RIAA Says P2P Encourages Illegal Downloads

stlhawkeye writes "The RIAA is at it again, attacking inconvenient technology because it can be abused. They have sent another round of letters to P2P services, asking them to stop "encouraging users" to illegally distribute copyrighted material. eDonkey, LimeWire, and Kazaa are all on the RIAA's hit list, along with 2Hub, BitTorrent, WinMX and Free Peers, maker of file-swapping software BearShare. One wonders how they intend to attack BitTorrent, which can be and is used in legitimate mass distribution efforts of legal material, such as World of Warcraft patches. Are FTP and /usr/sbin/scp next?"

Limewire strictly prohibits it!

[DavidLeeRoth]

http://www.limewire.com/english/content/answerno.s html [limewire.com] How can the RIAA make such claims? Limewire will NOT let you buy their product if you have malicious intent.

Re:Limewire strictly prohibits it!

[DaHat]

Apple also puts stickers on all iPods asking you not to pirate music.

Just because a company asks you not to do something doesn't mean that are necessarily liability free which is the point that the RIAA is trying to make.

Remember, in the RIAA's world, not only would software and hardware manufacturers say "please don't pirate" they would also take active steps in order to prevent such piracy absolutely... as impossible as such a dream is, the RIAA continues to strive for it every day.

Active steps

[Mr Guy]

Like, you know, driving to your house and personally kidnapping one of your children to be donated to the "music industry", defined as "No one who actually makes music, because people who make music are idiots"

Re:Active steps

[Mr Guy]

Sorry, I just get more and more annoyed that artists are buying into the "Don't STEAL my music" when they are getting screwed by the RIAA more than they are by even professional pirates. It blows my mind that it's just a given that you can't make any money off even well performing records because of "distrobution fees" and that all the money is made off touring, when it's touring that's expensive, and distrobution and promotion can be done essentially free, if the business model was every actually looked at instead of just blindly protected.

The business model

[Infonaut]

if the business model was every actually looked at instead of just blindly protected.

I am also surprised that nobody pays more attention to this. There's an elephant in the room, and nobody wants to believe it exists. Musicians are just as much a part of the problem as the RIAA. Why? Because musicians buy into the notion that they should sign with a label, have the label pay for everything, and receive whatever the label feels fit to give them in return.

Essentially everyone (musicians, labels, consumers) has bought into the notion that the huge crapshoot that the music industry has established, wherein a small minority of music gets major backing and the rest is given limited exposure at best, is a rational marketplace. If musicians in aggregate were less interested in becoming big stars, and more interested in making music and being justly compensated for it, the labels would lose all leverage over artists. For every Madonna there are 99 acts that got signed and never made any real money, because the labels were running a company store setup. The message has been put out by Courtney Love, Janis Ian, et. al. for years now. You have to be blind and deaf not to know that this is the system.

There is no longer any need for the enormous middleman structure that sustains the music industry. Hardly anyone is satisfied with the music being generated by the big labels. There are plenty of musicians who are content to play music and have more control over how their music is distributed. When the majority of musicians accept that a business model built on bloated middlemen is not in their best interests, the rest of us will benefit as well.

Re:The business model

[Kythe]

Sounds like there's a market for a new type of recording company -- one that explicity and exclusively markets artists via p2p, iTunes, etc.

Though I think the recording industry as it stands won't survive for very long anyway, I think such a new service would hasten the fall.

Re:The business model

[billcopc]

It's impossible for an indie to get into Best Buy / HMV / Music World because of the RIAA. They control the outlets, they control the distribution, they control everything like gangs control dope.

On the other hand, local record shops are much more accessible and I'm sure they'd love to negotiate honest terms with indie bands if their stuff is worth the plastic it's pressed on.

As for the marketing aspect, how hard is it to hire a graphic/web designer ? Hell, just from playing at local venues you could sure

The Internet is definitely not a cure-all

[Infonaut]

See, the music business relies on exposure.

And I think almost everyone who cares about music would agree that the music business is deeply flawed in its current incarnation. I'm not blaming artists for the state of the industry. But if artists don't take charge of the industry and make it more artist-centric, who will? Where is the collective voice of artists? Where are the big-money artists who are not just talking about changing the industry, but actually doing something about it?

It is FUCKING DIFFIC

Re:The business model

[Irish_Samurai]

Remember we're musicians, not web designers, savy developers, marketers, etc.

But web designers, savy developers, and marketers have all either:

A) Accepted that their skill/passion will not feed them, and have gotten another job to facilitate their life.

B) Excelled in the utilization of their skill/passion to the point to where they can support themselves on money made exercising that skill/passion.

The major difference being that the musicians I know bitch that no one appreciates them - that someone needs to

Re:Active steps

[macdaddy357]

Here's a little cartoon about that. [dontbuycds.org] Niether A in RIAA stands for artists. It's the Recording Industry Association of America.

Re:Limewire strictly prohibits it!

[rez_rat]

There's a big blur obscuring the view of where liability lies in what someone does with what someone else makes.

