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Privacy Businesses

Canada's Do-Not-Hesitate-To-Call List 592

Posted by Zonk from the not-a-good-list dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The creation of a do-not-call list in Canada has run into trouble. Michael Geist reports that the proposal has been effectively destroyed, with exceptions for just about every telemarketer including businesses, political parties, polling companies, and charities. The government committee apparently heard from the marketers but refused to listen to consumer groups."
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Canada's Do-Not-Hesitate-To-Call List More

Canada's Do-Not-Hesitate-To-Call List

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  • this gives the perfect opportunity... (Score:5, Informative)

    by tuxette ( 731067 ) * <tuxette.gmail@com> on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:33AM (#13538183) Homepage Journal
    ...to test out the anti-telemarketing counterscript [xs4all.nl] ;-)

    • Re:this gives the perfect opportunity... (Score:5, Informative)

      by millermj ( 762822 ) * on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:44AM (#13538289) Homepage
      Or this one [stopjunkcalls.com], which describes how to get the information you would need to take them to court (and earn a little cash) if they didn't put you on their do-not-call list.

    • Re:this gives the perfect opportunity... (Score:4, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 12, 2005 @12:23PM (#13538629)
      Bah, it's fun leading the telemarketer's scripts to deadends anyway. It's a simple state machine.

      TM: Hello. We are from bank XXX and we are offering a free gredit card. Blah, blah..
      Me: I'm sorry but I don't have the time for this.
      TM: You don't have to do anything.
      Me: Nothing?
      TM: Yes. A courier will bring it to your house.
      Me: And it's free?
      TM: Yes.
      Me: Well, ok then.
      TM: Ok! A courier will visit our house tomorrow at about 13:000. We will need a photocopy of our ID card and..
      Me: Wait! You said I don't have to do anything.
      TM: Well, you just have to make a photocopy.
      Me: But that means that I have to get out of my house and go do this. You told me I don't have to do anything at all. That is something.
      TM: Are you serious sir. You cannot get a photocopy of your ID card?
      Me: -almost laughing- I'm afraid not.
      TM: -very disappointed- ok then *sir*. If you can't get a photocopy of your ID...
    • with exceptions for just about every telemarketer including businesses, political parties, polling companies, and charities.
      I am not sure if any businesses are exempt in the US Don't call list, but the US list does exempt charities, political parties and polls. Then again, would a legislative body ever pass a law that restricted themselves from calling?
      • In Norway, you can register yourself to not receive calls from charities and political parties, as well as sellers. I don't see them suffering because of it. The ones who aren't doing well are not doing well because of other things than lack of teleharassing income, for example corrupt leaders who steal from the pot...

      • All that means... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by jd ( 1658 )
        ...is telemarketers have to be creative. Have the CEO stand for some election, or something, then the company can claim to be political. Or have the company sponsor a charity, so the "primary purpose" of the call becomes publicising the charity - the sales pitch is merely an extra.

  • Yes! I'm moving to Canada! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:34AM (#13538189)
    I would like to thank Canada for creating a place where a lonely person like me can go to have constant human contact via phone calls. I will now be able to live a much fuller life if I move to Canada.

  • Canada's Do-Not-Hesitate-To-/. list (Score:4, Funny)

    by jurt1235 ( 834677 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:34AM (#13538192) Homepage
    The subject says it all. It could also be a solution: /. the telemarketers

  • That's the last straw! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:35AM (#13538202)
    I'm moving to the U.S.!

  • Pre-emptive slashdotting! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Pig Hogger ( 10379 ) <pig.hogger@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:35AM (#13538203) Journal
    Now introducing pre-emptive slashdotting!

    With pre-emptive slashdotting, the target website is obliterated BEFORE any slashdotter has any chance of seeing it!

  • Not Surprising (Score:5, Interesting)

    by devphaeton ( 695736 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:35AM (#13538208)
    In the U.S., the Do Not Call Registry was about as effective as well. The bosses signed up our business phone lines and nothing has really changed. We still get on average of 20-50 solicitation calls a day.

    That doesn't sound like much, but for a small mom-n-pop ISP run by 4 guys and a dog with 2 phone lines, it's awful. Fwiw, we're all pretty good at screening calls via Caller ID.

