Scientology Critic Arrested After 6 Years 1046
destinyland writes "Friday police arrested 64-year-old Keith Henson. In 2000 after picketing a Scientology complex, he was arrested as a threat because of a joke Usenet post about "Tom Cruise Missiles." He fled to Canada after being found guilty of "interfering" with a religion, and spent the next 6 years living as a fugitive. Besides being a digital encryption and free speech advocate, he's one of the original Burr-Brown/Texas Instruments researchers and a co-founder of the Space Colony movement."
Previous Discussion (Score:5, Informative)
Scientology and its ilk are all CULTS (Score:2, Informative)
Up to date information on thecult of Scientology [rickross.com] or its offshoot cult The Landmark Forum [rickross.com]
Hail Xenu!!! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Scary (Score:3, Informative)
Have we in the Western world become so enamored by political correctness that we cannot even take a joke for what it is?
He wasn't sent to jail for the joke. If you look at the original conviction article [wired.com], he was engaging in a lot of physical stalking behavior. I have to say, if someone was following me around -- physically -- and making "jokes" about violence on the Internet, and was a known hater of my religion, I'd want his ass to be in jail, too.
Just because they're wacky scientologists doesn't mean they open game for stalkers with axes to grind (so to speak).
Re:Tom Cruise Missile (Score:5, Informative)
Re:All we need now (Score:1, Informative)
s/we are all born atheists/we are all born agnostics/
Fixed it for you
That's wrong. No child wonders about a god or gods unless the parents indoctrinate them into a cult in the first place.
But your first point was right - atheism is a religion
Funny you mention that. See my sig.
Re:Scary (Score:5, Informative)
Going by the standards that it takes to get abortion protestors arrested, there's something fishy about the case.
Re:Scientology isn't a Religion (Score:2, Informative)
What, no linkage to Operation Clambake? :) (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Here is my hope... (Score:3, Informative)
They're pretty big of illegally attacking critics too. Check Operation Freakout [wikipedia.org] where they fabricated evidence that "Paulette Cooper was guilty of issuing bomb threats against the Church, Henry Kissinger, Arab nations, and a laundromat. The seized documents were used to prosecute and convict Scientology officials in 1979."
Fabricated bomb threats... Sounds kind of familiar...Re:Scientology isn't a Religion (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Tom Cruise Missile (Score:5, Informative)
If you can arrested for this, it makes me wonder how many
Re:Tom Cruise Missile (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I don't get it? (Score:4, Informative)
He was picketing because of the death of Lisa McPherson [lisamcpherson.org]. But you know that and now so do those who choose to read the links.
Re:There have to be limits to freedom of religion (Score:5, Informative)
"religions that are clearly made up. ..."
the same cannot be said of any other religion from Christianity to Taoism to neo-paganism."
Most, if not all, religions are "made up". In some cases, we know when and by whom. Christian Science was made up by Mary Baker Eddy in 1866. Mormonism was made up by Joseph Smith in 1830. Islam was made up by Mohammed around 610. Christianity was more of a group project; most modern doctrine comes from a committee meeting [wikipedia.org] in 325. In 431, there was a another meeting for a feature upgrade [wikipedia.org], and the Virgin Mary was added.
Ecumenical Councils: the Christian Party Line (Score:5, Informative)
Allmost all Western Christian denominations, as well as Eastern Orthodox accept the decisions of councils 1-7. Catholics, protestants, all of them. That is the Christian party line. Oriental Orthodox churches only accept 1-3; Assyrian Christianity accepts 1-2; Mormonism, Jehova's Witnesses, Unitarians and a few other fringe groups don't accept any of the council's decisions.
Re:Scientology isn't a Religion (Score:4, Informative)
How many Christian sects -don't- believe in the Nicean Trinity? Think long and hard about that, because I understand that there's only -1-, they're routinely vilified along with the average 'Christian' declaring that they can't possibly be Christian because of it.
So yes, adherence to the Nicean Creed IS, in fact, pretty much used as a 'definition' to determine who is, and is not, a "real" Christian, whether you like it or not.