I'm not sure anyone (RIAA definately included) could be able to pull off a convincing argument one way or another.

Better to find a way to go after abusers rather than users.

S-

Re:Limewire strictly prohibits it!

[MindStalker]

No supreme court says it has to do with intent. Apples sells music through iTunes showing their obvious profit motive in making ipods easy to use. This shows pro copywrite intent. Most P2P apps atleast untill recently stated openly that you could download copyrighted music all you want freely (and they tried to say legally too. haha) this shows the opposite intent. They are changing their tune recently though, but it doesn't nessesary absolve them.

But the USSC strictly stated that...

[plasmacutter]

you can not use the fact that the design allows infringement to require a redesign.

In other words.. they must take ACTIVE MEASURES to "induce", and those active measures must be obvious and show ACTIVE INTENT.. not some tact "don't download wink wink" intent..

so long as you don't say in your ads (post grokster, as per the ex post facto clause of our constitution) please download copyrighted music now, they have no right to demand "filtering" or whatever flavor of the month nonsenses they want developed but

Living the lie

[theonetruekeebler]

Apple also puts stickers on all iPods asking you not to pirate music.

All the sex shops here have racks and racks of exotic toys, all labeled "for novelty purposes only," because in Atlanta it's illegal to sell a dildo.

And all the head shops all sell "water pipes."

In either place, if you start asking questions about getting high or getting off, you get kicked out.

Interestingly enough, you can walk right into a gun shop and say "I need a gun to kill my husband with" and they'll still sell it to you (maybe). Okay, you have to go outside the city limits for that. I love that you have to go outside the city limits to buy a dildo or a gun, and I've seen more than one bumper sticker that says "when dildos are outlawed, only outlaws will have dildos."

Maybe if they called a gun a "hole punch" the way they call a bong a "water pipe" we could skirt this whole issue. I mean, we call it "the Internet" instead of "all the music and porno in the world for free," right?

Re:Living the lie

[Irish_Samurai]

My bro used to work at a gun shop and there is a reason why you can still purchase a weapon if a person says "I need a gun to kill my husband with".

The right to own a gun is a constitutionally protected. If you refuse to sell someone a gun for any reason other than the ones prescribed by your local, state, and federal laws - you are fucked. The gunshop will be sued into the ground, and the prosecution will win almost all of the time. You could have your license revoked, and you will probably be the target of much harrasment from gun lobbyists and fanatics.

ATL huh, I reside at 285 and Roswell Rd.

Re:Living the lie

[rworne]

Whatever happened to this little sign:

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?

You can refuse to deal with a customer because they are a jerk, they want to do something illegal and open you up to liability -- especially if you were told of their intent in the first place. The gun store in question can refuse, and if the customer makes a scene the store calls the police to handle a trespassing issue. I'm sure the customer would love to wait for the cops to explain the reason why she (or he, according to recent court decisions) was asked to leave.

You cannot refuse service based on certain other reasons that are protected, like race, sex, religion, etc.

Just wait for tomorrow's press release.

[Neil Blender]

It has something to do with the sky being blue.

In other news

[dgatwood]

Apache can be used to serve illegal downloads. Film at 11!

Re:In other news

[afidel]

Hmm, maybe we can get rid of Windows for good:

Dear RIAA,

It has recently come to my attention that a certain program with hundreds of millions of users worldwide can be used to easily distribute copyrighted content. In fact the product as shipped from the manufacturer makes it so easy that no additional work is required on the part of the end user, they simply connect their computer to the internet and within minutes it will start to deceminate any copyrighted content it contains, and is often used by others to hold content which they do not hold a valid license for. It would disturb me greatly if you did not seek to stop this insidious program after all of the recent media attention brought to your efforts to thwart the trading of copyrighted material.

Yours truely,

A concerned citizen (please think of the clidren)

p.s.
The name of the program in question is Microsoft Windows.

Re:In other news

[nine-times]

Now, in all fairness, I can see an argument being made that, although P2P technology is morally neutral, the services encourage illegal acts. It's a sticky argument, and I'm not sure I'd agree with the RIAA in any part of the "what should be done?" question, but at least I think it's a reasonable argument to make. Really, when a specific implimentation of a technology is being used overwelmingly for illegal activity, we, as a society, have a responsibility to look into the causes, and try to resolve the issue.

However, it's quite clear that Bittorrent is being used for real, legitimate data distribution. I'm not sure how common it is for a legitimate company to offer it's downloads through Kazaa or Bearshare, but certainly legitimate companies/individuals are using torrents.

um.. check the law?

[chocolatetrumpet]

Really, when a specific implimentation of a technology is being used overwelmingly for illegal activity, we, as a society, have a responsibility to look into the causes, and try to resolve the issue.

Have you considered the possibility that the law here is false?

Re:um.. check the law?

[nine-times]

Yes, I have. My point is only that, if the technology is overwhelmingly being used for purposes that are illegal, it means there is a problem. the situation needs to be evaluated, and the issue should be addressed.

