Barcode Scam Redux - Target's $4.99 iPod 1014
abscondment writes "Nearly a year ago, two couples were charged with scamming WalMart for nearly $1.5 Million by creating custom barcodes with reduced prices. You'd think that in the intervening months, other companies would guard against such shenanigans - but today we see that Target just caught a scammer buying iPods for $4.99! The 19 year old used BarCode Magic to create fake barcodes, buying expensive electronics suspiciously low prices. Personally, I would have gone for a less blatant discount, or refrained from visiting the same store so soon afterwards."
Class 5 felony (Score:5, Insightful)
Ouch, ... that's gonna leave a mark...
What's wrong with people? (Score:4, Insightful)
Personally, I would have been honest.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:5, Insightful)
Some people are just plain stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
Stupid Criminals (Score:2, Insightful)
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/28/04362
Re:What's wrong with people? (Score:3, Insightful)
Nice attitude, submitter (Score:5, Insightful)
Out in the real world... (Score:4, Insightful)
"I will NEVER EVER DO THIS EVER AGAIN and I am once more terribly sorry," Baldino wrote in a statement for police. "Please let me go for I am terribly sorry!!! I'm only a kid! Help me out. I just want to go home. I did this not knowing of the serious penalty that lies behind it. Please! Please! Please!"
Hey, kid...out in the real world, there are real world consequences. Your mom is not there to pick up the pieces.
Re:Haha hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:From the article: (Score:4, Insightful)
Somewhat related: this isn't a new idea, of course. The bar codes make it a little harder, but I'm sure people have been swapping price stickers on items for as long as they've existed. I used to work in retail, and we once had a customer demand that we sell him something valued at $159 but marked with a $69.99 sticker (he'd taken it off something else).
Re:cause property theft is kewl! (Score:5, Insightful)
That depends (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone else read the article as a how-to? (Score:5, Insightful)
Lord. (Score:5, Insightful)
What a spoiled little punk. He didn't know stealing was against the law? He was old enough to come up with this scam and steal, and now suddenly he's just an innocent kid?
I say they give him the chair.
No, but seriously, the attitude of this kid sickens me. Do the crime, get ready to do the time. At 19, you're a little old to be whining like an adolescent.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:3, Insightful)
Too easy to create barcodes (Score:5, Insightful)
If they took it to the extreme that you needed to have a certain font card (a nice DIMM or SIMM) to produce any barcode, it would slow folks down a whole lot. When you have to spend a hundred or two to get the font card, the price for entry will slow down the casual twit.
15 day free trial on that program. That part just cracks me up.
Re:People like him (Score:5, Insightful)
Lest there be any doubt, I agree with you completely.
It is idiots like him who give the likes of the RIAA their pull with Congress and other lawmakers.
Re:From the article: (Score:3, Insightful)
For a minute, I thought that comment was a joke, until I actually RTFA'd....
Wow. I'd expect this comment from a five year old, but not a 19 year old. Should he know the difference between right and wrong by now?
Oh well, for him. Have fun with Bubba!
"Good" Theft vs "Bad"... (Score:1, Insightful)
Society has seen a significant shift in attitude towards easy theft achieved via technological means. It would be nonsense to equate forging a barcode to steal a physical iPod with downloading an equivalent value in music/film/software. To some people however the widespread cultural acceptance of the one might make the other seem less heinous.
The guy wanted something, for whatever reason he wasn't willing to pay for it and there was some handy software that put it one click away. That's what happened to "Personally, I would have not considered committing fraud in the first place".
Re:What's wrong with people? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:5, Insightful)
One hint: 10 orders of magnitudes more than a single ipod is more than the domestic product of the world... during this whole decade.
Re:Class 5 felony (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Class 5 felony (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, are we supposed to have much sympathy for him? He is a thief after all. And he doesn't help his own case by being such a whiner:
"Baldino wrote in a statement for police. "Please let me go for I am terribly sorry!!! I'm only a kid! Help me out. I just want to go home. I am extremely sad now, and I just want to go to bed," he wrote. "Please let me sleep in my own bed tonight."
Waaaa. Sounds like a spoiled kid who was never told "no" by Mom and Dad.
Re:Normal Attitude (Score:2, Insightful)
That's what happens (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't condone fraud by any means, but it's hardly surprising scams like this work (sorta). When you pay people peanuts and demand that they shut their brains off and be good little living robots, they're not likely to notice or care what comes up when they scan an item. In fact, a fair portion of them probably give a silent little cheer if they see the store get ripped off.
Re:Haha hilarious (Score:3, Insightful)
You have to love this. You know the little prick was trying to pull tail by bragging about how brilliant he is (as if this hasn't been done for like twenty years). Now he cries like a bitch when he gets caught, and every chick he bragged to is laughing at him crying like a 13 year old girl with a skinned knee [sorry Kev].
