Ban On Louisiana Video Game Law Now Permanent 186
Carl Carlson writes "A Louisiana judge has issued a permanent injunction against a Louisiana law banning the sale of violent video games to minors. The law was crafted by video game dilettante Jack Thompson and took a slightly different approach to the issue of regulating video game sales. Rep. Roy Burrell (R) and Jack Thompson had research that purported to show a causative link between playing violent video games and real-world violence entered into the legislative record in an attempt to buttress the legislation's shaky credentials. In addition, the law adapted the Miller obscenity test to the realm of violent video games."
Woot! (Score:5, Funny)
Nobody every "wins". (Score:4, Insightful)
The moment you think you've "won", that's the moment you're most vulnerable.
Re:Nobody every "wins". (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
yeah, but the more these laws get struck down in various states, the easier it is to strike them down elsewhere because the precedent is set.
Re:Woot! (Score:5, Insightful)
Mmmmmm, ironyburger.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
What does sed has to do with EA?
Re:Woot! (Score:4, Funny)
to substitute
kind of like how EA
changes good game
companys into shitty ones
I believe... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Of course the flip side to allowing this is that you need to allow anything in an adult rated game.
People think the current American games law protects them from censorship when in fact it has the opposite affect. Fahrenheit (Indigo Propherchy) and Grand Theft Auto : San Andreas are just two of the games you can only buy in cut down form in America whereas in B
Re:Woot! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Right! This law would require that parents (or some other adult) purchase the game if they think their kid should be allowed to play it. With this law, the parents had just a little bit more control of what kind of sludge gets fed into their kid's mind. Now that control has been handed over to a minimum wage, zit-faced 18-yr old at EB Games who could not care less about you or your children.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
When I hear some politician whining about "our kids are being corrupted!", I want to ask them "how old were you when you had your first beer?".
I worry more about how deeply embedded hypocrisy is in our society.
Re: (Score:2)
And comparing video games to alcohol and tobacco is a ridiculous argument. Video games are pieces of media and lumping them together with a controlled addictive substance that is being regulated due to physical health concerns i
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Say what you will about parents being too busy, but I was raised by my Mom, who worked >40 hours a week (IT staff) my entire childhood. She also was always aware of what I was up to and took he
Re:Woot! (Score:5, Insightful)
Other media are not in a different category. Substances are. And I think most people can observe a difference between chemical ingestion and media exposure.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Those of us who value our freedom win.
Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
There is a saying which in many ways is even more relevant today. "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance", since the motto for some lawmakers or lobbyists is, "if at first you don't
Re: (Score:2)
Put down the hay-lo and pick up a real gun, son (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Firearms, Alcohol, Videogames... (Score:2)
Buh?
They could just act out their violent fantasys with the auto...mow down a bunch of Wal*Mart shoppers in the parking lot and you'll get a lesser sentence than if you used a gun or knife!
Lucky for us, that rarely happens.
A Lawyer's Title (Score:5, Funny)
Did they pull that thing out of a software licence or am I just sleep deprived?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Title Misleading (Score:3, Interesting)
They make it sound like the ban was legit.
Forget the hurricanes and flooding..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Miller obscenity test?! (Score:5, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test [wikipedia.org]
Tired... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Let's go after the really damaging stuff! (Score:4, Funny)
Accept Responsibility! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
You say it the parent's responsibility, and you are correct. Why not make the parents decide if their kids can have this game or not?
Re: (Score:2)
Personally, me and my daughter are going to be taking on parent-child teams throughout my family in no holds barred deathmatch competitions. "Great head-shot honey! Next time, try a frag-grenade, it's cooler to seem turn to jibs." I have nothing against violent games, I just don't want my daughte
Super mirrors (Score:3, Informative)
(From edge.org, http://edge.org/q2006/q06_print.html [edge.org] )
MARCO IACOBONI
Neuroscientist; Director, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation Lab, UCLA
Media Violence Induces Imitative Violence: The Problem With Super Mirrors
Media violence induces imitative violence. If true, this idea is dangerous for at least two main reasons. First, because its implications are highly relevant to the issue of freedom of speech. Second, because it suggests that our rational autonomy is much more limited than we like to think. This idea is especially dangerous now, because we have discovered a plausible neural mechanism that can explain why observing violence induces imitative violence. Moreover, the properties of this neural mechanism -- the human mirror neuron system -- suggest that imitative violence may not always be a consciously mediated process. The argument for protecting even harmful speech (intended in a broad sense, including movies and videogames) has typically been that the effects of speech are always under the mental intermediation of the listener/viewer. If there is a plausible neurobiological mechanism that suggests that such intermediate step can be by-passed, this argument is no longer valid.
