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The Courts Government Spam The Internet News

Spammer Sentenced to 9 Years in Jail 565

Iphtashu Fitz writes "Jeremy Jaynes of Raleigh, NC now has the dubious honor of being the first spammer sentenced to jail for the felony of spamming. Virginia judge Thomas Horne sentenced Jaynes to 9 years in prison based on a jury recommendation after he was convicted of sending out 10 million e-mails a day. Jaynes, who sent out much of his spam using the name "Gaven Stubberfield", has held a position on the SpamHaus Registry of Known Spam Operations for a long time. Unfortunately the sentence has been postponed while the case is being appealed." Commentary on the sentence available at Forbes as well.
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Spammer Sentenced to 9 Years in Jail

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  • good move (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Coneasfast ( 690509 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:17PM (#12179806)
    Defense attorney David Oblon argued in court that nine years was far too long given that Jaynes was charged as an out-of-state resident with violating a Virginia law that had taken effect just two weeks before. "We have no doubt that we will win on appeal," Oblon said outside court.

    9 years too long? i don't think so. on what grounds would they win? did the people who bought penis enlargement pills give good feedback? when the law takes effect has no merit, he was sending 10 mil emails a day. just multiply that by 2 weeks.

    He also has said the law is an unconstitutional infringement of free speech.

    ok, let me come to your house, stuff hundreds of flyers a day at your front door, then say it's an unconstitutional infringement on free speech if i get stopped.

    the article didn't mention what type of spam he was sending (but at 10mil/day, my guess is every kind).
    • Re:good move (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tdemark ( 512406 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:23PM (#12179927) Homepage
      It's not that I think 9 years is too long or too short, it's that I think it's not in line with other punishments.

      You could commit a murder and probably get a similar sentence, if not shorter.

      It really says something about society when you can get a harsher penalty for sending spam than you could for premeditated homicide.

      - Tony
      • Re:good move (Score:5, Insightful)

        by LabRat007 ( 765435 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:52PM (#12180359) Homepage
        I agree. A few years back our neighbor's 13 year old daughter and several of her friends were molested. The offender was sentenced to 15 years and served 3.

        What the hell kind of world do we live in if a child raping bastard gets a potentially lighter sentence then a spammer?

        I don't get it.
      • He should have to compensate folks. There's no easy way at this point to do fair repayment to everyone he harmed, but he could at least have his wages heavily garnished for a nice, long time, and use it for tax reduction. Or use it to pay for going after other spammers. Or buying spam firewalls for ISPs. Whatever. He should *pay*, and it he should pay *society* somehow. Not just be out of circulation.

        As for rapists and murderers getting off easily, that needs to be dealt with as well. I'm not willin
      • Re:good move (Score:5, Insightful)

        by sTalking_Goat ( 670565 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @05:11PM (#12180606) Homepage
        I agree. I hate SPAM as much as the next guy but it makes me nervous when non-violent, especially computer related crimes, start having hefty sentences. A good deal of the outcome of trial has to do with previous cases.

        If a prosecutor in the future can link Joe Spammer and Tom Bittorent user somehow and Joe spammer got 9 years, what do you think Tom's chances are?

        • Re:good move (Score:3, Interesting)

          by arkhan_jg ( 618674 )
          Depends upon the nature of his emails, I'd say.

          If they're only annoying because of quantity, but otherwise legitimate services, then I'd agree that jail does seem a dangerous path to be going down. I don't subscribe to jail being a good deterrent for minor offences.

          OTOH, if the mails he were sending were badly fraudulent or dangerous, i.e. dodgy mortages, fake viagra (who knows what's in it?), credit card fraud, 419 scams etc then I think jailtime is deserved.

          If someone defrauds a lot of people of a lot
      • Re:good move (Score:5, Insightful)

        by sakshale ( 598643 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @05:17PM (#12180679) Homepage Journal
        It really says something about society when you can get a harsher penalty for sending spam than you could for premeditated homicide.
        I suspect that society would be better off if it used community service and financial penalties instead of jail time for nonviolent crimes. As much as I dislike SPAM and SPAMMERS, nine years in jail just doesn't feel correct to me.
      • Re:good move (Score:3, Insightful)

        by zymano ( 581466 )
        And Alan Ralsky [thenetwork...trator.com] is still spamming and is the number #1 spammer according to Spamhuas. [spamhaus.org] even with the stupid Verizon lawsuit.

