Consumer Strikes Back at Crooked Online Retailer 659
BigBadLad writes "Seems like customers are at a huge disadvantage when dealing with dishonest retailers. This is the story of a man who had a horrible experience with an online camera retailer. In short he was lied to, yelled at, and threatened to be sued if he posted the experience on his blog. He was also persuaded to sign an agreement that would allow the retailer to charge him an extra $100 if he left bad feedback."
Summary is WRONG (Score:5, Informative)
Get it right, or pay the price.
The "camera dealer"site (Score:5, Informative)
The offending camera "dealer" site is: Priceritephoto.com [priceritephoto.com]
According to an update on his blog site, he has since reported this charlatan to the New York State Attourney General's Office. Also, apperently Price Rite Photo was listed on PriceGrabber, but has since been delisted.
Re:My mom's terrible experience with these croooks (Score:5, Informative)
What's unusual about that? You have to be the most ass backward consumer to fall for any of that and not just walk the other way immediately. And if you think the above is very unusual, you've probably never done any of the following before:
+ Shopped for a camera online in a non Amazon.com style place.
+ Shopped at Best-Buy
+ Shopped at Circuit-City
+ Shopped at Office Max
+ Shopped at Staples
Common sense would tell you to do the following:
+ Cancel the order.
+ Contact VISA (or Mastercard, etc) to prevent a charge or reverse any charges.
It's just part of doing business online. It's simple and credit card companies make it a fairly painless - one page long - process.
Re:Persuaded? (Score:4, Informative)
Having read (most of) TFA, it was another dissatisfied customer -- not the author of the main article -- who signed this agreement. But yeah, that's just stupid.
Re:I did a deal with an NY store (Score:2, Informative)
More examples (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I did a deal with an NY store (Score:3, Informative)
http://www99.shopping.com/xMR-~MRD-306792 [shopping.com]
Re:I did a deal with an NY store (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller9018.html [resellerratings.com]
Re:I did a deal with an NY store (Score:2, Informative)
Besides for them, the only other company I will deal with now is Calumet Photographic. I've heard good things about Robert's in Indianapolis as well, but I've never had any dealings with them.
Re:I did a deal with an NY store (Score:3, Informative)
But one thing is for sure, you got an S70; it's probably new and it takes pictures as well as any other S70, so if you are happy saving a few bucks, I guess you're happy. If you don't believe me about the grey market deal, call Canon's customer service and try to verify your product warranty. Hope that puppy doesn't break on you (but it probably won't.. it's a decent camera)!
Anyway, it's uninformed customers like you who contribute greatly to this problem here. Even the store in the article probably made more than a handful of people extremely happy with their low prices. It's fine if you want to buy stuff like this, but to just pass it off as the greatest deal in the world without stopping to inform people of WHY the prices are so low.
If you want to buy camera equipment online, there really are some good vendors with competitive pricing. B&H Photo and Video is top notch and they will do a lot of things to help you save money such as giving you the option to buy third-party warranties instead of manufacturer's warranties (which can be both less expensive and longer term), etc.
And phone number.. (Score:5, Informative)
888-365-4300
Well Known Scam (Score:5, Informative)
1) Advertise an incredibly low price that gets people's interest.
2) Take their credit card order, telling them the item's in stock.
3) Within a couple of days, phone the customer to ask them if they want to buy the accessories pack. This usually includes most of the things that were in the box to start with - like the charger, kit lens, etc. These cost several hundred more, making the camera more expensive than it would have been via a reputable dealer.
4) If they refuse, try berating them.
5) If they still refuse, announce that the model is out of stock - even though it was confirmed in stock when they ordered.
6) Wait for them to either give in and take the terrible deal or, if they do finally cancel on you, charge a 15% restocking fee for the camera you never took off the shelf. Either way, you sit on the money from their credit card for the whole period.
It's a pretty simple rule in the camera community: If the deal's too good to be true, it is.
You can use online reputation sites but they can be rigged. The store keeps sale details and then enters their own perfect feedback for any that don't get consumed.