    Good luck to our fellow Canadian brethren, whether they've disowned us or not.

    • Re:Not Surprising (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:39AM (#13538250)
      You think maybe that didn't work out because business lines are exempt?

      • Re:Not Surprising -- Mod parent up (Score:5, Informative)

        by thc69 ( 98798 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @12:01PM (#13538438) Homepage Journal
        AC is right. Business numbers can be placed on the list, but they are not enforceable.

        Also, I bet that as an ISP, you deal with companies who are affiliated with other companies, and can try to use the loophole for existing business relationships -- if they have any sort of business relationship to you, or you've ever called or contacted them, then they can market to you unless you explicitly tell them to only call you on existing business.

    • Re:Not Surprising (Score:4, Funny)

      by plover ( 150551 ) * on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:40AM (#13538253) Homepage Journal
      So what's the problem? I mean how long does it take your dog to answer the phone, anyway? I should think he could handle 30 sales calls per day, easy.

    • Re:Not Surprising (Score:5, Funny)

      by mikael ( 484 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:41AM (#13538263)
      Is that why the dog is the one with two phone lines?

      I would be extremely interested to know if cats can be trained as well. Perhaps with some catnip on the handset?

    • Re:Not Surprising (Score:5, Informative)

      by Otter ( 3800 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:41AM (#13538267) Journal
      At my home, the rate of telemarketing calls has dropped from several a day to zero, starting as soon as the registry law went into effect.

      Are you sure your business numbers are really on the list? I'd suggest resubmitting the numbers, and if the calls don't stop (20-50 a day?!?!?) file complaints and demand compensation.

    • Terribly off topic reply (Score:4, Funny)

      by avronius ( 689343 ) * on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:42AM (#13538273) Homepage Journal
      Where's the "mom" in the mom-n-pop? If it's just you 4 guys and the dog...

    • Re:Not Surprising (Score:3, Informative)

      by kwerle ( 39371 )
      You're kidding? Our phones are now silent. And I report every violation that calls in (had one yesterday for the first time in months). We used to get telemarketer calls several times a week (at least).

      I have a business line, too, and it hasn't gotten any telemarketing calls that I can remember...

    • Re:Not Surprising (Score:5, Informative)

      by Surt ( 22457 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:45AM (#13538300) Homepage Journal
      So out of curiosity, why aren't you pursuing your $500/call DNC violation penalty.

      I've not had a single telemarketing call since the DNC, and was averaging three per day before it, so for me it has been a great success.
      • Probably because the FCC doesn't allow buisness lines to sign up for the list, probably under threat of a penalty fine.

        Call this an observation from a trusted source, but I'm fairly certain that businessess who sign up on that list get transfered back on to the "do call" telemarketer lists when they compare it to the phone numbers for buisness lines bought from the telephone companies.

        • Re:Not Surprising (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Surt ( 22457 )
          That's interesting. I followed up on the FTC website. It does say in one place that it does not cover business to business calls, but does not say you can't register a business phone or that there is any penalty for doing so. I guess my assumption would be that based on that telemarketers are allowed to call anyone with a business listing, regardless of the DNC list. So DNC registration isn't penalized, just ineffective for businesses.

          The solution for a small business (such as the OP) would seem to be t

    • Re:Not Surprising (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rubycodez ( 864176 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:46AM (#13538311)
      I've found do-not-call to be *extremely* effective. Have you followed through using your rights under the law? Tell solicitor to never call you again, log the conversation, and make official complaint when they do (which is >$1,000 fine)? Do you inform them that you are on the do-not-call registry?

    • Re:Not Surprising (Score:3, Informative)

      by ect5150 ( 700619 )

      Actually, I think the list aplies to home numbers only. Read below, taken from www.donotcall.gov:

      The National Do Not Call Registry gives you a choice about whether to receive telemarketing calls at home

      Note, the "at home" portion.

      That said, I've had two number since the registry began. Both home numbers have had a decrease in the number of calls. The only place that ever called was a political campaign and the local firehouse. Both which, I believe, are legally allowed to do so. Other than that,
    • In the U.S., the Do Not Call Registry was about as effective as well. The bosses signed up our business phone lines and nothing has really changed. We still get on average of 20-50 solicitation calls a day.