        When are the fucking ISP's going to be forced to shut these assholes down.

        I forgot , they make money off them.

        The Internet consortium needs to start shutting down ISP's if they don't act.

        Isn't this like telephony fraud ?
      • Re:good move (Score:3, Interesting)

        by AK Marc ( 707885 )
        You could commit a murder and probably get a similar sentence, if not shorter.

        One murder deprives one person of 60 years. 10,000,000 spam deprive 10,000,000 people collectively of (for argument sake) 60 years. So, why is it more acceptable to harm many people a little? Or is it that the sentence is in line with murder because the collective harm is the same?

        I'm tired of the "should someone go to jail for fraud" complaints when billions were stolen from millions of people (Enron, etc.). The harm is gr
    • Re:good move (Score:5, Insightful)

      by JavaLord ( 680960 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:27PM (#12180001) Journal
      9 years too long? i don't think so

      Consider the fact that here in New Jersey, a Rapist gets out in 3 years with good behavior. (They don't even call it rape here, it's 'sexual assault')

      His crime was not a violent one, he shouldn't go to jail for 9 years. He should have to pay an insane fine, and be barred from going online for 10-20 years and give him 10 years probation. If he violates any of this, throw him in jail.

      It's silly to throw someone in jail in a country where we already have an overcrowded jail system.

      This man was simply a victim of being made an example of. There is no doubt that he should be punished, but 9 years in jail for a crime that just annoyed victims is a bit much. I'd much rather see rapists and murders get 20-40 years and let people like this get probation and fines. It's a waste of resources to lock someone like this up.

      • Re:good move (Score:2, Insightful)

        As you said, he is being made an example of. The 9 year prison sentence is just sensationalism to get this case into the news, so the message will clearly reach others who engage in this activity.

        He isn't in prison now while the case is being appealed, and there is a reason for that. On appeal, his prison sentence will be reduced to a slap-on-the-wrist level, or to probation with a hefty fine.

        However, the result of his appeal likely won't be widely reported.
      • by pilgrim23 ( 716938 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:44PM (#12180263)
        I totally agree. 9 years is a horrible sentence for spamming. We should be more caring more, sensitive, more in touch with our inner fetus....

        -get a rope......

      • Re:good move (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Xtifr ( 1323 )
        > Consider the fact that here in New Jersey, a Rapist gets out in 3 years with good behavior.

        You're comparing apples and oranges here. Time-sentenced is not the same as time-served - the two are very, very different. A sentence of nine years may very well translate to as little as a year of actual time served (with good behavior)!

        > It's silly to throw someone in jail in a country where we already have an overcrowded jail system.

        That's a separate issue, and I definitely agree with you there. But
    • Re:good move (Score:3, Insightful)

      by KarmaMB84 ( 743001 )
      I think it's highly disturbing that he's going to jail for 9 years over a 2 week old law in a state he doesn't even live in. What kind of message is this sending? States can drag outsiders into their courts because they passed a law 2 seconds ago making you a criminal?
  • Heh heh... (Score:5, Funny)

    by FlyByPC ( 841016 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:17PM (#12179814) Homepage
    Spam in the can, anyone?
  • by Jason_D_Berg ( 745832 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:17PM (#12179816)
    I think it's time for a good ol' fashioned tar and feathering...Now where'd I put those chickens?
  • by Just Some Guy ( 3352 ) <kirk+slashdot@strauser.com> on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:17PM (#12179818) Homepage Journal
    I didn't RTFA. For the benefit of cretins like me, would someone explain what was special about his case that warranted that sentence? Why is he headed to prison when so many other spammers aren't?

    Unfortunately the sentence has been postponed while the case is being appealed.

    Um, I know we hate spammers, but isn't that how the system is supposed to work so that people have every chance possible to prove their innocence?

    Still, the temptation to make a ironic Viagra spam joke here is pretty strong.

