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Microsoft Technology Your Rights Online

30th Anniversary of Gates' Letter to HCC 544

suso writes "30 years ago today, Bill Gates wrote the infamous Open Letter to Hobbyists about licensing of Altair BASIC to the Homebrew Computer Club. Looking back it's interesting to read this emotionally written document as it is probably Gate's first publicly written opinion about licensing software." From the letter: "The fact is, no one besides us has invested a lot of money in hobby software. We have written 6800 BASIC, and are writing 8080 APL and 6800 APL, but there is very little incentive to make this software available to hobbyists. Most directly, the thing you do is theft. What about the guys who re-sell Altair BASIC, aren't they making money on hobby software? Yes, but those who have been reported to us may lose in the end. They are the ones who give hobbyists a bad name, and should be kicked out of any club meeting they show up at."
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30th Anniversary of Gates' Letter to HCC

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  • by Glomek ( 853289 ) on Friday February 03, 2006 @09:50PM (#14639516)
    As I recall, 4k basic for the Altair was written on an Altair emulator running on a PDP-10 running TOPS-10 at Harvard, which the students were not authorized to use for commercial purposes.
  • Right back atcha! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sdfad1 ( 880883 ) on Friday February 03, 2006 @10:23PM (#14639682) Homepage Journal

    Below is a reply in the subsequent issue [digibarn.com] from the "hobbyists". Interesting to see what things was like back then -- same discussions, arguments etc. The more things change, the more things stay the same.

    Your software has helped many hobbyists, and you are to be thanked for it! However, you should not blame the hobbyists for your own inadequete marketing of it. You gave it away; none stole it from you. Now you're asking for software welfare so you can give more away. If $2/hr is all you got for your efforts, then $2/hr is what they're worth on the free market. You should either change your product or change your way of selling it, if you feel it'll bring more money. I'm sure that if I were MITS, I'd be chuckling all the way to the bank over the deal I got from you. After all, your marvelous software has allowed them to sell a computer which, without it, none would have touched, except as a frustrating novelty item.

    I congratulate you and MITS upon being major influences in the founding of the computer hobby market. It's too bad you didn't get the profit from your efforts that they did from theirs, but that's your fault, not theirs or the hobbyists. You underpriced your product.

    If you want monetary reward for your software creations, you had better stop writing code for a minute and think a little harder about your market and how are you going to sell to it. And, by the way, calling all of your potential future customers thieves is perhaps "uncool" marketing strategy!

    Man, it feels good to blaze away on the keyboard once in a while. If only I can code this fast! Any errors are solely mine of course. Please check originals for identity of poster, additional context regarding this letter, and to verify any typos.

  • by TheAncientHacker ( 222131 ) <TheAncientHacker&hotmail,com> on Friday February 03, 2006 @10:44PM (#14639757)
    Fortunately, the GPL has given us a better way to pay people for the work of creating good software: They get paid with everybody else's work.

    Really? Tell that to the janitor at Red Hat or the CEO or the sales reps. They seem to want to get paid in cash. And they've actually managed to convince you that somehow you don't deserve any of their money despite you doing the actual creative work. Yeah. Great idea.

    Funny thing is, the whole "GPL" thing was originally a way for CASH-RICH geeks to pay something back for all the millions we'd made as part of a theoretical "Gift Economy" that seemed to rely on us geeks giving gifts and the marketing weasels taking them. Odd - that part seems to be skipped a lot in discussion these days.

  • by 808140 ( 808140 ) on Friday February 03, 2006 @11:27PM (#14639895)
    I think what he means is that you aren't deprived of the fruits of your labour, in this case, the blueprints (assuming they were copied and not stolen). The other guy takes them, but you still have them. So you aren't deprived of your work.

    What you are deprived of is a monopoly on the right to benefit from the fruits of your labour. Without taking either side of the debate on this, it is important to recognize that there is nothing that naturally guarantees you this monopoly. If you amass knowledge (a feat that definitely can and often is prohibitively expensive) with an intent to capitalize on it, and someone copies that knowledge in its digital or written form with an intent to capitalize on it in the same way that you intended to (but without investing the time and money required to do the research), then you could definitely say that the person doing the copying has done something immoral -- but he has not actually deprived you of the fruits of your labour.

    He has, most likely, decreased the amount of money you'll be able to make. This I think is what the RIAA and its ilk mean when they say that you are stealing -- not the music, per se, but the profits that they would have had had you been forced to buy instead of just copy.

