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Privacy Technology

You Need Not Be Paranoid To Fear RFID 509

An anonymous reader writes "A story at the Boston Globe covers extensive privacy abuses involving RFID." From the article: "Why is this so scary? Because so many of us pay for our purchases with credit or debit cards, which contain our names, addresses, and other sensitive information. Now imagine a store with RFID chips embedded in every product. At checkout time, the digital code in each item is associated with our credit card data. From now on, that particular pair of shoes or carton of cigarettes is associated with you. Even if you throw them away, the RFID chips will survive. Indeed, Albrecht and McIntyre learned that the phone company BellSouth Corp. had applied for a patent on a system for scanning RFID tags in trash, and using the data to study the shopping patterns of individual consumers." I think they may be going a little overboard with their stance, but it's always interesting to talk about.
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You Need Not Be Paranoid To Fear RFID

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  • by raehl ( 609729 ) <raehl311@@@yahoo...com> on Monday October 10, 2005 @06:35AM (#13755301) Homepage
    Patent tin-foil garbage bags.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10, 2005 @06:36AM (#13755306)
    Except, if you want to buy something with cash, you have to carry that cash around with you, which means risking it being taken violently from you by a displaced New Orleans resident. It's quite a conundrum.
  • by laejoh ( 648921 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @06:38AM (#13755311)

    You Need Not Be Paranoid To Fear RFID...

    ...but it helps?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10, 2005 @06:39AM (#13755315)
    Don't you realise this is essential to stop terrorism????? Think of the children for a change instead of these stupid "rights" or whatever they're called.
  • by ettlz ( 639203 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @06:45AM (#13755329) Journal

    Surely this is nothing a drill*/pair of scissors/giving up smoking/strong high-frequency magnetic field couldn't solve. After all, it's your RFID chip. So destroy it!

    *You probably shouldn't try this if the chip is on a condom.

  • by Joakim A ( 313708 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @06:47AM (#13755335)
    > How do oyu microwave your brand new microwave?
    Simple, buy a new micro that fits inside your old one.

    > Will the DVD you just bought be playable or writable?
    I doubt that the micro can do either.
  • by richy freeway ( 623503 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @06:53AM (#13755359)
    but it's always interesting to talk about.

    I think you may be confusing RFID with womens beach volleyball.

  • by Zog The Undeniable ( 632031 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @06:56AM (#13755367)
    How do you microwave your brand new microwave?

    Or, as the Roman poet Juvenal might have said, Quis microwavet ipsos microwaves?

  • Condoms?!? (Score:5, Funny)

    by binaryDigit ( 557647 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @06:56AM (#13755368)
    *You probably shouldn't try this if the chip is on a condom.

    Duh, just wait until after your done with it ;)

    Actually, now that I think about it, I could see an interesting market for personal rfid scanners. You can sell it to women to take on first (or 2nd or 3rd) dates and it can scan for the product id's for condoms. That way they can catch a bit of a glimpse of what types of intentions (or hopes, or in the case of most /.'ers, dreams) their date has :)
  • by ettlz ( 639203 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:04AM (#13755377) Journal
    Duh, just wait until after your done with it ;)

    Easier said than done. Even if I could be bothered, in a post-coital daze, to get out my Black & Decker and mangle the chip, the resulting noise and mess would hose the mood something proper. And as for waiting until morning and rummaging through the bin — no way!

  • by Joakim A ( 313708 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:10AM (#13755397)
    Dressed like a bum, walking down fifth avenue transmitting RFID codes of the latest Armani and YSL apparel using the new RFID addon to my PDA.. You are so pwned! or something..
  • by Dachannien ( 617929 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:10AM (#13755399)
    Indeed, Albrecht and McIntyre learned that the phone company BellSouth Corp. had applied for a patent on a system for scanning RFID tags in trash, and using the data to study the shopping patterns of individual consumers.

    I seem to remember that, back in the day, a large portion of the information used in phone phreaking was gathered through dumpster diving for internal manuals at Ma Bell. I guess turnabout really is fair play.

