Windows AntiSpyware Downgrades Claria Detections 411
accihap writes "A week after word leaked out that Microsoft was negotiating an acquisition deal with Claria (See recent /. coverage), spyware researchers have noticed that the Windows antispyware application has downgraded Claria's Gator detections and changed the recommended action from 'quarantine' to 'ignore.' Screenshots of the new default settings."
Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly...is anyone surprised by this? We all saw this coming.
Unfortunately, M$ can pull this sort of thing with near-impunity, as the only ones outraged by this are the ones who had issues with them in the first place (read: us).
The vast majority of Windows users out there are just going to shrug and say, "Oh well...if Microsoft says they're not a threat, then they must not be a threat."
It's worrying... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
Confirmed (Score:5, Insightful)
When a for-profit organization releases a product that can adversely (or positively) affect another for-profit organization we must expect, at least sometimes, to have some negative effects on the consumer. Its a capitalist society and companies are free to do anything and everything they need to maximize profits, within the scope of the law.
I guess it's "just" typical MS (Score:5, Insightful)
This sort of thing boils my blood. There is a certain level of trust I have with a vendor who provides detection and removal of spyware, etc. I've not payed as much attention as maybe I should have, but what other vendors are strong in detecting spyware that don't give in or at least haven't thus far? The product they purchased from Giant was really good to boot. Doesn't take look for the MS taint to occur, does it?
Unrelated, I get the impression, MS doesn't need more competent competition to fail. Instead, they need to continue doing just what they are doing. Between moves like this, the failure to manage projects, etc. they are hurting themselves just fine and making everything that isn't MS look better.
Every so often the MS marketing machine almost gets me to believe they might be changing. The developer blogs have helped a lot in that respect. Then MS does something like this. On the one hand they say they are concerned about this threat and then, not too long into the future, they pull a move like this which says the exact opposite.
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
Before getting into a stew it would be worthwhile considering whether it is likely that a significant number of people with Claria crap are opting to keep it.
No way would I have Claria crap on my machine but it does appear that there are people downloading the trash intentionally.
Photoshop? (Score:5, Insightful)
One in the eye for MS Anti Spyware lovers (Score:2, Insightful)
How Long (Score:3, Insightful)
How long before MS integrates Gator into the OS where it cannot be removed without corrupting the system?
Re:first post (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:3, Insightful)
They just downgraded the threat level to Moderate and changed recommended action to Ignore.
Those who care can change it to Remove. It's that easy.
No big deal.
I've seem some other utilities that call everything threats and/or infections - even cookies. That's even worse that MS's downgrade of Claria/Gator.
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:1, Insightful)
This is just another confirmation that I made the right decision when I dropped Windows completely. I've never looked back.
It's these types of moves that make even their dedicated user-base go "ugh". Microsoft keeps adding "features" that are not in the best interests of the users. I don't see the same reaction to Apple by it's users.
Microsoft's products cater to third party businesses (such as DRM via Media Player, or now this move to protect their recent investment/acquisition).
At this point, Windows (the OS) should be free to the pubic -- it could easily be paid for by the outside interests who seem to have so much influence!
Then, if the public use it, at least they won't be paying for the privilege of getting screwed!
Re:Let the conspiracy theories fly! (Score:5, Insightful)
One has to wonder if companies such as Microsoft do things like this intentionally or, as the comment in the article indicated, simply miss some things in the wash?
Of course this was done intentionally. GAIN must be the most widespread and well-known spyware out there, do you think that a team of people working on one of the world's biggest anti-spyware programs accidentally thought it was not a threat and should be set to "ignore"? Or do you think someone "accidentally" modified the status in the database by clicking a few wrong buttons, and that quality control didn't check before a product release that their anti-spyware program happens to ignore the world's biggest spyware? There is just no way this happened by mistake.
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
If this indeed checks out, Microsoft Antispyware will be removed from our regional ISP's recommendation list by the end of the day. Our customer care people presently recommend it as the first tool for spyware infections due to its previous effectiveness in identifying items that several other no-fee tools did not.
Software that intentionally misleads users regarding the actual risk of unauthorized application behavior is malware, regardless of the vendor or intent.
Take off the tin-foil hats... (Score:1, Insightful)
Sometimes the initial
Interesting turn of events (Score:4, Insightful)
1. MS buying Giant means putting a great anti-spyware product into Windows. Windows becomes *stronger* at stopping such attacks.
2. MS possibly buying Claria means that Microsoft could eliminate one of the biggest pieces of spyware out there. In other words, Claria/Gator becomes *weaker*.
Now, it's possible that things will look like this:
1. Anti-spyware becomes *weaker*.
2. Claria/Gator becomes *stronger*.
So much for doing the right thing(s).
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
My point being, most users don't know or understand what is in the programs, and so the determination of their adware/ non-adware status should not be left up to them.
Additionally, what is going to stop the AdWare networks from running bots that mark their programs as Keep or Ignore and thus flooding the SpyWareNet with false info.
If the change comes becuse of user feed back, then the system is flawed. If the change came because MS got paid, or threatened to be sued then MS is just corrupt.