How does it get addressed? Well, the first thing is to find the causes of the problem, and then remove whatever causes are appropriate. Perhaps the law is bad, the bad law is the only real "cause" here worth addressing, and resolution to the issue is to change the law. None of that goes again

Re:In other news

[Nuttles1]

I have seen this arguement on /. many times...

How about this angle... Isn't the RIAA fighting a problem of their own making. Maybe their products are over priced. Maybe if they lowered the price more people will find enough value in their music to buy it. For example, Les Schwabb is a tire store in the pacific northwest of the U.S.A. They can charge a high price for their tires and they are still swamped from opening to closing every day. They can do it because they are the best when it comes to cus

Re:In other news

[dgatwood]

Just to play devil's advocate here....

It's safe to say that most handguns are used overwhelmingly for illegal activity. Most handguns are sitting idle waiting to protect someone who will never actually be attacked. The ones that are actually being used are predominantly being used to do the attacking....

It's also safe to say that most computers are used overwhelmingly for illegal activity, since the vast majority of traffic on the internet is illegal downloads.

It's also safe to say that most automob

Re:In other news

[Irish_Samurai]

You would think they would get the hint from Head Shops that sell Bongs, pipes, scales, rolling papers, and other drug related items. These places have been operating profitably in the open for quite some time under the guise that you can use these things for loose tobacco.

So who has more money and better lawyers? The "War on Drugs" camp or the *AA's? I think if the "War on Drugs" camp can't stop a similar activity with our 3 governmental branches backing them up the RIAA is going to have a hell of a time p

P2P is often Legal ; Outweigh Options

[PhYrE2k2]

1- P2P is often used to spread legal music, software, and files. Think of how many Indie bands have files out there and are trying to make a name for themselves. Think of how many home-made car (aka: rice) videos are on there for us to see. Think of how many interviews are on P2P networks. think of how much freeware and shareware is available on these same networks. So how can you say they have 'intent'. Lets say there are 10 legal files for every illegal file- that's still pretty good. Problem is the illegal files get downloaded 10x as much, but then you still have a 50-50 network.

2- This is obviously the wrong approach. If person X doesn't get their movie from P2P, they'll join a group and get it from some private FTP site. They'll find it on the Web. They'll spread it out through direct file transfers. They'll pass it around class on CDs and DVD-Rs. They'll get it around. Hell they'll even print it off frame-by-frame and make a damn-flip-book for all I care.

The RIAA again needs to Embrace the technology. Provide an alternative. Clearly consumers (us) are saying "well it's either (a) not worth X dollars for this movie or CD, or (b) something is preventing me from getting it (DRM, whining babies at the theatre, poor quality, etc).

So solve the issue. Provide a legal download service that assures the quality and won't have a cam release on an angle and many will flock. Clearly there is a need or want here that people are fulfilling. There is something they are not meeting in traditional means. Feed that need/want and you can actually make some coin off of it.

As always though, they'll figure 5-8 people watch a movie at a time and want to charge you $50-$80 for a single movie though... which isn't quite right, in the same way that you should be saving the distribution and duplication costs in music downloads (but usually don't).

-M

Re:In other news

[dgatwood]

Which, in many jurisdictions, is illegal.

Further, prior to P2P, web sites were used. P2P evolved as ISPs got wise to the illegal content and started cutting of people's accounts. If current P2P technology gets killed, another new technology will evolve to replace it. From what we've seen so far, each generation will be easier to use and harder to track back to the offending party.

Bottom line is that these little games the RIAA is playing aren't going to stop P2P's use for illegal purposes, and they have to realize this; they aren't idiots. If this were really about stopping distribution of illegal music downloads, they would have given up long ago. It's really about preventing indy bands from being able to distribute using those mechanisms and gaining popularity. It's primarily about maintaining strict control over the music market in the hands of their members, and it is disgusting.

Now, if the RIAA weren't so myopic about controlling distribution, they might see ways to take advantage of this. If, instead of suing the P2P users, they tried to get this stuff legalized (with mandatory identification) and tracked them for statistics, it's better than Neilsen ratings when it comes to finding out what music is popular. This can be used to help target advertising towards particular groups of people, and could be very lucrative for the industry.

Heck, the industry could use this as a means to figure out what bands are going to sell. Instead of A&R reps having to take a best guess, they could just do a live recording of a band and make it available, then see how many people bite, and use that to gauge the band's potential. It would save the industry millions---if not billions---of dollars on artists that never actually went anywhere.

Unfortunately, it's hard to convince someone to change their business model in much the same way as it is hard to convince a captain to abandon a sinking ship. If the RIAA drowns, thoughu, much like P2P technologies, another will take its place.

Nah..

[Anonymous Coward]

It's computers that encourage illegal download. Ban them!

Re:Nah..

[miskatonic alumnus]

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Just kill the internet and presto: No more downloads.

Grokster Fallout

[metternich]

Now that the Supreme Court has set "active inducement" as the standard for liability, the RIAA is trying to establish a paper trail to use in subsequent trials against these services.