Not so clever now, are yah bud!
The remedy is trivial... (Score:1, Insightful)
In other words, the label shouldn't convey the information "Charge this customer $X.XX", it should convey "Check for item XYZ... Return price."
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact is that a candy bar or an iPod doesn't impact them all that much. But even those add up fast. But the real damage comes from people who find a decent grift and work it well. That can add up to a serious pile of money fast -- doubly bad if their scam takes money out of the registers and into the pockets of the naughty boys.
Re:similar story (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, you'd be barking mad to make your iPods $5. That's far too noticeable. In fact, it would be best to avoid the bigger name brand items, because everyone knows about how much they are. Tons of people have iPods, and so I'd guess a fair amount of cashiers do as well. So, I guess the thieves have to buy or at least steal a product with a desirable tag--or perhaps buy and return, sans tag.
RFID is not a solution to theft. It's probably not going to slow anyone down, even. If there is money to be stolen, someone clever will figure it out, and they'll tell someone else about it, and so on. Having an intelligent chunk of meat there to reference everyone's receipt to their items... Now, that's a solution that can't be defeated so easily.
Re:Anyone else read the article as a how-to? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not sure that's a bad thing. For one, it might help convince retailers to improve their security setup so that this type of exploit is no longer valid. That would prevent a lot of loss; perhaps with more short-term expense than they would have liked.
Also, it's evolution in action: I think everything illegal should be posted on the web with instructions and links to suppliers (who may or may not be in collusion with the authorities!).
Then, when people start moving towards the dark side, at least they'd be easier to catch. (Like Santa's Little Helper, "If he runs away, he'll be easy to catch!")
Re:Anyone else read the article as a how-to? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, that's right. Because if there is even the slightest chance that information could be used in a manner that breaks a law, then it must be locked up in a deep dark hole somewhere so no one can ever find it or show it to--God forbid--the general public. The "public" will most certainly use the information as soon as possible to break every law they can think of.
Now if you'll excuse me, my printout of "Murder Methods" is ready.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Some people are just plain stupid (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm just saying the guy who stole the iPod was stupid. Both for going back to the store, and for making such a huge switch. Had he gotten a $250 Nano for $150, no one would've noticed. Or if he'd put it in with a few items. But one item? The guy is a moron.
Re:What's wrong with people? - Lack of Preschool (Score:4, Insightful)
Had I been in this kid's shoes, and I had already decided to commit this crime, here's how I would go about doing it
I'm not sure why that's not exceedingly obvious.
Re:Some people are just plain stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Any well run corporations tends to be very efficient at separating out the mediocre from the exceptional. They pick out the people that are going to be swiping groceries from those who are going to be managers and corporate reps very quickly. Doing something as brain dead as selling an iPod from 5 dollars is a pretty solid way to rightfully convince the company that you are an easily replaced peon.
If you are a foreign immigrant who has a trouble with the language or are just naturally dull, you have my utmost sympathy working for a meat grinder like Target for shit pay and shit benefits for the rest of your life. If you are a reasonable smart person who is just a lazy slacker and never bothers trying to move up, I don't think you are in any position to complain about your shit pay.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:4, Insightful)
That's not true. Violating basic ethical principles is wrong; and of course, laws ideally should embody these, but they don't always do that, and in cases where they're not - especially cases where the law is actually opposed to those principles -, it's not wrong in an ethical sense to break the law.
Not that that's the case here, of course; sticking custom bar codes on stuff in order to pay a lower price is pretty much a textbook example of fraud, I think. But I think it's worth keeping in mind that you should follow the law because it's what's right, not simply because it's "the law".
Re:Class 5 felony (Score:3, Insightful)
Forgery though almost always implies premeditation. You can't just say "It was a spur of the moment thing, I don't know why I did it and i am truly sorry". The only expression of regret you can really give in a case of forgery is "i'm sorry i got caught", which doesn't go down really well with the judge.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:1, Insightful)
You need to grow up and realize that breaking the rules/law is wrong whether or not you get caught.
The law doesn't define what is right and wrong, merely what is harmful to society (or rather, that's the way law is supposed to work, in real life it happens to be a bit more corrupt).
Breaking the law isn't intrinsically wrong, it just happens to strongly correlate. The idea that the law defines right and wrong leads to a number of bad things - unquestioning support for corrupt laws, acceptance of mindless anti-drug propaganga, and the idea that legal things aren't so bad.