    • by Anonymous Coward
      I admit 9 years is a LONG time, but he KNEW what he was doing was very, very wrong.
      pumping out at least 10 million e-mails a day with the help of 16 high-speed lines, the kind of Internet capacity a 1,000-employee company would need
      ...
      Prosecutors say he grossed up to $750,000 per month.
      This guy is a hard up criminal, and now he going to do time like one.
  • by winkydink ( 650484 ) * <sv.dude@gmail.com> on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:18PM (#12179831) Homepage Journal
    I call it a good start. I'd maybe add some language keeping him away from anyhting to do with networked computers for a while as well. 100 or so years should be enough for him to learn his lesson.
  • by chrisnewbie ( 708349 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:18PM (#12179841)
    Damn that's long He should have killed someone or rob a bank, they would have sentenced him for less
    • I hate spammers, I truly do. But for a crime in which a) nothing was physically damaged or destroyed, and b) no people or animals were harmed, I think this is appalling. Ruin him financially for his criminal commercial activity, but 9 years of hard time should be reserved for capital crimes in my mind. Physically removing him from society and suspending all of his personal rights for a good 10-20% of his lifespan (maybe more) is harsh.

      I'm sure manslaughter convictions have been much, much, less severe on
  • by Illissius ( 694708 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:19PM (#12179853)
    ...but 9 years in jail is just a little bit extreme, don't you think? A big fine would be more appropriate, imho.
    • by YrWrstNtmr ( 564987 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:24PM (#12179946)
      A big fine? So if you're a 'successful' spammer, you get off with merely a slightly lighter bank account?

      Not.

    • Since there's no way to tabulate all of the resources and staff time (worldwide) his efforts consumed, and no way to distribute a collected fine... yeah, I think theft on this scale calls for a hefty sentence. It's a shame such sentences aren't more common.

      <grrr>
    • 9 years is fucking ridiculous, and why only for spammers. What about all that unrequested direct marketing I have received over the years, why not jail a few CEO's and marketing people for that? And TV advertisers, how dare they intrude in my living room every day. Jail a few of them as well, and dont get me started on billboard advertisers, how dare they interfere with my line of sight, they should be beaten and then jailed.. and then beaten again.
      • Ah, but by spamming the way he did he broke the law. There is no law against advertising on the Television, Billboards etc.

        Heck there is no law AGAINST sending unsolicited email, but sending without following the regulations is against the law.

    • I don't agree. Spam is theft, pure and simple. It also can, and does, cause significant damage to ISP's, corporations, etc. As an admin who has been on the receiving end of huge floods of spam I know what a nightmare it can be. It can cause long mail outages, which can have a detrimental effect on a companies operations. It can saturate network links, which can result in higher costs for the users of that link. I haven't heard of any recent cases but there are companies that have been forced out of bu
  • 9 years? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bcmm ( 768152 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:19PM (#12179860)
    Did he defraud people with suger pills as well or something? 9 years in prison for annoying people seems a bit harsh...

    It is VERY annoying though, and he did irritate millions.
  • by Killswitch1968 ( 735908 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:20PM (#12179867)
    Do you think he got more time for choosing an alias as stupid as "Gaven Stubberfield"?
  • Thoughts... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DarkHelmet ( 120004 ) * <mark&seventhcycle,net> on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:21PM (#12179882) Homepage

    I know this is NOT going to be a popular opinion here on slashdot... but...

    9 years! That's an awful long time if you think about it. Especially for doing something that's pretty much being a mass annoyance.

    I can understand going to jail for doing something fraudulent. Maybe that was the case with this fellow, even though no mention of fraud was mentioned in the article, and seemingly he wasn't charged with that either.

    Some aspects of emailing deserve jailtime. Sending phony ads to phish people, yes. Using exploited computers to send spam, definately. But aren't there crimes for those already?

    Also, consider the fact that it will cost roughly $50,000 / year to keep this guy in jail. That amounts to 450,000 dollars just to keep this guy from spamming us.

    Taxpayers of Virginia, is keeping this guy off the street really worth that much to you? Taxpayers of any other state, would you really want to adopt laws like this?

    One more thing about criminalizing spam that makes me uncomfortable is the whole free speech thing. Sure, it's speech that most of the time we don't want to hear, but if I send mass emails from my own machines without breaking into anything and without defrauding anyone, should I go to jail for this? After all, it seems nowadays that it's in style to characterize any speech that doesn't agree with American policy as terrorist-sympathizing. Does spam count as free speech too?

    By all means, slashdotters let me know any rational arguments you can think of for criminalizing spam that doesn't include other forms of crime already.