Re:Grokster Fallout

[Steve B]

Now that the Supreme Court has set "active inducement" as the standard for liability, the RIAA is trying to establish a paper trail to use in subsequent trials against these services.

That cuts both ways. If the activity that the RIAA accuses the recipients of doing has been established as illegal, doesn't that push the accusation itself across the line between insult and libel?

Re:Grokster Fallout

[mdielmann]

Heh, reminds me of "Liar, Liar."

"Your honor, I object!"
"On what grounds?"
"On the grounds that it's very damaging to my case."

The judge tells them they need to be able to show "active inducement", so they shout "you're encouraging illegal downloads!" for a couple months?

/usr/sbin/scp

[meabolex]

It's /usr/bin/scp, you insensitive clod!

(at least on my Gentoo box)

Re:/usr/sbin/scp

[TheRaven64]

And well it should be. /usr/sbin is for files which:

• are used primarily for administrative purposes / are daemons.
• are part of the base system (i.e. you can find them on any install of that OS)
• are not required in single user mode (i.e. you can boot without mounting the partition they are on, and still be able to recover the system)

Anyone putting it in /usr/sbin really needs to consult man hier.

OS X, FreeBSD, OpenBSD and Fedora agree with you on this one. I don't know what the submitter runs, but I hop

Next...

[WesLsoN]

Counting down the days until agents come and take the . a v and i keys off my keyboard

Re:Next...

[SPY_jmr1]

Next time you dump on people for being stupid, i'd learn to spell Kazaa right, and know the difference between Where, Were, Ware, and your intended target, We're.

You know, just FYI ;)

Hey

[PunkOfLinux]

It's not the availibility of P2P that makes me download music. It's the fact that I CANNOT find good music in ANY store around here.
MAKE Music not SHIT

Re:Hey

[hungrygrue]

Exactly! I can fire up gtk-gnutella and find damn near anything I want: Janice Joplin, any Niel Young ever, Lectures by Noam Chompsky, Dead Kenedy's, anything. Since Wallmart and Circuit city have put every real record/music store out of business, my choices would be limited to whatever they can make the most money off of - which all seems to be rap or hip-hop right now. Commercial radio isn't worth listening to at all anymore, and frankly I have more luck finding music that I want to hear at yard sales than on racks in a store.

Re:Hey

[ScentCone]

It's not the availibility of P2P that makes me download music. It's the fact that I CANNOT find good music in ANY store around here.

So... this is really about you not having a credit card? Because every recording imaginable is available to buy online.

MAKE Music not SHIT

So... it's not about what's in your stores, but about what's being made? Which is it? If you're out pirating copies of music you want because you can't buy it in your local stores, that sort of implies that there is music you want, d

Re:Hey

[goldspider]

It's a good thing that a digital copy of a song sounds so much better than one played off of a CD. Otherwise you might be branded a hypocrite.

Re:Hey

[Txiasaeia]

There was a story back on /. about Magnatune [magnatune.com] - in fact, I'm listening to it streamed right now. I've got a couple albums I'm going to buy, just want to get a few more to make it worth the shipping cost, but I'd encourage you to take a look at them. Some really fantastic indie music!

Root Cause

[rlp]

Obviously we must make TCP/IP illegal immediately!

Re:Root Cause

[DaHat]

Fool! My super l33t P2P protocol is completely UDP based! Your attempt to prevent my god given right to 'steal' other peoples music, movies and ideas has been beaten yet again!

The Next Step

[rlp]

RIAA: "We understand that your organization: DARPA is responsible for TCP/IP - software used for copyright infringement. We demand you respond to our staff attorney immediately."

DARPA: "Sure thing, what's your longitude, latitude, and elevation?"

Re:The Next Step

[YrWrstNtmr]

DARPA already knows.

it's only time

[KFowler]

Soon enough, the RIAA will start suing bands for making music that entices people to download it illegally.

The Ultimate Troll

[TommydCat]

..worthy of a headlining news story, no less..

How could you respond to something like that? Politically the cards are stacked against you with such a baiting statement, so no matter what response these companies are on the defensive.

Unlike most trolls, ignoring them might land you with a lawsuit.

At best, disgusting. At worst, corporate terrorism.

Re:The Ultimate Troll

[kevin_conaway]

Ding ding ding. You've said the magic word of the decade. Your argument now has immediate credibility, and anyone who disagrees with you is unpatriotic.

Thanks for playing!

Re:The Ultimate Troll

[AeroIllini]

Ding ding ding. You've said the magic word of the decade. Your argument now has immediate credibility, and anyone who disagrees with you is unpatriotic.

terrorism, n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

In this case, the RIAA is using force (lawsuits), or threat of force, to intimidate companies and lawmakers for their own political and financial reasons.

The word was used correctly by the grandparent post. Just because *you* can't separate an appropriate word from it's current fad status doesn't mean everyone can't.

Submitter is on crack...

[Zamboni]

The article points out:

1. "Other companies in the peer-to-peer file-swapping market include i2Hub, BitTorrent, WinMX and Free Peers, maker of file-swapping software BearShare."