      Really? It sounds like "the bosses" need to follow up. The DNC Registry has been wonderful for us. It seems that almost everybody is following the rules. Only calls from charities, politicians, existing business partners and surveys get through. The surveys started to get out of hand for a while wh

    • Fuuny it works great for me at home. I get almost no calls.

    • Re:Not Surprising (Score:5, Informative)

      by AviLazar ( 741826 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:52AM (#13538360) Journal
      Thats because Business' do not apply to the DNCR. Telemarketers can still call a business. The DNCR is there to protect personal numbers. It seems to work well for me. I only receive one telemarketing call in the past year or so and it was from a company that I purchase from in the past.

    • Re:Not Surprising (Score:2, Informative)

      by yfarren ( 159985 )
      Well, that is pretty funny.

      See, the DO NOT CALL list is only for People. Residnences, as it were. Businesses are not allowed on the Do Not Call list. Anyone, at any time, is allowed to call a business. If you look at their site (donotcall.gov) you will see it says "home or mobile phone". Not Business phone. Not sure where the rules of the registery are (I called the FTC and asked about this a couple of months ago). So well, a home phone, or cell phone should be easily registered, and if somone calls a
    • Do you have residential lines, or business lines?

      The Do-Not-Call list does not apply to 'businesses', whatever that means. Presumably, the phone company has some way of designating your lines as either business or residential.

      Vonage lines (and Packet8) all qualify as residential. Put on a Vonage line on the DNC list, and you won't get a single telemarketing call.

      The list has substantially (~90%) reduced the number of telemarketing calls I get at home.

    • Re:Not Surprising (Score:2, Informative)

      by frankie ( 91710 )
      The bosses signed up our business phone lines and nothing has really changed
      Q: Can I register my business phone number? [donotcall.gov]

      A: The National Do Not Call Registry is only for personal phone numbers. Business-to-business calls are not covered by the National Do Not Call Registry.

    • Re:Not Surprising (Score:5, Funny)

      by moviepig.com ( 745183 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @12:22PM (#13538620)
      In the U.S., the Do Not Call Registry was [as ineffective as Canada's].

      It's been quite effective for this U.S. resident. In fact, the only telemarketing calls I get nowadays are from Canada...

    • Re:Not Surprising (Score:5, Insightful)

      by wren337 ( 182018 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @12:42PM (#13538763) Homepage

      Not answering or hanging up quickly is actually the nicest thing you can do for them, short of buying what they're pitching. They are paying for employees and equipment by the minute. Assuming you're not paying by the minute for calls you receive, it's better to answer the phone and give them some plausible reason to hang on ("Oh, you want to talk to Dave! Hang on a sec"). Then set the handset down and see how long they wait. You could keep track of what bs line will keep them waiting the longest.

      • Re:Not Surprising (Score:3, Interesting)

        by kabocox ( 199019 )
        Not answering or hanging up quickly is actually the nicest thing you can do for them, short of buying what they're pitching. They are paying for employees and equipment by the minute. Assuming you're not paying by the minute for calls you receive, it's better to answer the phone and give them some plausible reason to hang on ("Oh, you want to talk to Dave! Hang on a sec"). Then set the handset down and see how long they wait. You could keep track of what bs line will keep them waiting the longest.

        So, all I

      • My Four-Year-Old (Score:4, Funny)

        by Fished ( 574624 ) <amphigory@gmail . c om> on Monday September 12, 2005 @03:06PM (#13539960)
        My 4-year-old just LOVES to talk on the phone. "Ya wanna speak to the lady of the house? SURE! I'll get her for ya!" Usually the poor schmucks hang up after about 5 minutes.

    • Interesting... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by misleb ( 129952 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @12:51PM (#13538839)
      The do-not-call-list has worked great for me. Since I signed up I have gotten zero telemarketers. Just a couple pollsters. After I got VoIP (kept my phone number), I started getting telemarketer calls again and i thought the do-not-call thing wasn't working. Then I learned that any time the service on a number is change in any way (such as going from POTS to VoIP) it gets removed from the list and you have to add it again. I added it again and the calls stopped.