    • by EvilStein ( 414640 )
      If he gets 9yrs in the pokey, hopefully other spammers will sit back and say "oh, uh.. maybe I should find another revenue source.."

      Maybe not, though, because to a lot of spammers, anything you didn't opt out of meant that you opted in. Bastards.
    • Re:Thoughts... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by QuantumRiff ( 120817 )
      I actually agree with you, as unpopular as it might be.. Send him for 1 year. That's plenty of deterrent. Do we really want people thinking, "well, i could get rich spamming but the punishment is pretty high, guess I'll just deal crack?!"
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Re:Thoughts... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by SamNmaX ( 613567 )
        I actually agree with you, as unpopular as it might be.. Send him for 1 year. That's plenty of deterrent. Do we really want people thinking, "well, i could get rich spamming but the punishment is pretty high, guess I'll just deal crack?!"

        This sounds a lot more reasonable. Almost no one has gotten in trouble for sending spam before, and then all the sudden this guy gets hit with by an out of state law and gets sentenced to 9 years. Too many people have this notion that once someone is found guilty of a c

        • Re:Thoughts... (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Skraut ( 545247 )
          If no one had ever gone to jail before for commiting murder would it still be a crime??

          The punishment has to start somewhere. As stated in many other situations, ignorance of the law is no excuse. He was responsible for knowing the laws and how they pertained to his actions. The Can Spam act went into effect in 2003, had he met its regulations he would have not been found guilty under this Virginia law. He had 2 years to clean up his act, and did not.

          I'm sorry but I just don't buy the whole "But it onl

          • Re:Thoughts... (Score:3, Insightful)

            by SamNmaX ( 613567 )
            If no one had ever gone to jail before for commiting murder would it still be a crime??

            Murder is clearly immoral. Spam, although incredibly annoying, has some arguements (which I don't agree with for it). Either way, I think making spam illegal in many cases is approriate.

            The punishment has to start somewhere. As stated in many other situations, ignorance of the law is no excuse. He was responsible for knowing the laws and how they pertained to his actions. The Can Spam act went into effect in 2003,

      • He's worth approximately $24 million, all as a result of spamming. I'd go to jail for one year for $24 million. I mean... daaaaamn. That's roughly $66,000 per day. I could put up with a lot of abuse for $66,000 per day.
    • Re:Thoughts... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by C10H14N2 ( 640033 )
      I think the greater point here is that he's being charged for crimes committed before they were crimes and which as many have pointed out are questionable as to if they should be considered crimes at all.

      Yes, if you defraud or outright steal (think: hijacked zombie computers), sure, that should be criminal. If you merely annoy from the comfort of your home, using your hardware, that should be purely a civil matter for which you should suffer perhaps severe penalties, but not incarceration.
    • 1) Note that "nine years" typically means that he serves three. Even so, I agree that it's pretty harsh, especially for an out-of-stater violating a just-passed law. As someone else noted, presumably they're trying to send a message. Or maybe they judge just really hates spammers.

      2) The violation here was forging headers, not for spamming per se. Whatever you think of that law, it hardly supports your drama about being jailed for disagreeing with US policy.
    • Deterrence (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jfengel ( 409917 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:30PM (#12180043) Homepage Journal
      I can't give you a rational argument for criminalizing spam that you don't already know, but I can explain the sentence a bit.

      I suspect that the real reason for the stiff sentence in this case is deterrence. He's being punished not just for his sins, but for the sins of everybody else who spams, to let them know that the law is real and that there will be serious punishment for getting caught.

      Everybody who continued to spam after the law was put in effect wasn't merely being annoying: he was deliberately and consciously doing something illegal. Whether it should be illegal or not, he was flouting a law designed to reduce vast quantities of annoyance, as well as forcing people to spend large amounts of money and time fighting that annoyance.

      So I agree that the punishment doesn't fit the crime (and you're hardly the only one to say that here on Slashdot.) Nor am I a huge fan of "making an example" of somebody; it seems a violation of the eighth amendment forbidding "cruel and unusual punishment".

      With a bit of luck this is the harshest sentence ever to be handed down. That "luck" would be a bunch of spammers say, "Whoa, we've got to get out of this business". It won't be enough, but if it results in half as much spam I'll be half as annoyed, and I won't be crying any particular tears for this guy while it happens.

