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What Would You Ask For in Copyright Law? 659

BlastM asks: "The Australian Attorney General's Department, as reported recently on Slashdot, is accepting public input in a review of fair use exceptions (or lack thereof) in our copyright laws. Being an Australian citizen, I'll be directly affected by any reforms that are made, and under the Copyright Act in it's current form it's hard to avoid breaking the law nearly every day, whether format shifting music, recording broadcast TV shows or sharing movies via P2P or with friends. The question I pose to the freethinking minds, here: What fair use rights should be defined under copyright law? Is the use of a static, defined set of rights too restrictive? What's right/wrong with the copyright laws where you live?"
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What Would You Ask For in Copyright Law?

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  • 5 years (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Pope Benedict XVI ( 881674 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:12PM (#12492606) Journal
    Copyright was originally 14 years, renewable once. But that was back before movies, radio, and TV. Typesetting was done by hand, books were distributed by horse-drawn carts. In this day and age 5 years is more than enough time to display your work and make a tidy profit.
    • Re:5 years (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Timesprout ( 579035 )
      Would you say then then GPL should be replaced on code more than 5 years old and a do as you please license attached?
      • Re:5 years (Score:2, Insightful)

        Yes. After 5 years everything should revert to the public domain.
        • Re:5 years (Score:2, Insightful)

          by katz ( 36161 )
          And how are you going to force it out of a company to public domain their source code? It's not a book where everything is laid out in front of you; it's a piece of compiled code.
          • Re:5 years (Score:2, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward
            Simple - manadatory registration.

            If you want copyright protection on the binary, you have to reveal the source code.
          • Re:5 years (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Sheetrock ( 152993 )
            If you expect copyright protection on binaries in a reformed copyright system you submit your source code to the Library of Congress or local equivalent.

            Slashdot requires you to wait 2 minutes between each successful posting of a comment to allow everyone a fair chance at posting a comment. It's been 1 minute since you last successfully posted a comment Chances are, you're behind a firewall or proxy, or clicked the Back button to accidentally reuse a form. Please try again. If the problem persists, and

          • Re:5 years (Score:5, Insightful)

            by cpt kangarooski ( 3773 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:34PM (#12492834) Homepage
            Require it as a condition of getting a copyright to begin with.

            You can't get a patent without disclosing the workings of your invention in a manner that a person having ordinary skill in that field can understand.

            And copyright traditionally has required deposit of best copies, i.e. high quality copies placed into government libraries so that they, at least, can preserve the work and act as a seed from which more copies could later be made. (It also helped make the Library of Congress the best library in the world)

            Requiring people applying for a copyright on software to comment their code sufficiently that an ordinarily skilled programmer can understand it, and to deposit that source as well as whatever other information is needed to produce the working binaries doesn't seem like a tough thing. People still can't copy it during the term -- but they can study it to learn from it, which is a good thing in the meantime.

            It invalidates trade secrets within the work, but this is standard practice in the patent field, and it's not the end of the world.

            Plus, there's always the option for developers of not getting a copyright at all, but then they'd lack many legal protections which would probably discourage this. We might further discourage it by having the government fund projects to break DRM (which also should be prohibited as a condition of copyright).
            • Re:5 years (Score:3, Interesting)

              by Anonymous Coward
              How exactly is the Library of Congress "the best library in the world"? Seriously - I want you to justify that claim.

              It isn't the biggest, it has 128m items, British has 150m - check the websites. Does it have the best librarians or something? Best coffee machines, perhaps?

              What makes it the best library in the world? Please reply, I genuinely want to know what makes you think that.
              • Re:5 years (Score:3, Informative)

                by baronben ( 322394 )
                Well, its one of the most innovative. If you've ever been in a college library, than you've used the Congressional Catalogue System (A-Z classification), which is much better for large collections than the Dewey systems (0-999 system). Its also at the forefront of digital collections, and it ought to be, as the world's fastest growing library. That, and their reference librarians are damn good. It also has the world's largest collection of maps and sound recordings. Lets not also forget that the British Mus
      • Re:5 years (Score:2, Insightful)

        by stecoop ( 759508 )
        That is interesting. I read your post wrong the first time. I read: What if GPL Code lost its license after 5 years and you could then do whatever you want with it. Which seems only fair that it should go both ways?
        • Re:5 years (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Sheetrock ( 152993 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:22PM (#12492708) Homepage Journal
          I fail to see why this would be a problem. Five years is a long time in the computer industry, and both open and closed source models would benefit from having prior knowledge or code unlocked and usable to build upon.

          As things are now, we reinvent the wheel way too much because of the way Intellectual Property is implemented. It hinders progress and innovation.

    • Re:5 years (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nizo ( 81281 ) * on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:16PM (#12492638) Homepage Journal
      Or how about 10 years or X millions of dollars profits, whichever comes first. That means the holder still makes a pile of money, but eventually sooner or later the work will make it into the public domain so it can be enjoyed by all.
      • Re:5 years (Score:5, Insightful)

        by nlinecomputers ( 602059 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:28PM (#12492769)
        A time limit I'll except but I refuse to have some buracratic ninny tell me how much I can make. For example a million dollars isn't what it use to be. Having a set limit of cash will invite everyone to try and correct it every few years.

        If your product is so good that you make a billion, great! If you only make a $1.50 that's just too bad. The market will tell you if you made enough or not given a set time frame. The problem with Copyrights now is that we no longer have a time frame anymore. They are forever so long as they are allowed to change the laws every time Mickey Mouse comes up for release to the public domain.

        The biggest problems with our Copyright laws is that we keep changing 'em.
        • Thats where the "whichever comes first" part comes into play. Ten years no matter what you make it is public domain. However if you make a bazillion dollars with, say, a new book in the first two years, then it goes into the public domain. You could still feel free to keep selling it (and maybe that could be a clause; you have exclusive rights to sell it, but it can be given away for free by anyone) but it would still be in the public domain.
          • Re:5 years (Score:3, Insightful)

            I understood you the first time. I just don't agree with it. Who are you to tell the world at what point the change over occurs? Who decides this? And what method do you use to decide it?