Personally, I limit to the following:
B&H, Adorama: Both very reputable stores. Some people have minor issues but they do genuinely work hard. You can pretty much use them as baseline prices - if it costs more, you're paying too much, if it costs less, it's likely a scam.
Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. By using major retailers, whilst you won't get a great deal initially, you can often find a 10% sale for reward card members, 5% back in vouchers on the sale (which buys memory cards etc). and so on. Be careful of open boxes here. It's not unheard of for say a Canon 20D to be bought and then a Digital Rebel to be returned in the box.
Dell - Crazy as it may sound, they do have some great deals. The trick is to use sites like DealMeIn or HotDealsClub to find out when they have a great sale on.
NewEgg - even with an employee discount from working for one of the major manufacturers, NewEgg was within $20, had free shipping, and got it to me fast - which turned out far better than getting it with my discount.
And Fax number (Score:2, Informative)
If you you wish to send them a comment via fax:
Fax: 1-888-375-6700
Or if you happen to wish to visit them in person:
PriceRitePhoto
1274 49th Street
Brooklyn, NY 11219
The advantage of social networks (Score:5, Informative)
Look around any photography forum, every time a questions like, "hey, I just saw this camera at an incredible price at this store, is this a good deal?" people always reply with "check out resellerratings.com [resellerratings.com]. How someone so technically and netsocially (for lack of a better term) savvy didn't ask around about this new store they were about to send $3k to is a mystery to me. Heck, a simple google search would've revealed problems.
There are so many tools out there to verify good sellers/companies to do business with. Why do you think B&H [bhphotovideo.com] has so much business, even though its prices aren't rock bottom? They win on service and reliability, again and again. Of course, they're not perfect, but they've never failed me, and 'horror stories' with them are few and far between - especially compared to the volume they do.
Speaking of trust systems: I've had excellent results with ebay - buying from reputable sellers. There are quite a few chinese/hong kong sellers on there with 10-50k transactions and 1-10 negative feedbacks. I don't know *any* brick and mortar stores with those kinds of numbers.
let's take down pricerite! (Score:5, Informative)
Pictures of the store in question (Score:4, Informative)
Very classy establishments, all.
http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/ [donwiss.com]
skype them! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Summary is indeed WRONG (Score:4, Informative)
"and yet another review I found on the company:"
$100 for chargebacks (Score:5, Informative)
Personally, I look at the T&C of any retailer I make a large purchase from. That's how I spotted the $100 fee for the chargeback.
Essentially, gotchas like that are a clear sign not to do business with someone. If they're that worried about chargebacks or bad feedback that they try to penalize you for either in the T&C or EULA, run far away.
Re:skype them! (Score:4, Informative)
You can use www.tpc.int [tpc.int] allows you to send faxes for free.
Buy your Camera in California! (Score:4, Informative)
Can't lose with NewEgg either if all you want is a consumer-grade digital camera. Again, in California.
Re:Well Known Scam (Score:3, Informative)
1. advertise low price to attract customers + they have a good reputation
2. see if they can obtain cameras and get a great price based on the huge number of orders
3. cancel order or suggest different camera if they can't fulfill
4. repeat
5. Profits!!!!
In fairness to Amazon I spoke to a customer representative a few times from Amazon who explained that unless they had 24 hour availibiity I could expect delays or problems sourcing the order. Something to bear in mind.
Would I order from Amazon again? Yes, although I've had some other problems in the past which puts them in the league of one of the poorer online stores.
Re:My mom's terrible experience with these croooks (Score:4, Informative)
Something to note about recording (Score:5, Informative)
Depending on the state you are in, it's not always illegal. Many states permit recording so long as one party is aware of it. So you are free to record all phonecalls you make since you are aware of it. The reason call centres warn you is to ensure there aren't any legal problems anywhere.
Check your local laws but it's allowed in a large number of states.
Re:Something to note about recording (Score:5, Informative)
Jackwhispers : Recording Phone Call laws State By State [blogspot.com]
Most dishonest businesses are ignorant of this law
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
What Resellerratings.com has to say about them (Score:5, Informative)
Customer Satisfaction
Six-Month Rating: 4.39
Average Store: 7.23
Seems like they are selling the product only if you buy overpriced accessories with them. This is very usual thing to do if you start to read the stories of customers that have bought stuff from the lowest scoring stores.
