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Privacy Technology

You Need Not Be Paranoid To Fear RFID 509

An anonymous reader writes "A story at the Boston Globe covers extensive privacy abuses involving RFID." From the article: "Why is this so scary? Because so many of us pay for our purchases with credit or debit cards, which contain our names, addresses, and other sensitive information. Now imagine a store with RFID chips embedded in every product. At checkout time, the digital code in each item is associated with our credit card data. From now on, that particular pair of shoes or carton of cigarettes is associated with you. Even if you throw them away, the RFID chips will survive. Indeed, Albrecht and McIntyre learned that the phone company BellSouth Corp. had applied for a patent on a system for scanning RFID tags in trash, and using the data to study the shopping patterns of individual consumers." I think they may be going a little overboard with their stance, but it's always interesting to talk about.
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You Need Not Be Paranoid To Fear RFID

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  • Re:FUD (Score:5, Informative)

    by Zog The Undeniable ( 632031 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:12AM (#13755402)
    Er...no. The RFID tag can carry a unique code for every individual item, not the same code for every item of that type (as a barcode does). That means YOUR new shirt has a different code to all those others on the rail.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:14AM (#13755405)
    poor analogy as the RFID tag identifies a particular product and the bar code only identifies a product line.

    A RFID product could potentially always be traced back to you because of this.
  • by badfish99 ( 826052 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:22AM (#13755433)
    If you're going to use cash, beware of this [eetimes.com]
  • Re:I see a market.. (Score:1, Informative)

    by cronotk ( 896650 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:27AM (#13755448)
    A geran computer magazine (c't) has built some kind of scanner which can determine if the scanned product in the supermarket has a RFID-chip "implanted".
    AFAIK were they trying to disable the chip with that device, too, but I don't know if they succeeded with this :)
  • by maxpublic ( 450413 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:34AM (#13755466) Homepage
    My trash bin sits on my property, and the only person who has any right to step onto my property and take are the folks who work for my garbage service. So that means that anyone else who tries this is going to be looking down the barrel of a 12-gauge, trying to explain to me what they think they're doing if they want to live long enough to get charged with trespassing and hauled off by the local sheriff.

    I feel for the folks who *have* to put their bins on the curb, when they could just move them a few feet back onto their drive or lawn and make it legally impossible for anyone to touch their trash except for the garbage service. Of course, I also realize that in the current political climate some Washington hack sucking Homeland Security dick would probably pass a law making this illegal if it became common practice.

    Max
  • by manarth ( 919856 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @08:01AM (#13755563)

    http://www.rfidjournal.com/faq/23/102 [rfidjournal.com] [RFID Journal] says that:

    The Electronic Product Code (EPC) was created by the Auto-ID Center as an eventual successor to the bar code...EPC tags were designed to identify each item manufactured, as opposed to just the manufacturer and class of products, as bar codes do today.

  • by quarkscat ( 697644 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @08:19AM (#13755642)
    "Just imagine tracking every single good sold every year in just the US - that's like 1 trillion items per year. That's one insane database you're talking about."

    The whole problem with your scenario is that you are visualizing a single gargantuan database of RFID data. This is totally unworkable. Instead, think about each retail store, each manufacturer, and each service provider maintaining their own RFID datasets, and then making such data available to whichever marketing company (or government) pays the fees for access to that data. The USA government, under the aspices of the DHS and MATRIX (Poindexter's successor to TIA) the sharing of commercial databases with the governnment is already happening. That little nugget of info, plus the recent history of data collection companies like "Checkpoint" should bring images of Orwell's "1984" and "Minority Report" into proper perspective.

    The concerns about the invasion of personal privacy are not "being paranoid", and the prospect of RFID tags being nearly ubiquitous in the future is not some "Reality Distortion Field" paranoid delusion.
  • by The Monster ( 227884 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @08:23AM (#13755667) Homepage
    I see any "RFID Killer" being classified as illegal as soon as it hiss the market.
    Well, I don't have quite such a pessimistic outlook.
    Ever hear of 'paraphernalia' laws? Tommy Chong went to prison for selling pipes that could be used to smoke marijuana. This is typical of how new laws are often made: A law is passed to criminalize activity based on a correlation to an existing illegal activity as a means to make the latter easier to enforce. After some time passes, the process repeats, with a new class of behavior criminalized to make it easier to enforce the prior law.

    Soon we'll see laws against making 'precursors' to 'circumvention devices'; just you watch it happen.

  • by Red Flayer ( 890720 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @10:22AM (#13756341) Journal
    "Books and DVD's could be quickly added to my delicious library (currently I scan the barcode), I could manage the inventory in my kitchen much better (which would integrate well with recipe software) and it would be great if I could just put my wine on the racks in my cellar and not have to track it manually.

    Take off your tinfoil hat and put on your thinking cap. Let's figure out how to take advantage of a great technology and figure out how to make it safe.


    I wear my thinking cap under my tinfoil hat... how else would I keep them from controlling my best thoughts?

    Seriously, though...

    Once again, we are prepared to sell our liberty for a little bit of convenience. You can already track your wine inventory automagically, get a cheap barcode scanner. Is it too difficult to scan a bottle at the door of your cellar? Is that really worth not worrying about potential government misuse of tech?

    At what point are we going to look back and say, "If only we hadn't allowed THAT, we wouldn't be living in a Big-Brother type dystopia?"