    Unfortunately, this argument is relatively hard to make conclusively, because you're arguing about something that hasn't happened yet and is not at all guaranteed to happen. It's like Minority Report -- is it moral to incarcerate criminals who have not yet commited a crime but that you believe are certain to?

    I think from a philosophical perspective, all of this is very interesting, and is in fact far more complex than both sides want to admit.

    Fortunately, we decided early on that copyright infringement is a crime, so there's not much guess work involved here: copying something that you did not create without a license allowing you to do so is illegal. It's not stealing, because theft deprives the owner of property, but it is still illegal.

    Everything else is just mincing words.
  • by slashdotnickname ( 882178 ) on Friday February 03, 2006 @11:34PM (#14639918)
    Interesting to see that Bill Gates hasn't changed much in 30 years! He still hates casual software piracy; the only difference is now he has much more influence...

    Difference to whom?

    Him? No, he believes in software ownership, and always has.

    You? Probably yes, because pirating software nowadays can have more negative consequences than it use too... especially because software/technology producers have more influence today.

    Personally, I find supporting open-source software much more rewarding than downloading a pirated copy of whatever. For starters, there's a lot of excellent OSS out there nowadays and participating in it, even if only as a user, helps it mature further. Plus, I believe that if someone wants you to pay for something they've created (or bought the rights too) then you must respect their wishes.

    IMO, pirated software is for chumps. If you want a particular piece of retail software, then pay for it, otherwise grow some balls and support OSS... but please don't support pirating software and OSS too, it does neither camps of opinion any good.

  • by twitter ( 104583 ) on Friday February 03, 2006 @11:34PM (#14639920) Homepage Journal
    If somebody is selling software, taking a copy of it and using it without paying for it is not cool. Taking a copy and selling copies of the copies is even less cool.

    Bill Gates would agree with you, but you might want to do as he does rather than as he says. Here's some nice reading material for you [kmfms.com]. It does not even mention the big greedy grab of macsyma, nastran and other software developed at public cost. Stealing software, on way or another, is something Bill is good at. It's a shame you should take any moral advice from someone who thinks it's OK to sue public school systems for sharing software.

    What you walk away with is very wrong. In most circumstances, you should think sharing with your friends is more important than forcing your friends give more money to Bill and Co to be able to work with non free file formats. If you want to avoid punishment for sharing, avoid non-free software. You can't share what you don't know and free software is better than non free.

    use GPL code in something and won't let people have the source code. Why is that bad? Because they are using somebody else's stuff without permission.

    It is rude and wrong, but not because you violated the will of the "owners". The greater outrage is the reason for not sharing the source code: you are trying to control your users. There's no other reason to hide source code for software you want others to use. At the very least, your added features are difficult to modify, so the user is unable to use it for their purposes. At the worst, you add DRM abuse that directly limits what the user can do with their own time and effort. Do you really think you need someone else's permission to do things with your computer? Using code from people who know better only adds insult to injury.

    Code ownership is only needed as long as people would try to steal your work to abuse others. When the last of the non free software companies that emerged thirty years ago finish sinking in red ink, and there's nothing left but free software why bother with "ownership"? Yes, you will still be able to earn a living by writing free software. It's easier when your tools and support environment is free.

    The core argument Bill Gates made 30 years ago was wrong. No one needs commercial software because users and others will indeed provide quality software and documentation. The way Bill has driven others from the field proves that non free software can only proffit by theft and draconian control.

  • by verayh ( 651039 ) on Friday February 03, 2006 @11:53PM (#14639987)
    You really have to admire and respect Stallman's stance and philosphy on this matter. People like him have gained a high regard in the computing community. I probably wouldn't have delved into computers if it wasn't for them.

    Gates, on the other hand, is generally only admired because he made so much money - his software is generally regarded as sloppy.

    Yeap, I'd love to have a ton of money, but I'd rather be in the league of Stallman and the like (though sadly, I'm not even close - sigh), as then my principles let me sleep at night.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 04, 2006 @12:12AM (#14640065)
    You'll not find any truthful supporting links as it's poorly crafted fiction. I attended Lakeside when both Bill Gates and Paul Allen were there. I was a couple of years behind Bill. Lakeside had a timeshare connection to a remote PDP machine for which the school purchased blocks of computing time in advance. Although it was not ever fully discussed, rumor at the time was that Paul and Bill inadvertently used an entire (expected) school year's worth of time in a single weekend. The amount of time was worth about $5,000 and although it caused a bit of a ruckus it was also admired by most of the students and much of the faculty (my mother was a faculty member at the time). The Allen and Gates families repaid the school and not much was thought of the affair.

