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Orkut Linked To Drug Ring Bust 269

Posted by Zonk from the connecting-people-in-new-ways dept.
Dynamoo writes "Google's Orkut service has been allegedly used to sell drugs by a Brazilian outfit, according to a BBC news report. According to the report, the dealers offered pot and ecstasy for sale via the system to Brazil's large Orkut user community. Google is reported to be investigating. One interesting issue that springs to mind is: how can you monitor and moderate such a large, multilingual community such as Orkut? And what are the limits of criminal liability in a case like this?"
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Orkut Linked To Drug Ring Bust More

Orkut Linked To Drug Ring Bust

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  • Legal Liability (Score:5, Interesting)

    by netruner ( 588721 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:23PM (#13140087)
    What is Cingular, T-Mobile and Verizon's legal liability for illegal activity ranging from petty drug dealing all the way up to terrorism when their products and network are used to perpetrate those crimes?

    • Re:Legal Liability (Score:4, Insightful)

      by xiando ( 770382 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:36PM (#13140230) Homepage Journal
      What you need to know about using a Mobile Telephone in most parts of the world: They use something called GSM technology. Every GSM phone has a unique number. And every GSM customer in (almost all parts of the world) are required to be registered with the provider. It is illegal to provide anonymous cellphone subscriptions in this country and most others. Furthermore, cell phone providers must comply when police and other authorities require a real-time tap of your calls, a printout of all your text-messages and most importantly a mapped feed on your location at all times based on your phones distance from the GSM masts all over. This is how these cell phone companies are liable for criminal activity: They MUST assist fully to uncover and prove crime when asked to do so. They ARE HELD LIABLE if they are asked to comply in any criminal investigation and fail to comply.

      • Re:Legal Liability (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Com2Kid ( 142006 )
        Three words: Cash, prepaid cellular.
        • "Cash, prepaid cellular." is now Illegal in this country. Seriously. You can still put cash on a pay-phone, though..
          • "Cash, prepaid cellular." is now Illegal in this country. Seriously. You can still put cash on a pay-phone, though..

            Both times I've bought prepaid in Canada and the one time in the US I was just asked for my info, never asked to see an ID. When I signed up for Fido prepaid in Canada I gave them my home address (which was not in Canada) and the salesman just put the a made up phone number and the stores address. When I got back to the US, I then sold the activated SIM on eBay and then changed the name on t

    • i think it's different in this case. anyone can access orkut, because google's provided it as a public service. however, cell phones and other network mediums are private transactions, meaning i'm not allowed to listen into another person's conversation and they system won't allow me unless i deliberately hack into it. (sorta like kevin mitnick in hackers 2).

      it's the same as someone posting an ad on a newspaper selling drugs. by law, i think the newspaper is responsible for not letting that happen.

  • What is wrong with Marijuana? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by linzeal ( 197905 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:23PM (#13140092) Journal
    I'm sure such services facilitate the transaction between brewers of beer and makers of wine. Why does marijuana which is less damaging than both when injested instead of inhaled deserve any attention from police? MDMA is different and has been linked to brain damage by multiple studies I believe.

    • This has been refuted in recent times. In the 80s during the Reagan administration quite a few flawed and slanted studies were done on ecstasy that showed that it was dangerous. The reality of it is that long-term use of MDMA does not put "holes" in your brain or anything like it.

      People who trust everything the government says are fools, particularly when there's an agenda involved, like the "Just say no to drugs" campaign.

      • Re:What is wrong with Marijuana? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by 0x0000 ( 140863 ) <zerohex@ze r o h e x.com> on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:41PM (#13140273) Homepage

        The Reagan administration also told us catsup is a vegetable. Now the same idiots think they can convince teenagers to stop having sex.

        People who trust everything the government says are fools

        While that was once true, times have changed. Nowadays people who trust anything the government says are fools.

        • Re:What is wrong with Marijuana? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by runderwo ( 609077 ) * <runderwo@mail.wi ... rg minus painter> on Friday July 22, 2005 @07:24PM (#13140576)
          To elaborate on your statement against the inevitable rebuttal, saying that it is foolish to trust the government does *NOT* mean that none of the propaganda the government puts out is true. (Some of it *is* true.) It just means that so much of it is demonstrably false that now a statement being made by the government is an extremely weak predictor of whether or not the statement is actually true. Or in other words, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
      • I worked as a research associate on a pharmaceutical study for benzodiazepines and their effect on movement disorders such as Tourette's.