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:3, Insightful)
There's Microsoft saying that in the future we should let them run our lives and give them control of our home applicances and such. Then they go and do this.
Makes you think: In 10 - 15 years when Microsoft will probably own half the home security alarms market, I wonder what will happen if they were to acquire 'Burglers Inc.'?
Its not hard to imagine Microsoft downgrading the threat posed by them to 'ignore' either.
Re:And people trust a firewall to them (Score:5, Insightful)
Marketing a security product for your own operating system is like correcting your own spelling test.
I might just have to go make up some more bumper stickers or something.
We should all be grateful that M$ detects it (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
Does that sufficiently explain it?
Serious Question (Score:2, Insightful)
I suppose another way to ask this question is why the Revolution(tm) hasn't come yet...
Claria = Gator = Spyware = Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
"...take control of your life..."
A lot of the MS vs. (everyone else) debate sounds like this.
My life? How is an anti-spyware tool on my computer going to really affect my life? Or how is my computer going to help me take control of my life?
My computer is just a stupid, noisy, power-sucking box that sits on the floor. I am the one that gives it life, not the other way around. Whatever operating system it runs doesn't really affect my life at all- I just use the thing.
Just like the hedge trimmers I bought last weekend- I went to the store, bought some, and used them. It wasn't a decision that would affect my life- just those few moments as I trimmed the bushes.
My whole point is...don't confuse a computer with real life. Real life is about people, love, adventure, relationships, hardships and successes.
Computers are about reading e-mail, and surfing for porn.
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps the same thing that motivates a large number of people to go to the Claria site and download Claria's software on purpose?
This is what makes anti-spyware applications difficult. Things like Claria's software do provide some useful functionality in exchange for their data gathering, and some people find that to be a worthwhile trade. They'd rather give up some information and get the software for "free", than pay money for software that doesn't gather information.
This puts the anti-spyware application developer in a pickle. Remove stuff like Claria, to protect users who didn't realize what they were getting into (or don't even realize they have it), and then piss off people who actually asked for Claria's stuff? Or let Claria's stuff stay, and then fail to protect those who didn't want it?
Re:Why? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Take off the tin-foil hats... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, it's true that the usual reaction to MS stories tends to be kneejerk criticism often without much evidence of thought or rational balance. The baby gets the old heave ho along with the bath water more times than not. I usually urge a more reasonable approach based on the real contributions that MS has made to the IT industry and the fact that most major corporations behave the same way. I may not agree with MS's methods, but I try to keep an open mind, always aware of what MS has always represented. That said...NOT THIS TIME!
It's bad enough that the most pernicious and persistant tattle tale software on a MS box is probably the operating system. Take for example the index files in WIN98 that have never been explaned, the automatic updates in apps that can't be disabled, and services that reinstall themselves behind your back. I really do buy the 'least common denominator' explanation for a lot of these 'features', most users really don't understand their computers enough to maintain them, much less integrate new codecs, standards, and protocols. I do believe that making the default behaviors in many programs more update and security focused was a necessary step. MS often gets a bad rap for problems users could avoid by performing their recommended chores, especially installing patches. Bill Gates has recently touted a new focus on security, wanting to win back some customer trust. Whew, it was nice to see MS finally starting to turn in a new direction. Maybe I should have known better. The attitude expressed in this situation seems to be "Oh that's OK, it's just us, your friendly neighborhood MS. It was bad when those other guys did it, but you can trust us! By the way, could you enter your 16 digit authentication code and explain what that new unsupported by XP hardware is, since we really can't trust you?"
Microsoft could take the lead in creating really secure, customer oriented products. Maybe they would make a little less money if they gave up the drive to control every part of the industry. Would that kill them? IT is past the point where it needs one firm hand on the tiller to keep from sinking. Microsoft has the power and influence to change the face of software development. They could help make the world a better, freer place. Too bad the accountants have taken over from the dreamers.
billy - say it ain't so Bill...
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
My computer is just a stupid, noisy, power-sucking box that sits on the floor. I am the one that gives it life, not the other way around. Whatever operating system it runs doesn't really affect my life at all- I just use the thing.
I think you're missing the point. A computer is a very powerful tool, and the more you use it to communicate and work (research, etc. counts as work), the more its correct operation impacts your life. This is analogous to buying a nice power drill -- if you rarely use it, a $20 cordless from Wal-Mart will suffice you; but, if you are remodelling your house and use it every day, you will need to buy a better drill and put some effort toward maintaining it (keeping the cord from getting worn, making sure not to strip out the chuck, etc.), or you will find your projects significantly delayed.
Viruses and other malware (spyware included) have become a fact of life for most Windows users. The more they use their tool (the computer), the more impact that being hit by malware will have on their life. Most people are at least somewhat aware of this, so they purchase anti-malware software to protect their Windows machines. The fact that such software is so popular indicates that people are aware that malware significantly impacts their lives if they are regular computer users.