      I don't really know why your business is still getting calls. Are you getting called by telemarketers or just cold calls from B2B sales people? Perhaps they are calling one of the numbers in your hunt group and not your main number? Did you add ALL your businesses numbers to the list? Most businesses will have a group of numbers with one "main" number that autoforwards to a free line in a group.

      -matthew
    • That doesn't sound like much, but for a small mom-n-pop ISP run by 4 guys and a dog with 2 phone lines, it's awful.

      Fire the dog. Trust me on this. That vicious scoundrel is signing you up for all this. Lose the dog and the problems will go away.

      Signed,
      the friendly cat association.

  • So what? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Seumas ( 6865 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:36AM (#13538213)
    Canada is a capitalist nation, just like most modern nations. Just because you live in Canada doesn't exempt you from having your "rights" and concerns over-ridden with the more important rights and concerns of revenue making, tax-paying, politician lobbying private industries.

  • Actually... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Sheetrock ( 152993 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:36AM (#13538218) Homepage Journal
    The way I think it works out now is that if you sign on to the Canadian Do-Not-Call list you will only receive calls from businesses, political parties, polling companies, and charities.
    • The way I think it works out now is that if you sign on to the Canadian Do-Not-Call list you will only receive calls from businesses, political parties, polling companies, and charities.

      Seriously though, isn't that just true of landlines in general? Has anyone received a useful call on a landline in the past few years, one where the caller would not have called your mobile if they hadn't got through?

      If the call is important, someone will pay 50p/min to call my mobile, or they'll call me on my mobile for fre
      • That's great for you, but consider the following:

        - I don't get good reception in my home, and really never have. That's never an issue on my landline.

        - My cell is small and not made for long conversations. I like that it's small so I can carry it around.

        - I live with my girlfriend, and we share the landline. We both get calls to it. Many times someone will call wanting to talk to either of us.

        - The whole "calling 911 doesn't put my address on the operation center's screens" issue.

        These are not uncommon prob

      • Re:Just don't use landlines, period. (Score:4, Informative)

        by SEE ( 7681 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @01:55PM (#13539382) Homepage
        A perfectly useful method if you, first, have a mobile, and second, live in a place that allows companies to charge half a pound a minute to call mobiles.

        Here in North America, it costs per-minute charges to recieve calls on your mobile, but costs nothing per minute to call a mobile from a landline, so calling a mobile isn't a deterrent to making a call, and it's much cheaper to take calls on a landline

        If I call someone up on their mobile from my landline and talk to them for ten straight hours, I'm charged $0.07 total, that being the per-call flat fee on my current landline plan. They get charged 600 mobile minutes. If instead they'd answered my call on their landline, the ten hours of talk would have cost them nothing and me seven cents.

  • We gave them the right to do this.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by avronius ( 689343 ) * on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:38AM (#13538242) Homepage Journal
    That's our Canadian government - always looking out for the little guys. Those much maligned mega marketers, the poorly pictured political parties and poll promulgators, the little lobbyests languishing in the face of previously proposed changes to our country's telecommunications laws.

    What ever were we thinking in our attempts to wrest the right to remain "unlisted" and "untapped"?
    How dare we expect to have the right to not be disturbed in the midst of our daily ablutions by the ring-ring-ringing of the telephone?

    I am (almost) at a loss for words, but I'm certain that if I wait a bit, someone new will call me and try to sell me their own.

    Sadly it appears that my government is no longer similar to the American's "of the people, by the people, for the people", but "to the people".

    • Canadian super politeness (Score:4, Interesting)

      by jurt1235 ( 834677 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:43AM (#13538287) Homepage
      Just be less polite. If everybody just hangs up on the marketeers once they start talking, it should stop fast enough (no income anymore=exit scheme, onto the next one: Pop-up and pop under adds, exit pages, etc EVIL LAUGH).
      The marketeers are usually trying to be persistent by just saying things like: you don't know what I am going to offer.
      If telemarketing anoys you, just hang up, do not even say goodbye anymore, you don't know them, you don't owe them, so what do you care.