        Our subjects had to honestly disclose drug use as we did extensive testing. We did imaging on our subjects at the end of the study. EVERY user of ecstacy in our study had some form of (visible to the naked eye) brain lesions. Every one. We had a large pool of participants.

        The reality of my experience is that I would not recommend the recreational use of MDMA.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • The point of this topic is not if Marijuana should be legalized, but how can this type of illict transaction be stopped in the future? Regardless of the hazards of Marijuana and Ecstasy, the fact remains that they are illegal, and as such, the laws should be enforced. The drug trade is such a problem in the common parents head, that enforcing the laws against trafficing is much more important to the police then other laws that they may choose to put lesser importance on.
      • The answer is abundantly clear. This type of illicit transaction CANNOT be stopped. It has never been successfully stopped, it can never be successfully stopped, and if it ever somehow became possible to control people so totally as to be able to stop it, it would be well past time to overthrow the government. The answer to how to stop all this organized crime is the same as it was during prohibition days: let the people enjoy themselves, and give them the ability to purchase the things they enjoy with s
    • The problem is that the War On Drugs is pure propaganda completely based in slanted studies. Let the true facts be damned! If the war on drugs were to be stopped and only opiates, cocaine and illegal behind the counter related drugs were consider illegal we could end starvatation in this country as well as repair our defunct medical system and cure many other ills.
    • The fact that marijuana is completely harmless and far less dangerous than alcohol is totally irrelevant for Orkuts involvement in the distribution of illegal substances. Orkut, and any other public service for that matter, can not condone or assist in the breaking of any (local) law regardless of their personal view on the matter. Orkuts view on the legal status of cannabis, if they for some strange reason have one, is irrelevant for their obligation to assist authorities in striking down on criminal activ
      • The fact that marijuana is completely harmless and far less dangerous than alcohol

        Do you care to elaborate about that? I find it hard to believe that any kind of smoking could be considered "harmless". Smoke contains the products of combustion, many of which have been proved beyond any reasonable doubt to be harmful.

        Perhaps one could argue for chewing hashish, but smoking anything, be it marijuana, opium, or tobacco, is harmful from the effects of the smoke alone, no matter which is the substance being

    • No, MDMA has never been shown to cause brain damage, only an excess of serotonin when it is abused. This excess can lead to the depression and burnout that heavy MDMA users tend to experience. The most risky aspect of MDMA is that of dehydration and irresponsible sexual behavior, and of not being able to obtain medical treatment for an overdose without the consequence of going to jail.

      IMO, neither of these substances deserve attention from police besides to regulate their purity and ensure that they are

      • No, MDMA has never been shown to cause brain damage, only an excess of serotonin when it is abused.

        I would call the results of blasting the neuron filters in the brain through artificially induced excess serotonin "brain damage" myself but that's just me. Oh, and maybe also a friend who overdosed because he kept wanting that first high and didn't realise that he could never get it back since his neurons were permanently damaged. He might call it brain damage but he's past speech now. Past anything in fact
        • I'm sorry about your friend, but overdose due to tolerance and inaccurate dosage is not a phenomenon unique to MDMA. We see it every day with alcohol and prescription drugs as well as various other illegal drugs. I was not claiming that it is impossible to overdose on MDMA. I was claiming that abuse (or use) within the range of dosage required for recreational effect carries little risk of harm with it.

          The brain damage that is associated with MDMA overdose occurs at levels far beyond where additional dos

    • What's wrong with it? I'll tell you what's wrong with it - once the people hand their right to do something over to the government, the government almost never gives it back.
    • Actually, MDMA may not be all that bad. It is linked to brain damage in rats, but the same study also proved that you could prevent 100% of the damage by administering an SSRI (Prozac, Zoloft, St. John's Wort, etc.)

  • Multilingual? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by the_rev_matt ( 239420 ) <slashbot AT revmatt DOT com> on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:23PM (#13140095) Homepage
    Since when is Orkut multilingual? I gave up on the site many many months ago when posting something in english in any of the dozens of forums I was in resulted in 20-30 abusive responses in portuguese.

    The Brazilians took over Orkut long ago, it's useless to anyone else.

    • Re:Multilingual? (Score:4, Funny)

      by wronski ( 821189 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:37PM (#13140239)
      You should welcome your new Brazilian overlords!
    • I was kinda getting used to all the responses in Dutch, now I have to worry about Brazilian?

    • Re:Multilingual? (Score:5, Funny)

      by IronChef ( 164482 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @08:40PM (#13141052)
      How do you know the replies were abusive if you don't speak Portuguese? Maybe they were inviting you over to meet their sisters.
    • This is exactly why I'm learning Esperanto -- so I can effectively troll everyone on the Orkut forums at once.