2. "BearShare, WinMX and LimeWire were identified in a Wall Street Journal story as recipients of the letters."

How does this equate to threatening BitTorrent, exactly? They're threatening companies with similar models to that of Grokster. Get a grip.

In other news...

[chris_eineke]

Bread manufacturers[1] say knifes encourage murder rampages. Film at eleven.

[1] We called them bakeries back in the day...

Re:In other news...

[TheRaven64]

Of, if only it were further from reality [bbc.co.uk].

In Other News

[$RANDOMLUSER]

Georeg Bush says "War in Iraq is Suceeding".
Pope says "Abortion is Wrong".
Bill Gates says "Upgrade Now!"
Steve Jobs says new product is "Available Immediately".

Is this something new?

[hungrygrue]

How is this new? In related news, SCO is suddenly saying that the Linux kernel contains stolen code from Unix!

Re:Is this something new?

[rm69990]

LOL, Slashdot posters are on a roll today. I have never laughed at Slashdot so much in a day before :-P

Yes, and guns are responsible for wars...

[drmaxx]

... men I am so tired of this bs.

Sure...

[futurekill]

RIAA Says P2P Encourages Illegal Downloads... kinda in the same way that actually producing the music encourages people to share it...

"Are FTP and /usr/sbin/scp next?" You betcha!

[Chuqmystr]

There will also be a CD burning, all pun intended, in a town square near you. Bring all those filty OSS CD's we'll torch 'em like the hell-spawn they are!

We are also lobbying congress to allow open season on all penguins because they promote Linux which is "Open Sores" software and that promotes P2P which promote THEFT! Fello Americans! Stop your crimes against humanity! STOP THE HURTING!

Regards,
Your RIAA

Huh!? AGAIN!?

[GecKo213]

Ok, last time I installed Limewire it asked me to agree to not distribute illegal material or I couldn't use it. I've used BitTorrent to download Linux Distros. Yes that's plural, I've used it to download 5 different distros to date. I finally settled on Fedora FC4 for my laptop and it's running just fine. I think that the RIAA needs to realize where the problem is. It's not the software creators or distributors that are to blame but the end users. I guess it's harder to nab end users as we log on sometimes

and cars encourage speeding; guns - shooting; etc

[elwinc]

In a country that values freedom, occasionally encouraging illegal behavior is not a sufficient reason to make something illegal. I hear that firearms and automobiles are abused too; even employed in the commission of much more serious crimes than copyright infringement. But I don't hear the RIAA calling for bans on them.

As a practial matter, as long as the internet exists, P2P networks will exist. Get used to it folks.

Re:and cars encourage speeding; guns - shooting; e

[ScentCone]

I hear that firearms and automobiles are abused too; even employed in the commission of much more serious crimes than copyright infringement. But I don't hear the RIAA calling for bans on them.

Of course, firearm and automobile manufactrers don't encourage people to shoot innocent bystanders or drive drunk, either. In fact, they fall all overthemselves to lecture people about the appropriate use of their products.

And in this case, the RIAA is only sending letters to those entities that, like Grokster,

Grokster Doctrine

[Doc Ruby]

The context for this latest RIAA PR crusade is the Supreme Court "Grokster" decision this past Spring. The Court found that, of the P2P SW publishers which were sued, the ones which could be liable for illegal abuse of their SW by users were those publishers which "encouraged" the abuse. The Court found that Kazaa was liable, because its internal memos showed that they were expecting such abuse, and it designed external promotions consistent with that detected strategy. The other publishers, including Grokster, were not found liable, lacking that evidence of promotion.

Whether the Court was correct in finding such encouragement by Kazaa is now merely post-game quibbling. So also are arguments about whether a person can be held liable for another person jumping off a bridge just because the person told them to. The Court has ruled. So the RIAA is now portraying any P2P operator as encouraging or promoting abuse, because that's the basis for attacking them under what will now be known as the "Grokster doctrine". Any publisher, developer, designer, or user of P2P SW (or anyone else associated with it) must now invest in producing evidence that they do not promote illegal abuse. How to produce evidence of something not happening is extremely expensive and ultimately impossible.

So, as usual, only the lawyers have won, and the RIAA can do whatever it wants under these deeply flawed legal doctrines. People who just want to use the content we own, fairly, have to look elsewhere for some way to protect our rights.

Re:Grokster Doctrine

[markass530]

So does this mean that if a company makes a product where file sharing of any kind is really easy, but is very adamant (in the form of statements and such) that it is not to be used for illegal purposes, it is in the clear? Like for example how tons of pirate groups nfo's state that their release is for testing purposes only, and you should support software makers? Can software developers skirt the ruling with such tactics?

Re:Grokster Doctrine

[Doc Ruby]

As I pointed out, I don't know how to produce evidence that one did not do something like "promote illegal abuse". It should be hard for a plaintiff like the RIAA to produce evidence to the contrary when there's no evidence that one did promote illegal abuse. But they succeeded in showing evidence that Kazaa did that which which convinced the Supreme Court this Spring. Even though the evidence only seemed (to me) to demonstrate that Kazaa wanted such abuse, even needed such abuse to grow to their expectatio

Re:Wrong..