Re:Storefront Photos (Score:3, Informative)
Nothing like Amazon (Score:5, Informative)
Re:one time CC numbers (Score:3, Informative)
It also makes any of the more fantastic threats like "Im gonna post ur CC# on teh Intarweb" laughable.
Re:Even Better! (Score:2, Informative)
Stop that! (Score:1, Informative)
Yeah, it'll cost their hosting company a fortune!
What to do in such situations (Score:2, Informative)
They'll cancel the card and issue you a new one. When the crappy retailer tries to charge the old #, it's declined...lost card.
End of problem.
If they charge the card b4 you report it lost, then deny the charge. Call the CC company and dispute the charge - all you have to say is "it's an unauthorized charge". They'll reverse it pending some sort of resolution process... Then call up 2 days later and report it lost... When the shithead retailer tries to charge your card again, it's "declined...lost card"...
end of problem...
If you get some retailer threatening you on the phone with *whatever* bullshit they pull out of their ass - just say "We're done, any charges by you are considered unauthorized and will be refused. Never call this number again." and hang up. If they call back, file a complaint with the local PD for harrasment by wire (that's what it is called in IL). File complaints with the FTC, and local state attorney general's office.
If they cost you one dime, file a small claims action in YOUR state, in YOUR jurisdiction and have them served in their jurisdiction. They're not going to show up - and you win by default. You then file the judgment, and turn it over to a collection agency who can then harrass the shithead retailer... You probably won't see any $$$, but turnabout is fair play eh?
Finally: Caveat Emptor. Just because it's the Internet, doesn't mean you don't have to take care just like you would in the real world...
The call back to "verify" is *not* a red flag (Score:2, Informative)
Of course, trying to get the customer to buy something extra is a big no-no.
Re:And Fax number (Score:5, Informative)
Looks a bit, uhm, sketchy.
Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)
Re:My mom's terrible experience with these croooks (Score:5, Informative)
When buying products online, use a credit card, not a debit card. If the merchant acts in the way you described, dont argue with them. Wait a few days to see if you have been charged by them and if you have call you card issuing bank and explain the situation clearly to them and ask for them to peform a charge back on the transaction. You may need to sign and return some legal documents stating that you consider the charge to be illigitimate (this is designed to implicate folks who do this after receiving the goods without problem).
The credit card company will return the money to your card and the merchant will receive a letter from their bank informing them that the money has been removed from their account. If this happens many times on the same merchant account the merchant bank will close the account and the merchant will be unable to open another account. This will effectively put them out of business.
Issuing a charge back is a simple process (I have done it many times) and will hurt the retailer far more than shouting at them down the phone.
Re:I don't buy from NYC area sellers (Score:3, Informative)
Jewish businesses mostly, not the mob (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Even Better! (Score:1, Informative)
"This review has been temporarily inactivated whilst Pricerunner investigates its veracity. This is done when we suspect that a review does not accurately reflect the product's or the retailer's true qualities, for instance, when a review is not based on actual experience of the product or the retailer.
When a review is inactivated, Pricerunner contacts the person who has written the review and asks for more information regarding the purchase or product. After this process, if the review is considered to be valid and in line with Pricerunner's policy on reviews, then it is republished on the site. If no reply or additional information is received within 2 weeks, the review is removed completely."
Re:It's not even a "guy"... (Score:3, Informative)
Regarding B&H, not just a "possible" exception. I was recently helping my Ecuadorian friend get a pro video camera. He saw the "low price" of Pricerite, and suggested I get it there. Fortunately, I checked resellerratings.com and discovered that they're a bunch of unethical crooks before it was too late.
Ordered from B&H, and it was great. They ship exactly what you order and ship it quickly in a well-packed manner. Very professional. Not the lowest possible price, but it's definitely worth it for peace of mind.
