HP Announces National Id System Built on .NET 393
Anonymous Coward writes "Yahoo is running a story about HP's national ID plan, 'The need to securely identify people moving across national and international borders has never been more important than it is today,' said Jim Ganthier, worldwide leader, Defense, Intelligence and Public Safety, HP. 'HP and Microsoft are working together to provide government agencies the ability to access the integrated data streams needed to securely identify people both in the physical and virtual worlds.'"
I'm pretty torn about this (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I'm pretty torn about this (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I'm pretty torn about this (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I'm pretty torn about this (Score:2)
Re:I'm pretty torn about this (Score:2)
Re:I'm pretty torn about this (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, that's okay. You won't have to worry about that.
With a /. UID that low, your hand's gonna start flashing red any second now.
Re:I'm pretty torn about this (Score:2)
No problems there either; since it's a
Re:I'm pretty torn about this (Score:2)
Re:I'm pretty torn about this (Score:2)
Re:I'm pretty torn about this (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I'm pretty torn about this (Score:3, Insightful)
Why are you upset?
If it's being done by HP in
We're safe! The only way we could be safer is if it was being done by Microsoft in
Re:I'm pretty torn about this (Score:3, Insightful)
Surely that proves
Microsoft: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Microsoft: (Score:5, Insightful)
Are HP completely braindead?
If HP were farmers: "HP announces alliance with Lions, Jackals and Wolves to mind sheep & lambs".
Re:Microsoft: (Score:3, Funny)
You say insecure like it's a bad thing. I happen to have it on good authority that insecure is about to be the next big cool buzzword.
Bobby: Hey, it says here on this review that this software is really insecure.
James: So, we don't wanna go with that right?
Tim: Are you kidding? They're INsecure. That's gotta be like, what, THOUSANDS of times better than just 'secure.'
Bobby: Clerk? We'll take ten thousand units.
Oracle (Score:2, Interesting)
feds for free for a national ID system, you have to wonder what Microsoft's price was. Clearly there's some payoff; but my bet is that it's to some special interests (individuals, or the states of specific lobbiests) and the taxpayer'll get screwed.
Re:Oracle (Score:2)
Perhaps Microsoft technologies are just more scalable and secure than Oracle, so that's why they cost more?
Re:Oracle (Score:2)
.Net? (Score:2)
They clearly want a piece of the pie. (Score:5, Informative)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4590817.st
Re:They clearly want a piece of the pie. (Score:5, Interesting)
The LSE study also raised the issue of people who are against ID cards, called "refuseniks". It said: "The costs of handling this group will be substantial".
Looks like it's possible for the general public to do something about this one. Enough noise about it and it'll be too expensive and political suicide. The use of the word 'handling' is quite disturbing though.
Given our government's total incompetence at handling things like this, I'd imagine it will end up costing even more if implemented.
Queue blocking (Score:2)
The biometric readers will be fairly expensive and will require trained operators so there won't be all that many of them at any one registration point.
Who pays? (Score:2)
The minority rules OK! (Score:4, Interesting)
Step 1: So, the first thing you do in a "democracy" to reduce individual liberty *and* get them to pay for it is take advantage of a medieval electoral system which gives a 1/3 minority an absolute majority in the parliament.
Step 2: Then you use that parliamentary majority to push just about any legislation you like through the house.
Step 3: Profit!
Good eh?
Re:The minority rules OK! (Score:3, Informative)
50% of the vote has no significance in country with more than 2 parties. No party has won a UK election with more that 50% of the vote since 1931. Criticising this particular government for not having a majority of the vote thus makes no sense.
Re:Who pays? (Score:5, Informative)
The Real ID Act was cleverly attached by its author, Rep. Sensenbrenner (R-WI) [house.gov], as a rider to a completely unrelated appropriations measure for troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Since voting against appropriations for troops is unAmerican, the bill along with its Orwellian rider passed easily (House 368-58, Senate 100-0).
Note that the rider specifies no funding. The federal ID card is left as an unfunded mandate for states to implement on their own budgets, with the usual extraconstitutional trick of threatening to withhold federal highway funds from states that fail to enact supporting state legislation. In practical terms, aside from being a fascistic federal power grab, this is a really expensive measure for the states. Unfortunately Real ID enjoys some myopic political support because it will stick it to illegal aliens. (And anyone seeking asylum, political or otherwise.) People don't realize the larger implications of a national ID card that one is forced to carry, and we just got them with hardly any public debate at all: [mediamatters.org]
The pie will not be big. (Score:2)
Free software... Consultancy? (Score:2)
Oh, well then... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Oh, well then... (Score:2)
He is your friend.
Resistance is futile!