      Sofar my advice to make canadians less polite.
      • If you hang up, they just go on to the next person. IIRC, they only need one sucker per 3,000-10,000 calls to for telemarketing to be profitable. If you want to have an impact, be more like a rude American. Lead them on, but don't commit to anything. If they want to confirm your name or address, tell them about your pets/children/last bowel movement, or whatever takes up time. I used to keep a headset on the kitchen phone so I could cook while wasting a ton of their time. 10-30 minutes on the phone wi

      • Re:Canadian super politeness (Score:5, Funny)

        by daVinci1980 ( 73174 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:58AM (#13538409) Homepage
        You've almost got the correct solution. I'm convinced that the "real" correct solution is to maximize the amount of time a telemarketer has to spend on the phone with you without a successful sale.

        The trivial method of doing this is straightforward, you get them into their selling mode, and then very quietly set the phone down. They'll talk for maybe 5-10 minutes before realizing that there's no one on the other end of the phone. After 15 minutes (or when you hear the annoying "phone off the hook" tone), come back and hang up.

        The slightly more effective method would be to record a sample of yourself saying (at 10-15 second intervals) "OOOoooh... Aaaaaahhh.. That sounds really cool.... Yes, please, tell me more..." You want the recorded loop to be ~5 minutes long to try to make the tape last longer during the phone call... People are pretty good at picking up patterns, so the longer the loop, the longer you can keep the solicitor on the phone. There is a slight improvement possible on this method whereby you record the samples individually and then use winamp to randomize the playback. That oughta be good for at least 20-30 minutes of telemarketer time.

        But the optimal solution is clearly to write an AI application that leads the telemarketer down the longest possible path through their script, and possibly loops them through it from time to time. Ideally, the application would even recognize call waiting and would ask the marketer to "hold on" while it clicked over and allowed you to speak with the person on the other line. It would need to analyze what they're saying and then say "no" at appropriate times to keep the marketer on the phone for as long as possible. I imagine with such an application, you could probably keep a marketer on the phone for 2-3 hours, if not more!

        As soon as I'm done writing this app, I'll be happy to sell it to you for a mere $19.95. Just send me your telephone number so I can call you and....
        • record a sample of yourself saying (at 10-15 second intervals) "OOOoooh... Aaaaaahhh.. That sounds really cool.... Yes, please, tell me more..." You want the recorded loop to be ~5 minutes long to try to make the tape last longer during the phone call...

          Sounds like a great Podcast!!

        • Re:Canadian super politeness (Score:4, Funny)

          by Dun Malg ( 230075 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @12:43PM (#13538771) Homepage
          But the optimal solution is clearly to write an AI application that leads the telemarketer down the longest possible path through their script, and possibly loops them through it from time to time. Ideally, the application would even recognize call waiting and would ask the marketer to "hold on" while it clicked over and allowed you to speak with the person on the other line. It would need to analyze what they're saying and then say "no" at appropriate times to keep the marketer on the phone for as long as possible. I imagine with such an application, you could probably keep a marketer on the phone for 2-3 hours, if not more! As soon as I'm done writing this app, I'll be happy to sell it to you for a mere $19.95. Just send me your telephone number so I can call you and....

          Heck, you could probably modify Eliza to do it.

          "EARLIER YOU SAID YOU HAVE A DISCOUNTED PRICE FOR A LIMITED TIME"

          "ARE YOU PREPARED TO ELABORATE?"

          "SUPPOSE I WERE NOT A QUALIFIED RECIPIENT OF YOUR SPECIAL OFFER"

        • I have heard a lot of people combat telemarketers by feigning interest in the product or service and then asking the caller to hold while they get a pen and paper. Then they set the phone down and never come back on the line.

          My sister used to work as a telemarketer. She told me that she LOVED these calls. The productivity software at the service bureau shows her as working a call. In actuality, she used the time to read, chat with friends, etc.

          At the end of the day, she was credited for keeping a custom
        • Behold: the Telecrapper. [pagerealm.com]
    • Just a number of months ago, people on /. were patting the Canadian gov't on the back for protecting the little guy from the spammer. Now it doesn't go your way and they are the r00t of all evil?
      • Nobody ever said that the Canadian government suffered from common sense or good judgement, and they are certainly not known for consistancy in any event. Today they vote yes, tomorrow they vote no.