For more than 50 years behavioral data have suggested that media violence induces violent behavior in the observers. Meta-data show that the effect size of media violence is much larger than the effect size of calcium intake on bone mass, or of asbestos exposure to cancer. Still, the behavioral data have been criticized. How is that possible? Two main types of data have been invoked. Controlled laboratory experiments and correlational studies assessing types of media consumed and violent behavior. The lab data have been criticized on the account of not having enough ecological validity, whereas the correlational data have been criticized on the account that they have no explanatory power. Here, as a neuroscientist who is studying the human mirror neuron system and its relations to imitation, I want to focus on a recent neuroscience discovery that may explain why the strong imitative tendencies that humans have may lead them to imitative violence when exposed to media violence.
Mirror neurons are cells located in the premotor cortex, the part of the brain relevant to the planning, selection and execution of actions. In the ventral sector of the premotor cortex there are cells that fire in relation to specific goal-related motor acts, such as grasping, holding, tearing, and bringing to the mouth. Surprisingly, a subset of these cells -- what we call mirror neurons -- also fire when we observe somebody else performing the same action. The behavior of these cells seems to suggest that the observer is looking at her/his own actions reflected by a mirror, while watching somebody else's actions. My group has also shown in several studies that human mirror neuron areas are critical to imitation. There is also evidence that the activation of this neural system is fairly automatic, thus suggesting that it may by-pass conscious mediation. Moreover, mirror neurons also code the intention associated with observed actions, even though there is not a one-to-one mapping between actions and intentions (I can grasp a cup because I want to drink or because I want to put it in the dishwasher). This suggests that this system can indeed code sequences of action (i.e., what happens after I grasp the cup), even though only one action in the sequence has been observed.
Some years ago, when we still were a very small group of neuroscientists studying mirror neurons and we were just starting investigating the role of mirror neurons in intention understanding, we discussed the possi
Re:Super mirrors (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I feel that there is some truth to the nasty media -> bad effects meme, but it effects adults too, and the type of content is far more important than rough metrics like violent scenes per hour.
My gut feeling is that verbal violence (which usually does not involve curse words) and displays of disrespect have a far greater impact on people. It's both far more prevalent and much easier to imitate/believe than physical violence. "Saved by the Bell" is quite likely to bend many teenagers' beliefs towards conformity (more rigid gender roles, more focus on social rank, etc.). "Pokemon" has bent many kids towards materialist/consumerist views. "Star Trek: The Next Generation", despite showing people die and other forms of violence, is unlikely to engender either pro-violence/pro-militarist or antisocial behavior. Even "Power Rangers" probably has fairly muted effects since it's pretty devoid of any real substance.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm always amazed at the number of people that believe violence has no effect on children. I'm not sure if this is mass ignorance or willful action to ignore what's obvious to anyone that cares to look. We had to stop our children from watching Power Rangers because our oldest would start beating the crap out of our youngest immediately after watching that show...almost every time. The preferred method o
Re: (Score:2)
Proof violent gaming doesn't make violent gamers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Proof violent gaming doesn't make violent gamer (Score:2)
Is this really a good thing? (Score:4, Insightful)
Here in Australia, kids are asked for identification when they are purchasing alcohol or cigarettes, or when they go to an MA15+ or R18+ rated movie... why not carry that over to games? If a parent is happy for a kid to have the game, then they can go and buy it for them.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In my view, "Pokemon" should get an R rating, mostly for its highly effective pro-materialist content. The trouble caused to parents, schools, and society at large far outweighs any entertainment value.
Re: (Score:2)
That's why our movie rating system is only voluntarily enforced by the theaters, not legally enforced.
We'd be perfectly content to have all stores voluntarily enforce the ratings system, but no store in the US is going to be the first mover on that issue and lose all their sales.
