Montana Says No to Real ID, Passes Law to Deny It 518
SoCalChris writes "Montana's governor signed a bill yesterday in defiance of the Real ID Act. House Bill 287 [PDF] requires the Montana Motor Vehicle Division to not implement the provisions of the Real ID Act, and to report to the governor any attempts by any agent or agency of the Department of Homeland Security to attempt to implement the bill. Montana is the first state to implement such a law."
About Time (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope Montana doesn't fold when the feds start pressing them like everyone did over the drinking age.
blast from the past (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow, I love this (Score:5, Insightful)
1. They are for their constituents interests on this one.
2. They are standing up for State's rights and not handing over ever more power to the federal government.
Kudos to you Montana. As Stephen Colbert migh say, You've got balls!
Constitution (Score:5, Insightful)
YES! (Score:4, Insightful)
All this does is make life harder on regular people. Just like gun laws- when the current laws are not being upheld, lets make more! Just uphold the current laws on getting a driver's license. At least in Pennsylvania, you have to provide a birth certificate and another form of ID. If the states' held up this standard in the first place, you wouldn't have to implement a secondary layer. Pass a law making the states to uphold their current standards.
Blah, I hate government in general. Sorry, just had to pay taxes....
Re:Wow, I love this (Score:4, Insightful)
states rights (Score:3, Insightful)
2. They are standing up for State's rights and not handing over ever more power to the federal government.
Montana has pretty much always stood up for states rights. The one tyme I can think of they didn't was when they raised the legal age for drinking to 21.
I'm glad to see another state stand up against the Real ID Act. But as Vermont's logo is "Do not tread on me" I'm supprised they didn't pass such a law first.
FalconRe:Lesson for the world (Score:2, Insightful)
As it is, bin Laden (if alive) and his crew must be guffawing about how they've destroyed so much of that 'decadent infidel regime' in the west that also goes by the name of 'freedom'.
Not really, because the idea that they "hate us for our freedom" is pure bullshit propaganda. They hate us for continually dicking around in the Middle East, and we are still doing it, and it's getting worse. The fact that we're throwing away our civil liberties is incidental to people like Bin Laden.
Re:About Time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Lesson for the world (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't get your statement. I get up in the morning, feed my child, take a shower, go to work, go home, do my wife, go to bed. The same as I did before the government took away all my rights. Please tell me what I'm missing so I can be an angry citizen like yourself.
Thank you.
ArcherB
Re:About Time (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow, you're right! No one would ever get behind the wheel of a vehicle without a proper license! Problem solved.
You're kidding, right? You do know lots of people drive without a license. They're not usually caught until they're in an accident.
Re:Good for them. (Score:5, Insightful)
Thats the key phrase, right there.
who hasn't broken some law or another?
For those people that dont care about CCTV and Orwellian ideas that they have in Britain because they dont think of themselvs as a criminal, Think Again.
In Singapore chewing gum and spitting are crimes
Speeding is a crime, not using your turn signals is a crime
Books and CD's have been banned in schools
Trans Fat is illegal in some cities
And it works both ways, Republicans or Democrats, Left or Right.
What if gun were banned?
Missed Child Payments
what if using a racial slur was a criminal offense
Getting angry and making a threat.
Vengeful Neighbours
Banning certain music or concerts dances clothes
its goes on and on and on
Sadly, its not to hard to imagine.
Once the goverment gots you, the GOT you, your in the system.
good luck trying to fly
good luck renewing your license (Driving, Hunting, Practicing whatever...)
good luck getting a job or a mortgage
Re:About Time (Score:2, Insightful)
If a truck driver gets drunk and kills a few people, revoking his Drivers liscense is the last thing people should be concerned with.
It would be far better to let him work and pay retribution.
No, people like you want to put the person in a place where he can't pay retribution, and will work in the lower tax bracket and pay less taxes.
Finally, and this is MOST important, so try to focus both your brain cells here:
The US is a bunch of individual states, not one big unified country. There is a reason for this, and if you don't know what that is I suggest you make some effort to educate yourself.
Re:Constitution (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Lesson for the world (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Lesson for the world (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, I'm sure Bush is the most moral person on the planet, so HE would never do that, but you've now opened the door for *some* future administrator to claim that one of his more radical political opponents is a terrorist and that political rival will disappear, effectively becoming a political prisoner, just like Mandela was in South Africa. Only nobody will know where this person even went.
With that kind of power, it's inevitable that some day the US will become a place where people are afraid to openly criticize their government.
Re:About Time (Score:3, Insightful)
OK, then what's wrong with narrowing that down to ONE database? Does making the same job easier somehow take away all of our rights? With that logic, we should take away all the government's computers and make the use a chisel and stone. That should make use uberfree!
Lets see (Score:3, Insightful)
Even under Nazi* rule, you would have been fine.
Of course the moment there is a glitch, or someone that doesn't like you makes a phone call, then you relize those things you never used may have been a tad important.