        I've never claimed that my government was a bastion of faith, but I wouldn't say that they are the root of all evil. They are more like nodules on the root of all evil ;)

  • What's the difference? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Doctor Faustus ( 127273 ) <[Slashdot] [at] [WilliamCleveland.Org]> on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:41AM (#13538259) Homepage
    The article is gone, but if the businesses that are exempted are those with a pre-existing relationship with you, that would be the same as the American Do Not Call list.

  • let them call (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Keruo ( 771880 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:41AM (#13538261)
    just do what I did, and get cell plan where you get refund for received calls.
    I've almost paid my last months phone bill, just by talking with telemarketers.
    You can easily keep them talking for about 30 minutes by asking everything about the product they're selling.

    • Re:let them call (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Ironsides ( 739422 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @11:47AM (#13538323) Homepage Journal
      just do what I did, and get cell plan where you get refund for received calls. I've almost paid my last months phone bill, just by talking with telemarketers. You can easily keep them talking for about 30 minutes by asking everything about the product they're selling.

      A) Can you provide a link to the plan you are talking about.
      B)Laast time I checked, it was illegal in the US for telemarketers to call cell phones.

      • Re:let them call (Score:3, Interesting)

        by karmatic ( 776420 )
        As for B), it's illegal in the United States to send unsolicited commercial messages which the recipient must pay for. This is why junk faxes (paper/ink), and most junk cell calls (minutes) are illegal. If you have a free incoming/sender pays incoming, I suspect it would not be illegal if you weren't on the DNC.

        As for getting paid for incoming, I'm currently doing that with my voipuser [voipuser.org] account. I get an outgoing minute for every incoming one. I've got my UK phone number on my websites, and I use it in c
  • So effective was the destruction that even the content of the link in the summary has gone! (Firefox says "This document contains no data")

  • Full article (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Tired of junk phone calls? Call Industry Minister now

    MICHAEL GEIST

    In a scene that unfolds in millions of homes each day, dinner is interrupted by an unsolicited telemarketing call. Some Canadians immediately hang up, while others wait patiently for the marketer's speech to conclude. No matter the response, virtually everyone finds the calls invasive, disruptive, time-consuming, and incredibly annoying.

    Several years ago, the United States introduced legislation designed to curb unwanted telemarketing calls.

  • Call it what it is. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Hao Wu ( 652581 )

    "Telemarketing" == "Phone SPAM"
  • ...it gives the truly twisted an opportunity to counterstrike the telemarketer with a reverse crank call. I've done this for years and extracted some interesting responses on sexual orientation, inclinations, and practices before they know it. Sometimes you're fighting to keep composed and not break down in suffocating laughter.

    As far as looking out for the privacy of Canadian citizens however, it does suck.
  • Rephrasing the submission:

    The creation of a do-not-call list article in Canada has run into trouble. Michael Geist's report about the proposal has been effectively destroyed, with exceptions for just about anyone but slashdot. The slashdot editors committee apparently heard from the submitters but refused to listen to reader groups.
  • In principle, the do-not-call registry sounds like a great idea.

    However, telephone solicitation is very important to business, to charities, and to political organizations. How do we balance their needs with citizens' wants?

    I think it's very important that political groups especially are allowed to reach out to people in the community. Unfortunately, most people here in the US are ridiculously undereducated about political issues. What I'd like to see is a proscription against soliciting over the p
    • Umm.. I don't want to be called by anyone. This includes political parties, charities (thanks, I already donate hundreds of dollars yearly to local community groups, the Red Cross, and others I deem fit), and I am prefectly capable of finding the best goods/services to fit my needs on my own.

      I already know enough about our political system to know that our form of democracy is badly broken. I don't need their "information".

      Is it really too much to ask to be left alone?
    • > However, telephone solicitation is very important to business, to charities, and to
      > political organizations. How do we balance their needs with citizens' wants?

      How much value is there in calling people who adamantly do not wish to be called?

      > I think it's very important that political groups especially are allowed to reach out to
      > people in the community.