      Now how do you say, "Score me some?" in Esperanto?
    • There are many forums that are 95%-100% English, like this one [orkut.com]. You just picked the wrong one.

      (If you don't read Portuguese, how did you know it was abusive?)

    • There are also substantial Iranian, Estonian, Pakistani communities... If you don't speak their languages, how is that their problem? Most of them have made the effort to learn yours. Here are Orkut's actual demographic statistics [orkut.com]. It would be interesting to see statistics based on proportion-of-population. I think Estonia would be quite high on the list. Where else could you meet these guys if you don't travel?

  • Whoa! This is heavy.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PDXNerd ( 654900 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:23PM (#13140096)
    In other news, a new device called a "cellphone" was recently used in the bust of three columbian druglords. Apparently they were using the address book feature to store phone numbers of other drug lords and were using the "voice" features to network and make deals. How does one go about "wiretapping" and busting such a multi-lingual and diverse group of folk who use "cellphones?"

  • Duh! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Locke2005 ( 849178 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:25PM (#13140116)
    And what are the limits of criminal liability in a case like this? Gee, I don't know... what are the limits of liability for the phone companies, postal server, or the package delivery companies if they are used by drug distributors? I beleive the answer is "no liability whatsoever". Why do people think that everything is different if it's done on a computer?
    • I didn't RTFA and IANAL, but there is one aspect about this that is interesting...

      Phone companies, postal servers, delivery companies are common carriers - they provide a service (within their own rules) to anyone who wants it, and they are not liable for what is in the packages - they are providing a service; they are not part of a criminal enterprise even if criminals use the service.

      Isn't Slashdot protected in the same way? Anyone can post, Slashdot is a common carrier and is not responsible for the

    • Does the Phone company, postal service, or package delivery company allow you to: publically post data, orginize groups, or store information for you?

      Don't pretend that people are stupid, or that these issues are cut and dried. I respect Google and don't consider them to be liable, however this is not the same as what you describe.

  • GoogleDrugs (Score:5, Funny)

    by Lord Marlborough ( 897605 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:26PM (#13140122)
    332 dime bags jamacain hashish to kilos ::search:: 332 dime bags = 0.71548362344 kilos

  • Legal basis in brick and mortar law (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sterno ( 16320 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:26PM (#13140127) Homepage
    How would Orkut be any different than having a coffee shop where some people were dealing drugs without your knowledge? Yes you provided a gathering place, but it's not like you really did anything other than that to facillitate it.

    Obviously if you knew about it and didn't make some effort to stop it, that would be a different scenario but there's no indication that's the case here.

  • How exactly would one police such a thing? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Tink2000 ( 524407 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:27PM (#13140129) Homepage Journal
    These guys seem to have gotten caught after being found out on a telephone conversation - leading to the authorities to get access at their internet connection. First rule of traffic is to keep a low profile, and apparently someone broke that rule (and got phonetapped in the process, which blew the rest of this open).

    I honestly don't see how Google (or anyone else for that matter) could manage policing this type of environment. Instead of saying "Hey I have $SUBSTANCE", smart dealers will say things like, "Free kittens to good home" or whatnot.

    Of course, I could springboard from here to legalization arguments, but that would bring me way OT...

  • And in other news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nettdata ( 88196 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:28PM (#13140141) Homepage
    ...the phone companies were charged with conspiracy to sell narcotics after it was discovered that people were using the phone to help sell drugs. Not.

    Seriously, I don't see any legal implications for Google, as they didn't set up the system to sell drugs... it was just an avenue of communication that drug dealers/users took advantage of to sell and buy drugs.

    Any form of communication can be used for that purpose... photocopiers, phones, carrier pigeons.... Actually, that's not a bad idea... hmmm...
    • Same here. The only thing I can see screwing Google is if they don't comply with cooperating.

      Assuming that the Brazillian and American authorities play nice, which, typically they do.
      • Exactly... and even then I tend to think that it wouldn't be any kind of drug charges, it would be some sort of obstruction charge... assuming the international issues weren't actually issues.

        Jurisdiction and enforcement could be a bitch.

  • Liability? No... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by kmanq ( 818756 )
    I don't think there should be any liability for providing a service like this. Thats like saying the US government is responsible for drugs that someone sold using the US mail. Or UPS being responsible for the same thing. However this begs the question should a more dangerous item such as a bomb be the shippers responsibiliy? Personally I think it should not be. However in a good free market I think you should see some competition in this area, "our service is better because we scan your packege before you
  • Well, communicating about illegal activity on a public forum is a pretty stupid idea. Especially considering evidence that Orkut may be involved with the CIA and NSA [infiltrated.net]. Chances are those organizations were involved in this drug bust.