      Or they may just move offshore, or use zombies, or hide better, etc. Hell, to avoid this law you need only move out of Virginia. But I suspect that at least a few spammers will decide that it's not profitable enough to risk jail now that jail is a very real possibility, and that's a few billion fewer spams we'll receive.
      • Re:Deterrence (Score:3, Interesting)

        by idiotnot ( 302133 )
        Hell, to avoid this law you need only move out of Virginia.

        Did you bother to RTFA? Spamking, there, is a resident of North Carolina. The statute says if the traffic passes through Virginia, the law applies. Some insane percentage (70%?) of internet traffic flows through northern Virginia (UUNet, Sprint, etc have backbones there), and the world's largest ISP is headquartered in Virginia.
    • That amounts to 450,000 dollars just to keep this guy from spamming us.

      And how much was he costing us? My small college just had to shell out for a spam blocking server because the load from the 60-70% of our email that was spam was killing our mail server. Then we had to have our network tech spend time installing it, configuring it and of course making sure it doesn't kill stuff like the dozens of mailing lists most faculty are on. And I'm not even counting the time people on campus have wasted deali

    • Re:Thoughts... (Score:3, Insightful)

      While spammers would argue that spam DOES count as free speech, I'd argue that it doesn't. While the content of the spam itself might be covered by free speech laws, the method of delivery is not. The problem with spam isn't that it's annoying, it's that it uses resources that someone else has to pay for. I don't know that it can be defined as theft, but in a legal sense it seems like it would be related to trespassing.

      Try doing this... go to a school, stand out front, and start reading some xxx stories
    • "Taxpayers of Virginia, is keeping this guy off the street really worth that much to you? Taxpayers of any other state, would you really want to adopt laws like this?"

      Yes. I'm a resident of VA, and I would gladly pay for this. The real reason being that this sets a precedent.
    • 9 years! That's an awful long time if you think about it. Especially for doing something that's pretty much being a mass annoyance.

      Sure, spam, like most forms of theft, is really just annoying. Someone steals your car? Well, there is a whole bunch of paper work to go through, but eventually you will get a new car from your insurance company. Sure, a huge amount of money has to be poured into the system in order to make the car theft just an annoyance, but it isn't like anyone was really hurt.

      The same

    • Re:Thoughts... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by siliconjunkie ( 413706 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:51PM (#12180352)
      Keep in mind that this guy was not just "being a mass annoyance", he was defrauding 10,000 to 17,000 individuals a month [slashdot.org] selling a "FedEx refund processor [washingtontimes.com]" that promised $75-an-hour work but did little more than give buyers access to a Web site of delinquent FedEx accounts.

      This guy made $750K per month [spamfo.co.uk] defrauding people with his sham product, so before you say "wow! 9 for just spamming, realize that spoofing email headers was just his mechanism for delivering his con game to millions of people per day in order to take advantage of that "sucker born every minute" that falls for get rich quick schemes that require them to send $30 to "find out how they can get rich quick with FedEx refunds".

      I don't feel sorry for this criminal. Considering the guy will be out in 3 years with good behavior, I think the punishment is a fine fit for the crimes this man commited.

      Then again, my /. sig (usually) points to a SpamVampire script designed to run up spammer's bandwidth bills, so I suppose you may want to take everything I say with a grain of salt, as I really don't like spammers.
      • Re:Thoughts... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by DarkHelmet ( 120004 ) * <mark&seventhcycle,net> on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:59PM (#12180470) Homepage
        Okay, there you go. The ABC article seemed a little light on information about this guy.

        But then, why not charge him with fraud? After all, that's crime already exists.

        Why charge him on spam alone? It's kind of like breaking a window to get into a house, robbing the people inside, and gunning them down, only to get charged with destruction of property.

        If he is a fraudster, then he is a fraudster. Get him on that count, right?

  • by punxking ( 721508 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:21PM (#12179888)
    How will that go over in prison?

    Convict: What are you in for?
    Jeremy Jaynes: um... spam.

    He's somebody's bitch for sure...
    • by Anonymous Coward
      I'm sure he won't be selling V|4Gra in the prison.
    • He's somebody's bitch for sure...

      Hmm. I don't agree with that. Being put in prison should be punishment enough, without the HIV risk.

