Spy Chief Hints At Limits On Satellite Photos

An anonymous reader writes "Vice Adm. Robert Murrett, director of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, says that the increasing availability of commercial satellite photos may require the government to restrict distribution. 'I could certainly foresee circumstances in which we would not want imagery to be openly disseminated of a sensitive site of any type, whether it is here or overseas,' he said. This would include imagery on Web sites such as Google Earth, because the companies that supply the photos get help from the NGIA with launches." I had never heard of this particular intelligence agency. During the early months of the invasion of Afghanistan they bought up all satellite imagery over that country, worldwide, in a tactic later dubbed "checkbook shutter control."

panic?

[blhack]

While i understand the logic here to an extent, it is a bit of a knee jerk reaction. If somebody really needed ariel photos of a place for illicit purposes it would be MUCH easier for them to obtain them from a balloon, or even an airplane. Not to mention the fact that they would be much more up to date. Its not like google earth has chloe sitting there hacking into the secret reserved spy satelite and feeding a live stream to the turrists.

Coming soon to a country near you...

[Kuroji]

I'm sure that Congress will pass a bill restricting the distribution of satellite imagery attached to something else that must pass in the near future. Something innocuous and large like a budget or telecom related bill.

On the plus side, the images that are already out there are staying out there, so some things like Google Earth are just going to become outdated, but they've already been doing this in some other circumstances - ever try to look at any of the buildings in DC for instance?

Slashdot Strategy Sessions

[Anonymous Coward]

"we would not want imagery to be openly disseminated of a sensitive site of any type, whether it is here or overseas"

This guy has it all wrong - they should be opensourcing these images, not closing them off. Let the denizens of parents' basements across America search for signs of Osama. We could have slashdot strategy sessions:

slashdotter 1: 'We need to lure them with a weak force down the center, then surprise outflank them - it worked for the Carthaginians.

slashdotter 2: 'You asstard: the Carthaginians were destroyed - the Romans sowed their fucking fields with fucking salt. someone mod this dipshit down

Re:Restriction on restriction

[garcia]

The only thing they'll accomplish by a restriction is hurting US business. The images will still be available from European and Japanese satellites.

Or US companies will just start doing more flyovers like they have been for Microsoft's Live Maps which offer views of locations from multiple locations (N, E, S, W). They are already trying to ban picture taking by civilians at various locations (what is this fucking North Korea?) and the flyovers will be next :(

Re:torn between privascy and rigth to know

[Tuoqui]

You could always cover you property in a giant tarp. That way they cant see whats going on underneath it...

Ofcourse that only works if you have a relatively small property.

Re:You americans are living in intelligence hell

[megamerican]

Your rant doesn't fit into the argument of this article in the slightest. If the NGA tries to restrict satellite imagery again like it did in Afghanistan it will effect everyone, not just Americans. There most likely won't even be a complete blackout in an area. They might restrict the most current photographs that would show American troops, but showing a picture taken in 2000 or another arbitrary date that doesn't show sensitive information wouldn't need to be blocked. It would be dumb to think that the NGA would publish photos of American troop movements or let others do so.

In this country we have a system of checks and balances, so no one of the three branches rule our country. Certainly none of these service organizations do either. Their budgets are way too small and most have direct congressional oversight. Our system is far from perfect, but it works well. This is not the place to bash America, or any other country.

Intelligence Agency?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you click around the NGIA website long enough, you will wind up at an open Netscape LDAP server, where you may freely search the agency's employee LDAP tree. There are some visible admin links, but I didn't click any. Most of the information is mundane, but each search result included full name, employment status (contractor/fte), sex, and user ids. Hint: you get there through a link in a PDF available on the site. You might not find that information interesting, but others might (it is a government intelligence agency, after all).

I question the legitimacy of any intelligence agency this sloppy. I bet they have as much depth as the DHS.

Re:A Message from the Ministry of Truth

[Jarjarthejedi]

Google it, it's a quote (mixed up but accurate nonetheless) from 1984 by George Orwell. I believe the GP is commenting on how this act is a very Orwellian move by the government, trying to restrict information. Personally I have to agree, most countries have spy satellites, at least ones that are considered powerful, and so really if the terrorist's have any links to any countries, no matter how obscure, this won't matter. This is really nothing more than a solution to a problem that doesn't exist...a solution which won't work...remind anyone of anything *cough cough* DRM *cough cough* copy protection *cough*

Re:Intelligence Agency?

[Anonymous Coward]

>I question the legitimacy of any intelligence agency this sloppy.

I hope slashdot will let me make an anon posting today.

I know quite a few of the people who work in that office, because they provide a great deal of Geospatial data to us research types, to the USEPA, to the USGS, to state agencies, etc.

The thing I wanted to point out is that many of them could, if they chose, greatly increase their salaries if they wanted to work in the EPA, USGS, or for a municipal survey organization. They choose to stay at the federal level either because it is a good way to start a career, or because it's important to remain there until retirement (there are vanishingly few employees in-between). It's a different kind of Dilbert Principle that's somewhat unique to government work.