[Doc Ruby]

Well, I agree that the new standard isn't complete, as it's sent back to the 9th Circuit. And then further cases will be argued within those criteria to demonstrate which acts fall on which side of the lines that are declared. All of which will be composed mostly of lawyerly bribery, whining and trickery.

But you're off the mark in what convinced the Supremes. They decided on evidence which was already settled as established "matters of fact". The arguments before them are predicated on that evidence, centra

Re:Wrong..

[Doc Ruby]

Chief Justice Roberts will certainly find for the more corporate interests. Whichever corporate judge they replace O'Connor with will also back up the property "owner" interests, regardless of however much activist infrastructure they invent to prop it up. I expect Roberts' assurances to the Senate this week that the Supremes will produce more decisions under him will prioritize a lot of past "corporate rights" decisions for another try, if they didn't go "the right way" the last time.

I note that Rehnquist,

Re:Wrong..

[Doc Ruby]

What's frothing about calling him corporatist? And what about his record suggests he's not corporatist? For your edification I submit his record - what little of it his BushCo team is willing to release to the public, or our republic of representatives.

BTW, I'm really impressed by the rightwing consistency inventing flaws in people accused of being "on the left" that are merely your own guilty conscience. Your post is, of course, a frothing rant shilling for the right wing. I know you keep using it because

Re:Grokster Doctrine

[SpecBear]

To: RIAA
From: Concerned Citizen
CC: The Horse You Rode In On

It has come to my attention that the various companies represented by the Recording Industry of America sell, promote, and distribute music that contains material of an objectionable nature which may encourage listeners to commit various criminal acts.

I demand that you immediately cease the sale, promotion, and distribution of any and all music which could be interpreted by your audience (and audience which includes impressionable young list

In other news...

[Spy der Mann]

the RIAA's product's low quality and overinflated prices also encourage illegal downloads.

Actually, P2P doesn't really *encourage* illegal downloads. It only *facilitates* them. Which is very different. Of course, the possibility of committing an illegal act remains only a possibility, unless the motivation is strong enough to overcome the difficulties and risks. And the motivation for illegal downloads is the RIAA's fault only.

Nitpick...

[tweakt]

Are FTP and /usr/sbin/scp next?

Hmm... That's a wierd place for scp...

$ which scp
/usr/bin/scp

Re:Nitpick...

[GecKo213]

I was begining to worry about Linux because it wasn't bothering me with warnings and errors etc so I decided to just move the folder to /usr/sbin/scp and not tell any of the other programs. Mostly just to shake things up a bit. Now I feel better when things "can't be found"... Ahhh, errors, they help you know you're alive.

In Retrospect...

[GecKo213]

Is it really "RIAA Says P2P Encourages Illegal Downloads"??? What it seems to me is that the RIAA is actually encouraging more pirating by making it such a big deal!

Take for instance a study that I read not too long ago on suicide. (I've not been able to find a link and do apologize, but it was only a few months ago) It basically came down the the psychology of what drives people to suicide. It stated something to the fact that once there was a suicide by someone that was broadcast on the news, radio, or in papers that there were statistically more suicides following the dissemination of the news. The concluded after much research etc that it was the sheep mentality, where someone may be feeling really bad, depressed, or whatever and not thought of suicide until they heard about jon or jane doe last week. They decide to follow suit and committ suicide. It was an interesting article that made very good points, and again I apoloigize for not being able to locate it.

My point is that maybe the P2P networks wouldn't be such a rampant pirates playground if they would let it die quietly. Maybe take care of the largest offenders, but quit wasting so much time and effort in harrassing software creators.

Rant over.

Re:In Retrospect...

[yagu]

From your post....

Take for instance a study that I read not too long ago on suicide. (I've not been able to find a link and do apologize, but it was only a few months ago) It basically came down the the psychology of what drives people to suicide. It stated something to the fact that once there was a suicide by someone that was broadcast on the news, radio, or in papers that there were statistically more suicides following the dissemination of the news. The concluded after much research etc that it was the

Re:In Retrospect...

[xutopia]

great now I am going to pirate stuff AND kill myself. Thanks a lot!

Driving cars encourages DUIs and...

[presarioD]

glasses encourage DUIs as well, so cars and glass containers should be abolished.

Also eyes encourage spying and voyeurism (let's not go there)...ears encourage eavesdropping so they should be cut. Brains encourage thinking, thinking evil thoughts that it, so they should be Ritalined(TM).

From now on, all civilians need to file an application with the *AA's to explain in a proper and documented manner what parts of their body they need to keep and why. Same applies for all house appliances, cars, goods,

This is not a flame

[saterdaies]

To an extent, the RIAA makes a point (well, except in the case of BitTorrent). All of the others are used for piracy as their primary purpose. Go to Limewire's site and you see how it will automaticly add songs to iTunes for you.