      Still, it's interesting and amusing to wonder whether they'll have to keep him in solitary to keep him away from the nonces on account of the violence they'd do to him... :-)

  • What kind of "status" would a spammer would get in jail? (For example, child abusers are the lowest form of life on the prison evolutionary scale.) And how it will affect their behavior after relase, and how it will affect the behavior of spammers who haven't been caught but may end up fearing what awaits.
    • What kind of "status" would a spammer would get in jail? (For example, child abusers are the lowest form of life on the prison evolutionary scale.)

      Probably none what-so-ever. He's not reviled like child molestors. He's got no street-cred like bikers and gangsters or any of the 'real' criminals.

      Just another low-interest, white-collar guy who would have to fend for himself.

      Though, from my minimal understanding, that doesn't exactly put him in a good position either.

    • by Anonymous Coward
      What kind of "status" would a spammer would get in jail? (For example, child abusers are the lowest form of life on the prison evolutionary scale)

      You know, the myth of the rough justice karmic system in jail is highly disturbing: This seeming belief that federal prisoners are all bad people, but not bad bad, and they mete out justice to the truly bad people.

      Child diddlers get killed in prison when it gets someone some fame, and maybe they dream that it'll get them some retribution in the good book. Howev
      • by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:58PM (#12180458) Journal
        There's a suit in the courts seeking to overhaul the entire justice system, based on the premise of cruel and unusual punishment. I'm not sure how it's going, frankly I hope they win.

        Everyone in the Dept. of Corrections knows about the constant rape and torture of inmates, by inmates, and yet have done little to fix the problem in a century.

        Sentencing someone to rape is cruel and unusual by any stretch of the term.

        At any rate, prison makes bad people worse. There are dangers to society that need to be locked away, but the attitude of "throw everyone in for everything" is really warped. In my state, it's a manditory 10 years for being busted for anything drug related within 5 miles of a school. Get out a map of your city or town - unless you're way out on the farm, EVERYONE lives within 5 miles of a school. Erego, every college kid busted with a half a doobie gets his life ruined.

        And then theres the practice of civil forfeiture, a great way to get around the constitutional protection to be able to refuse to testify against your spouse. "Mrs Malda, either you testify that Rob was selling crack to 6 year olds, or we take your home, car, all your money, and then put your kids into protective custody so you'll never see them again"

        Cheer all you want about this, slashbots, this just sets a precedent for when you're in front of a Judge for downloading those Metallica mp3s. After all, a computer crime is computer crime to a clueless jury. Hell, the DMCA calls for even stiffer penalties than this, should you dare modify that PS2 to play copied titles.

  • I mean fuck. 9 years in jail? for sending emails? Don't get me wrong I hate spam as much as the next guy, but JAIL?

    I think he should be sentenced to 9 years of phone tech support at minimum wage with no raises and no opportunity for advancement.

    OR

    He should be forced to be a human spam filter at AOL for 9 years at minimum wage with no raises and no opportunity for advancement.

    I'd rather go to jail than face that cruel and unusual punishment.
  • by alephnull42 ( 202254 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:22PM (#12179905) Homepage Journal
    Unfortunately the sentence has been postponed while the case is being appealed."

    Not "Unfortunately" - the right to appeal is a Good Thing (TM).
    The right not to be punished while the case is under appeal is also a Good Thing (TM)
  • Does he really deserve jail time for spamming? Shouldn't we just stick him with a huge fine, freeze any offshore bank accounts, and leave him financially ruined? Yes, spammers are scum. Yes, I hate them too. But something bothers me about sending people to jail for that long for crimes that couldn't really cause physical harm to anyone else. Maybe a little time would be good, say 8-14 months. 9 years seems excessive to me. If the appeals court rejects the case and the sentence sticks, he'll spend more time
  • While I still prefer the "beat the tar out of them" method of deterring spammers, this is a step in the right direction.

    Althought past studies have proven that most of the worlds spam comes from the good ol' US of A, I have to wonder if punishments such as this will actually slow down the flow of spam, or if it'll push the criminals out of the country, and increase the amount from foreign countries. As much as I hate it, there's still a lot of money in Spam it appears, and I'm sure that there's quite a f
  • Ummm.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by suwain_2 ( 260792 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:24PM (#12179943) Journal
    I hate spam. It's really abnoxious.

    But 9 years in prison for it? You could easily spend less time than that for a violent felony.

    And if, as might be the case, the sentence was due not to sending mail, but due to using open relays / forging headers... We already have laws against fraud and the like.

