Bittorrent Creator A Digital Pirate? 386
Alex_Ionescu writes "According to an article in Wired, the old webpage of Bram Cohen contained a manifesto stating that his goal for creating software was to 'Commit Digital Piracy'. Cohen argues that the quote is taken out of context and represents a parody. He argues having written it in 1999, 2 years before even coming up with Bittorrent. You can find the archived copy of his site at archive.org. From the article: "Cohen has never publicly encouraged piracy, and he has consistently maintained that he wrote BitTorrent as a legitimate file-distribution tool. That would seem to make him and his budding company, BitTorrent, safe under the Grokster ruling. But legal experts worry the newly discovered manifesto extolling 'digital piracy' could put him on less certain legal ground."
We are held to different standards? (Score:5, Insightful)
"The way they talked about intent is so vague that it can cause people to pay attention to things that they wrote years and years ago, having nothing to do with what they're doing right now," Cohen said.
If the President of the United States, the Governor of California, and various other politicians can hold political office regardless of what they did in their past (I won't even go into the difference between actually *doing* something illegal and just writing about it), then there should be no reason why this should even be a minor concern for Cohen or BitTorrent.
My views since 2002 have changed drastically on numerous subjects including ones I speak about in daily conversation, on Slashdot, and elsewhere. My views in 1999 were even more radically and misguided. I was in my early 20s, in college, and intoxicated (in some form) about 99% of the time. I certainly do not want to be held to what I said then and I certainly don't want to be held to what I say right now 5 years from now. Lots of life changing events occur in a short time now (moving to different areas of the country, encountering new people with different viewpoints, access to more and different information from many different angles).
It disappoints me that this is even an issue at all. If we are going to make a huge deal out this then I really think that we should have taken more time to consider what ass smacking and coke snorting does to our future. Yet, the problem is that people on that level get held to a different standard than the rest of us. Sadly, the levels are exactly the opposite of what they should be.
Watch what you print.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Current Internet younglings, take note. Be prepared to defend everything you ever put on a web page. I still cringe when I read some of the stuff I posted 10 years ago...
Willie
Screwed or not . . . doesn't matter (Score:5, Insightful)
Go ahead, RIAA / MPAA . . . shut down BitTorrent. It doesn't matter, 'cuz in less than a week, a better, more efficient and more anonymous P2P tech will get adopted.
They just don't get it, or are unwilling to concede that they get it -- the genie is out of the bottle, forever.
So what (Score:5, Insightful)
>(...) written it in 1999
My first thought was "so what".
I said a lot of things 6 years ago that I disagree with today.
What, aren't we allowed to state our opinions anymore without having the fear of being haunted by the past?
cleaner than a politician's past (Score:5, Insightful)
And yet, look at the pasts of our political leaders. Look at the pasts of our corporate masters. Look at the reprehensible things which are all shrugged off as "well, those times were different."
Re:We are held to different standards? (Score:5, Insightful)
Arguably, there's nothing preventing Mr. Cohen from continuing his work. And in fact, it's still likely that a court would find in his favor considering the materials that have been published relevant to the case. (Which is to say, any and all promotional materials about BitTorrent.) The key is that Mr. Cohen is now a public figure, and just like Presidents and Senators who get their pasts drug out as a "reward" for being in the public eye, journalists are also dragging out Mr. Cohen's past.
Just sit tight. This entire thing will blow over and life will be fine and dandy again. Unfortunately, Mr. Cohen will need to stay on his guard about what he says or does, because there are quite a few people who'd like to see him shut down even though a lot of us users DO use BT for legal purposes.
Stigma of accusation (Score:3, Insightful)
People make mistakes (Score:2, Insightful)
I hope it's also OK to just admit that you were naive and wrong. You are allowed to learn new things in ten years, and change your opinions. At least I would hope so.
Stated Intent (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is not to say that someone might try to use it against him, of course; it's just that the relevant facts in this case are miles removed from those in the Grokster case.
Re:Screwed or not . . . doesn't matter (Score:3, Insightful)
They don't need to understand or even pretend to understand. They have already proven that by doing what they do they can curb piracy and turn it into a profit.
What they don't understand is that they are just going to continue to push it further and further underground out of their reach. While mom, pop, and grandmom won't get into a civil suit with them they will find themselves scratching their heads wondering why all the traffic is encrypted.
They don't care about the small percentage of people getting access to free stuff. They care about the masses doing it and making it known to 100% of the population.
Re:Expect an escalation in the war... (Score:1, Insightful)
If his personal issues and the software he wrote were to be correlated as one, in a court of law, then god save my employer, as they are to have a rude awakening when they realize that all their products were made in part by someone that had "illegal aspirations"!!!!
Re:So what (Score:4, Insightful)
For the majority of us, this is the case. However, when someone comes or is brought into the public spotlight, that light becomes very narrowly focused.