BitTorrent is different. Of course, BitTorrent is a lot less easy to use for piracy. It can't just find files. There has to be a torrent. Yeah, there are torrent search engines, but it isn't the same level of ease.

That's the difference. The level of ease. CD burners allow pe

Re:This is not a flame

[MindStalker]

Read the article RIAA didn't threaten Bittorrent, article just mentioned bittorrent as a possible future target. Pure speculation.

Protocol vs. Service

[digitalgimpus]

People seriously need to learn how to differentiate.

HTTP, and FTP also facilitate piracy. Are they evil? Nope. P2P is no different.

It's the service that indexes and provides easy access to illegal material (software, music, child pornography) that is at fault.

Don't blame the protocol for what people do with it. There are a ton of good uses for the technology.

You can blame guns for violence... or you can blame their owners. Same with TNT. You know people's lives have been ended by radiation right? Well, lives have been saved by it too... it's all about how it's used. /wishes people would get a clue.

Beautiful technology

[__aaitqo8496]

WoW is a perfect case-in-point example of how beautifully P2P can operate.

The "I download Linux distros" argument was always a bit shaky, but Blizzard is a commercial company using a new technology and proving it's effectiveness each and every patch (every 5-6 weeks or so).

There was a fantastic commentary on the RIAA made by Scott Bradner of Network World about how media organizations (RIAA, MPAA) have always fought new technology to the bitter end, only to find out from hindsight that it actually was beneficial. On the contrary, when they try to usurp the technology, they shoot themselves in the foot.

Where would movies at home (i.e. DVD) be today without the permiation of VCRs and video casettes? I wonder if anyone at the MPAA ever goes "Whoops... Glad we never won that argument!"

Probably not.

Re:Beautiful technology

[1001011010110101]

The "I download Linux distros" argument was always a bit shaky, but Blizzard is a commercial company using a new technology and proving it's effectiveness each and every patch (every 5-6 weeks or so).

Bad example. Lol I've been playing Wow since release last year, and 90% of the patches I just waited for a kind soul to mirror them. The Blizzard downloader sucks, their bittorrent implementation is a piece of shit and totally useless. And its not a firewall problem or whatever, its just that people wont se

Re:Beautiful technology

[gsfprez]

> I wonder if anyone at the MPAA ever goes "Whoops... Glad we never won that argument!"

I aksed Jack Velenti at the airport, both of us waiting to get on a United flight, that very question.

his answer was totally amazing.

"We're not after things like DVD players, only the software that allows you to illegally copy DVDs"

while i was a little flat footed for this confrentation - two weeks of 90+ hrs per week of work, mostly at night, mostly physical labor - it did not help that he had some lady in a wheelchai

What the heck

[Jugalator]

"We demand that you immediately cease-and-desist from enabling and inducing the infringement of RIAA member sound recordings."

When did supporting/enabling downloads to any data == encouraging illegal downloads?

Funny, when DRM techs seem to encourage piracy more than anything else.
Observe their restrictions and even RIAA should understand why.

Allows them to avoid accepting any responsibility

[Kazoo the Clown]

...for their poor sales performance...

Not Buying It

[Goo.cc]

I am very anti-copyright infringment and I find some of the pro-infrigment attitude of some here on Slashdot is quite disturbing. That said, you cannot blame a P2P network for this, unless said network is actively encouraging the illegal sharing of material.

The RIAA is making a very broad statement that just doesn't jive with reality. Sadly, those is power are often too stupid to know better.

How about lowering prices?

[ericdano]

Or maybe finding better artists? Is it me or in the last 8 years or so has popular music sucked?

American Idol stars suck. I mean, there is that new chick who's doing M&M ads? WTF?

My big problem with new releases is the price. How can they keep charging $15+ a CD when I can buy 100 CDs in bulk for that much (or less!). I strictly buy my CDs used or via BMG. But BMG charges way too much for shipping. It's insane!

I can see how someone would just download it and not have to deal with it. I mean, who really cares about the latest Kayne West or Jay Z releases? They all sound like crap to me.

Wrong

[wootest]

The failure of RIAA members to adapt their offerings to the market encourages illegal downloads. People buy things when they get reasonable terms. Making fair use harder by using "copy-protected" retail CDs qualifies as not reasonable by a lot of people.

RIAA is right on this one

[jetkust]

For me, it never even crossed my mind to actually download something illegally. But then Kazaa started popping up error messages left and right encouraging me to download something illegal instead. For instance, I would be downloading public domain pdf files on world peace and energy conservation, and a message box would come pop up saying something like "Paying is for suckers!", or "RIAA don't care about YOU!".
 
I just ignored it at first, but then it started coming in the form of threats. Such as "We are now logging your personal information. And if you continue defying my requests we will kidnap your family and tie your dog to the rail road tracks with a collar made of dynamite." I even tried other file sharing programs, but they all did the same. It was just threat after threat after threat. Eventually, I had to change my identity and move to another state. Since then, i've had nightmares constantly, and am too afraid to use my computer.
 