Re: (Score:2)
Is it just me.. (Score:2, Funny)
Anybody know if the state has to pay legal fees? (Score:2)
"Permanent" injunction (Score:3, Insightful)
Make love, not war (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this part of a military conspiracy that wants them for cannon fodder, and fears that a healthy sex drive might make children avoid the latest Republican adventures overseas?
Re: (Score:2)
Is this part of a military conspiracy that wants them for cannon fodder, and fears that a healthy sex drive might make children avoid the latest Republican adventures overseas?
I agree with you, but as a Republican, I can tell you that this is not a Republican thing. Don't be a troll and blame everything you don't like on Republi
Re: (Score:2)
Democrats == republicans. There's only one party in this country, and you're a fool if you think anything will really change after the last election.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
After everything, why bother? (Score:2)
American Academy of Pediatrics study. (Score:3, Interesting)
Cnn's Dr. Sanjay Gupta has a blog [cnn.com] entry on a new study done by the American Academy of Pediatrics which says there is a correlation between violent video games and violent behavior.
From the article:
Unfortunately the post is pretty short on details and there are no links to the study. Interesting too that Dr. Gupta'a post was referring to 'children' but the tests were done on teenagers. I don't equate teenagers with children.
Re:American Academy of Pediatrics study. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
I am not advocating legislation as a way of dealing with violent video games, but it certainly makes sense to study the effects of them a bit more so that whatever decisions we do make are based on actual data an
Just make it 18 or older (Score:2)
Re:Maybe I'm missing something... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Maybe I'm missing something... (Score:5, Interesting)
On the other hand I rejected the GTA series as soon as I saw it.
It's called being sensible, it's not hard.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Or is it something about killing Special forces officers is more noble than hookers or drug dealers?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Maybe I'm missing something... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Maybe I'm missing something... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes. Here in the United States, parents have say over their children's disposable income, and are able to veto what they spend it on. Furthermore, they can limit their children's access to the television and to the gaming system, and have to power to check to see what games their kids are playing and to take it away, or even punish the child in other ways if they're playing a game that the parent doesn't approve of.
Heehee. I'm kidding, of course. No, there's no system.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
*=Randomly reminds me of when my parents told me not to play a game called Zaxxon because
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, I know. My backspace and C-w keys are broken, so all typos are the dog's fault, not mine!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
yes, except here we call it parenting [wikipedia.org]. unfortunately, that system doesn't seem to work too well. or at least, its awfully inconvenient.
Scapegoats? (Score:5, Insightful)
People want to find a damn scapegoat for everything. First it was "Violence on TV", then there's "Heavy Metal Music"! Oh my god! Will someone please think of the children! Seriously... you can get more violence in some religious texts than on TV, or Music. Computer Games, TV, or Music don't make people want to commit violence. This was used as an excuse for Columbine.
The fact is that we can owe it to either bad parenting, or maybe a more obvious fact. Homo sapiens is a territorial, aggressive, war-like species. For all our intelligence, we still like to beat the crap out of each other. This is obvious perhaps in more individuals than others.
So stop trying to find things to blame. Making laws are not going to make us less violent.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Scapegoats? (Score:4, Funny)
-------------------
I've never heard of a TV show that actually makes rape sound like a good thing. And yes, the bible does do that.
C//
Re:Scapegoats? (Score:5, Interesting)
Firing rate? Contrary to what you may think of the typical Civil War battlefield, most soldiers did not fire their weapons. On a big field running with blood, cannons booming and everyone screaming, most soldiers would not fire a single shot. Battles would end with literally thousands upon thousands of loaded muskets on the ground. Fast forward to WWII, where we have the image of brave American soliders firing automatic weapons under terrible conditions. The nonfiring rate among infantrymen was 80-85%. Further, only 1% of airmen accounted for over 40% of all downed enemy aircraft. Most pilots did not shoot anyone down or even try to.
The Army decided to look into this. What they found out is that people generally don't want to kill anybody, and would often rather die themselves, even in battle when they are scared to death, than shoot someone. Not that the soldiers were cowards. On the contrary, the same soldiers that would not fire a shot would repeatedly take terrible risks to rescue a wounded comrad. But the Army wanted them to pull the trigger and hit something, and they figured out how. The only way someone that scared would be able to do anything in that situation is if they had been subject to operant conditioning. They would need to program the soldier's midbrain to fire the weapon, since the forebrain is no longer in use under that much stress. They began to make training as realistic as possible in terms of exposure to violence, and make the thought/action of killing part of a soldier's reflex, so that when the bullets started flying, the American soldier would respond.