India is the only other country ..

[viksit]

..to offer that kind of imagery at the resolutions of 1m or less. There's no way people are going to sell their rights - especially if they're foreign governments.

ISRO (Indian Space Research Organization) is the world's third and only second non-US supplier of 1-m imageries and perhaps the most competitively priced; the data comes at a premium of nearly 40 per cent. Some data is internationally priced at $18-20 per picture of a sq km.

From http://www.india-defence.com/reports/3031 [india-defence.com]

Restrictions? Laughable.

Can you receive and decode this stuff yourself?

[ikekrull]

I know that weather satellites transmissions can be received and decoded using a PC easily enough - I wonder just how much more difficult it would be to decode signals from imaging satellites from your own dish?

I'm sure they use some type of encryption, but you know, thats not always (e.g. HD-DVD) the barrier it is supposed to be. Also, recent events such as the Tamil Tigers hijacking satellite bandwidth makes me wonder just what might be possible.

Anyone do any satellite hacking?

Re:torn between privascy and rigth to know

[Duhavid]

And, you can put advertising on the tarp.
Rent it out, you know.

How to stop companies selling pictures of home

[TheMCP]

1) Paint a picture on your house. Heck, you could even just paint an interesting geometric design on it. Just make it interesting enough that people wouldn't laugh at you if you called it "artistic expression". Stick a copyright symbol on it somewhere. If you're feeling particularly zealous, take a picture of it and register for a copyright with the copyright office [copyright.gov].

2) Identify company selling pictures of your house showing the picture or design you painted.

3) Sue them under the DMCA for selling pirated reproductions of your copyrighted "artistic work" (aka the paintjob on your house).

Surprised it's taken so long

[clickclickdrone]

I was on Microsoft Live's maps last night (first time) enjoying the birds eye view of my house (really impressed, can see individual items in the garden and my car parked outside). I then wondered how much sensitive stuff was allowed so I scrolled over to a military research place near where I live. Almost nothing is known about his place apart from its existence and that it's something to do with testing & research. Well, it was all there. I spent an hour looking at the bunkers, tanks, gun emplacements, various buildings, roads, railways etc. I was amazed I was allowed. I then moved over to an island nearby that is shared between military and farmers - non residents need a pass to visit. That was all there too.
With a bag of goodness like that online, I just don't know where to 'snoop' next!

Re:Reverse monopoly will stop that

[zero_offset]

What makes you think it didn't happen that way this time around?

I casually know the guy who owns Space Imaging. He's an old friend of one of my oldest friends who runs a GIS company and uses tons of satellite and aerial imagery (usually of military bases, actually). These companies already operate under a vast and complex body of regulations about who can and can't get pictures of various places, so this was probably a smaller step for them to take than most people are assuming.

There are a few things to keep in mind:

First of all, they're businesses, and for most businesses, practically anything is possible if the price is right. That probably offends the wild-eyed idealism of the typical slashdotter, but slashdot is probably the last place you'll find much understanding of life in the real world.

Additionally, most of their income is derived from custom runs. So it's a pretty safe bet that the government wasn't really denying all that much information to the general public.

Finally, it seems pretty unlikely the government was buying imagery. It seems far more likely they were paying these companies to not produce it in the first place. In other words, the company says, "We average $50K per month in custom fly-overs, so if you want a 6-month moratorium, cut us a check for $300K." Certainly it was more complex than that, but I'm sure you get the gist of my point.

Re:Restriction on restriction

[tinkerghost]

Actually this administration scrapped the FEMA structure & bundled it into homeland security without creating clear channels of communication - at the same time blocking a lot of the old channels.

Next they had a report that New Orleans was in danger from a cat 3 or better hurricane - a report that was frighteningly accurate - that they discarded because they felt the damage estimates were much too high. This is just one of many examples for this administration where they cherry pick the information to act on in order to further their private/political agendas instead of actually bothering to understand the situation and take action that might actually have a real & lasting benefit.

I've said it before - this Iraq war is just the Shrubs way of showing daddy his balls are bigger.

Re:Restriction on restriction

[drgonzo59]

That's so true. It happened to my friend in the pre-9/11 world. He was talking something about the president and how vulnerable he would be to assination or something like that on a public forum. There was nothing about anyone wanting to do it or planning or saying that it would be a good or bad thing. Before he knows it, FBI comes to his work to have 'a talk' with him and scare him with some macho 'we are all powerful, we pop the eyes out of the 1st Ammendment's skull fuck the sockets if we want to.' Then at the same time they send a team to his house to talk to his wife and 5 year old daughter. They sat the daughter down and asked her if daddy builds bombs in the basement... -- real story (search Kuro5hin for it). That all was happening as the real terrorists were planning their 9/11 attack. Gotta love our government...