Through the years there have been uncounted examples of public figures and politicians that have had their careers cut short because someone with a diametrically opposed agenda when searching for something to use against them. If you look hard enough, you'll find something to use against all of us.
In most cases, it seems, most of these seemingly innocuous comments are racially or politically motivated. Someone once had negative feelings toward a particular race (and made those feelings public) or perhaps supported a particular cause that was different than the cause de jure. Whether that person's comments were made as a joke or he/she has simply changed their attitude toward a cause, someone will use those past comments against him.
I have no idea if Cohen actually meant these comments in jest or as satirical comment, but you can rest (un)assured) that they will be used against him.
Re:Bram is screwed (Score:2, Insightful)
Just look at the success stories of file sharing technologies that tried to monitor the content being traded. Napster....ohh wait, nevermind.
Re:We are held to different standards? (Score:2, Insightful)
Soon people will be afraid to even speak for fear of being locked up... remember when people used to laugh about the old USSR and how people there would be locked up for speaking about something, remember nazi germany when neighbours would just "vanish" overnight, never to be seen again. American citizens, this is why the rest of the world has problems with your country. Go on, mod me a troll, but you know... its really true.
Re:We are held to different standards? (Score:3, Insightful)
But von Lohmann said if the Motion Picture Association of America wanted to go after Cohen, it would have done it a long time ago.
But it looks perfectly in line with the current 'bittorrent is evil' campaign. Isn't this a perfect way to spread FUD about bittorent?
Huh? (Score:1, Insightful)
Its troubling that people out there don't understand basic concepts about the US government.
Why must everything be written for idiots? (Score:3, Insightful)
No one has a sense of humor?
No one can get subtlety?
Must every word we write be played back in monotone, completely out of context, character, to see if it can be used against us?
Anyone who understands hacker culture, or Bram's personality, would read that and laugh.
God, I probably have something just as ridiculous saved somewhere. In fact, I know I do, and I know someone else got ahold of it and spruced it up with Photoshop and made it look like a piece of communist propaganda that I'm just about ready to print out a million copies of. I come across it every so often and laugh, and anyone who knows me would laugh if they saw it.
And a court would say that clearly this is the mind of a terrorist.
Fuck.
No freedom without PERSONAL responsibility (Score:5, Insightful)
People use software to perform illegal acts.
Smith and Wesson produces guns.(Without illegal. intent.)
People use guns to perform illegal acts.
GM produces cars. (Without illegal. intent.)
People use cars to perform illegal acts.
Why is it the leadership that the people have selected to run our country seems to be forgetting that PEOPLE PERFORM ILLEGAL ACTS.
Not software
Not guns
Not cars
Not Corporations
PEOPLE.
It's time the Judicial system starting hold PEOPLE accountable for what they do not the item they used to do it.
Welcome to America, everyday closer to a Socialist Republic.
Slashdot "pro-tip": (Score:4, Insightful)
Advanced version: Make the implication that the hypothetical person you've described speaks for the readers of Slashdot. Since mysteriously enough pretty much everyone who reads slashdot seems to hate it, this will bestow you with instant crowd appeal!
Re:We are held to different standards? (Score:5, Insightful)
He should just say it was a typo and he meant digital privacy
I may be missing something here but what does it matter what he said? Bittorrent is what it is independently of his expressed beliefs. Is he going to be prosecuted for what he did or what he thought?
It matters what he said because... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you kill someone by hitting them with your car, you might get 200 days in jail. If you say outright that you meant to kill them purposefully, that's 50 years.
The only difference there is speech - speech that reveals intent.
If Cohen's intent is to facilitate widescale piracy, then he might be guilty of something. This might prove his intent (or, it might not). That's why this matters.
Only in America... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No freedom without PERSONAL responsibility (Score:5, Insightful)
See the difference?
Four reasons why I agree with parent (Score:3, Insightful)
I love my country; I love what America stands for.
However, the direction we (speaking from a US-centric position) are going is not very wise, and so I would have to agree with you--it is true. Now, I'm probably going to be modded down for what I am about to say, but I think that a lot of it is relevant to this case. Let's review a few things that have happened in the passed year or less that is dangerous to the USA and her allies.
1) The Schiavo case. It's insignificant to most
This isn't to say that the Schiavo case is even remotely similar. However, it has certainly opened a pandora's box that I think has the potential to be very bad.
2) New London, Connecticut property seizures. While the Fifth Amendment allows government to seize property "for public use," it does not allow for private property to be seized and granted to other private property owners--not until now. In today's USA, property (read: wealth) redistribution can legally occur upwards. What this means is that wealthier entities can now seize the property of less wealthy entities and the action is sanctioned by the government. God help you if you live on ocean front property or other "prime real estate" locations.
3) Chip Salzenberg has a legal problem [slashdot.org] along similar lines. Admittedly, he shouldn't have threatened legal action against the company--big mistake--but his property was unjustly seized (IMO) based upon fraudulent claims. I would think this should be a violation of the Fourth Amendment, particularly if the company were responsible for forging documents (I don't know their side of the story, so my opinion on this is likely to change).