Re:Oh, well then... (Score:2)
I wonder if HP was one of the ones (Score:2)
Whoever would have thought (Score:3, Funny)
Gee, I feel more secure already.
.NET + HP + National ID (Score:5, Funny)
What could possibly go wrong? (Score:5, Insightful)
They make the system just insecure enough to let hackers get in, to let disasters strike. They use that as justification for more intrusive forms of government control.
Is it possible that governments aim here is not to make a system that is unhackable? Maybe they want it to fail, as a prelude to enslavement?
This is why computers suck. They will no longer be an aide to your life, no longer making life simpler and easier. Computers will now be used to track you, identify you. You are already probably in some government index with a score of how much of a threat you are. Check out Lenin from the library, your score goes up. Join the wrong chats, your score goes up.
Remember, this is the same government that tapped the phones of the Black Panthers in the 1960's, arrested innocent people, killed innocent people, overthrew the democratically elected president of Chile. Our government stinks with evil.
Re:What could possibly go wrong? (Score:2)
GWB is in power since the 1960's?
Re:What could possibly go wrong? (Score:2)
Not GWB, but a Bush. :-)
Greed affects all people the same way. Power will currupt. The 3000 square foot house seems small compared with the new 4500 square foot house next door. Yet, somehow, the people in the 1960's seems to live very comfortably and happily in 1000 square foot homes. Power works much in the same way.
The problem is greed becomes institutionalized within families. A family such as the Bush family, they need power to hide what they have done in
evil government (Score:3, Insightful)
Is this the same government that helped stop Fascism, stopped Soviet Communism, and gave the world the Internet, or is it a wholly different government? Is it the government that sat by while the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan? Is it the same government that in the 1970s let inflation run rampant in the United States, causing the standard of living here and around the globe to stagnate, or is it the one that fostered a huge technology and economic boom through more open
If 9/11 happens again... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:If 9/11 happens again... (Score:4, Funny)
The bid from Real to host the system was rejected.
Please wait, connecting to ident server.
Husgaard(858362) is a confirmed
valid citizen
dumb question but... (Score:5, Insightful)
god forbid there ever be something like code red or equivalent that hits this system, because the resulting sound will be that of 280 odd million people being simultaneously sodomized by very large cacti.
Re:dumb question but... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:dumb question but... (Score:2)
As one of those 280-odd million, I sincerely hope you are speaking metaphorically.
No need to worry (Score:5, Funny)
-----
Name: Richard Kniefle
Citizen Location: San Francisco, CA
Occupation: Hospital Records Manager
SSN: 123-12-1234
DOB: 04-23-59
Political Affiliation: Liberal Democrat
Status: Citizen of Concern
Church Affiliation: None
Re:No need to worry (Score:3, Funny)
It appears as though your
Please update to the latest version immediately to rectify this issue.
I have attached the changelog for your information.
Sincerely
HP Dev labs
--------- Attachment: changelog.txt
v1.02 : gb : 192.168.0.3 : Missed off extra info fields, Gender, Sexual Orientation, Credit Card Number and Car Reg #. Update for fix
What happened to privacy? (Score:5, Interesting)
I would feel far better about this if;
a) the bad guys would play by the rules and register for their identity cards just like us law-abiding citizens and...
b) We did not have such a long history of government abusing power that it takes.
It may be a more complex world now, but, because of that, privacy should be even more valuable and preserved...rather than being stripped away.
While there is no current indications that this ID card will become a required, internal passport, there is a VERY good chance it will be...which undercuts one of the mainstays of American life - that of unfettered travel throughout the country. It could, alas, lead to a totalitarian state on a VERY easy road. Read Lewis Sinclair's "It Can't Happen Here", and see if you see any parallels between HIS thesis and OUR reality today!
On top of that, I have little confidence in the government or large organizations to keep accurate enough records to make this workable. So far, the track record is not great.
Regards
Dave Mundt
Re:What happened to privacy? (Score:2)
The problem really is that once you actually find out that a suicide bomber means trouble, it's too late, because then he's already dead. The fact that you could find an ID card afterwards doesn't make a difference anymore.
So there's really no reason why you should feel safer j
Marketspeak Mumbo Jumbo (Score:3, Informative)
Wow, just what did that press release say beyond "we're going to help create a national ID using Microsoft .net"??? A whole lot of veribiage and redundant terminology. For example:
In this system... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:In this system... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:In this system... (Score:2)
fuck off (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't care if I get arrested 100 times over for refusing to carry an ID card, it'll be worth it.
Good luck. (Score:2)
You will get detained once... And if you tell them to "FO" while in detention, you can be assured it wont happen again as you wont get released.
Legal? no.. but when you cant even call an attorney there isnt much you can do.
Even if they do release you eventually, they can still ruin you. No job, no credit, no house, no driving..