I, for one, am excited that someone is finally standing up to these criminals. The RIAA is a great organization, one that really cares about my privacy and safety. And truely I hope they finally put an end to this conspiracy, once and for all. Because our precious freedom is at stake here.

Misleading Post

[sweetnjguy29]

The poster states that "eDonkey, LimeWire, and Kazaa are all on the RIAA's hit list, along with 2Hub, BitTorrent, WinMX and Free Peers, maker of file-swapping software BearShare." If the poster RTFA, he would have learned that 2Hub, BitTorrent, WinMX and Free Peers were NOT sent the letter. BearShare, WinMX and LimeWire were identified in a Wall Street Journal story as recipients of the letters.

Definitely not buying any more music

[tjstork]

I've not bought a song or a CD in a year. I almost caved on a Bob Dylan live track CD, but I held fast. The recording industry is not getting a dime from me. Practitioners of such heavy handed legal thuggery deserve death far more than they deserve respect.

How to thwart piracy...

[Afecks]

Piracy will never be stopped. The only way to overcome it is by making piracy less appealing. (No, not by scare tactics).

Some reasons piracy is so appealing is because it's:

1) Free
2) Convenient
3) Open

So obviously the way to thwart piracy is to:

1) Lower prices to a more reasonable amount.

If these companies are claiming such huge losses from the amount of piracy then they should find a price point that increases sales but still brings them above the level of loss that P2P is causing. Don't try to compete with a free price but do make the margin a little bit smaller.

2) Increase availability.

A lot of people just want a movie/album as soon as possible. Downloading stuff online is merely a way to accomplish this. Especially if it's something that gets leaked before it's released. I've seen people complain about a pre-order/retailer taking longer to deliver than it would have been to download it. That is pretty frustrating when you can download something for free before you can legitimately own it. Give people the option to purchase and download movies/music online at the exact same time or earlier.

3) Increase openness (yes it's a word).

The point of DRM is to stop legally purchased movies/music from becoming the source of piracy. But when has that ever been a problem? Sure it might be if legally downloading movies ever takes off. But piracy is going to happen. It's better to plan your business model around that fact instead of trying to fight it. Pirates are willing to bring cameras into movies theaters and steal silvers from DVD plants. Pirate groups are not lazy. Don't try to fight these people on their own turf.

I know some people that still download NOCD cracks and even full pirated versions of games they legally own, just because they don't want to worry about lost discs and sacrificing their CD-ROM every time they want to play a game. That strikes me as tragic, when the paying customers get worse treatment than the "criminals". So please stop ruining things for the rest of us just because of a few people.

i2hub, not 2hub

[tsunamifirestorm]

The article has the name correct. It's i2hub as in Internet2.

Meanwhile, gun manufacturers...

[jpsowin]

Meanwhile, gun manufacturers have reported receiving mail requesting them to stop encouraging people to murder others.

Re:Wow...shocking...absolutely shocking

[BarryNorton]

Post informative things, not designed bashfests.

Did you lose your way? This is Slashdot...

Re:Wow...shocking...absolutely shocking

[TheWhaleShark]

I think he's new; probably hasn't read the handbook yet.

Re:WinMX?!

[fshalor]

I actually *forgot* that winMX was a p2p tool. Saw it on a persons machine while despamifying it. He asked if I'd get it working for him, since it hadn't worked right...

I was thinking... winamp... sure... So I start. And then realize it. Ack!

I gave him itunes and then showed him the internet radio feature. He's happy for now. WinMX got deleted.

Re:WinMX?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Too late, it's on their list now.

Let's just hope they never find out that we're spreading files encoded in Slashdot moderation scores. If anyone ever starts to wonder why the scores bear no relation to the comments then we're ruined.

Re:WinMX?!

[Thuktun]

Let's just hope they never find out that we're spreading files encoded in Slashdot moderation scores.

I've always wondered (very half-heartedly) if GNAA-style trolls were encrypted communications.

Re:This is "news"?

[badasscat]

The RIAA says that P2P encourages illegal downloads? Holy crap! When did this happen?

You know, I don't even expect readers here to RTFA anymore. But is it too much to ask for you to read the freakin' summary?

C&D's were handed out to actual P2P companies. That is the news (and yes, it is news, and has been reported many other places). It's not just that the RIAA doesn't like P2P generally. It is a specific act against P2P services.

Re:I confess

[Anonymous Coward]

Please advise me whether I should burn my keyboard or sever my fingers to be compliant to your worldview.

Dear consumer,

    Yes.

Best Regards
RIAA

Re:Scape Goat?

[ScentCone]

Did you actually read the damn article? The P2P people receiving the letters (not BitTorrent, for example - though mentioned in the article as a P2P entity, they DID NOT RECEIVE THE LETTER) were chosen because, just like Grokster, their actions and message to their users deliberately supports copyright infringement, and encourages people to use their systems in order to lay hands on copyrighted material without paying the asked-for price. BitTorrent and others did not get the letter, because they're not act