Re:What's wrong with people? (Score:4, Insightful)
You may have noticed from the article that the perpetrator got caught -- something that will happen to almost everyone who habitually engages in criminal behaviour, sooner or later. In this case, the whole escapade will probably end up costing the guy thousands of pounds over the course of his life time, because his reputation is ruined and he will have a much harder time getting a decent job. So he's actually going to pay "thousands of pounds more than he would have had to", all for an iPod that he doesn't even get to keep. I think Einstein could have figured that out in advance.
Why is it that naive, idealistic comments get modded up, but harsh realistic comments get modded down?
Stupid comments get modded down. Being "harsh" and (allegedly) "realistic" does not guarantee that a comment is not also stupid.
Re:Class 5 felony (Score:2, Insightful)
If you want to be an active and vital participant in the cycle of life and death take up bowhunting. Learn how to stalk your prey. Get to know the fine art of the kill rather than relying entirely upon simple hydrostatic shock to disable the animal so you can clomp up and blow their brains out.
Re:Some people are just plain stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
Consider the influences. (Score:5, Insightful)
I would like to point out that it is the previous generation(s) who hold positions of influence in business and government routinely get away with henious crimes. (Take small sentences [businessweek.com] for destroying retirement funds for thousands of people [wikipedia.org], among other things.) We frequently see the wealthy and powerful get away with minor punishments that are effectively summed up as serving a prison sentence on a yaht in the Caribbean. Meanwhile, our society is replete with cases of minor offenses being punished beyond any reasonable severity. ($250,000 and larger fines for music swappers [techspot.com], or felony charges for young children reading passwords printed on their computers [berksmontnews.com], for example.) If I was a young person, I would be extremely confused. Does this mean that the more serious your crimes are, the less serious the consequences? Does this mean I can do whatever I want if I am affluent? Given that getting into some trouble is part of youth, this makes for a dangerous influence. There are also plenty of cases where breaking the law is not “wrong”, so we cannot treat this as an absolute either. What Rosa Parks [wikipedia.org] did was not wrong or unethical (quite the opposite), but it was most certainly against the rules.
So, you are absolutely correct that stealing is wrong, as is breaking most laws. However, I think we as a society need to do a few things (which come to mind) if we are to have any success in reducing crime. First, the punishments must fit the crime. Copying digital music should not have equal or worse consequences to stealing millions, perhaps billions from a corporation. Murder is a felony charge, not typing a password printed on the bottom of your laptop. You get the idea. Second, we must teach people how to properly evaluate laws and whether or not they are just. This is intrinsic to the continued operation of our democracy but it is hardly given any treatment. People must be able to determine which laws are reasonable insofar as the gravity of violations, and which laws must be disobeyed for the greater good. Third, we need to restore equal application under law irregardless of political, social, or economic standing. Today, the wealthy can afford good lawyers who are better versed in the law and thus finding loopholes. Meanwhile, the poor rarely have competent defense. This is very biased, and aside from being unfair and unjust, it also leads to further crime (these cycles are much more likely to be perpetuated in the lower classes).
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:3, Insightful)
$4.99 for an Ipod. $300 for a DVD, you know. Worse, I would then put a bunch of stickers on with prices that are close but not perfect. 10% off some items, 10% more on others.
Re:Old news... +ORC (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Some people are just plain stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:2, Insightful)
Wow, I sure hope that's illegal (forcing employees to pay for stolen goods)! Because if not, it should be... I'm pretty sure it is, at least here in Canada.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:3, Insightful)
-matthew
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:2, Insightful)
The golden rule: Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.
-or-
The golden rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules.
Re:Old news... +ORC (Score:3, Insightful)
Want a tip on good grocery shopping practices? Stay on the perimeter of the store the entire shopping trip and you will be able to get all the food you "need" and none of the stuff in the middle that cost a lot more.
Example, when you walk into most grocery stores, You can hug that left (or right) wall and you'll enter into produce, then on to Dairy, meat, maybe pass by floral (not necessary but always around the perimeter), and typically see a Bakery and Deli closer to the front. By going to all these spots you get almost everything you need.
Want to save money? Avoid the frozen food aisle. It has some of the highest markups on product, and most of it is very bad for you anyway. Just for shits and giggles, try this idea once. Stay on the perimeter and shop only in the departments. Then after your done, head to the middle for the few other items you may need such as some bake products, cereal and maybe some can goods (typically all within two aisles of each other as well).
A final note about codebaring, yes this is against the law and it is fruad. Everyone who partakes in this activity will only drive the cost of products upward, or the wages of the people working for the companies downward. If your stealing from any establishment you obviously care for no one and about nothing but yourself because your actions, no matter how small they seem, affect everyone else around you.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:2, Insightful)
Your "courageous manager" is lucky to have survived. If someone drags me out of my car, they will get a few
It would be kind of stupid to get killed because you dragged the wrong guy out of a window.
