German Police May Not Break Into a Suspect's PC 123
hweimer writes to tell us that a ruling in Germany's Supreme Court has made it illegal for the police to secretly hack into a suspect's computer. While some hailed this as a victory for civil rights, Germany's Interior Minister Wolfgang Schauble is expected to push for changes in the legal framework to allow police hacking.
Re:Parser error (Score:5, Informative)
German Law (Score:5, Informative)
I could be wrong, but as I see it tracking someone's activity online is similar to watching someone in a public space which is (somewhat) reasonable; and it could (hypothetically) be argued that any data being sent via the internet was like yelling across the field. Someone's computer (on the other hand) is private property and they have the right to believe that it is a private space (much like your house).
Amazing: no twisted analogies (Score:5, Informative)
Germany has stricter privacy laws, more passionately enforced, than the UK/US, but this decision is completely compatible with UK/US law that says the scope of a search has to be explicitly defined and minimal. Spyware on a computer fits neither criterion.
Re:Sounds fine to me (Score:5, Informative)
So the court likened this to wiretapping the phone or using secret microphones to listen to conversations in the suspect's home ("Großer Lauschangriff"), which both need a warrant.
Re:Sounds fine to me (Score:3, Informative)
Not quite correct. It is also illegal when the police gets a warrant (which they have currently done). The court judged, that hacking into a computer is not covered by the laws of wiretapping (which they are allowed to do secretly with a warrant), but that it is search and seizure. Contrary to wiretapping, search and seizure has to be done in the presence of witnesses of the community (e.g. neighbours). After the search, the suspect has to be delivered a notice about the warrant, a protocol about the search and the confiscated items.
Re:Amazing: no twisted analogies (Score:3, Informative)
For as much shit we give the Germans with the "Zee papers please!" skits they are really on the ball when it comes to personal freedoms over there. From my understanding they recently struck down a law that bans smoking in restaurants and clubs as unconstitutional whereas states in the US and the UK government are banning such practices.
I guess a nation has to go through something really big so that they really respect individual's rights over the collectives.
Re:just change the name (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe he shouldn't have read 1984...
If THAT guy's actions aren't anti-constitutional, then I don't know WHOSE are!
Even those jerks from the NPD (the "nazis") are more freedom-and-democracy-loving!
Re:Another issue with this... (Score:3, Informative)
The police are allowed to do a whole lot of things that are not allowed by ordinary citizens (i.e.: arrest for misdemeanor crimes, use lethal force to prevent convicts escaping from a penal institution, provide protection for the local courthouse, etc.). If there is a warrant by a court of jurisdiction, then, yes, blocking the "police sniff" would probably be illegal; however, if Citizen Joe knows nothing about this warrant and is simply securing his network, then any offense brought against Citizen Joe about blocking the search warrant will be challenged in the courts.
Re:Amazing: no twisted analogies (Score:1, Informative)
And, one might add, someone who is reminded of "Zee papers please!" when thinking about Germany probably has not much experience in Germany. While it is true that we have ID cards (and everybody has to have a valid ID card, or alternatively a passport), in reality you are hardly ever asked for ID in Germany. There are specific situations where one is asked for ID (eg. when collecting a package from the post office which was deposited there for you), and I was asked maybe 3 times or so for my driving license in the last 15 years in traffic controls, but apart from that I cannot remember any such situation that people seem to think of when they link "Germany" with "Papers please". Probably those people are just watching too many WWII movies...
Re:Amazing: no twisted analogies (Score:2, Informative)
http://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/166.html [dejure.org]
But there are more. I say freedom of speech is better protected in the US than in Germany. But Germany has better privacy rights.
Re:Oh, Germany... (Score:1, Informative)
bureaucracy: hellish
architecture: does only partially go to the nazis account. Especially in the 70s and in back-then socialist Eastern Germany architecture was very bad - and those architectural crimes had nothing to do with bombings
car craziness: while we are a car crazy bunch over here, traffic death counts are very low compared to other countries (and even on the no-speed-limit Autobahn)
social welfare: yep, pretty fantastic over here. But we pay a heavy toll for it - very high unemployment (and I would argue that even the offical numbers are way too low) and very high taxes.
education: Well I think we're worse than the US and the internatinal PISA-study showed this. This is sad because the public school system in the US seems broken.
human rights: while do not have a Guantanamo I am very sure that given popular vote Germany would bring back the death sentence. Freedom of speech is worse while privacy laws are way better.
Re:Sounds fine to me (Score:3, Informative)
My take on Germany... (Score:5, Informative)
Bureaucracy in Germany is like much of the EU: there are regulations for almost anything. This does, however, have a silver lining as that means less legal battles. The courts aren't as bogged down since there are less "grey areas", so legal insurance is a lot cheaper. Some companies are returning to Germany because of the high cost of legal battles elsewhere.
Architecture is improving in Germany, as the butt-ugly buildings get torn down to make way for more modern structures. I would say that most larger cities now have spent a great deal to make their centres attractive pedestrian zones.
Car craziness in Germany is different than in the USA, but not any worse. The SUV remains an exotic animal, and fuel efficiency is playing a larger role. Move into the cities like Munich, and a car becomes a liability due to the lack of parking and the net of public transportation. That said, the sons of my neighbour spend incredible amounts of time washing and cleaning their cars, caring for them more than for their girlfriends. The elder one actually presses his GF into vacuuming the upholstery with him!
Social Welfare in Germany is still better than elsewhere, but it's also seen as a burden. Germans are born worrywarts, and the low birth rate means that the ratio of retirees to wage-earners is like a Sword of Damocles. The reforms currently being enacted are painful, mainly because for the first time social benefits are being cut, not expanded.
Education in Germany has one huge, huge problem, and that is the way it divides pupils at age 10-12. Starting then, children are stuck into one of the three secondary schools: the Gymnasium for future academics, the Realschule for vocational careers, and the Hauptschule for the rest. As a result, those kids that have the misfortune to only attend a Hauptschule will later have an uphill battle to get a decent job, and it's incredibly difficult to switch paths. The Hauptschule has become the school for "losers".
Human Rights, though, is one area where modern Germans are especially proud. Despite what the occasional beer hall pundit might say, only a tiny minority is really for the death penalty. Germans instead see themselves as better than the "barbarian" American justice system mainly because they don't have a death penalty. Human rights activists have more clout and respect in Germany than in any other country I have lived in.
Privacy was after the Nazi regime a sore point with Germans. That's why this case was so important, as it represented the digital equivalent of a secret search warrant. Germans are also leery of video surveillance, and those measure already installed in train stations and other public places have to follow strict rules. Herr Schäuble's populist clamour for new laws is not even supported by the police, as the current laws still allow for snooping in the internet, just not on the suspect's hard drive without his knowledge.
Re:Oh, Germany... (Score:2, Informative)
I don't put much value into that study. Put a bunch of pupils in front of a test and tell them it doesn't get graded. About half of them (low estimate) won't even attempt to get it right and instead brag about the kind of nonsense they produced. I think I was involved in one of these tests back then and I certainly didn't place the source of the Danube in Turkey because I believed in it.
Re:My take on Germany... (Score:3, Informative)
I have seen this as a parent; thankfully my daughter beat the report from her elementary teacher that she was "a little dumb" and is now a top student in her Gymnasium class. I have also seen it from the teacher's POV, as my wife is a teacher in a Realschule, and is often upset by the attitudes of her tenured colleagues.
Sorry, drifting way off topic, I know, but this is an issue I care deeply about.