      Why political groups especially? What in your view makes them more special than other groups? Is it because you are concerned about politica

  • Answerphone detection (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Bushcat ( 615449 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @12:02PM (#13538450)
    I bumped into a guy via a cellphone mailing list, whose company has a dialling product that hangs up if it detects a human at the other end. But if it detects an answerphone, it delivers its advert. You have to wonder about people who actually design something like that, and the client companies that think it's the best way to get the message across. The guy does stuff for IBM, which we certainly filed away for future reference.

  • It's time for a prank (Score:3, Funny)

    by knopf ( 894888 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @12:09PM (#13538507)
    Option 1)

    Just feed Eliza some random input from an irc channel and pipe its output into ATT&T TTS [att.com] system and then into the phone for the telemarketer.

    Option 2)

    And if you are really lucky (and spammed), team up two telemarketers with each other, just as we saw with skype here [hopto.org].

  • Simple solution (Score:5, Funny)

    by HermanAB ( 661181 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @12:20PM (#13538603)
    Don't answer your phone... Mine has been on an answering machine since about 1980. We talk to each other by leaving messages on each other's machines. Keeps the phone bill down too.

  • Misleading, as usual (Score:4, Informative)

    by slavemowgli ( 585321 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @12:37PM (#13538720) Homepage
    The posting's misleading, unfortunately, like so many on Slashdot lately.

    The proposed bill does not grant an exception to the do-not-call list to all businesses; it grants an exception to businesses that have an *existing* business relationship with you. Still not good, but a random telemarketer won't be allowed to call you if you're not already a customer one way or another.

    Michael's article is quite clear in this regard, too. I really wish the Slashdot editors would check submissions for factual accuracy instead of blindly accepting any sensationalist story - Slashdot really seems to be becoming the tabloid news outlet of the internet, which is rather unfortunate.
    • The proposed bill does not grant an exception to the do-not-call list to all businesses; it grants an exception to businesses that have an *existing* business relationship with you. Still not good, but a random telemarketer won't be allowed to call you if you're not already a customer one way or another.

      So, let's just examine CIBC for example. Let's say Joe Canuck has a checking account with them. Now he has a relationship with them.

      Ah, so only they will phone, right?

      Wrong. Now CIBC can call you, anyone

  • Hidden from the Public, the solution... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by FFFish ( 7567 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @12:56PM (#13538880) Homepage
    ...is to figure out how to contact the Direct Marketing Association (or its Canuck equivalent; I forget its name) and get struck off the list.

    I did this nearly a decade ago and I have *no telemarketing calls* save three local charities that aren't members of the DMA.

    Unfortunately, I failed to save the information. I recall I obtained it by calling the telco and getting downright irate about the attempts by Sprint Cda to slam me into one of their plans. Somehow or other I finagled a phone number from the customer service rep...

  • International Telespam (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ear1grey ( 697747 ) on Monday September 12, 2005 @03:17PM (#13540055) Homepage

    The problem faced by Canada and/or the USA is indicative of a more general (and therefore more difficult to solve) problem.

    When a telemarketer calls you from your own country, both parties are governed by the same laws, however, many of those laws are ineffective when the caller and recipient are in different countries.

    With cheap telecommunications international telemarketing is becoming more common, and consumer protection is beginning to suffer.

    Take, for example, the recent spate of calls that have originated in Florida, and targetted North-West Europe. Each of these European countries has a national do-not-call list, yet international telemarketers are ignoring these lists, believing themselves to be untouchable.

    It's become so bad that "the Consumer Ombudsmen from the Nordic Countries of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland and Iceland have contacted the US Federal Trade Commission and cited concerns over some international business practices" [1][2]

    1. Quote Source [boakes.org]
    2. PDF Nordic Letter to the FTC [forbrug.dk]

    The letter itself cites concerns over both telemarketing and general internet marketing, and illustrates that once national boundaries are crossed, the temptation to increase sales (possibly by misrpresenting the goods that are being sold) may be more than some telemarketers (or telemarketing company managers) can bear.

    What is needed is a global agreement on Do-Not-Call lists. Without such an agreement, national lists will be entirely irrelevant as each company conscientiously respects it's own citizens whilst mercilessly telespamming the rest of the world.

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