Re:Tom Cruise Missile (Score:2, Informative)
See United States v. Sutton, 801 F.2d 1346, 1369 (D.C. Cir. 1986) (court has discretion to require counsel seeking admission of evidence under Rule 106 "to point to specific passages of the transcript that ought to have been admitted to avert the distorting effect of the portions already introduced by the government").
Re:Scientology isn't a Religion (Score:3, Informative)
John 3:16 is far more universal than the Nicene Creed, or the concept of the Holy Trinity.
Re:There have to be limits to freedom of religion (Score:3, Informative)
-Ed
Re:Scientology and its ilk are all CULTS (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Scary (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yeah they're oppressed too (Score:4, Informative)
Unfortunately, the parent poster isn't kidding. These are the same people that scream that because the teachers in a public school aren't allowed to force students to pray that the students aren't allowed to pray (which isn't true. They can pray all they like. They just can't be forced to do it) and go "la la la I can't hear you" when they are told what I just put in parentheses.
They're also the same people that scream that, if everyone in the community isn't Christain, that it's just plain wrong and unholy. They act like the beliefs that someone else holds affects *them* on a personal level and that nobody should be able to believe differently than they do.
Sounds crazy, I know, but there are people out there like that. For some reason, a lot of them have a persecution complex because they aren't allowed to force their beliefs on everyone else. Trust me on that one - as someone who is "not a member of the fold" (I'm Taoist), I've often been on the receiving end of tirades that I am what is wrong with the world.
Some portions of them may be in the minority insofar that they think others should be exactly like them, but it's a really *really* vocal minority.
How they recruit (Score:2, Informative)
the use of a fairly old hyponosis trick called regression.
(They call it 'auditing'). See Franz Anton Mesmer
People with very serious emotional issues will often get enough relief
to be convinced that scientology is some kind of miracle and
out comes the checkbook.
Many religions, emotional 'technologies', etc, use these tricks
and very often claim they are new or groundbreaking. Nah. Same
shit different bag.
Anyone can learn to do this themselves and should avoid those who
wrap it in other packages (and there are many out there).
Not the usenet posting (Score:5, Informative)
You can read about it here [wikipedia.org].
So he was not arrested for that usenet discussion. He has been sued in civil court
for publishing Scientology documents. He defended himself and lost, to the tune
of $75,000. He then declared bankruptcy. At that time, he started repeatedly picketing
a Scientology film studio.
When he was convicted and sentenced to six months in jail (for the picketing),
he chose to flee to Canada because he believed that Scientologists would have him
killed in prison.
He applied for political asylum in Canada. After three years, Canada asked him
to appear in person to hear what the decision was. Fearing deportation, he packed up
and left Canada the night before.
So no, usenet posting, in this case, did not get him arrested.
Missing the most interesting bit of the article. (Score:4, Informative)
Two women DIE in a Scientology facility and it's not even INVESTIGATED, while the man who is trying to get prosecutors to look at the case winds up convicted.
Odd? No, it's Scientology's usual MO. If you don't think so you've NEVER done any real research on the group.
Re:hm (Score:1, Informative)
Typo (Score:1, Informative)
Should read:
He fled to Canada after being found guilty of interfering with a "religion"...
Re:Not the usenet posting (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Tom Cruise Missile (Score:1, Informative)
if you actually study the word, its clear that 'hell' is the grave. death. the lack of life. its translated (in the OT) from Sheol (which literally means 'the grave'). it is translated 30 times as 'hell' and 31 times as 'the grave', because thats what it is. those that turn their backs on the giver of life will recieve death eternal, never to live again.
being dead is quite a ways away from being tortured for eternity.
psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
isnt it funny? the athiests have been telling the "christians" this all along.
the 'immortal soul' doctrine is straight from satan himself. he wants you to believe when you die, you go someplace else. that makes it easy for him to masquerade as a deceased love one to promise you that you can continue doing evil and still have a joyous afterlife. (he posed as a snake in the garden, as the king of tyre in Ezekiel 28, and as an angel of light while temping Christ in the wilderness, and he still, to this day, assumes different forms (hebrews 13:2)
if you look at 1 corinthians 15:51-52, its clear that at the last day, the dead (some of them, at least-Thessalonians 4:16) will be resurrected-- but wait-- if the dead are already in heaven or hell, why do they climb back INTO their graves to be resurrected at the last day?