    I despise spammers, but this guy's going to spend 3,287 days behind bars. For annoying people.
    • Re:Ummm.... (Score:3, Informative)

      This is just the perspective from the average Joe consumer who uses hotmail or yahoo mail.

      Think about this from the perspective of corporate companies. Everyday real money (significant amounts) are being spent to combat spam. Real resources must be hired, time is spent and hardware is acquired in order to accomodate spam. This translates into a real expenditure for enterprise-leve companies.

      I'm not saying it's completely justified but I don't think you have the full picture.
    • Re:Ummm.... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by pclminion ( 145572 )
      But 9 years in prison for it? You could easily spend less time than that for a violent felony.

      EXACTLY. People typically serve less time than this for murder.

      What does this mean?

      It means you are better off if you kill the witnesses.

  • What about the same adds nailed to your telephone pole?

    9 years anyone?

    AIK
  • Jail (Score:5, Funny)

    by XFilesFMDS1013 ( 830724 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:25PM (#12179960)
    Bet he's sorry now htat he sent those penis enlargement pill e-mails to incarcerated felons.
  • Woohoo! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by thed00d ( 822393 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:27PM (#12179994) Homepage
    I was really hoping for the death penalty on this conviction, but ya take what you can get.

    Seriously though, this guy will probably be out in 2 years, maybe 3. I think a more applicable punishment is removing these people from using electronic means. Like what the FBI and Secret Service used to do the "hacker" community. Take away their right to use a computer. Jail time or no, thats what is really going to stop these people from sending out spam.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • by havaloc ( 50551 ) * on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:31PM (#12180057) Homepage
    While 9 years might be a little harsh, I'm sick and tired of the spam problem, and he should be punished. If he actually goes to jail, I think it might make others think twice. Spamming pretty much equals theft in my eyes (as in bandwidth and time). What really made this article real for me is that I received an email from Gaven Stubberfield not a few days ago.
  • A Fair Sentence-- (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DrDebug ( 10230 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:33PM (#12180080) Journal
    If I were the judge, I would get a bit creative and sentence the spammer to one second in jail for each generated spam e-mail.

    Let them think on that for a while.... Heh.

    (For those of you who are mathematically challenged, that would be approximately 11.5 days per 1 million email spam messages).

  • I knew a 40-something-year-old man that went to jail for having sex with a minor. He was only in jail for around 5 years. Why in the world would you give a spammer 9? Seems pretty unbalanced to me.
  • by CohibaVancouver ( 864662 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:39PM (#12180162)
    According to cbc.ca, he received 10,000 credit card orders in one month, each for $39.95 US

    You can see why getting into this business is so tempting... Nearly four hundred thousand dollars in one month. As long as people keep buying, spammers will keep spamming...

  • by Caraig ( 186934 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @04:41PM (#12180201)
    Granted, we all hate spammers. We hate what they do, we hate the way they zombify unsecured gateways, we hate they way they thumb their nose at everyone, we hate what they try to sell, we hate that they try to scam millions a day. We all would love to see every spammer get harsh penalties.

    But, really... nine years?

    Isn't that a bit much? He won't be serving all that time, of course, but it's a lot of time for spamming.

    Wouldn't a better punishment be somethign vaguely like what they did to Mitnick? Forbid the guy from holding any sort of computer-related occupation for ten years. No computer for more than recreational purposes -- oh, heck, he doesn't need to play HL2, no computer at all. No opportunity to spam, and he'll have to make it or break it in a real job (for values of 'real job' which do not include 'IT jobs.') If he's smart, he can do office clerk work, maybe work his way up to office manager (he just can't work anywhere where the office manager also has to manage the computer system.) If he can't hack that, he goes into fastfood or retail. And if he absolutely can't make a living doing something other than spamming... ladies and gentlemen, we have here a dysfunctional human being.

    Compared to Mitnick, he'll still be getting off easy. But it makes a lot more sense than nine years in jail. And the taxpayers aren't paying for his stay in the slam.

    And if you want to get really creative, have him subscribed to every junk mail list in existence... with no opt-out.

