promise not to abuse this power."

    If this is what the FBI has gotten away with, it sends a shudder up my spine to think what the NSA has gotten away with (and is STILL getting away with). I wouldn't be a bit surprised to learn that they're randomly fishing the entire U.S. population: listening in on citizens' calls, opening mail, and perusing credit reports. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that they have the phones of every Democrat in Congress tapped and are passing along that info to the President. Nothing would surprise me anymore in this country.

  • by magarity ( 164372 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:38PM (#19509065)
    The vast majority of the new violations were instances in which telephone companies and Internet providers gave agents phone and e-mail records the agents did not request
     
    How the heck is this a "symptom of this runaway federal power binge"? Sounds more like extremely poor data security management at the service providers. Meanwhile, there were 22 cases out of a thousand in the audit where agents asked for more than they were authorized to get. That's hardly a runaway binge. Next time, please rtfa.
  • by noidentity ( 188756 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:50PM (#19509357)
    They were "collecting data on US citizens". I guess that's the modern way to say they were spying.
  • by zooblethorpe ( 686757 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:51PM (#19509389)

    And allow me to rephrase that for you:

    While there is no personal cost to corporate agents breaking the law, they will continue to break it. They're human, so that's not suprising.

    Until there is serious punishment liked docked pay, a firing or prison time (depending on the severity) for blatant lawlessness on the part of the corporations, they will continue to do as they please.

    There. Now we've covered both halves of this corrupt equation.

  • by BobMcD ( 601576 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:53PM (#19509423)

    I _know_ that this is not likely to be a popular opinion. I _know_ that this is decidedly unpatriotic, but I want to say it anyway:

    This just isn't worth it.

    The cost of our 'war on terror' is far outstripping any harm that those 'terrorist' groups could have done to us. We have sacrificed the lives of young men and women to war than were lost on 9/11, by a long shot. We have likely spent, or at least will spend, far more money than we lost in that attack. We have lost our faith in our leadership's ability to keep us safe and happy at the same time. We're losing our civil liberties and are devolving into a police state.

    WHY?

    Is this all really, truly just because a handful of zealots MIGHT crash more planes into more buildings?

    People joke about "if you do 'x', the terrorists win". In all seriousness, the truth is, if we are going to live in fear we may as well forfeit.

  • by jmorris42 ( 1458 ) * <{jmorris} {at} {beau.org}> on Thursday June 14, 2007 @03:01PM (#19509563)
    Ok, an internal audit found a few (a couple dozen so this piece says) places where they probably crossed the line. They found a problem and will now see what policy changes can be made to reduce the chances of it happening again. The system worked as designed. Massive government operation makes mistakes, film at 11. Hello! It's a massive inefficient government operation changed with the almost impossible task of doing both law enforcement AND anti terrorism/counter insurgency operations while Democtats insist they do it with both hands tied behind their backs and hopping on one foot. The amazing thing is they have managed to keep anything from going FOOM! for almost six years and only having a few excersions from the insane rules imposed on them.

    Listen up you primitive screwheads, I really think we should be playing to win, if we keep screwing around with these assholes, sooner or later they are going to get another major win and we will lose another major landmark. There is a difference between law enforcement against citizens and spying on foreign powers and their operatives inside our shores. So yes there should be strong safeguards to prevent intelligence data (collected with few rules) from crossing back into law enforcement activities, but spy vs spy stuff can't play under the same patticake rules we go after the mob under or we lose. Because the mob isn't out to KILL us, only sell us things we want anyway but the nanny state doesn't think we should have.
  • Criminal Cops (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @03:26PM (#19510087) Homepage Journal
    When you (except you, the FBI agent snooping on this message) or I "overstep bounds" like those the FBI "overstepped" in this operation, we're guilty of breaking the law. We're criminals. The people the FBI are responsible for arresting and pushing into the justice system that jails us.

    Who at the FBI will even get fired for their crimes? Who will be charged? No one. They should be held to a higher standard than are civilians, because of the stakes at risk in their control, and the trust they're given based on their superior integrity. But instead, no one every gets fired, no one is ever charged.

    We cannot be surprised when cops not only do crimes repeatedly when they're not punished, but are more tempted to do them, their integrity undermined. Because by failing to hold them to account, to pay for their crimes, we demonstrate that our laws are arbitrary, our government merely force, not justice.
  • by danpsmith ( 922127 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @03:35PM (#19510275)

    The cost of our 'war on terror' is far outstripping any harm that those 'terrorist' groups could have done to us. We have sacrificed the lives of young men and women to war than were lost on 9/11, by a long shot. We have likely spent, or at least will spend, far more money than we lost in that attack. We have lost our faith in our leadership's ability to keep us safe and happy at the same time. We're losing our civil liberties and are devolving into a police state.

    Of course. However, you have to ask yourself why 9/11 is enough to mount a large "war on terror" spending billions around the globe and what Iraq has to do with 9/11. The answer is kind of staring us all in the face. 9/11 provides a great excuse for military spending and filtering of contracts and dough to certain people in positions of power in certain corporations. Someone wanted us to go to war before 9/11, a whole lot of people wanted us to. 9/11 is the *excuse* for the killing of the young men, but it's definitely not the reason they are dying. 9/11 is the excuse for the domestic spying, but it's not the reason why it's being done. People in power love to create wars and police states if they have the stomach for it. It's clear that our present leaders do indeed have the stomach for it. It's been said before by someone, and again I'm probably misquoting, that if Bush didn't have 9/11 he would've had to make one. I'm not saying 9/11 was fake or anything (those 9/11 conspiracy people are nuts), but it was certainly very convenient for him and his cronies.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, 2007 @03:52PM (#19510549)
    The problem is this is supposed to be the land of the free. Many people sacrificed their lives in order to keep it that. If you're willing to give up YOUR freedom in the name of safety, I'll lock the door on your padded cell myself. The rest of us will go on living outside your cell, facing the threats from tornados, car crashes, and terrorists. With any luck, we might even recognize their causes. With even more luck, we might address the root issues (hint, it's not that someone has a gun/bacterium/nuke).

    I'm leaving the military after 18 years because of the arrogance this country is exhibiting. It's clear to me that our real problem is people like you who cannot look beyond a few terrorist trees, to see the forest. Then again, maybe we've already had our chance. Time for a global reset. I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

    Name's Ash. Housewares.
    1. 10-20 million of Texans [wikipedia.org] have been starved to death, as their food "surplases" were confiscated.
    2. 90% percent of farmers joined collective farms [wikipedia.org].
    3. The concept of "money" was eliminated [open2.net].
    4. 30 million of Americans were declared "enemies of the people" and sentenced to 25 years of labor camps without the right to correspondence [wikipedia.org].

    Just putting it into perspective... There are abuses, and there are other abuses...

  • Re:Never (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Intron ( 870560 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @05:17PM (#19511975)
    They have admitted it and as a result, the people within the FBI responsible for breaking the law have been identified and fired.

    Oh wait, no they haven't. There seem to be no consequences at all.

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