those who go around preaching hell fire are unwittingly satans tools in deception, they have been deceived, and are deceiving others to fall into a trap with them. destroyed for their lack of knowledge. let him who seeks eternal life seek it to the fullest of his heart, and the way will be shown to him.
next time someone comes preaching hellfire to your door, get them to read 1 john 2:3,4.
until they realize the blatant fact in those two verses, they are those spoken of by the Lord in Matthew 7:1-5
Re:Scary (Score:5, Informative)
Imagine an organization that has no problems lying to authorities, as a group, rehearsing their stories, etc...
I use abortion protestors as an example because they're frequently the worst behaved protestors out there and have been known to descend into violence.
In order to match them he'd have to do more than some yelling and handing out pamphlets. Even if he did follow some members home, it's still not to the level that abortion protestors will go to. Heck include PETA in that list of out of control protestors that don't get anything near this level of punishment. They've been known to set up in front of people's houses.
Scientology is NOT a religion (Score:4, Informative)
I still have the original print of the book, where L. Ron Hubbard himself clearly states that he did not consider it to be a religion, nor did he intend to allow it to become a religion. Gee, did he actually die of normal causes? Or was there some other more sinister event?
Re:Friday police (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Scientology isn't a Religion (Score:2, Informative)
Or you could be a Protestant, in which case everything you said there is wrong.
Please refrain from discussing something when you have no fucking idea what you're talking about, you'll avoid saying something stupid and wrong like you did there.
Re:Scary (Score:4, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Tom Cruise Missile (Score:3, Informative)
From what I can tell... (Score:1, Informative)
The Church of Scientology does have a long history of brutal lawsuits against individuals defaming it, and repeatedly uses copyright law to persecute people who make their religious texts publicly available. I find this baffling- any other religious group wants as many people as possible reading their books. You probably know more about your religion than I do, but I encourage you to find out more about your Church through (non-offical) sources. Look up some of the controversy about Scientology on Wikipedia.
Buddhism and War (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, militant Zen Buddhism [racematters.org] was a unifying force in WWII Japan. Much like promises of eternal reward after death helps assuage fears for believers in Judeo-Christian teachings, the beliefs in impermanence and reincarnation assuage the fears of death for Buddhists. Soto Zen has also been criticized for racial discrimination [thezensite.com] [PDF] in the treatment of the former Japanese lower caste members. You can read a long list of essays about Buddhism going wrong (particularly Japanese Buddhism) here. [thezensite.com]
Then, of course, there was the White Lotus Revolution which overthrew the Mongol Yuan dynasty and established the Ming dynasty. That was basically a Buddhist nationalist secret society. The ethnic struggles in Sri Lanka are between the Buddhist Sinhalese and the Hindu Tamils, so Buddhists aren't all innocent either.
The problem is not the religion -- it's the people that practice it.
Christian Left (Score:3, Informative)
That was the Christian Left -- the same radical religious movement that gave birth to unions, trust-busting, and women's lib in America. It was the Secular Right that fought against it mostly. The Temperance movement was very closely tied into the women's rights movement (as drunkenness was blamed for domestic abuse). It's no coincidence that the 18th & 19th Amendments were passed so closely together. It was a major part of the Progressive movement. [wikipedia.org]
It was mostly secular conservatives that opposed Prohibition in its early days. Progressivism and its related policies were very strongly tied to religious fundamentalism back in the day. The tie between fundamentalism and right-wing politics is a function of the latter half of the 21st century and fear of communism.
Henson Legal Support Fund (Score:2, Informative)
Please mod this up to make it more visible (or better yet, can it be edited into the main article, Hemos? Thanks)
Re:Scientology isn't a Religion (Score:2, Informative)
You are in for a surprise.
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/irs/jeff-irs.htm [lisamcpherson.org]
And while you're at it, acquaint yourself with Lisa McPherson.
Re:Tom Cruise Missile (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Scary (Score:3, Informative)