  • What I'd like to know is.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by riflemann ( 190895 ) <riflemann@@@bb...cactii...net> on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:29PM (#13140159)
    what has made Orkut such a popular site for Brazilians? (aside from drugs!)
  • I guess this explains how Google beat forecaster's predictions on profitability.

    Gates won't take this sitting down. Maybe we need to take another look at that recently discovered drug tunnel on the Canadian border. I wonder if it was meant to go all the way to Redmond?

  • People are using a communications medium for drugs and it's something newsworthy? I would think the proper response would be duh. Careful guys, next thing you know they'll start using IRC networks even, or maybe IM services like AIM and ICQ! Criminal liability? What a joke. What next, holding telephone service providers accountable when a drug deal goes down on their network? Give me a break.

  • What should be the limit of criminal liabilit is obvious: If you are aware something criminal is going on, then you should be held liable. If you know nothing then obviously you are not liable. This is the simple bulletin board v.s. the street corner cafe thing. The cafe owner is not responsible if a drug dealer stops by while in possession of drugs, but if the cafe owner knows someone is dealing drugs at his cafe and approves of it, then that is something completely different.
    • So, take a quick look at craigslist.org - I'd say one in 5 personal ads includes the dollar-sign refernce for "will pay" or "for pay" and a similar ratio of them includes a "420" reference for pot smokers.

      Is craigslist responsible too? Or are they just a "common carrier" of information? [As a voting libertarian, you know my feelings, but, it is an interesting question anyway.]
    • then you should be held liable

      No, you shouldn't, unless you are materially involved in the criminal activity.

      We've all lived in areas at one time or another, or known people who partake in illegal activities, but we don't in general rat them out unless compelled to.

      Nor do we like being around those who partake some amount of enjoyment in pointing out every civil, criminal and other misdeeds that others may be doing. "I heard this moaning going on. They MUST have been having sex in their house. What abou
  • Why do the authorities even bother looking/searching for drug crimes? They lost this war decades ago, didn't anybody tell them it's time to surrender? Or maybe it's time to adopt a new approach to dealing with drugs.. What a waste of fucking resources this whole god damn thing is. Let me go back to smoking my Canadian hash, thank you.
  • This isn't bad -- this is GREAT! This is an investigators dream; documented evidence of the social structure of a drug ring. They know who's friends with who and have leads galore.

  • Who's Fault Was It? (Score:5, Funny)

    by greymond ( 539980 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:36PM (#13140227) Homepage Journal
    So since Ortuk is an "Invite Only" community who invited thier Law Enforcement friend? Guess they don't have to worry about getting "wacked" since on the internet everyone is anonymous...oh wait...shit...

  • Liability? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by recoiledsnake ( 879048 )
    What's the liability of the government for building the roads on which the drug transport takes place?

  • Thank God they were caught! (Score:4, Funny)

    by hotspotbloc ( 767418 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @06:41PM (#13140269) Homepage Journal
    And that will put an end to illegal drug sales. The War on Drugs has been won!
    • The War On Drugs is just a marketing term. It is really A War On The People. It can not be won and it is not even meant to be won, the war is meant to be continues in order to ensure that the very structure of society remain intact. Light drugs are not illegal because they are in any way dangerous, they are illegal because it makes huge portions of the population criminals, thereby giving the automatizes greater control over them. The people demand supply and supply, or the people, is who the war is really
      • I like your thesis, but I think you're missing the part where it's not just "people", it's "the sort of people who use drugs", which are intended to be separate from "the good, honest, moral, God-fearing people who make the laws" and "the good, honest, moral, God-fearing people who elected them". Never forget the complicity of the electorate, who keep sending tough-on-drugs candidates back, and who spaz when a candidate admits to using drugs.

        So it's not just a "war on people"; that's a little too Orwellia
  • I'm brazilian and I canceled my Orkurt's account because criminals are using Orkut information to extort people.

    It is a shame.
    • ... as I also live in Brazil, so it would be easy to mail it to you.

      Jokes aside being a victim of extortion is not a result of your data being online or not, is a result you you being dumb enough to let them do it to you.

      I've recieved phone calls from ppl that "would kidnap my kid" if I don't pay them off. What I did? Plain and simple: Fuck off, I aint paying you nothing dude! Those calls are oftem made from inside prisions and the only power they have is to anoy you. If you are firm and say no they will
      • Sorry mods, this is off topic, but...