            Is one dollar enough? A million, a billion? hmm. And what If I am in a third world nation? A million dollars is an insane amount oversees yet is a modest amount today in the US. Cash limits are pointless what if inflation happens in the third year of your copyright? What is deflation happens?
        • Re:5 years (Score:4, Insightful)

          by swillden ( 191260 ) * <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @10:55PM (#12495231) Journal

          They are forever so long as they are allowed to change the laws every time Mickey Mouse comes up for release to the public domain.

          And I would argue that they're "forever" so long as they're long enough that the average person will never see a copyright expire on a work that they saw created.

          Copyright terms are now so long that the average person doesn't know they do expire. Many people think that "Who own's the copyright on William Shakespeare's plays" is a sensible question. That's a very bad thing, because people who believe that copyrights are eternal are not likely to feel that copyrights provide them with much value, and are therefore not likely to feel obligated to abide by their restrictions.

          I think that if people realized that a movie that was just released would be in the public domain in 20 years, they would be more likely to understand that copyright is beneficial to the public, and should therefore be honored.

      • how about 10 years or X millions of dollars profits, whichever comes first.

        What you've done is cap the amount that a producer can get. Not a smart idea for big-ticket productions.

        What I think we're looking for is a way to take stuff to PD when the author has "made enough." A not unreasonable way to do that is to say that there's a point of diminishing returns where the time value of future sales is heading into the noise.

        Counter suggestion: 10 years minimum, then take it PD when the sales for the

      • 10 years or X millions of dollars profits
        Then it'll always be 10 years. I mean, how many artists have gotten screwed because the RIAA *somehow* didn't make any profits on that platinum album? Better to just set a time limit. 10 years is more than enough in a society where you can ship around the world in a week.
      • Re:5 years (Score:4, Interesting)

        by hackstraw ( 262471 ) * on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:48PM (#12492970)

        The after X millions is asking for trouble. Who is to determine what a "pile of money" is? How often does that need to be updated due to inflation or in reference to the "pile of money" that was invested in said copyright?

        My thoughts on copyright are it should not be transferable. Meaning that the creator is the soul owner of the copyright, not the record company or their family hundreds of years after the original creator is dead. I also believe that it should last the lifetime of the creator, but they can waive it and put their creation into the public domain at any time.

        The only problem is that copyright could then be circumvented via patents or trademarks or some other legal tricks. Although Walt Disney is dead. Even if the copyright were to disappear for Mickey Mouse, I doubt any Mickey Mouse cartoons would be able to be in the public domain due to trademarks on the Mickey Mouse name and image, so we are still stuck.
    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:21PM (#12492702)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • To all of this I would add, I would like to see a resolution like this: "Corporations, by definition possessing no intellect, cannot possess intellectual property."

        Yeah, seems catchy at first glance, but I guess some people who actually do have some intellect might kill you for that - because they could no longer WILLINGLY SELL their rights to corporations. If you were a succesful coder, wouldn't you really NEVER EVER regret having lost the possibility of selling your code to some corporation for an obsc
        • by grmoc ( 57943 )
          License it. You retain copyright, they get to exercize it, and the duration is still the same.

          I'm not arguing for either side here, just playing devil's advocate.
      • by argoff ( 142580 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @06:46PM (#12493472)

        Although when I'm feeling idealistic I like to declare that all copyright laws should be thrown out, I'm willing to take the pragmatic approach.

        I think the problem here is that the "pragmatic" approach here has already been tried 200 years ago, and it failed miserably just as society hit the information age. And that makes allot of sense. You can't go telling people that they have this "moral right" to restrict what people copy, and then expect them not to try and secure this "right" by using every resource they can to push it to the extremes.

        With regular physical property, you have natural limiting factors that limit those extremes, with copyrights you don't because they are not a natural law creation. Copyrights are simply people coercing limits on things that have no natural limit for the sake of greed and monopoly.

        If someone said "lets limit food to the 3rd world more than it already is because we want to get more profit" most people would see this as the pure evil that it is. But when they do the same thing with the worlds information, then oh my God - it's a RIGHT!?

        • I think the problem here is that the "pragmatic" approach here has already been tried 200 years ago, and it failed miserably just as society hit the information age.

          We probably wouldn't be in the information age yet without IP protection. Throw out Patents, Trademarks, and Copyright and you enter a very slow moving generic world. The implementation of the current system is too restrictive, but you don't have to scrap it completely.

          If someone said "lets limit food to the 3rd world more than it already
    • What happens if a person copyrights something that he does not have the capital to go-live in the first five years (which is a relatively short time frame)? Do they get screwed? Maybe five years in technology is a long time (i.e. Is counterstrike really gonna be that hot in five years?)....but this is a law that will affect other things such as books, music, etc.

      I kind of like "until the publishing author dies +10 years. If the author dies abruptly (i.e. 5 years after the copyright was made) then it i
      • Re:5 years (Score:5, Insightful)

        by cpt kangarooski ( 3773 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:52PM (#12493020) Homepage
        What happens if a person copyrights something that he does not have the capital to go-live in the first five years (which is a relatively short time frame)? Do they get screwed? Maybe five years in technology is a long time (i.e. Is counterstrike really gonna be that hot in five years?)....but this is a law that will affect other things such as books, music, etc.

        Why? I've been thinking 5 year terms from a more broadly defined publication, where the terms can be renewed in their last year, four times. (i.e. 25 year maximum) But no renewals for works consisting of, or to the degree that they consist of, software.

        We can optimize things for different kinds of works, you know. God knows, most of the statutory exemptions already only apply for particular kinds of subject matter already.

        What happens if a person copyrights something that he does not have the capital to go-live in the first five years

        Then I guess they won't bother. Right now the copyright system is just as uncaring towards people that need a few centuries or more. Who cares?