  • No way! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:17AM (#13755416)
    That would infringe on my patent for tin-foil panchos!
  • by patio11 ( 857072 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:25AM (#13755443)
    >>It will take days if not weeks to prove they got the wrong person !!!>>

    Crimety, you're right! If only people would carry their name and photo on a little piece of plastic inside their wallet, with a copy of the same information backed up on a network law enforcement had access to, then we wouldn't have to wait a week to prove our identities! We could just show the card!

  • Ehh... (Score:2, Funny)

    by mkirsten ( 685241 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:25AM (#13755444) Homepage
    So here's another business idea:

    The RFID-shredder®, "Increasing the entropy since 2006"

  • Re:but... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:26AM (#13755447)
    Don't worry, you are. We monitor your paranoia level 24/7 and will inform you through our "special circuit" when we detect that your paranoia level is dropping. Plus, although its not part of our "investigation", all of us here feel you aren't wiping your bum properly.
  • by Hammer ( 14284 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:29AM (#13755457) Journal
    Can't be DMCA violation. You are making it HARDER to decrypt :-)
  • On the plus side , RFID does not involve Tom Cruise
  • by advocate_one ( 662832 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:31AM (#13755461)
    If you are really paranoid, you can test each coin for conductivity in several places using a simple home-built device {a store-bought AVO may have been rigged}

    wow... and I thought I was being paranoid...

  • by LordFnord ( 843048 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:34AM (#13755467)
    > How can one be shure that there isn't a NSA designed ship in that shoe you just bought?

    I have just cut my shoes into little pieces with a pair of scissors and a Stanley knife. I can categorically state there is no chip in there, NSA-designed or otherwise.

    BTW, does anyone know a good shoe shop? I need to buy a new pair.

  • Dating fun (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10, 2005 @07:54AM (#13755532)
    Female: Is that an RFID chip in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?
    Female removes an RFID scanner from her bag and scans man's pants.
    Female: Oh. I see.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10, 2005 @08:00AM (#13755560)
    Stick with aluminum foil, as the paranoid community has much more confidence in the anti-psychotronic properties of aluminum.
  • by gutnor ( 872759 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @08:24AM (#13755669)
    In my city (EU) we need to sort the different waste in different bags for recycling. ( You can be fined if you don't do it properly - crap is a serious matter here )

    The future will be exiting,
    1. Paper is the blue bag
    2. Glass Bottle must be brought back to the shop.
    3. cans and plastic in the Blue Bag
    4. Black bag for other waste ...
    and now, after sorting all this, think about EMP the bag.

    Total time 1 Man-day a week to manage the dirt ... if you are lucky enough to be single.
    If not and you have 2 children and a cat, you may be thinking hiring a project manager.
  • by pushf popf ( 741049 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @08:35AM (#13755741)
    Nobody has ever developed an RFID chip that's mallet-resistant,

    And if you have way too much time on your hands, you can swap them with your friends and neighbors for hours of fun and enjoyment.

  • by smose ( 877816 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @08:57AM (#13755866)
    If only people would carry their name and photo on a little piece of plastic inside their wallet...

    ...then you'd get busted for wearing a stolen jacket. Until you re-register the jacket in your own name, and pay the applicable licensing fee, you aren't allowed to wear it.

    Waiter! A tin foil hat for my friend, here. No, no, I insist. My treat.

  • by mateomiguel ( 614660 ) <.matt_the_grad. .at. .yahoo.com.> on Monday October 10, 2005 @09:34AM (#13756066)
    If only people would carry their name and photo on a little piece of plastic inside their wallet, with a copy of the same information backed up on a network law enforcement had access to, then we wouldn't have to wait a week to prove our identities! We could just show the card!
    What a GREAT idea! Don't tell any criminals though. Those bad people might try to make fake versions of these cards, and then the police might stop trusting them! Good thing no criminals read slashdot or they might profit from my extensive imagination.
  • by Ryosen ( 234440 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @09:54AM (#13756184)
    $20 in dollar coins creates a lump in your pocket and weighs you down, swinging and bumping against your leg.