    No one was kicked out. No theft was ever claimed and the time was used in an academic manner--experimentation--rather than for any commercial purpose.

    This was a couple years before the Altair Basic was written in hotel rooms near the Harvard campus.
  • by daigu ( 111684 ) on Saturday February 04, 2006 @01:02AM (#14640221) Journal
    How come your comments don't jive with the Register [theregister.co.uk], an article in the Statesman called "The Making Of The Empire" that was published in 26 February 2001, and other sources that basically say they changed log files monitoring time on the system, were caught and that they were banned from the system? Then, weeks later, a deal was struck where they could get time in exchange for documenting bugs?
  • by AHumbleOpinion ( 546848 ) on Saturday February 04, 2006 @01:22AM (#14640270) Homepage
    Yes, but Microsoft has since learnt how to use casual piracy as a marketing tool. Letting people copy their software is an investment in the future for them.

    Not really, that's more of an operating system tactic, Bill was selling BASIC at the time. The lesson Bill learned was to charge per CPU shipped, first by getting into Apple and Commodore ROMs, and eventually leading to the infamous "Microsoft tax" on PCs that leave the factory. Thank the casual pirates for that.
  • by suso ( 153703 ) * on Saturday February 04, 2006 @03:43AM (#14640635) Journal
    In my defense, the slashdot editors extended what I wrote and took out some things. Half of what appeared is not stuff that I wrote.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 04, 2006 @10:28AM (#14641446)
    I am impressed with your writing style. You set up your arguements logically and clearly. Quite a refreshing change from the normal discourse here. I do not necessarily agree with all of your points, but your views are well represented. It is a shame that it is virtually impossible to have a discussion on almost any topic any more since few people seem capable of thinking for themselves and then discussing/defending their views. It generally rapidly degenerates into name calling. I hope you continue to post here even though you will probably come under personal attacks by the mob who are unable to approach anything resembling a rational thought and therefore must attack you to sustain their value of self.
  • by geohump ( 782273 ) <geohump&gmail,com> on Saturday February 04, 2006 @12:39PM (#14641939) Journal
    Seen at:http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Legacy_Microsoft/alta ir-basic.html [linuxmafia.com]

    From rick Sat Jun 1 23:01:17 2002
    Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 23:01:17 -0700
    To: Peter Belew (peterbe@sonic.net)
    Cc: jtsmoore@pacificnet.net, SlugLug (sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu)
    Subject: Re: [SlugLUG] RevolutionOS showing
    User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27

    deleted.......

    But rather than dwell on all that, I thought I'd address this bit about Bill Gates's "Open Letter to Hobbyists",[1] which Peter Belew dragged into the discussion.

    Peter, I happen to be one of the old-timers, too, and my memory is perhaps a little better than yours. The letter was not to the Homebrew Computer Club (of which I was a member at the time), but rather to a the MITS Altair Users' Newsletter, in New Mexico. David Bunnell was then newsletter editor, and he lobbed a copy to us at the Homebrew club, among other people. Which is how we got it. (And this was in early 1976, not 1977.)

    The letter caused quite a flap. For one thing, this complaint from the General Partner of "Micro-Soft" over in Albuquerque wasn't entirely honest. The software in question had been created on a taxpayer-subsidised PDP-10 (running an 8080 emulator) at Harvard, and also there was very strong, reasonable suspicion that Gates, Allen, and Davidoff had "borrowed" from several other people's BASIC inplementations without their authors' permission.

    Also, and less relevantly, Micro-Soft was already getting a reputation for questionable business deals: If you were buying MITS dodgy boards, Micro-Soft's Altair BASIC was $150. If not, the same product was $500, which was a hell of lot in those days. Which was not a good reason to misappropriate it, although the questionable ancestry of Micro-Soft's 4kB interpreter arguably was.

    deleted.........

    [1] Readable at http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Legacy_Microsoft/open-le tter-to-hobbyists.html [linuxmafia.com], among other places.

    [2] Nitpickers have noted that the concept was not unknown in parts of the mainframe world. But it was an unwelcome surprise to microcomputerists.
  • by jdavidb ( 449077 ) * on Saturday February 04, 2006 @09:13PM (#14643830) Homepage Journal

    This is ridiculous. How can you compare data duplication to theft? It may make the original copy less valuable, but so does opening a new shoestore next to a shoestore you run. Devaluation is not theft, nor is duplication.

He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion

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