        We want to encourage the creation of works in order to benefit the public, and we want to get those works into the public domain as rapidly as possible, again to benefit the public.

        Whenever a work is not in the public domain, there is a cost to the public -- their liberty is restrained. This cost may be acceptable if the benefit is greater than the cost. But at a certain point, we get into the realm of diminishing returns. Eventually, the harm caused by having something copyrighted outweighs the benefit of having it exist in the first place.

        So look for how we can get the best deal for the public overall, rather than mindlessly trying to encourage creation (which, btw, doesn't keep increasing as terms do, and may even start going down, since established authors don't like competition)

        I kind of like "until the publishing author dies +10 years.

        I don't. That's too long and the length is highly unpredictable. Fixed spans are superior. And it should be the minimum length to get the greatest return in creation. Any longer is wasteful. Since virtually all profits from copyrighted works are made in the first days to months of publication, and virtually never beyond the first year, even very short terms will still result in lots of stimulus of creation. After all, that's where the money is, and copyright only deals with that one stimulus.

        If the author dies abruptly (i.e. 5 years after the copyright was made) then it is XX years for the survivors of the copyright" XX is a double digit number.

        Why do you care about them? Virtually no works have any economic value with regards to copyright anyway. Of the fraction of a percent that do, it's virtually all up front as mentioned. Only the teeniest tiniest few works have continuing value.

        For those works, the author is likely already quite wealthy (or had their chance), and could provide for their survivors. For most, a copyright won't help the survivors anyway, but still hurts the public.

        If you want to help survivors, I suggest using systems that EVERYONE can take advantage of -- life insurance, social welfare systems, etc. To even imagine copyright as a way to provide for survivors is reprehensible. You have better odds betting junior's college fund at the track!

        Some may disagree - but then again, why should *my* works be subject to *your* whims?

        Well, you have no natural right to a copyright. I OTOH have a natural right of free speech and press, encompassing repeating what you said.

        So if you want me -- by which I mean everyone else in the world (we outnumber you, n.b.) -- to be very kind and deign to give you a copyright, i.e. to voluntarily refrain from doing things we have every right to do, then you're going to make us want to do so.

        You want a copyright because you're self interested -- you want to make money from the work. Well, we don't want to give you a copyri
      • I do NOT like life of author duration for copyright. The purpose of copyright is to cause the creation of more content, expressly for the public good.

        The law is supposed to balance the public good with the individual good. This is the 'deal' struck with copyright-- The public benefits when works go into the public domain (they may not -ever- be put up commercially for various economic reasons) after a reasonably short amount of time (i.e. while the works are still topical), and the author is compenstated b
    • Signed.
    • Re:5 years (Score:4, Insightful)

      by hey! ( 33014 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:41PM (#12492906) Homepage Journal
      Five years is probably too short.

      Suppose somebody self-publishes a work. It could take five years for it to get noticed. Five years is also is within the practical planning horizons of man businesses, which reduces the value of a creator's work on the market.

      I'd like to see a round twenty years from the date of initial publication. If a work does not make money within twenty years, it never will. Also the discount rate means that the income twenty plus years out has a present value, practically speaking, of nil. Further extension of the copyright does not benefit authors in a material sense.
      • Re:5 years (Score:3, Interesting)

        Why not allow each release to have its own expiry?

        If a work does not make money within twenty years, it never will.

        Set it to five years, and let's use something big for an example - say Windows 95. It was released in Aug 1995, regular support ended after 5 years, 4 months, extended lasted another year (source [microsoft.com]). I'm pretty sure the sales revenue on windows 95 was zero by august 2000, and if it were to have open-sourced itself I can't see that enabling other companies to provide better support than MS

    • When a copyright term ends, the author should take reasonable measures to make sure that the work enters the public domain. With books, that work automatically enters the public domain, but with closed source software, the source code remains secret. This undermines the original spirit of copyright, which was to provide government protection (funded by public funds) in exchange for the eventual benefit of the public by adding to the body of works in the public domain. With software, this model is severel
      • There have been a number of suggestions that copyright should expire when the protected work has been unavailable from the owner for a fixed period, typically 1 year.

        This would protect works that are still generating income for the owner, while preventing the problem of having all our culture locked up in vaults forever, unavailable to anyone.

        This has particularly been suggested for software, but usually with the concept of "support" thrown in. Imagine if, when a company's CS people told you that their p
  • The only 'fair use' clause should be, if you've ever heard it or seen it, its yours forever.

    I mean, otherwise what are they going to do with people with an eidetic memory? Give them memory suppressing drugs? Lobotomies? Develop a mind wipe ray??
  • well for one... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by zxnos ( 813588 ) <zxnoss@gmail.com> on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:16PM (#12492641)
    ...if it is broadcast (tv, radio) over the airways free to the viewer, listener i should be able to do what i want with it. ie. record it, edit out commercials etc. share it with all my friends. if i am paying for the content (cable tv, xm radio) i should be able to record it and view, listen to it later.
  • These (Score:5, Informative)

    by 4of12 ( 97621 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:17PM (#12492652) Homepage Journal
    are very reasonable starting points [digitalconsumer.org] IMHO.
  • Less of it! (Score:2, Insightful)

    Everything was fine pre-DMCA.
    • Re:Less of it! (Score:5, Informative)

      by jc42 ( 318812 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:41PM (#12492907) Homepage Journal
      Everything was fine pre-DMCA.

      Not really. The famous Girl-Scout case was years before the DMCA was passed. This was the case in which the Scouts were sued for permitting their members to sing copyrighted songs around a campfire. And note that all the negative publicity didn't work in this case. The Girl Scouts are paying an annual fee for the right to sing around their campfires.

      Then there are the explanations of how it comes to be that Happy Birthday is still under copyright, although it was written in the 1880's. The current owner gets several million US dollars per year for permissions to sing the song.

      None of this is the fault of the DMCA.

  • My $.02 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bechthros ( 714240 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:18PM (#12492665) Homepage Journal
    1) faster expiration.