And now...
4) Something written, potentially in jest and very likely taken out of context, can affect the outcome of a legal battle years and years down the road? The ramifications of this are absurd--does this imply that, if an ex of mine said "I wish you'd just die" and I die ten years down the road, my parents would be able to file suit against her in a potential murder case? Come on. I realize this is incredibly out of context, but frankly, given the idiotic nature of recent rulings, I can't say as I would be surprised.
So in short, I would agree. The US has problems--big problems. Perhaps I'm overreacting, perhaps I'm reading too far into this mess, but let's be honest here. The rest of the world is scratching its head after the last week's news coming out of the USA thinking we've lost our marbles. "Seizing private property and awarding it to a company? What is WRONG with the Americans?"
It's our courts. The people can't vote on issues like this--they are decided by people who are appointed. Our legal system has its benefits, but in recent months, I'm begining to wonder if its design isn't almost entirely broken. Or may we're dragging too many decisions into the courts when they should be decided by a vote at the community level?
Re:No freedom without PERSONAL responsibility (Score:2, Insightful)
We are moving to Socialism with programs like:
Free medical care (paid by the government with taxpayer money.)
Welfare checks(paid by the government with taxpayer money.)
Free housing(paid for by the government with taxpayer money.)
Each "government sponsored" program that is started to "help the poor" simply takes money from the middle and upper class taxpayer and gives it to those in the lower class that want it (Which doesn't bring the lower up only the upper down). Since these are government programs they are easy to manipulate and exploit meaning that those that are the least honest get the most from them.
So the USA is moving from a Republic to a Socialist Republic.
What would a jury do? (Score:3, Insightful)
That is part of why innocent people get convicted and the court system fails so much.
Doing your part as a citizen for a few days is more important than the next 10K lines of code you'll write, for sure.
When all the courts have for a jury pool is whoever is left after people have weasel out, it is no wonder things go the way they do.
We need techie on juries. Else if you go to court, you won't have a jury of your peers, you'll have a jury of former jocks, bullies, preppies and cheerleaders.
That's why you have a much better chance if you are accused of a non-techie crime - since most technical issues are beyond most jurors.
Re:We are held to different standards? (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you're a few years behind. People DO get locked up, vanish, and persecuted in the United States because of their use of Constitutional Rights in this country.
For the past year now, I have personally been fighting against the State of Wyoming. Last summer the State kidnapped our children when I had a heart attack. Their main focal point against me was that I held Libertarian veiws, advocated free software (and was thus a violator of federal laws such as the DMCA because I enticed others to commit piracy), they claimed that I was anti-government and anarchist because I enticed people to forcibly demand and enforce their 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 9th, and 14th Amendment Rights against State organizations (such as police on private property without a warrant or due cause, and the C.P.S.), then they blatantly violated my five year old's rights by questioning and coercing her to make recorded statements WITHOUT her ad litem's knowledge, approval, nor presence. (Eventhough, all she would tell them, apparently, was that they were bad people and she wasn't gonna talk to them.)
This all came about because as soon as I came to Wyoming, I began advocating absolute and complete expression and personal enforcement of civil rights (much like I did in California where I had come from). This caused a case load of problems with the DFS and CPS in our area, as many of the people I would talk to were being harrassed by these organizations, and I advised them on Federal agencies that could intervene and investigate the State's activities.
When they came after my family I fought tooth and nail with the prime focus on civil rights. In the past year, 49 criminal charges have been discharged with prejudice, and 13 civil suits had been dismissed, and the State is now out of ammunition, and we still have the ability to sue the State, county and city on over 65 total civil charges, and have more than 50 pages of criminal violations documented ready for submission to the proper federal channels.
The point is: PEOPLE DO NOT FIGHT! They sit back and wallow in self-pity, expecting everyone else to feel sorry for them and do something about it! When you rock the boat in the political arena, expect members of that arena to come after you. And, it is sad that so many people STILL refuse to accept the fact that large corporations ARE a significant part of the political arena. If you rock the financial boat of any big corporation, you have rocked the political boat as well. And the corruption that persists in our government is enough to twist and turn any piece of law to their convenience.
The only way to fight corrupt use of poitical power like this is to remove those corruptions from power. Yet, how many of you even went to the polls last election? And yet you bitch about how corrupt the government is and how they keep stripping rights and now you have to become fearful to write software...
The only ones to blame are yourselves. If there are enough people on even this one site that can crash a mega-server in a moment's notice, imagine what you could do in the political arena if you are forceful about it and focus the political clout you have here, when one person was able to overcome the bruit force of a State. Stop typing and bitching and do something for a change!
Leave the guy alone (Score:3, Insightful)
His software is a significant step forward in helping to balance information load-sharing. Distribution of information will never move forward if big business is allowed to clamp down on clever individuals.
There's my rant.