Tlak to annyone who has had some lie to authorities about child abuse. They are guilty until proven innocent. Even if that can prove there own innocents, you are still watched and checked up on.
Now, how can you prove to me you haven't abused your child?
That is the same kind of logic the admintration, homeland security, and the people running Gitmo use.
Along with questions like
"Will you stop all terrorist acitivties?"
" I never..."
"YES OR NO!"
"no"
"So you admit you were a terrorist."
*I am not comparing this situation with the Nazi. Only using the to illistrate that jst because you keep your head down and don't make waves doesn't mean you have any rights.
Re:Good trend (Score:3, Insightful)
So, if we don't bother to unelect them when they abuse us, aren't we really just getting the government we deserve?
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.aclu.org/privacy/gen/29426prs20070418.
Re:governor (Score:3, Insightful)
Now if only our "libertarian" government would quit kowtowing to the influx of Californian cash, maybe we really CAN keep this state free...
We didn't get to vote on the open container law. We didn't get to vote on the smoking ban. They were pushed through by legislators catering to the new citizens in the Yellowstone Club. Just love it when people leave their state because they don't like what it's turning into, and the first thing they do when they get somewhere else is push to make it more like what they left.
-l
Re:Huh? (Score:2, Insightful)
I assume it was signed, though it hasn't been announced yet.
Full text here:
http://www.leg.wa.gov/pub/billinfo/2007-08/Pdf/Bi
Re:About Time (Score:1, Insightful)
Sorry for posting anon, but just covering my ass.
Re:About Time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good for them. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:About Time (Score:3, Insightful)
Citizens of different states have different rights. Some of these rights govern how the government(s) can collect and use information. (For example, information gathered during a police stop.) How do you propose to make one database that protects the rights retained by one state and not by another?
the government's
Ah, here's what you're missing, government in this case is plural. If you live in a united State, you live under two separate and distinct governments, one State and one federal. Driver's licenses fall into the state category. You give some personal information and a few dollars to your state, and your state allows me to drive a car on the roads. Because your vote is stronger in your own state than in federal elections, you also have a lot more control over how that information gets used. With a shared database, you would give up this level of control over your personal information.
Re:Lesson for the world (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, a non-drinker during prohibition lost the "right" to drink. Can you tell me what a federal ID will prevent me from doing?
As to the rest of your post, I don't see how a national ID standard gives the Feds any more power than they have now.
Ben Franklin (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:About Time (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Of course (Score:2, Insightful)
What are we scared of? Why not allow anyone to come into this country? It will make us so much stronger of a nation. Immigrants wont always be poor if we give them the freedom to be successful.
Besides this we have no reason to be tracking our people in a free nation. ID just does not prevent crime. We do not live in Soviet Amerika yet.
But it is not a good substitute for nylon (Score:3, Insightful)
How do you know, have you done any research on using hemp instead of nylon?
As a climber I'd hate to carry a wet hemp rope
The cords of the parachute that saved expres Bush Sr, when he bailed out over the Pacific when his plane was shotdown were probably made from hemp. The US government went so far as to make a movie, "Hemp for Victory" [archive.org], to encourage farmers to grow hemp during the Second World War partially because of the need for ropes. Now I've never carried hemp cord so I can't say how heavy it would be dry or soaked, but the gov decided it was worth it to grow hemp. Admittedly though nylon cord is light, while I've done a little climbing and would like to do more, I used to repel a lot. Off of clifts mostly but some out of helicopters.
and as a driver I'd hate to have a celluloid air bag in my car.
How do you know air bags made from hemp wouldn't be able to do the job? Or is there some other problem?
FalconRe:Good for them. (Score:3, Insightful)
Though I am sure that Nazi Germany, the USSR for much of its history had a national card. Papers please. Oh, and Greece has a national ID card that you must produce on request ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ID#Countrie
My point is not that a place will become totalitarian, simply that it becomes a heck of a lot easier. The benefits are mainly for those who would increase the power of the state.
Re:About Time (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Lesson for the world (Score:3, Insightful)
Good morning friend!
We noticed a number of oddities in our records and were hoping you might like to demonstrate your patriotism with an explanation of yesterday's infractions:
1) Your daily alotment of water is 379.35 gallons (US). It appears that you have attempted to do 2 loads of laundry and flush your toilet 5 times, in addition to your standard morning usage. Since your grace quantity is 25 gallons, we must inform you that you have now garnered 7.35 misdemeanor points on your RealID.
2) Food sensors indicate that your Child ingested nearly 53 grams of processed sugars yesterday. As you are well aware such dangerous levels of sucrose can lead to hyperactivity and possible injury, not to mention severe oral hygene problems and a pronounced increase in the likelihood of obesity. We have passed our records on to your local child services coordinator. We hope that with the proper supervision you will be better able to manage the health and patriotism of your child. Since this is your second offense, we are required to inform you that any further infractions will lead to a temporary revocation of your "parent" status. Also, 12.1 misdemeanor points have been added to your RealID total.