    2) the ability of a media consumer, having paid for a legit copy of a movie or a cd, to manipulate it in any way he/she sees fit short of redistribution for profit.
    • Re:My $.02 (Score:5, Interesting)

      by GlassHeart ( 579618 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:55PM (#12493048) Journal
      the ability of a media consumer, having paid for a legit copy of a movie or a cd, to manipulate it in any way he/she sees fit short of redistribution for profit.

      So redistribution for no profit, no matter at what scale it occurs, should be legal? What if this means that a large studio (that can afford the bandwidth) could just host a copy of any indie film so that the makers see no profit?

  • Me? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Auckerman ( 223266 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:18PM (#12492668)
    1. 15-20 year limit on all copyright
    2. All sufficient quotation to talk about a specific copyrighted material allowed.
    3. All parody allowed, even if it violates trade dress, or any other contrived notion of property
    4. Limited copying for immediate friends and family allowed
    5. No EULA's allowed (unless specifically signed by both parties, in person)
    6. You can't copyright something that is already in the public domain (silence for example), merely you're specific version of it. (Someone makes a story based of a centuries old fairy tale, you can do the same, even if they get all sorts of trademarks from it)

    You don't get 2-6 if I don't get number 1.
    • Re:Me? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by larien ( 5608 )
      Duration of copyright is a sticky point; I do think it needs to be shorter, but Disney et al will fight tooth and nail to keep it as long as it is no matter how hypocritical it is for them (they've ripped off so many fairy tales and other stories themselves...).

      With regards to point 6; there needs to be a form of protection for those kind of things. For example, if someone makes a film of Macbeth, that interpretation is subject to copyrights, but the original work isn't and someone else can put on a play

      • Re:Me? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Auckerman ( 223266 )
        Using concepts from the film version in your production is a dodgy area.

        I'm sorry, everything in the public domain should be fair game. A film with an expired copyright falls in this category. As far as I know, there is no such thing right now. Keep in mind, up until the 20th century in the US, copyrights actually expired. This is exactly how Disney was able to get it's start. It borrowed heavily from material in the public domain, and arguable our culture has seen benifit from this. 20 years is mor
    • Re:Me? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ad0gg ( 594412 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @06:01PM (#12493109)
      No EULA's allowed (unless specifically signed by both parties, in person)

      Congradulations you just made the GPL unenforcable. Slashbotters simply amaze me.

      • Re:Me? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Jherek Carnelian ( 831679 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @06:16PM (#12493244)
        Congradulations you just made the GPL unenforcable.

        FALSE.

        Copyright is a kind of "default" contract.
        EULAs ADD restrictons to that default contract.
        The GPL SUBTRACTS restrictions from that contract.

        Thus, at a minimum, if no EULAs are allowed, then the default contract is still in place. Thus the GPL remains JUST as enforceable as it is today, but instead of being protected by the GPL, users would be at the mercy of the copyright owner to not prosecute based on restrictions that the GPL removes.

        [i]Slashbotters simply amaze me.[/i]

        You are, apparently, easily entertained.
  • I think that if it isn't possible to legally obtain a work within your own borders, then copyright law should not apply for that work until it is available for purchase/consumption. This kind of issue is most prevalent with anime fansubs, but those tend to be tolerated. What I'm specifically referring to is something like the Chinese film "Hero." Miramax had the rights to distribute it in English, but left it unreleased for three years, then they had the gall to sue people who had imported Chinese copies of
    • Region coding is overrated, all these copyrights laws are useless.

      Unlimited on-demand should be the way of the future. We own none of it, but as long as we own the box, we can watch anything!

    • Works for me. That three year speculative investment by the studio shouldn't be subsidized and protected by the federal government. You bought rights? Great. Now release the damned movie, or forfeit your rights.
  • by neiffer ( 698776 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:19PM (#12492675) Homepage
    I always wonder why there can't be something concerning commercial availability. If software isn't sold anymore, shouldn't that modify copyright? What about when a book or CD or movie is unavailable? What about so-called abandonware?
    • The Copyright Office in the US has finally decided to take a look at this, unfortunately comments had to be in by May 9, 2005.

      http://www.copyright.gov/orphan/ [copyright.gov]
    • by raygundan ( 16760 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:27PM (#12492758) Homepage
      To get a copyright for a work, you should have to register a highest-possible-quality unencrypted digital copy of the work with the copyright office.

      At a minimum, this guarantees that works don't vanish from existence before their copyright expires, denying the public domain their content.

      Additionally, you could add criteria to address abandonware-- if a work is not produced or sold for a period of 10 years, it becomes available from the copyright office for a small copying fee, and has becomes part of the public domain.

      Alternatively, this could act as a form of "mandatory licensing," where you can purchase the work for a nominal fee from the copyright office, and the proceeds are split between the office (for maintaining this library of works) and the copyright holder. This way, even people who are no longer able to sell their works could make a modest sum from the sale until the copyright expires, and people would have access to works that would have otherwise disappeared.
  • by shanen ( 462549 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:20PM (#12492680) Homepage Journal
    Hey, that's an easy one! Copyright laws should be used to encourage creativity, not stifle it. I think the two main abuses of current copyright law are the blocking of derivative works and the extension of the term of copyright.

    In both cases, these are driven not by the creators, but by the greedy businessmen who are selling their creative works. The problem is that they are the ones who have been essentially dictating copyright law for the last 40 years or so, and their only purpose is to maximize their monopoly profits.

    Mickey Mouse should have died and been replaced a LONG time ago. Preserving the Disney franchise is *NOT* the primary goal of copyright.

  • Already Sensible (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TheRedHorse ( 559375 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:20PM (#12492682)
    I'm probably in a minority, but I think America's Fair Use Clause is already pretty sensible, it states:

    "Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include --

    (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

    (2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

    (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

    (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work."

    The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

    If we'd actually enforce this doctrine and not pass things to circumvent it, like the DMCA, I think oftentimes we'd find the law on our side. How does Australian law differ from these provisions?