    That's just great. One more lump in my pocket to feel inadequate about.
  • by CreatureComfort ( 741652 ) * on Monday October 10, 2005 @10:15AM (#13756296)

    you have 2 children and a cat,
    I thought the reason you had kids was for them to this kinda stuff. I envision a future where, as in the past large families were a benefit for getting the farm work done, large families will be a benefit to getting all the technological/recycling/etc. work done.

  • Re:Ubiquity (Score:2, Funny)

    by the bluebrain ( 443451 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @11:03AM (#13756643)
    Damn. Every time I aim for "maximum cynicism / paranoia", someone comes along and trumps me :)
  • by HungWeiLo ( 250320 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @11:57AM (#13757127)
    Imagine swapping RFID chips from various underwear vendors with your next-door neighbors.

    Hilarity ensues from these outlyers of the marketing data.
  • by dajak ( 662256 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @12:43PM (#13757501)
    1. Paper is the blue bag
    2. Glass Bottle must be brought back to the shop.
    3. cans and plastic in the Blue Bag
    4. Black bag for other waste ...
    and now, after sorting all this, think about EMP the bag.


    That's not the way! I will give an example. Proper procedure of disposing of a tea bag with embedded RFID tag:

    1. the bag and the label go in the paper container (blue in your case);
    2. the tea goes into the green container;
    3. the rope goes into the textiles container at the supermarket;
    4. the metal staple goes with scrap metal, to be taken to the municipal garbage sorting center;
    5. the rfid tag goes into the small chemical garbage container at the supermarket.

    This is assuming that separating scrap metal (?) from an RFID chip would be as difficult as separating the plastic, paper, and metal in tetrapak (which goes into the general purpose grey container, and btw happens to be a great water proof, light weight, and heat isolating building material).

    There is an even better alternative.

    Technically speaking the shops in the EU are required to take old electronics back when you buy a replacement, so you can also save up the tea bags and give them to the cashier when you buy a new box of tea bags. You can get rid of all of your garbage with RFID chips in this convenient way, and inconvenience the manufacturers at the same time without any extra effort!

    If not and you have 2 children and a cat, you may be thinking hiring a project manager.

    I do think you need to hire someone who knows what he is doing, if you don't mind me saying it.
  • by Jardine ( 398197 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @01:08PM (#13757710) Homepage
    I know you don't sit in your yard guarding your trash all day.

    Maybe you don't.
  • by thesqlizer ( 919307 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @02:14PM (#13758210) Homepage
    There's also shredding. :-\

    Though as another poster points out, what about things that are particularly large? Finding the RFID tag in a new pair of boots may be tough--to say nothing of that new bookshelf.

    The new slogan of the RFID age:
    "Some things are priceless. For everything else, there's cash."
  • by DaveJay ( 133437 ) on Monday October 10, 2005 @03:47PM (#13758904)
    There's no way to know WHEN you used a condom....

    Unless each one were individually tagged. Next morning out goes the garbage with a couple of condoms in it. But never mind that. Purchasing records show Tom Jones picking up a 10-pack of Trojans on the way home from work on Monday. Friday night he purchases another. That alone tells us a hell of a lot about Tom's sex life, even if we don't know exactly when each condom did duty.


    Even better, Tom is married, and never buys condoms -- except when he travels for business once a month. That tells us a LOT, eh? And you can already find that out if he buys with a credit card. Presumably Tom is smarter than that, but you never know. I personally always buy my extramarital-affair condoms in cash, and discard the receipt immedia-- what, honey? Oh, no, just typing on the computer, nothing speciNO DON'T LOOK WAI~=$#
  • BION (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 10, 2005 @03:57PM (#13758969)
    >> Will the DVD you just bought be playable or writable?
    >I doubt that the micro can do either.

    Believe it or not - with manufacturing costs so high these days most electrical devices are made from the same standard circuit board.

    For instance Panasonic's NN-T995SF microwave oven can be converted into their TH-42PWD7UY plasma television with just 3 resistors, some Saran Wrap, and a 60 watt light bulb.

    I can not think of a microwave that will easily play dvds, but it would have to come with a rotisserie attachment.

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