Re:You're right about not caring! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:3, Insightful)
Seems kinda stupid to me to kill someone because they were dragging you out of a window whatever the reason, never mind preventing a crime ... but then again I live in a country where even the cops don't carry guns so *shrug* maybe such a gross over-reaction is deemed acceptable in your part of the world...
Re:My experiences at Fry's (Score:3, Insightful)
A stoopid thief. A smarter one would just have quietly put the box back on the shelf (pretending to have made a mistake), bought a couple of unrelated cheap items, and walked... then try again a day later at a different store, being more careful with the sticker this time.
This would have the additional benefit of creating plausible deniability (just picture what happens if later on an innocent customer unwittingly picks up the box with the crooked barcode sticker...). After such episode, the shop would need to take the excuse "... but it wasn't me who put that sticker on..." more seriously.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:You're right about not caring! (Score:2, Insightful)
A discussion about ethics, when talking about large stores is about the most batshit thing I've heard today. Do you have any idea how most of them treat their suppliers?
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or would you fight?
If you did, would you use a fist? your keys? a bat? a knife?
Anything you had within reach? I'm pretty sure you would use anything in reach because I don't think you could decide as to what you would use to defend yourself between the time it took for the guy to grab you and the time your ass hit the pavement.
Not sure of your ethical standards, but once someone is actually trying to hurt me or my family I'm going to defend myself with whatever I have handy unless they identify themselves as the police or something similar. If you don't feel that way, well, fine, I guess, but I think your post has more to do with "OMFG!!!1 t3h gunz!!" than an argument on whether someone should fight back with whatever they have handy if they are pulled out their car.
*shrug* I guess.
Getting pulled out of a car is an extremely violent and aggressive action - it is inexcusable for a store employee (anyone, for that matter - except perhaps the police in the most extreme circumstances) to do this, likewise, the attacker should expect an extremely violent and aggressive response.
And if you believe that every situation that occurs between an armed person and someone else ends in a shooting, you're wrong.
While armed, I've personally been robbed once (stupid drunk jock decided to steal a toner cartridge) and have had someone try to mug me. In both cases, I had a handgun either in my hand or in a pocket, but didn't even draw it in (in the first case, the handgun was in the trunk / boot)
Sometimes letting a drunk take an $80 item or throwing a swift punch to the side of the head is all that is necessary to diffuse a situation.
Amazingly, people carrying guns don't become mindless killers that will shoot people at the slightest provocation.
Oh, and although you may be under the impression that your police officers are unarmed - this doesn't necessarily mean they don't carry. Some NZ police carry in an armpit holster, some (usually higher ranking officers) carry multiple firearms in their trunks of their cars. Heck, NZ cops (airport, etc) _have_ to carry and some cop shot a guy for attacking people with a baseball bat a few years ago, but they carry concealed to make the public feel good.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:3, Insightful)
The victim's family would have a great civil case too...
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Just a foretaste of what's on the way... (Score:2, Insightful)
No...credit cards = bad in scams like this. Retailers could potentially (and I've heard rumors that some already do) track purchases by credit card number. No personal information, not enough card information for identity theft, just a number and a looooong list of items purchased with it. When they notice a lot of missing iPods, they could conceivably check for corellation with purchase records on credit cards to try to match the pattern.
A lot of retailers now have self-check lines that accept cash. Scan and bag your own items, pay cash, walk out.Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:3, Insightful)
In a closed society where everyone is guilty, the only crime is getting caught.
In a world of thieves, the ultimate final sin is stupidity.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... (Score:3, Insightful)
If you suppose that you may find yourself one day in a situation where you (1) steal $1000 in parts and service and then (2) murder a guy who tries to detain you without hurting you in any significant way, I'd say that your lifestyle is quite extraordinary. I would be surprised that you are still free. I am sure that if you were in the customer's place, you would do exactly what he did: pay, and drive away in your new pimp car, as opposed to a boring police cruiser.
In defence of the manager I must say: I think that his action was appropriate in that situation. I will be first to agree: when some dumb fuck at the door is blocking your way without a probable cause, he deserves to be punched. First of all, because they are ALL instructed, countless times, that they are NOT to prevent customers from exiting. It is illegal, against the store policy, and just plain rude. If, on the other hand, one actually sees with his own eyes that a customer is about to drive away with $1000 worth of goodies (by that robbing everyone in the department), one is perfetly justified to conduct a citizen's arrest [wikipedia.org] -- a perfectly legal procedure, the same one that store detectives are employing. The same one that you could employ if you caught a thief in your house: you have a right to detain that person without using lethal force, and a responsibility to notify the police.