    I think alot of the bickering about IP rights comes from industries using money to skew the issues and interpret the law in their favor, and no strong voice stating what the law actually is or moving that it should be enforced fairly.
  • by Otter ( 3800 )
    [I]t's hard to avoid breaking the law nearly every day, ... sharing movies via P2P or with friends.

    Yeah, in general it's hard to avoid breaking the law nearly every day, whether stealing milk trucks or burglarizing orphanages. (Yes, I elided two-thirds of that. Is it really impossible to tape TV shows or rip CDs in Australia without breaking the law?

  • "What Would You Ask For in Copyright Law?"

    How about... Oh, I don't know: Fairness? Balance? Reasonable limits?

  • by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF ( 813746 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:21PM (#12492692)

    My main problem with copyright in the U.S. is that it is used to basically remove works from the populace. The vast majority of works are tossed in storage after they don't become hugely successful and are never seen again and often become completely unavailable. If I were rewriting copyright laws I'd require that all copyrighted works must be available for sale at a reasonable market rate or the copyright on them expires immediately (with an exception for works still in progress or about to released) and cannot be reinstated. I'd also require that two copies of every work to be copyrighted be provided free of charge to a national archive, thus ensuring that they will not disappear. (This used to be law in the U.S. but was repealed at the same time most of the rest of our copyright laws were rewritten by lobbyists.)

    This still allows artists and publishers to make money on works, but also preserves them for the public when those companies stop offering them.

  • by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:21PM (#12492698)
    It'd be 5 years inherant at the time of creation. Registration isn't necessary, but you'd want some way to prove date of creation and ownership, so a good idea. During this time you'd have exclusive and total control. Now after 5 years you'd have three choices:

    1) Do nothing and allow it to fall in to public domain.

    2) Reregister for an additonal 5 years under the same terms.

    3) Reregister for 25 years, but under different terms that included compulsory licensing for derivitive works with reasonable and non-discriminitory fees.

    This would ensure that the ability to make money is there, but that the public gets the work in a timely fashion. If you creat it and just abandon it, the public gets it in 5 years. If after 5 years you still find you are cashing in, you can have another 5 to continue to do so. A decade is more than enough to cash in on a work. However if you find that you aren't selling a lot, but there's interest from others in licensing it, you can get a quater century where you are gaurenteed royalties for any derivitives.

    I'd also mandidate fair use clauses making illegal to implement any technology that interferes with fair use. You are free to work out a copyprotection, if you like, however it must be one such that all fair use rights are protected.

    However, that's a pipe dream and I know it.
  • Life or 50 years from publication, whichever is longer. I'm not keen to be told I have to let other people make crap versions of my work while I'm alive, and if I die just after publishing something I want my kids to have a chance to make some of the inheritance I didn't get a chance to build up for them.

    Other than that, cut out this crap about the medium. I bought a song, and it's simply not relevant if I bought it on a CD or whatever - I can listen to it anywhere anyhow.

    TWW

    • Increasingly copyright is owned by a corporation, not the particular artist (or software engineer) that did the actual "work".

      When is the death of a corporation?
  • I'd say really, short of changing the mindset of the society in which we live, there's nothing that really "should" be changed about copyright. I mean really, if you think about it, people need to make money to live, therefore they "should" fight to the death to protect anything they have that is worth "money". Why shouldn't Disney have exclusive right to make money off of Mickey Mouse indefinitely (ok so maybe that would be a change from current law, since they can't do that now)? Why shouldn't the RIAA
    • I'd say really, short of changing the mindset of the society in which we live, there's nothing that really "should" be changed about copyright.

      Lets see the vast majority of books, music, movies, video games, and TV shows published from 1976-2000 are completely unavailable to anyone. So it is illegal for me to make a copy of a very rare book, and entirely possible no other copies exist. That means it is erased from the public consciousness. And you think there is nothing wrong with copyright? You're ver

  • IMHO the most important part of "fair use" stems from application of the doctrine of first sale. If you think in terms of "the copyright holder has the right to sell you the work but not to control your use of it once they've been paid" you get most of the real "fair use" rights.

    No, you don't get all of them, but at least you get the most utterly critical ones like being able to make private copies for markup etc, trade or sell the works, and so forth.

    Uses such as excerpt for parody, commentary, etc.

  • by robyannetta ( 820243 ) * on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:25PM (#12492741) Homepage
    I say dump all current Copyright laws and move to the Creative Commons [creativecommons.org] model.

    This allows the artist the opportunity to choose what licence the work will be distributed in.

    All licences are free for personal use. Restrictions can be added for commercial use, sampling and other derivatives.

    I personally use Creative Commons for my releases.

  • by dtfinch ( 661405 ) * on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:26PM (#12492751) Journal
    Copyrights last 10 years, but with unlimited free 10 year extensions during the life of the author. If he or she doesn't care to apply for an extension, the work enters the public domain. Works for hire and transferred works have a 50 year limit.
  • By application only (Score:4, Interesting)

    by PMuse ( 320639 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:26PM (#12492752)
    1. Copyright must be applied for. If copyright is not applied for within 1 year of publication, the work is public domain.
  • I would ask for very strong copyright laws and abolishment of patents. I am all for copyright that lasts at least a 1000 years if that was possible. Of-course people are going to jump on me saying that the 'works of art' (Hollywood?) should belong to public sooner but I disagree. I am against patenting ideas and stifling innovation that way but I am all for protection of specific implementations.
    --
    That said, I am also pro-fair use. The end user who (for example) bought the final product should be able
  • Education (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Bios_Hakr ( 68586 ) <xptical@gmEEEail.com minus threevowels> on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:27PM (#12492763)
    I'd ask for unrestricted use for education. Specifically state-funded education at the k-12 level. One of the stipulations should be that the copyright holder/publisher should provide, at cost, a copy of material for each student that needs the material.

    As much as I loved books like Tom Sawyer, I hated having to pay for them out of pocket.