Re:fuck off (Score:2)
Re:fuck off (Score:2)
Re:fuck off (Score:2)
You left of the GP's post's phrase "which is this important" (or something like that). Amazon.com is nowhere near as important as what is at stake here. Also, I highly doubt airlines and banks use Windows for their truly mission-critical apps, like keeping planes in the sky and money flowing through the wires. Hell, I wouldn't even trust Mac OS X or Linux in situations like those (typing this on a
Oh man... (Score:4, Funny)
Lets review (Score:3, Insightful)
Libraries are now requiring finger prints.
Chicago installed 3000 camera's.
And now this...
I just have one question. Did ANYONE read the patriot act?
What if I want to read a book by Lenin, and not let anyone know that I have read his book? It seems that will be more difficult to do in the future. If I read it at the library, they have my fingerprint scan. If I buy it from the downtown borders, the police camera can look inside to see what books I have. If I somehow sneak the book home, and read it, then want to discuss it on the internet, they can find me.
This reminds me of Ray Bradbury, only far more sinister, with a splash of Orwell tossed in. My dear God, how dumb is the american populace? Has the smartest 5%, the ones that run the entertainment industries, the news, the companies, has the smartest 5% of the people sold their souls for more money?
We have all been enslaved.
Re:Lets review (Score:2)
teach american exceptionalism
teach propaganda
pass draconian laws
???
profit
Re:Lets review (Score:2)
Re:Lets review (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course. The degradation of Western society is led by greed, not morals. And the US leads the charge. Freedom? Just a buzzword now. The hippies had it right in the 60s-70s, the corporations are taking over, they saw it for what it was. Every ill Western society suffers is due to greed and avarice.
Family values? Nonexistant. Why? Western society (read greed) dictates both parents must work, JUST TO PAY THE BILLS. So who's at home with junior, nurturing him/her? No one, or the local day care center, who's responsibility is to make sure these kids behave, but not nurture. Parents have abdicated their responsibility to their children because our greedy society dictates it must be so.
When are Westerners going to realize that people, and family, are far more important than The Bottom Line? Hope its soon, or humanity on the whole is doomed.
RE: not exactly (Score:3, Insightful)
IMHO, we do an awful lot of worshipping the 60's that's unwarranted. Flower children, hipppies, etc. etc. The fact is, most of the people growing up in the 60's doing their psychadelic drugs, having sex with anyone willing, and protesting Vietnam ended up tightly wrapped up in "corporate America" aft
Re:Lets review (Score:2)
Orwell was an optimist.
hrm (Score:2)
A few corrections to the quote in TFT (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:A few corrections to the quote in TFT (Score:2)
I think this hit the nail on the head.
The rest of it makes it seem like there is a definite malice behind the initiative. I do not see it that way. This is a multi-billion
Re:A few corrections to the quote in TFT (Score:2)
In other words proof of citizenship required for interstate travel. Papers please.
Yeah, okay... (Score:2)
Yeah, except to Hitler, he seemed pretty adamant about tracking where the Jews came and went.
Godwin's Law (Score:2)
Godwin's Law [wikipedia.org]
Meme, Counter-meme [wired.com]
How to post about Nazis and get away with it - the Godwin's Law FAQ [faqs.org]
Re:Godwin's Law (Score:2)
Bit ironic... (Score:2)
When you do others wrong... (Score:2)
Historical Analysis (Score:3, Insightful)
Hitler needed an ID system. IBM was the ideal partner for them during the Holocaust. Perfect for tracking victims.
Bush needs and ID system. HP is the ideal partner for them during the Crusades 2.0. Perfect for tracking non christians.
history does always repeat itself.... sadly.
what a relief! (Score:2)
But seriously. National ID? What part of 1984 [online-literature.com] don't you guys understand? That book was even part of our school curriculum...
Consequences... (Score:2)
Incognito ergo sum. - Descartes
What's so bad about this? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What's so bad about this? (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, just because you work for a company does not mean that you have to be blind to the security issues that do and may exist in a particular product.
Re:What's so bad about this? (Score:2, Insightful)
Nothing new... (Score:2)
Considering that the M$ environment is under constant pressure from various threats I would like to call the selection of that environment risky, and almost stupid. By selecting other environments you would be running the risk of being more dependent on a few persons with that particular competence. On the other hand the number of persons competent enough to cause t
The need to reject baseless assumptions... (Score:3, Insightful)
If *anything* the lesson of 9/11 should have been that identification is not effective nor relevant to certain types of security sitautions, like air travel.
Instead, the assumption stands that identification is essential, but, in regards to 9/11, it was somehow lacking, either in format (see REAL ID act) or application.
Bad security is built around bad assumptions. Remove the bad assumptions and rebuild the security framework.
