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IEEE Proposes New Class of Patents 183

cheesedog writes "The IEEE Spectrum proposes a new type of patent that wouldn't require formal examination, would cost significantly less than traditional patents, would last only 4 years from date of first commercial product, and which wouldn't carry a presumption of validity. These 'limited patents' would be attractive to innovators in the fast-moving high-tech industry that can't wait 18-24 months for patent approval, and would help improve patent quality by populating the USPTO's prior-art database more efficiently. Additional commentary on this proposal is available."
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IEEE Proposes New Class of Patents

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  • So (Score:5, Insightful)

    by garrett714 ( 841216 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:16PM (#14627265)
    I can just imagine what it will be like when a patent dispute happens. We already have enough BS patents out there clogging up the patent office that slow them down, how is this going to help any? I agree that patents need to be granted more quickly, but is giving out patents without formal examination really the answer?
  • So a 4-year patent just means you have to pay them 4 times, and then you have procured the patent for the approximage 17 years of a regular patent. Or, perhaps longer... assuming pressure from all the companies to whack this once it goes into effect, so that they can keep their patents for cheaper. Any patent system's original rules will be altered by pressure from the largest patent holders. What we need to have happen is to force accountability for patent fees, i.e. force some kind of license limit on the amount you can ream people for off of them.
  • by Enigma_Man ( 756516 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:21PM (#14627320) Homepage
    So all the people that have been submitting crap to the patent office that actually gets qualified as "valid", even if it isn't will have a field day patenting everything then? If the onus is on everybody else but the patent-holder to prove that it isn't valid, that kinda sucks.

    -Jesse
  • by torunforever ( 930672 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:22PM (#14627334)
    Novelty could be challenged at any point by someone submitting prior art and paying a small fee.

    A fee? That sounds counter-productive to encouraging prior art submissions.

  • by geekoid ( 135745 ) <dadinportland&yahoo,com> on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:22PM (#14627338) Homepage Journal
    First, while you are in patent pending, you are protected.

    Second, Patents are not expensive, paten lawyers are. You can file a patent as an individual for a few hundred dollars.

    Third, a patent is a way of saying you had it first, but there are other ways.

    Forth, This would be even more abused then the current system

  • Re:The only type (Score:5, Insightful)

    by symbolic ( 11752 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:26PM (#14627387)

    As far as software is concerned, and perhaps some other idiotic types of IP (like copyright on the "appearance" of a building in a public location), is to ELIMINATE it. Their absence is what got us where we are, but for some reason, people feel like they have to squeeze every last bit of "value" from something that is often completely intangible. The only thing it's doing is slowing things down and increasing costs. I imagine that not too long from now, the "leaders" in the US government will be scratching something, wondering why the US continues to either lag behind, or give up ground to, other countries in important areas like science and technology. The current patent system has shackled and menacled our ability to remain agile, and I fear that we will pay dearly for that over the long term.
  • by truckaxle ( 883149 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:27PM (#14627400) Homepage
    The current patent duration of 20 years was established in the prior revolution, the industrial revolution. It is way to long and benefits the major corporate holds the most. A patent in todays faster moving world should be short as is being proposed. That would reduced their importance and significance. Is an "innovative" idea like one click shopping significant enough to lock up for 20 years? I don't think so. The whole idea behing the duration is to to help an inventor recover the cost of an invention and capitalize on it. Today's entrepreneurs can recover an investment much more quickly than in the past.
  • Re:So (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fish waffle ( 179067 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:29PM (#14627418)
    We already have enough BS patents out there...

    Indeed; helping increase the volume of bad patents doesn't seem like a useful goal. The main problem with software (and other more abstract) patents is not the slow process for granting them, it's the fact that they keep granting idiotic patents that are very obvious to anyone even remotely skilled in the art. Searching and validating beforehand may be expensive, but is a lot cheaper than a court fight....at least in an overall sense.