    And I know something has been written in the last 100 years that students SHOULD be reading, but can't because of copyright.

    This should include music (sheet for the band members and performances for appretiation classes), movies, books, software, etc. Basicly anything that can be copyrighted should be avalible at no cost to students.

    There would be an exception for books written specifically to be used as textbooks.
  • by ecklesweb ( 713901 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:29PM (#12492777)
    Should we be asking what specific rights we'll give the consumer, or should we be asking what specific rights we'll give the content owner? I would suggest the latter. The US Constitution, for example, takes that tack; all powers not explicitly reserved for the federal government are implicitly remanded to the states. I'd like to see the same thing in copyright law so we don't have to go change the law everytime someone thinks of something new to do with content - any rights not explicitly reserved for the content owner are implicitly remanded to the consumer.
  • No extensions (Score:4, Insightful)

    by PMuse ( 320639 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:29PM (#12492781)
    2. The duration of copyright on a work is set at the time it is first published. It may not be later extended.
    • Re:No extensions (Score:3, Interesting)

      by EpsCylonB ( 307640 )
      Agreed.

      Though as a compromise I would propose an intellectual property tax in return for shorter (than current) copyright durations. If the tax isn't paid then the work enters the public domain from where it can't be retrieved.

      The deal is copyright protection for any published work and lasts a maximum of 25 years from the date of publication. If an individual or business entity wishes to hold on to the copyright after that period then they have to pay a yearly tax for that privilege.

      People don't realis
  • Twenty years at start. After that, renewable at the rate of $1/year until the death of the original authors. (Note: NOT the corporation that hired them.)

    Copyrights can be sold, but only the original author can elect to renew the copyright.
  • Australia doesn't have a constitutional right to freedom of speech. (Merely political speech.) This is a counterbalance to copyright law which the USA has but we don't. You should mention this at least once.

  • I think that the emphasis of any copyright legislation should be based on promoting the production of scientific and artistic works. That should be the guiding principle behind any law and any enforcement, not profit.

    Intellectual property is about the government granting someone a temporary monopoly on something, in the hopes that it will have a net benefit for the society. The monopoly is not a right that a creator has, it's a tradeoff. The government will permit you a temporary monopoly in exchange

  • by PMuse ( 320639 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:32PM (#12492816)
    3. All copying of a work is permitted so long as absolutely no money is made as a result of it (including ad revenue).

    (C'mon, this is what we really want, right?)
    • Not really.

      This would let somebody sabotage somebody else's market for a copyrighted work by selling at cost. You might see a publishing house retalliating against another publisher's star author (which refused a deal with the first one) by simply distributing that star's works online for no cost. Want to hurt Adobe? Put every version of Photoshop online for free. You'd force the entire creative market to shift to service contracts -- and in some cases, such as just about anything creative except softw
  • Codify a minimum standard for fair use, along with additional guidelines for additional fair use.

    All works copyrighted at creation (generally already true), renewable through registration.

    Reset the lifetime of the monopoly. That could be 5-10 years, renewable a few times.

    Repository of all works that are renewed, with public release of all content at the end of the renewal. Expired content is made available at no cost, or perhaps for a very small annual usage fee. In the case of computer programs,

  • Well, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: governments only offer to hear "public input" to pacify the citizenry -- they never really act on any of the public input or take it seriously.

    That said, "fair use" and copyright law can and should be defined as follows:

    Every person has the right to transfer (to/from any storage medium), transform (to/from any format, regardless of any intellectual property restrictions pertaining to the formats), or duplicate (an unlimited number of times), any content t
  • A constitutional provision demanding limited copyright...oh, wait...
  • I think the "media industry" would see major gains if they would cut some of the costs they incur into current media.

    By using existing P2P technologies and allowing a person who paid X dollars for media content, they could essentially cut out a step in the supply chain by removing marketing, or perhaps shipping and distribution channels.

    There would be a rise in the number of units sold due to the lower cost to produce and distribute, consumers are happy because they pay less for the content.

    Lower prices
  • by PMuse ( 320639 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:34PM (#12492844)
    4. The notion of "derivative works" is abolished. Only copying is prohibited. New creations are OK.
    • Bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Kjella ( 173770 )
      So if I change the least significant bit in one sample on a video/audio recording, is it a new work? Derivative works specificly deal with the problem "When is this new?" Maybe you want to redefine it somewhat, but I think your idea might get messier than the current one.

      Kjella
  • Fixing Copyright (Score:4, Insightful)

    by GrouchoMarx ( 153170 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:35PM (#12492847) Homepage
    Last year, a group of graduate students (myself being one of them) asked that exact question and came up with their (our) suggested answer. Link below. It's under a CC license. It's US-centric, but feel free to forward to any Australian (or anywhere else) leaders you feel it would positively impact. :-)

    http://www.garfieldtech.com/copyright/ [garfieldtech.com]
  • First Sale is Final (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PMuse ( 320639 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:46PM (#12492957)
    7. Anything you do to a legally acquired copy of a work is OK (e.g. stripping the protection, backing up, resequencing a DVD to remove parts you don't like), but making more copies is not.
  • by nunchux ( 869574 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @05:57PM (#12493071)
    I work in animation, and though I'm not a creative genius myself (and will never create an original property) I've known quite a few people who are, some who've made it big, others who've fallen by the wayside.

    I see a lot of people in this discussion throw out "5 years from date of creation" and similar time frames. I find that to be ridiculous. It could take five, ten, fifteen years or even longer for a creative type to find success. Someone could write a book or song in their twenties, release it in relative obscurity and then find success with the next generation (or two generations later, it happens.) Why shouldn't they be entitled to reap the rewards?

    Look, if you create something, a property, a song, a character, whatever, it should be YOURS. As long as you are alive. This isn't patent law, where an invention and variations of the technology could be good for society. Nobody needs Mickey Mouse, it doesn't benefit the world for "I Can't Get No Satisfaction" to be free for everyone to use, and Steven King should be always be the first to profit when an edition of "Christine" is published. This has nothing to do with digital rights, Bittorent and all that... It has to do with who owns the rights and says what can be done with his or her intellectual property.