        Can prisoners really make free phone calls like that? Here, (The US), they all have to make collect calls or BUY a phone card (and even then your call list has to be approved)... in the case of the collect call, you can permenantly block calls from that prison. Who the HELL thought up the idea of letting the incarcerated call anyone they want?! Seems crazy to me. Shit, jail would be like a vacation for a mob man.

  • how can you monitor (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Threni ( 635302 )
    > how can you monitor and moderate such a large, multilingual community

    Within a few years ISPs will be required to store *everything* they transfer so peoples internet usage can be scanned for copyright materials, evidence of drug dealing etc. The government will spend a lot of money developing code to track social networks (quite apart from just taking the data from Orkut and similar), AI to locate people using codes etc. It'll be an offence to operate as an ISP without such storage (perhaps you'll hav

  • Got 420? (Score:3, Funny)

    by value_added ( 719364 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @07:01PM (#13140423)
    This just in:

    "The popular Craigslist bulletin board service has been allegedly used to offer sex and drugs. According to the report, members are using the system to conspire with other members, offering companionship, massage, and sex in conjunction with variety of controlled substances for fun and possibly profit.

    One official was quoted as saying, "It took some time, but the guys in our Cybersecurity Department finally cracked the secret codes"

  • A BRAZILIAN drug bust? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @07:01PM (#13140425) Homepage
    Wow....this happened in Brazil, and through Orkut? Who would have ever imagined. This post is not a troll or a flame, but I have to say...as the owner of the Japanese Food/Sushi Lovers community which has 88.7 THOUSAND members right now (the vast majority of which are Brazilian), it is the Brazilians that have ruined Orkut for everybody else.

    Don't get me wrong, most of them are extremely nice people who are eager to learn about other cultures, however there are some who are incredibly racist, and think that just because they have the largest population on Orkut, that they don't have to follow the rules when it says English Only in a community.

    I've since enforced a rule that drew a LOT of hostility whereby I deleted every post that did not contain an English translation, and banned people for disruptive behavior (you have no idea how many attacks there were on the community).

    I've grown a little lax due to work lately, but I can easily say they ruined it for the rest of us. Too bad, with a bit more work, Orkut could have been quite cool.

    • I think now that the world is getting a little smaller, thanks to ye' old Internet, people are starting to realize something about other cultures. That is that people who speak multiple languages well, especially YOUR language, are usually more likely to be well educated and mannered and like YOUR culture.

      What people don't realize is that people who don't care about YOUR culture and don't speak YOUR language are usually less likely to be appreciative and understanding of YOUR culture and you personally.
  • There's this new technological innovation which is pretty complicated but it's apparently some sort of "switched network." Some miscreant abused this innovation to set up an appointment with a drug dealer!

    America's children are at risk! Why hasn't Congress acted!!?? Write your representative TODAY!

  • Will they even bother? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by EvilStein ( 414640 ) <.ten.pbp. .ta. .maps.> on Friday July 22, 2005 @07:35PM (#13140653)
    There are DOZENS of drug deals happening on Craigslist all the time.

    Check it out.. look for the names like "Crystal," "Tina," "Mary Jane," and any post that says "party tonight."

    They're all dealing with drugs. People flag them, but more just pop up.
  • You cannot sue a city because people sell drugs within its boundary.

    You can sue a city for using taxpayers money for opening an official place to sell drugs if its against the country's law.

    Therefore

    You cannot sue Google because people sell drugs using its service.

    You could sue Google for offering an official service used to sell drug to resident of a country where its illegal.
  • Dealers also tend to use cell phones to make deals. They've also been spotted to use busses and maybe even cars to deal drugs.

    Lets blame cell phone companies and car manufacturers for people who *like* to get high using something else than alcohol.
  • Bad, bad server. No pot for you.
  • And what are the limits of criminal liability in a case like this?"

    Mentality like that is like trying to sue the telephone company for someone making a drug deal over a payphone.

    Paranoia is not really an in-or-out kinda thing, it's a varying scale from slight caution to neurotic obsession. Some people just don't know where to draw the line, or even that the line exists.

    To truly and completely protect the public, we must surrender 100% of our rights. It's already gone too far, we need to start digging

  • Doh! (Score:2, Funny)

    by kamileon ( 35033 )
    Damn! Why didn't I think of using a social networking site to buy drugs? Now it's too late...

    Erm, I mean, that's reprehensible. How dare they be so ingenious.

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