The problem is that people have just accepted that malware is out there, and feel that forking over a few hundred dollars for someone to detect and fix infections is the only real course of action. This is akin to getting the flu frequently, accepting that we all get sick, and paying a doctor for medication for every infection; yet, if one were to simply wear properly-warm clothing, eat balanced meals, and ensure a sufficient supply of Vitamin C, etc., one could reduce their vulnerabilities significantly. This is how I see suggesting a user switch to Linux or Mac OSX. Yes, it requires some effort, some discipline and some self-education (just as changing your diet and other habits would), but the end result is significantly less vulnerability.
Why people continue to accept Windows' problems without much ire is a mystery to me.
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey Microsoft brainwashed flunky! (Score:1, Insightful)
Linux users dream for a better world of software. Sure many of the items on your list are valid. THAT IS NOT THE POINT. Unless we strive for a computing world outside of Microcrap, we'll forever be forced to take their software as it is.
Note how many changes Microshit has done because of the outcry of IT professionals-patches, firewalls, etc.. These would not have happened if the "linux zealots" just took what microshit had to offer lying down.
Personally, i though M$ should have been completely broken up and their OS and software separated into different companies. But, as always, $$$ makes right, and the govt and courts were bought off.
It's time to dream of a world outside of microsoft. And even though that may mean the dissolution of your "brainwashed ms lacky" job at M$, we'll go dancing merrily down the street knowing that WE WILL HAVE CHOICES.
Without the dreams of what Linux (and mac osx) can become, we are stuck with M$'s putrid software for the masses.
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:3, Insightful)
It's just ironic that the above activities are the things that will get a Windows box to its knees within days (hours, minutes?), if the user is not maintaining an arsenal of anti-everthing software.
GNU/Linux will not make you live the life of 007, but it certainly brings down the maintenance time significantly. When you are just checking e-mail and surfing porn, this simply is the unbending truth.
Ofcourse you are free to choose using Windows with a big arsenal of band-aids to keep it running. I'm just glad that I have the choice not to go down the same route.
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
And I disagree that most users will remove it anyway. The huge majority of users will accept the default recommendations.
Re:My personal policy... (Score:3, Insightful)
IMO, AVG and Avast! are both better antivirus packages than McAfee or Norton.
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:3, Insightful)
Computers are about reading e-mail, and surfing for porn.
Computers can easily be used for the other things you mentioned as well, which undermines your argument somewhat.
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:3, Insightful)
OK I take the point about the computer being a funky little box. But the rest of it is daft, if that "stupid, noisy, power-sucking box" loses your credit card information (or other personal details) you'll soon find your life pretty badly affected. Keeping your computer free from malware is pretty important, I'd agree the exact speed of your CPU might not be.
Also if your computer spews email and viruses it can make everyone else's life pretty sucky too.
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:2, Insightful)
When you remove malware from a luser's computer, you need to try to find them an alternative to the thing that you're taking away. No, it's not your job to give them fun toys to play with. But if you don't, they'll continue to f**k up their system.
The other alternative is take away all admin priv.s, and be all hard-assed about it (this works less well when the luser is family).
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:4, Insightful)
Those who care don't get spyware IN THE FIRST PLACE. They already use firefox, have their firewall, and often run ad-aware and spybot SnD.
But here it's the Joe user we're talking about.
Besides - who says malware authors won't disguise their malware as Claria's? (Expect a Secunia report issued in the following months about this exact issue)
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:2, Insightful)
Computer problems have existed for a long time, pre-windows, pre-linux, pre-dos. Users just accept that as with any machinery, there are caveats to use, and that it will not always run as smooth as it did on day 1 out-of-the-box.
The problem is that users EXPECT problems with their computer, like they do with their cars, their houses, everything.
The alternative to the many problems of Windows, is either Mac (which they cant find software for as prevalent as PC's at retail stores...), or Linux, which has a steep learning curve that makes users not want to "put hours into learning the system just to check my email"
The alternatives are out there, but they have their caveats as well.
Users will stick with what is prevalent, popular, easy, fast, and simple. Windows defines all that for the basic user, and they just accept the problems along with the benefits.
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:2, Insightful)
It might not necessarily be so much as accepting Windows' problems, but a lack of knowledge about those problems. Another contributing factor could be the fact that Windows is pretty much the only operating system installed on computers at the store, and most of the software on the shelves is written for Windows.
Hope be with ye,
Cyan
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:2, Insightful)
well, my thoughts on this.
1. microsoft has done a remarkable job of addicting the world to microsoft office, and office ain't going within 10 miles of linux. despite the fact that there are programs like openoffice, which i have tried, i still prefer microsoft office. could be that i'm simply used to how it runs.
2. microsoft has become the leading OS on the planet. go into the local computer software shop and tell me what percentage of the programs sold there run only on windows. i would say the number is very close to 100%. now, you can get some of those to run on linux, but that's gonna take some time and work, if it will work at all.
3. people are very much used to the windows UI. people don't want to have to get used to something new. i personally run both linux and windows on my computer, but i am usually on windows as that is where all my stuff is. 90% of the programs i use don't have a linux equivilent (mostly games)
[nitpick]
oh, and about that "wearing properly-warm clothing" bit. that has little to do with catch the flu or colds. the reason why cold and flu rates jump in the winter is everyone is indoors clustered together and the virus can spread much more easily.
[/nitpick]