    Of course, many if not most properties are in the hands of corporations, and I would suggest that copyright law be changed so that only individuals, not companies can own a copyright-- otherwise it's "leased" for a specific period of time (and here is where the five years figure could come in.) After which, the creator can renegotiate for a fair value or take it back. No more cases of Marvel screwing Kirby or Nickelodeon dumping Kricfalusi from his own show.

    I would further suggest that copyrights cannot be owned by an estate. Public domain happens when the artist dies, period-- and then the work is released to the ages to be remembered or forgotten. Anyway, wives, children and grandchildren are notorious for "selling out", caring more for cash than any integrity.
  • by Jherek Carnelian ( 831679 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @06:00PM (#12493101)
    I would like to see protection for new business models to fund creative works. More specifically, I would like to see a safe-harbor for copyright violations of works incorporated into works released into the public domain and for the more free versions of the creative commons license. Any damages awarded for such a case would be limited to no more than the net revenue generated by the work.

    This would allow a business to form enabling a work-for-hire model without fear that an accidental inclusion of an "old-style" copyrighted work would destroy the business.

    For example, you record a song and it happens to include a bass-line that has been copyrighted by some music label 20 years ago. Studio time, etc costs you $600 to get the recording mixed and ready for production qualit release. You charge $1000 to release it to the public domain - 500 fans each pay $2 and so you relase it. Said big music label decides to file suit for copyright infringement, the most they can get are two things:

    1) Song is "withdrawn" from the public domain.
    2) $600 in damages because that was net revenue generated by the sale

    This avoids the ability of the sudio to sue for $150,000 or so for every copy of the song ever made which is about what the current (USA) copyright laws allow for. $150,000 x millions of downloads would totally bankrupt any business.

    So, if alternate business models are going to get off the ground, they need to be protected from legal attacks designed more to protect the current business model than to protect the artist. Changes to the law should enable creativity in art and in business, not fight it.
  • by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @06:15PM (#12493236) Homepage
    ...to redo the entire copyright system, I would rather present suggestions within the current system, to halt a disturbing trend:

    1. It should be illegal for any copyright protection scheme to enforce restrictions on non-reproductive use.

    Examples:
    Fast forward disabled, protected by CSS: Illegal
    Fast forward in an "open" bit: Legal.
    Region restrictions, protected by CSS: Illegal
    Region restrictions in an "open" bit: Legal.

    2. Copyright must be granted under the Berne convention. But protection of a copyright protection scheme is only granted on the condition that decryption keys are placed in escrow with the government, to be released into the public domain at the same time as copyright expires. If this key is protecting several works, it will be released when the first work enters the public domain.

    Example:
    [Movie company] releases a DVD. The symmetric key is placed in escrow with the government. When the copyright expires, that specific key is released.

    [Music company] releases a compilation CD with a single key. When the first track enters public domain, the key is released (which would quickly lead to a system where each object is protected by its own key).

    The public/private key pair in CD/DVD/TV players are never released, only the specific instances of keys.

    3. All DRM systems which have the characteristics of a sale must allow resale under the first sale doctrine free of any comission, even if a license can not be reliably revoked (i.e. the buyer gets his copy, the seller keeps his). However, after invoking this the old original is considered an illegal copy, subject to relevant copyright law.

    4. If the work is protected by a DRM system, the company must provide replacements at cost. Proof of ownership may be either damaged media, or reciept if the content is uniquely tied to the user. (As medialess content is).

    Example:
    DVD broken: Replacement.
    iTMS tunes lost in disk crash: Replacement
    DVD gets stolen: Car/home insurance case. Too easy to commit fraud otherwise.

    These are areas where DRM is threatening to undermine basic consumer rights. While this is not nearly enough, I fear it will be hard enough to save even this much.

    Kjella
  • by kenp2002 ( 545495 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @06:22PM (#12493284) Homepage Journal
    Expires when the last author (if a group project) dies.

    That's all.
    No extensions for the company.
    No extensions for the family.

    5 guys develop it, last guy of the 5 dies. Public domain. Period.

    I bet you company health care programs will improve.
  • Read Lessig's book (Score:3, Insightful)

    by emarkp ( 67813 ) <[moc.qdaor] [ta] [todhsals]> on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @06:46PM (#12493463) Journal
    Everytime I talk about this kind of thing, I say "what Lessig said." Read Free Culture [free-culture.org] by Lawrence Lessig.

    One great idea he suggests is to have an online registration that costs (say) $1 per year to register, with a maximum life of (IIRC) 50 years. If the copyright owner doesn't register it every year, it's in the public domain. If it's not worth $1 to register, then it shouldn't be copyrighted anyway.

  • by NZheretic ( 23872 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @07:32PM (#12493858) Homepage Journal
    When You Purchase An Instance Of Something, You Own That Instance. When I purchase a car, I own that car. I have the right to that particular instance of that car to use,modify ( pimp my ride ),combine, dispose or resell without having to seek permission from the car builders, vendors etc. Therefore is the following is self evident:

    1) Acknowledge the supremacy of the doctrine of first sale [google.com] : When you purchase an instance of a copy of copyrighted work, your rights to view,use,modify,combine,interoperate with, dispose or resell that one instance are not impeded by either legislation or technology. This fact has been recognized time and again by the US courts.

    2) The doctrine of first sale applies to both physical media and digital content where the receiver pays a transaction for an instance of a copyrighted work: When you purchase an instance of a copy of copyrighted work that involves the buyer making a choice for that instance of copyrighted work and entering into a transaction with the seller, then the buyer has the rights to that instance under the doctrine of first sale. Sellers of instances of copyrighted work cannot hide behind provision as a service, when you pay for an instance, you own that instance.

    3) You do not have the right to record content without permission of the copyright holders of a live performance ( play, concert etc ) or private performance ( Film theater ) on private property or venue. You pay to attend a performance at a physical venue, not for a copy of an instance of that performance.