Re:It's not even a "guy"... (Score:3, Informative)
From a customer-service standpoint, they can still be dicey. Not to put a fine point on it, but multiple friends of mine have found that you get much better service at the storefront if you look like you have a Y chromosome. It's not 100% consistant, but it happens often enough that I hesitate to send female friends there, and that translates into a more general reluctance to give them business.
Your mileage, obviously, may vary.
Re:Virtual CC Numbers = the w1n ! ! ! (Score:3, Informative)
If your bank doesn't offer it, ask them about it. Maybe they have it planned, or maybe they decided not to offer it because they didn't want to fund the back-end systems to make it work, or no one had asked for it, or whatever.
Re: better business bureau (Score:1, Informative)
Express Cameras (Score:2, Informative)
me too (Score:2, Informative)
after trying several places, i eventually spent $100 more at newegg [pcworld.com], and got exactly what i wanted almost immediately.
i suppose this is a strong argument agaist froogle which, afaik, doesn't spend nearly as many man-hours policing its sellers as the other aggregators mentioned.
Re:One time card numbers (Score:3, Informative)
A gift card is probably worse than a debit card, because there is no incentive for any company to protect you. The credit card company still wants your business, the bank might, but the gift card company has already been paid.
better explanation (Score:3, Informative)
Worst advice imaginable (Score:1, Informative)
Reporting the card stolen is going to look strange when the merchant produces all of your personal info that was recorded when the sale was made. You could even be charged with criminal charges for attempted fraud and theft.
Claiming it is an unauthorized charge is similarly stupid. The merchant will produce proof that you did initiate the deal, and agreed to a contract. Done deal. The credit card company will side with the merchant, and you're screwed.
The stupid games with "never call this number again" are pointless, and you will be ignored. They are not harassing you as they are conducting business, and have a legitimate reason to contact you.
But the really stupid thing...there is NO reason for these shenanigans! All you have to do is call the company, and ask for a chargeback. You explain the circumstances, and that you have been unable to resolve the issue with the merchant. The credit card company is required, by law, to take your side in a legitimate dispute.
By playing stupid games and lying, you can blow your chances at getting a good resolution.
Re:It's not even a "guy"... (Score:1, Informative)
1. They spam (if you ever gave them your email address you are probably getting digital printing spam from them already)
2. They overrate their used camera equipment
3. They are assholes
B&H by contrast are so good that these days if the salesman doesn't have a black waistcoat and a yarmulk I feel a little suspicious. And they also do international mail order with 0 hassles.
Re:It's not even a "guy"... (Score:4, Informative)
Actually no. They (B&H) are staffed almost entirely by Hassidic Jews, some of whom appear to have have bracingly old-world opinions about the usefulness and divine purpose of the female gender.
Re:One time card numbers (Score:4, Informative)
I checked Discover's site (the card I have) and it looks like they offer one-time numbers [discovercard.com] as a free service. They have some stupid thing that integrates with IE, but there's also a version that lists "Netscape 6.2.something" as a requirement, so that one might work for all graphical browsers that support Flash 5.0 and up.
Would gift cards be the same thing?
Gift cards are definitely not the same thing and have a few drawbacks besides. You'll have to pay for the gift card with cash or money order, few online vendors even have gift cards (stores like Target and Sears probably don't honor gift cards online), and you can never get a cash refund on a gift card.
Re:Sounds like a job for Google Base (Score:3, Informative)
The reason I say to use googlebase instead of a hosted database is that the maintenance is taken care of by google... no worries about some guy hosting the list accidentally killing it or having to take it down for lack of funds to host it... also the data is stored at google so cease and desist actions would involve them and their legal team.
Googlebase seems the pefect solution to publishing public domain datasets, with this being a great example of the kind of data that you can't really make a lot of money off of and can potentially lead to issues if hosted privately by a small entity. Essentially this would become "Google e-Retailer Service Ratings" if they wanted to do it themselves (google that is) they could create a service around this but instead they've simply created an engine that lets all of us do it together for whatever topic we want.
If it became a dense enough set of data, Google could tie this into Froogle listings as well... and online stores could link to their listing to prove they have a good rating, etc. etc. based on a completely public system, rather than one owned and operated by a interested party.