    On the other hand, if their intention is to fuel outrage in blogs and community websites (like /.), or provide even more material for people to make fun of them, this will be a great success.
  • by TheNoxx ( 412624 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:35PM (#14627475) Homepage Journal
    Microsoft and its lackeys did tons of lobbying to get this done... just a guess. *Less* technical review for software patents? That's the worst idea I've heard in years. Most patent reviewers for IT patents are already approving the most ridiculous things... (before I get flamed, by all means, put the word "patent" into a search here for /. stories)
  • by burnin1965 ( 535071 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:44PM (#14627580) Homepage
    "would last only 4 years from date of first commercial product"

    This part I can buy, and I would go further and change the entire patent system to limit to 4 years on ALL patents from date of first commercial product. After all, the original objective of the patent system was to advance science, industry, etc. in the United States, it was not intended as a means of leeching cash from a productive industry or building monopolies. Shorter terms would force the hand of patent holders to put up or shut up.

    I would also implement stricter rules on acceptance of patents. Today we hear over and over the excuse that lame patents are accepted because the office is overworked. I've read the rules on the uspto.gov website and several of the questionable patents that have been in the news and from what I've seen every one of them should have been rejected in the first 5 minutes of reading the abstract and claims.

    The rules are simple and most patents don't pass muster. The patent office should be pushing back on those who file patents to submit applications which easily pass the initial tests:

    "The patent law specifies that the subject matter must be "useful." The term "useful" in this connection refers to the condition that the subject matter has a useful purpose and also includes operativeness, that is, a machine which will not operate to perform the intended purpose would not be called useful, and therefore would not be granted a patent.

    Interpretations of the statute by the courts have defined the limits of the field of subject matter that can be patented, thus it has been held that the laws of nature, physical phenomena, and abstract ideas are not patentable subject matter.

    A patent cannot be obtained upon a mere idea or suggestion. The patent is granted upon the new machine, manufacture, etc., as has been said, and not upon the idea or suggestion of the new machine. A complete description of the actual machine or other subject matter for which a patent is sought is required."

    http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/i ndex.html#whatpat [uspto.gov]

    And from these basic rules it becomes obvious that SOFTWARE IS NOT PATENTABLE, you use copyrights for software. And just to add to the rant, a reimplementation of a concept or idea by someone else is not infringement of a copyright. I suspect that is why we have this big mess with software patents. I also suspect that part of the problem is interference from lawyers and lawmakers who have beaten the USPTO into submission, but at some point we need to stop all this stupidity.

    burnin
  • by SeattleGameboy ( 641456 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:28PM (#14628128) Journal
    We are all impressed with his resume.

    However, that still does not change the fact that increasing the number of patents and decreasing the effective duration is a dumb idea.

    Just because it is shorter does not make thing better when the number of rediculous patents will explode.

    The problem is not necessarily that the patents are too long or even it is too expensive to obtain. The problem is that too many non-novel ideas are granted patents.

    What Professor Hollaar suggests does not address those problems at all. And that does not change no matter how well respected he is.

  • Re:So (Score:4, Insightful)

    by 'nother poster ( 700681 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:39PM (#14628248)
    Patent review processes that work. Patent reviewers that are skilled in the field of the patent being reviewed. Adjusting patent law back to the point where the patented idea must be nonobvious and nontrivial. Streamline the dispute process, for both sides of the dispute. I could go on, but it's lunch time.
  • by adrianmonk ( 890071 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:54PM (#14628395)
    A fee? That sounds counter-productive to encouraging prior art submissions.

    Actually, making someone pay a fee for prior art is an idea with some merit. But it shouldn't be the person who points out the prior art who has to pay. Instead, the person who filed for the patent should have to pay a fee to the patent office when someone points out valid prior art. After the patent office determines it really is prior art, they would take part of the fee for themselves and pay part of it as a bounty to the person who first pointed out the prior art. This would be beneficial in three ways: (1) it would create disincentive for people to try to file patents when they think there's any real chance that there is prior art out there (because of the threat of having to pay a large fee), and (2) it would create an incentive for the patent office to examine reasonable claims of prior art, and (3) it would create an incentive for others to look for prior art to submit to the patent office.

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