    4) Broadcasted ( as apposed to downloaded ) copyrighted works as content received into a household or to device held by individual person or on that persons property, may not be redistributed outside of that person's household to anyone who does not receive the content though the same service. You may record a instance of copyrighted work for later viewing ( timeshifting ) and distribute a copy along to any person whos household also receives that same broadcast service ( Samaritan clause ). You many not redistribute or resell content recorded from a broadcast service to anyone not receiving that same broadcast service content.

    5) Although you may not redistibute recorded copies of broadcasted copyrighted content outside of the terms of (4), there should be no limit to what you may do with instances of those works within your household. You should have the right to modify the works, combine with other works and interoperate with other works.

    6) Copyright protection extends only to the particular work copyrighted. The Copyright holder's exclusive rights should not extend to the right to deny other combining an instance of copyright holder work with other works. You should have the right to distribute and/or sell, patches, recipes and addon components that refer and link to the content of the copyrighted work, but do not contain content from the original copyrighted work. The resulting combined and/or transformed work that contains content from the copyrighted work sources can not be legally redistributed without the permission of all the copyright holders.

  • by Vegeta99 ( 219501 ) <rjlynn.gmail@com> on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @02:10AM (#12496355)
    You made it, it's yours. Upon your death, your right to your works CEASES. YOU'RE FUCKING DEAD. Maybe it shouldn't even last that long, but from creation to death of creator seems fair.

    People sharing music P2P for FREE should be legal. Nobody's making money off of your works, INCLUDING YOU. Probably because YOU SUCK THE BIG ONE at marketing.

    I should have every right to do whatever I want with any signal that enters my home. IE, if Hughes insists on radiating my brain with their digital television signal, then I insist on decoding it and using it as I see fit. What if tomorrow, I fall on a pile of radioactive waste, and can suddenly decode the signal in my head? Are you gonna chop it off and use it as evidence against me in a DMCA Act lawsuit? IF YOU DON'T WANT ME TO TIME SHIFT OR FORMAT SHIFT OR SHARE OR EVEN SELL YOUR CONTENT, DO NOT SEND IT OVER PUBLIC AIRWAVES. If I threw a giant wad of cash at you, I'm sure you'd be much obliged to take it. So don't throw your EMR at me, because I'm going to do the same.

    Musicians? I will pay to see you in person. I will pay a very small fee to cover your costs for the media and recording of your music. If you want me to give you a glamorous lifestyle because you can play repetitive, shitty music, FUCK YOU. I will NOT be poor so you can drive a fucking Porsche. It is ART, a PASSION, not a FUCKING CAREER.

    I'm 18, and a student. For a living, I clean floors. The only laws that protect my living protect yours too. When I get a contract, it isn't for life. It's until I FUCK UP. I don't need no fucking laws to protect my livelihood, so you pussies shouldn't either. Metallica, BURN IN HELL. Unless you would enjoy that, that is, if that is the case, may fluffy white bunnies rape you all day long.
  • by LuYu ( 519260 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @04:46AM (#12496903) Homepage Journal

    I will start with the questions in the article and then continue with some other additions:

    What fair use rights should be defined under copyright law? Is the use of a static, defined set of rights too restrictive?

    Your question points out a very obvious problem: every time rights are defined, they are restricted. The Founding Fathers, the authors of the US Constitiution, probably would have found the idea of locking up a book ludicrous, but today we have DRM where publishers have fine tuned control of how we, the owners, use our own books. I am pretty certain the Right of Access would have been assumed by the Founding Fathers. Now that it cannot be assumed, many people claim it is not a right.

    Having said that, if you are going to create enumerated rights, they should be as broad as possible. Things like: You may do anything with the copyrighted material except sell it for such and such a term.

    The entire idea of derivative works should be eliminated. If I translate a book, that is a new book. If I want to make a better Star Wars, let the public choose whether or not I have beaten Lucas at his own game. If I want to annotate or critisize a book that I agree or disagree with, I should be able to. And I should be able to sell that book with same protections as the original author got even if it contains the bulk or the entirety of the original text.

    What's right/wrong with the copyright laws where you live?

    Where I currently live, the Republic of China, copyright is imposed by another culture. Europe is taking its ideas of censorship and exporting them to the rest of the world. These information control laws have been imposed on every Asian country, and the US government is constantly putting pressure on the ROC government to extend and enhance enforcement of these foreign (barbaric?) copyright laws. The USA is even a victim of this exportation of European feudalism. The 1976 Copyright Act imposed the "moral rights" provisions of the Berne Convention which altered the entire face of copyright. It increased copyright terms, added derivative works, and made copyright automatic. The last addition, when applied to the Internet makes copyright an enemy of free speech.

    China has a long history of annotation going back thousands of years. Many editions of books have extensive and very useful commentary added by subsequent authors all throughout Chinese history. While the original author's words were often preserved, other educated people were able to contribute to their works without fear of any sort of punishment. Chinese society for centuries was the most educated society on earth for precisely this reason.

    This was the first society to have paper and printing, and the prices of books here have always been lower. People here read way more than people in the West. Text is such a part of life that it is impossible to watch a movie without subtitles. In the USA, people complain if the movie has subtitles because "It's too much work". This is in large part a result of the lack of restrictions with respect to the exchange of information here.

    The cost of information access in the West is staggering. The best example of this is college text book "business". Ten years ago, some books cost up to US$80. They were updated -- rarely noticably -- every two years or so. Often, a student could not sell the book back because the new edition was out. By contrast, when I studied in Taiwan, I never paid more than about US$8 for a book. In addition to that, the language books were better than any language book I ever had for any Western language I ever studied.

    Another good example is Joseph Needham's Science and Civilization in China. In the USA, each volume is about US$120. In the ROC, each volume is around US$30. It is exactly the same book. Here, I can afford it, in the USA, I cannot.

    Copyright, in this case, se

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