    I don't know, it just seems like nine years is ridiculous when we don't even put away physically violent felons for that long.
  • by potus98 ( 741836 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @05:04PM (#12180533) Journal

    10M spams sent != 10M people annoyed. I'd be curious to know how many messages were...

    actually sent to valid addresses to begin with?
    dumped by relay-based filters (ORDB, etc)?
    screened by off-the-shelf anti-spam/virus s/w?
    screened by custom filters?
    deleted without opening?

    Sure, maybe 10M were sent, but I suspect a VERY small percentage actually made it to eyeballs. And of further interest: for the ones that actually did make it to eyeballs, what percentage of those viewers actually responded to the offer? Obviously, someone is out there responding to this crap if they keep sending it.

    Criminals are not usually charged with crimes based on the number of bullets they fired at a victim; rather, they are charged with the results of the bullet[s] striking the victim. New crimes may include; attempted spam, involuntary spam-slaughter, accidental spam, self-defense through use of deadly spam, statatory spam.

    Hmmm... statatory spam? Now that's interesting. What if your ad for pr0n makes it to a kid's in-box?

  • by trims ( 10010 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @05:34PM (#12180862) Homepage

    I see a lot of people decrying the 9-year length of sentence as excessive. I'd like to promote the idea that its actually lenient, given the harm to society.

    First, for those who haven't RTFA, this guy's crime wasn't just "spamming", it was the electronic equivalent of mail fraud. Take a look here [crimes-of-persuasion.com] for mail fraud penalties. Yup - that's right. Up to 5 YEARS per occurance. Not per person actually defrauded, but per mail sent.

    Furthermore, we seem to want to punish "blue collar" crime (physical violence and theft) as somehow more heinous than "white collar" crime (usually fraud and theft of money or intangible property). As a poster above noted, blue collar crime tends to have a severe impact on a very limited number of people, though in the aggregate it also attacks a locality's social fabric (consider the number of violent crimes in someplace like South Central LA and the correlation to property values there). White collar crime, however, tends to impact a large number of people to a lesser extent, but also directly attacks the fundamental underpinnings of the society: in particular, the fundamental trust in fairness and shared responsibility that is essential for modern societies to function.

    Fraud in particular is a particularly heinous crime from a societal standpoint, as it attacks the basic trust we put in financial transactions. A CEO giggering quarterly numbers is doing more than just cheating some stockholders out of a few cents in stock price - he's attacking the whole investing system which depends on truth in information dissemination. For if investors can't trust that a company's 10k annual report has real numbers, how can they invest?

    White collar crime needs to be far more heavily punished than it currently is. And, it is much more deterred by increased prosecution and higher penalties than blue collar crime. Blue collar crime is generally only deterred by increased police presence (i.e. preventative measures) and not by increased penalties. White collar crime, on the other hand, generally shows a strong correlation to the likelihood of prosecution and severity of penalty. This is due to the fact that most white collar crime is committed by the more wealthy segment of the population, who generally do a risk analysis before committing the crime (i.e. "I'll steal $100,000 from the company, if I'm only 10% likely to get caught and only face 3 months in jail, but won't steal if I've a 50% chance of getting caught or if the sentence will be 5 years").

    Also, remember that as "non-violent" criminals, white collar criminals tend to get put in low-security prisons, which cost much less to maintain than those in for violent crimes.

    Overall, I'd like to see us start to put the emphasis on white collar crime instead of blue collar crime. In the big picture, I think it's far more damaging to society, and is far more frequent than people think.

    There are some issues with this case (more specificly, the technicalities of the anti-spam law), but in the big picture, I think the sentence is exceedingly fair.

    -Erik

  • Male Rape (Score:3, Informative)

    by meehawl ( 73285 ) <{moc.liamg} {ta} {todhsals+maps.lwaheem}> on Friday April 08, 2005 @06:17PM (#12181336) Homepage Journal
    Nothing like the mention of "prison" to help a lot of jokers make light of the deployment of State-institutionalized rape as a coercive technology.
  • by kiddailey ( 165202 ) on Friday April 08, 2005 @06:22PM (#12181401) Homepage

    I realize that prison may not be much of a deterrent of crime of any kind, but I'd wager that if you just fined spammers or gave them a few years that there'd be absolutely no decline in the number of spammers flooding our e-mail with crap.

    It [the spam problem] continues because it is so easy and cheap to get away with -- and till now, there's no punishment.

    Add publicly announced huge fines and long jail terms to the mix and at maybe a few would-be spammers would at least think twice before taking part.

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