3) It has come to our attention that your intimate relations with your wife do not conform with the three prescribed forms. Please see publication 14T-S for a full description of the acceptable forms. Please be aware that continued violation of this statute will lead to a full review of your marriage license. Since this is a first offense, and the position in question was judged to have been "in transitition", no misdemeanor points have been assigned. In the future it would be wise to decouple before attempting to roll over.
Of course, due to the nature and severity of these infractions, these matters cannot be reviewed by the open court system, as they might incite further acts of indecency and treason. If you feel you have been wrongly implicated and seek judicial review of these convictions, please present yourself at your nearest processing station on the 15th of the month. If cleared you will be released no later than the 25th of the following month.
And remember, only terrorists and traitors have anything to hide!
Re:Lesson for the world (Score:5, Insightful)
And if they want to know about it, you may ask yourself what they are going to do with this knowledge.
Re:About Time (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.asp?contro
* Eliminated the "general welfare" open door
* Enforced free trade and opposed protectionism
* Prevented Congress from appopriating money for internal improvements intended to facilitate commerce (e.g. pork-barrel public works)
* Gave the President line-item Veto (only 130+ years earlier!)
* Appropriations required two thirds majority
* Eliminated cost-overruns for government contractors
* Eliminated omnibus spending bills - no hidden expenditures
Oh, and before the revisionist history trolls start knee-jerking about slavery, please read the article - in particular, the quote from Abraham Lincoln.
Re:License (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, the wretchedly tiny minority of genuinely good people in small government is slightly larger than the wretchedly tiny minority of genuinely good people in big government ... but that's like saying that a vegan's feces will have more intact kernels of corn than those of a guy who eats nothing but steak. Either way, you have to go rooting through shit to find out, and neither is really any better than the other. There are easier ways to get corn.
And "individuals"? They are remarkably rare. Anyone who actually thinks about anything beyond who America's next top model will be, is in such a small and inconsequential group of people that nothing they do is capable of having any real impact on anything ... other than to invent new technologies that can be used to make everyone more affluent and less free.
I know, it's hard to accept the reality of this: one of the most fascinating psychological phenomena discovered in the past decade is the fact that nearly all Human behaviour and social understanding is predicted on the assumption that we are in the majority. We assume that whatever we want, whatever we believe, whatever we choose, is what most everyone else will wants/believes/chooses. But if you actually stop to think about anything beyond the most superficial drivel, you have placed yourself in a tiny, tiny minority, and nothing about you or what you think or believe is even remotely representative of your society.
"states rights" is a marketing slogan (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:About Time (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably allowed by the Interstate Commerce Clause (hereafter referred to as "ICC"), since radio waves often cross state lines. Still, it's a bit of a stretch.
Good question -- the Constitution provides for a navy, but armies are supposed to be raised ad-hoc for a maximum of two years. So is the Air Force more like a navy or an army? Or should it have required an Amendment to exist at all?
ICC, probably. Also, it could be construed to be a "post road."
I'd say "unconstitutional;" they were probably (dubiously) justified by the ICC.
The FBI is on thinner ice than the CIA here; I'd say it could maybe be justified by the stuff about punishing "offenses against the law of nations" or the bits about the militia. The FBI I can't justify.
Part of the Navy; it's OK.
It's a stretch, but maybe it could be classified as "militia."
Unconstitutional, no question (again, dubiously justified by the ICC).
To make laws about only those issues that can't be handled by the states.
Yep, that is how it was originally intended to be! The states were supposed to have more (or at least equal) power than the Federal government, and the people (and local goverment) were supposed to have more power than the states. Instead, the Civil War, New Deal, and everything after that created this topsy-turvy situation, which isn't how it's supposed to be at all.
I wish. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court is appointed by the Federal goverment (do you see the problem?).
Re:About Time (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes.
An entity doesn't have to have a "President" to be considered a country; in fact, most countries don't have "Presidents." They have "Prime Ministers" or "Premiers" or "Kings" or "Dictators" or whatever instead. In this case, the supreme executives were called "Governers."
Yes. This should be obvious, since they still do that now!
Ditto.
Yes [wikipedia.org] (scroll down for discussion of individual states' currencies).
They all had, and in fact still technically have, their own militias.
Who did you think they sent to the first and second Continental Congresses? Clowns?
Yes.
Re:About Time (Score:3, Insightful)
If all the data is in one large national database, then breaking into it could leak license data from literally everywhere in the country.
Also, anyone can figure out which addresses likely belong to the federal gov. Finding state databases would be slightly trickier, esp. if it's not your own state.
Illegal Immigrants are caught all the time. (Score:4, Insightful)
This ID card will not help with keeping illegal aliens out of the country because we don't DO anything when they are caught.
It WILL allow the government more control and easier suveilance of all citizens. This I cannot abide.