    Every year, we get a little closer. As the need for dissent grows, the ability to control dissent grows also. Do you think there is any correlation?
  • by Rick Zeman ( 15628 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @11:29AM (#13756875)
    But (no shit) she's already releasing a sequel:

    The Spychips Threat : Why Christians Should Resist RFID and Computer Tracking

    An updated version of the authors' previous Spychips, this book explores the inherent dangers of RFID (which stands for Radio Frequency Identification and is a technology that uses tiny computer chips to track consumer items and consumers) and shows how this powerful new technology actually fits into the schema of many evangelicals' interpretation of biblical prophecy. Compiling massive amounts of research with firsthand knowledge, Spychips explains how RFID works, reveals the history and future of the mater planners' strategies to imbed these trackers on everything (from postage stamps to shoes to people themselves), and ties in these ominous new devices to current Christian thought about the coming New World Order.

    From:
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1595 550216/ref=pd_sim_b_1/104-0662104-7062340?_encodin g=UTF8&v=glance [amazon.com]
  • by Thud457 ( 234763 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @11:39AM (#13756957) Homepage Journal
    Whuuuuuhh? [prisonplanet.com]
  • Pensioner freed after FBI bungle [bbc.co.uk]

    "Derek Bond, 72, was held at Durban [South Africa] police station under FBI orders for nearly three weeks after being arrested at gunpoint while on holiday with his wife."

  • by fredklein ( 532096 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @12:30PM (#13757403)
    From ustreas.gov:

    Q: Are there any plans to remove the one-cent coin (more popularly known as the "penny") from circulation?

    A: You may be interested to know that the penny is the most widely used denomination currently in circulation and it remains profitable to make. Significantly, it is Congress that determines the denominations of coins that the Mint must produce and put into circulation. Each penny costs .81 of a cent to make, but the United States Mint collects one cent for it. The profit goes to help fund the operation of the United States Mint and to help pay the public debt. In 2000, this profit added up to about $24 million. As the United States Mint produces the coins that Congress mandates, it does not have the authority to abolish a unit of currency. If directed to do so by legislation enacted by the Congress and signed by the President, the Treasury Department would again study phasing out the penny. Because the demand exists and the Federal Reserve Banks require inventories to meet the demand, the United States Mint is committed to producing the penny.
  • by sirwired ( 27582 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @01:44PM (#13757995)
    They don't need RFID to collect anymore information than they already.

    I've seen the amount of information they collect at these POS systems. You use a credit/debit card, your card encodes your zip code, first name, last name. Your purchase is collected already by scanning the item into the register.

    Your info is then sent to the 3 credit bueraus and your infor is merged with those large databasese. If you give your email to the retailer, your email is attached to your credit report. Through those credit reports the credit bueraus then sends back your address to the retailer and all other information the retailer can afford.

    Your information is already available in catalog dealers, your internet info is available at experian online (yup experian started an internet division). How much you make and how much own is already available at experian, transunion and can't remember the last one.

    The retailer already got the information they need, RFID is just a way to track inventory, really no joke. RFID does not add any additional information that the retail/catalog industry does not already have. Oh yea, they used to be able to get large amount of info through the DMV before 9/11.

    Experian will sell your info to ANYBODY at the right price, private detective already have this ability, without license. Now the funny thing is the only person that has a hard time getting your info, is yourself! Oh yea don't get me started on the 2 files they keep, one public one that you see, and one that is hidden, that keeps every single transactions you've made in your life. the law says some items fall off the report, but the hiden one is available to anybody with money and can make your life horrible. There are no laws saying that your bank need to tell you they based their decision on this second file. So you think your report is clean, but the hidden one says otherwise. Oh yea that second one contains all your purchase habbits too.

    God where's my hat? I can't see an after market of people scanning garbage from a particular locale/district etc. The marketing drones already have this information. Retailers routinely sell their lists to each other. Catelogs company give them to each other as "gifts". Or worse TRADED like comodity. You people are not paranoid enough!


    You can take this "two-file" theory and flush it down the toilet.

    1) Do you have any idea what kind of database would be required to keep track of EVERY purchase you ever made, everywhere, and attach item data? Do you have any clue how long it would take to search such a database? Most credit card companies keep statements on file for a year, and that only covers where you purchased, and the amount.
    2) No, the banks cannot deny you credit based a file that you cannot get a hold of. This is pretty plain in the law, if you chose to actually read it, instead of spreading rumors. (See the Fair Credit Reporting Act, 15 U.S.C. 1681)
    3) Yes, your credit card company (and maybe Experian) will happily tell whoever pays them exactly where you shop. Of course, you can write them and tell them not to, but that isn't nearly newsworthy enough. They still won't know what you bought, they would have to pay the retailer themselves for that.
    4) Exactly how would Experian know how much you own? They can't possibly know what you have and what you have gotten rid of, outside of what is already available in public records. (Any schmuck can find out where you live, what real estate you own, which elections you voted in, all campaign contributions, etc. That all comes from your local government.)
    5) Considering my credit report never can even get my employer right, I doubt they have any idea how much I make.

    Yes, our privacy is pretty bad, but spreading paranoid, ignorant crap like this doesn't make things any better.

    SirWired
  • by Stripe7 ( 571267 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @03:12PM (#13758645)
    Kind of works for a while, then they embed RFID scanners into your DVD players and use it to "Protect" their content. Each time you play that DVD your "connected" DVD player authorizes your use after suitable charges are made to your CC account. Or it just refuses to play on your friend's DVD player if you loan it to them as it has already been authorized to play only on your DVD player.

An Ada exception is when a routine gets in trouble and says 'Beam me up, Scotty'.

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