Based on the vast quantity of individuals flying, and the amazing sum of variables, all of which indicate little about the potential danger of the passenger, a defense could be made that we would be safer building a security system around nameless tickets.
Well ... (Score:2)
If I were the president... (Score:2)
BULLSH1T (Score:2)
Or, what if many countries of the world get together and implement a compatible system that allows them to track people's identities across all those countries. Is that going to help fight terrorism? Or are t
Re:Security? (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe, maybe not, it depends on how their platform works. But the same can of course be said with any other API an application may use. Not sure what you're trying to say -- that these important systems should always be built from scratch? But the downside of that is you'd rely on 100% homebrewn code that hasn't been tested in production ready systems since before.
Re:Security? (Score:2)
Re:Security? (Score:2)
Yes, and worse, they can have you killed (Score:5, Insightful)
If we have a system where everyone is tracked, through databases, camera's, RFID in cars, fingerprints in libraries, and a future dna database, think about the abuse?
Someone hacks the government servers, and puts in data, data that says you are a terrorist, a dangerous terrorist with knowledge of how to build bombs.
You, of course, are just an avarage joe who is walking to the local park to read Invisible Man. Next thing you know, a van hits you on the sidewalk, and you're dead. The driver is not just some old man who lost control. He is an old man who appears to have lost control.
I can't help but wonder, if Joe Mccarthy was alive, if Bush would nominate him to be Director of Homeland Security? The technology we have today is what he was missing to acomplish his goals. If he had todays technology, he could have killed the people who complained, before they got organized. Just find out who is reading the "banned" books, and execute them. Of course, the USA will never pull a book off a library shelf. They will just monitor who reads it.
Re:Yes, and worse, they can have you killed (Score:5, Insightful)
You, of course, are just an avarage joe...
The danger is not to the average Joe (maybe the average Joe for whom a hacker has a grudge perhaps) but the real danger is to those people who are considered a threat by those who officially/legally control the database.
It is far more likely that we will see such a database used to harass the political opposition (we've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence of that with the no-fly list already). We are also likely to see it used to benefit the "friends" (aka campaign contributors) of the database controllers - corporate whistleblowers for example.
A national ID system is one of the most un-American things to arise from the 9-11 kneejerkers. The only possible benefit is that it will catch stupid terrorists - the ones not smart enough to buy a counterfeit ID or bribe the right underpaid clerk. Meanwhile it is a huge sacrifice of freedom (you know, one of those principles this country was founded on) that will lead to further centralization of power, increased corruption and of course a huge tax bill to pay for the boondoggle.
Re:Yes, and worse, they can have you killed (Score:2)
Maybe it's time we give up on the adjective "American" in this sense. Apparently most of the things that used to be called "un-American" are now being put forward as the proper American way of thinking. Not to put too fine a point on it, which is more American -- a pioneer family crossing the prairie in a covered wagon, or thousands of families zoning out in unison in front of the TV showing American Idol?
Re:Yes, and worse, they can have you killed (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't wonder. You know. Large swaths of the modern conservative movement have already, in the real non-hypothetical world, been trying to whitewash McCarthy and repaint him as an honest hero who was right about everything and who was only discredited because of a smear campaign by the evil Liberals, who did this because they hated America and wanted the Communists to destroy it. Have you ever
Re:Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Re:You can identify people .. so what? (Score:2)
I guess he just looked for your belly button, so he knew you are not a golem
Re:Like it ot not, (Score:2)
Get a f*cking clue, like it or not,
Re:Like it ot not, (Score:5, Insightful)
What kind of complete moron uses "Rapid Application Development" to implement something as dangerous as a national ID system?
Re:It depends on what the term RAD means to you (Score:2, Insightful)
Statistics based on released Secunia advisories since 2003. Choose below to see statistics based on different criteria.
Please Note. The statistics below should not be used for a direct comparison of how secure two different products are. This is partly due to the fact that a Secunia advisory often cover multiple vulnerabilities. Also certain operating systems bundle a very large number of software packages and are therefore affec
No, YOU are clueless (Score:2)
And try to write a large (by large I mean more than 200K lines of code), componentized, interoperable, maintainable system in Perl or Python and see how that scales for you.
You should have started with
Re:The scum in Redmond (Score:2)
So don't despair - there is some impact. Microsoft is feeling the heat from its employees over all these issues. And I'm no millionaire, either - I live off my income.
Re:The scum in Redmond (Score:2)
It's like peak oil - it's easy to complain about how we're going to see oil prices skyrocket because we don't reduce our use, but still drive a car around. It doesn't help anything. It's easy to complain about wasting energy without using CF bulbs where you can. Talk is cheap.
What's really amazing is how many Slashdot posters (including myself) are running on Windows. I really look