It worked. During Korea the nonfiring rate among infantrymen dropped to 45%, and by Vietnam it was an amazing 5-10%, meaning that nearly every infantryman fired his weapon. The American infantryman had become a killer on the battlefield, and only later did the Army realize that fully 98% of soldiers who experience close combat and pull the trigger would be psychiatric casualties. The 2% that weren't mentally crippled are people who, outside the military, would be locked up.
The author makes an excellent study of how this sort of operant conditioning for violence exists outside the military, in movies and video games. Before you knee-jerk and say that violent video games have no impact on the children who play them hours and hours a day, and who then go watch violent movies and television on top of that, you should check out this book. It's hard to dismiss the data out of hand.
And as for religious texts such as the Bible or the Qur'an, the violence preached in them does condition people to behave violently, if these people read the words over and over and internalize them as fundamental truths. This is just what video games might be doing according to this author.
Re:Scapegoats? (Score:5, Insightful)
Video games, movies, martial arts, and the military have made me a well oiled machine and a very efficient killer, but the cold hard fact is that my psychological profile gives me a 2(50 being normal) on my violent indicator score.
It isn't possible for someone to have had a longer experience to violent first person shooters than me besides people that actually work at ID software testing the original wolfenstein.
Working in a team to efficient kill was trained in me over 2400 baud modems in Cyberstrike on GEnie.
If video games and the military make people violent why am I not violent? Why have I never hurt anyone since the 4th grade? When I was 6 I bit a kid that tried to take my ball.. When I was 9 I was attacked by 2 bullies on the bus who were 2 grades above me and I fought them off but didn't chase when they ran.. Since then I have managed to defend myself from every other engagement with another human without causing them any harm whatsoever. People that have attacked me have been injured, but its usually from breaking their fist trying to punch me in the back of the head or missing me and hitting a wall.
The Army is my job, sometimes we engage and fire on the enemy.. but it isn't like my blood is pulsing and i'm out of control. Your average football player is more psyched up and out of control than the men in my platoon. It is just a job and we are good at it, we don't go around smashing heads because we like to or even want to.. Calm and control is something the video game generation exhibit better than the generations before.
When you are calm and in control you are able to think and use your frontal lobes when faced with a possibly violent situation, you know the harm you can cause by pulling the trigger or stabbing with a knife. You know the person has families and people that care about them, untrained killers don't have time to think about this because they are under control of primitive fight or flight instincts.
I think people like Jack Thompson and their views are more responsible for violence than anything else. When someone does something violent, Mr Thompson doesn't blame them for their actions and would instead blame TV, rap, rock, video games, or even Satan or something silly. People need to be taught cause and effect and understand consequence for their actions. If you kill someone they die and you go to jail, is it worth whatever reason you wanted to kill them for.. when you THINK about it the answer is almost always no.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Violent is as violent does (Score:2)
The Army is my job, sometimes we engage and fire on the enemy.. but it isn't like my blood is pulsing and i'm out of control. [...] It is just a job and we are good at it,
That does not seem better to me.
Re: (Score:2)
If you are talking about the old testament I would agree, the new testament (christian teachings) does not preach violence, in fact the exact opposite.
Of course many horrid things have been done in the name of christianity but the same could be said about freedom or democracy.
Re: (Score:2)
Jesus never advocated killing anyone, if you wish to equate the division of the faithful and unfaithful on judgement day with a call to kill those who oppose Jesus before that day, well that I would say that is your call... but you would be wrong.
Re: (Score:2)
Don't forget comic books [wikipedia.org]!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Of course, after the amok run the media w
Re: (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:5, Informative)
Back when Australia had a war-draft, and the drinking age was 21, a number of people complained. The complaint was that young men could be asked by their country to go to a different country, and be shot at, yet when they got home, they couldn't go and have a beer with their mates. The proposition was to raise the draft age to 21, or lower the drinking age to 18.
Young men in Australia have been drinking in pubs from age 18 for a good long while now...
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Enjoy the pain, America.
Re:So... (Score:4, Funny)
Young men in Australia have been drinking in pubs from age 18 for a good long while now...
So Fosters won the war I take it?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)