Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Patents Government The Courts News

Euro Patent Restart Demand Repeated by Parliament 204

sebFlyte writes "ZDNet UK is reporting that the European Parliament's Conference of Presidents has ratified and repeated the demands of the Parliament for the computer-implemented inventions directive to be sent back to the drawing board, even though the Commission has refused to re-start it after previous demands. From the article: "It is not certain that the Commission will comply with the request of the Parliament, nor that it will use the opportunity to draft a good text ... The new Commission is not obliged to follow the Parliament's request and they might still try to keep all options open and ask the Council to adopt the agreement of last May without a new vote, so as to gain even more options for themselves."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Euro Patent Restart Demand Repeated by Parliament

Comments Filter:
  • by briancnorton ( 586947 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @01:53PM (#11701921) Homepage
    Perhaps a bit off-topic, but if software CAN'T be patented, then couldn't one LEGALLY take that unpatented open source code and make a commercial product out of it, thus negating the GPL? (IANAL, and it shows)
  • Profit Anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by LordPhantom ( 763327 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @01:53PM (#11701938)
    FTA [i]Hugo Lueders, the director of public policy at pro-patent organisation CompTIA, is also unsure what will happen next. He contends that software patents are needed to ensure that the EU can keep to the goals set by the "Lisbon Agenda" --- that the EU will become the most competitive and dynamic knowledge-driven economy by 2010.[/i] Does that comment sound like: 1. Establish Software Patents 2. ??????? 3. Thriving and Inventive Computer Industry (ha!) 4. Profit! to anyone else?!?
  • Twats (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gowen ( 141411 ) <gwowen@gmail.com> on Thursday February 17, 2005 @01:54PM (#11701946) Homepage Journal
    I consider myself a pro-European Brit, but the intransigence and power of the unelected Commision to act in the face of the elected Parliament makes me foam at the mouth like Norman Tebbit. Is it really so hard for them to see that those with a mandate should be sovereign?

    I want a close and strong European Union -- I just don't want this European Union.
  • by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Thursday February 17, 2005 @01:57PM (#11702011) Homepage Journal
    I'd patent Paper-Shuffling, foot-dragging and obfuscation, but I see there's Prior Art.

    The players:

    European Parliament's Conference of Presidents

    the Commission

    the Parliament

    The new Commission

    the Council

    Ok, I'm lost. Though I think I can see why nothing's happening.

    It reminds me of a The Committee Game someone wrote on our PDP11 about 25 years ago. (The committee forms to form a plan of action to deal with the nefarious Kally Spaeth, but first they head up to McDonalds for refreshments in the arcane Dodge Dart, and generally it's a lot of running around without actually doing anything about the nefarious Kally Spaeth. I think it was in parody.)

  • by reality-bytes ( 119275 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @01:58PM (#11702018) Homepage


    You are confusing patents with copyright.

    The GPL conveys a concept for usage rights and copyright terms.
  • What the ?????? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Asprin ( 545477 ) <(moc.oohay) (ta) (dlonrasg)> on Thursday February 17, 2005 @02:10PM (#11702197) Homepage Journal

    Does the EU even *have* a government? This is so confusing! Motions that can be executed with no vote, organizational groups that do what they want regardless of the vote? What gives? It's like the thing was designed *by*, bureucrats *for* bureaucrats, and voting is just a technicality.

    Can somebody help to make me less ignorant and point me at an online EU-civics 101 tutorial that outlines how the EU government is organized, what are the responsibilities of the major components and a general overview of the rules?

    Please?
  • EU Law Trails? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @02:10PM (#11702199) Homepage Journal
    Would someone please clarify the players in EU lawmaking, and their role in the process? America at least has floated cartoons [school-house-rock.com] making our quaint process clear to naive schoolchildren (of any age). Where do members of the following bodies come from: election by people per nation / across the EU; or sent as representatives of national governments; or selected by the EU government itself? Where do the laws/regulations/rules/treaties/agreements they produce come from: national governments; EU government subdivisions; independent citizens; overseas committees like the US; nongovernment foreign or European policy organizations? And where do the rules they produce go: to another body for decision, to national governments for ratification, or just into effect as law?

    The players:
    - EU Parliament
    - EU Commission
    - EU Council
    - Any others (like, eg, some kind of "EU Parliament/Council Reconciliation Committe")?
  • This is great news (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ninjadoug ( 609521 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @02:12PM (#11702223)
    This is great news, I hope that everyone who has not contacted their MEP will do so via faxmymp or otherwise. I may even go to the effort of sending a letter in the post to mine to say thanks, and to continue to listen elected voters over companies. Remember the parliment makes the decision based on voters preferances, it it just up to us to tell MEPs what we want.
  • EU structure (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bfields ( 66644 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @02:12PM (#11702232) Homepage

    Conference of Presidents, Council, Commission, Parliament.... For the poor confused Americans among us, could somebody draw us the European equivalent of the "how a bill becomes law" flow chart? I'm completely lost.

    --Bruce Fields

  • Re:EU structure (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 17, 2005 @02:21PM (#11702370)
    1. a major player (france, UK, germany, italy) wants a piece of legislation to become a law

    -> 2. the draft is juggled between the comission and the parliament for years

    -> 3. in case of a directive the member states can play with the law for a few years before putting it to force

    -> 4. the comission tries to see if all the laws in member states are roughly the same that the comission and parliament passed

    -> 5a. if a small member state has unlawful deviations from the law passed by comission and parliament, somekind of punishment takes place unless it's hastily corrected

    -> 5b. if a large member state has unlawful deviations from tha law passed by comission and parliament, go back to #1

    -> 6. ???

    -> 7. a bill becomes a law
  • Re:Calling all Euros (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Tony Hoyle ( 11698 ) <tmh@nodomain.org> on Thursday February 17, 2005 @02:27PM (#11702460) Homepage
    The EU is not a government.

    It's primarily a trading body, but has pretentions to be more than that.

    The EU Commission is appointed by the individual member states, so whilst we can't vote for them directly we can kick out the morons who put them there.

    The EU Parliament is directly elected, but has little actual power - there are too many vested interests to ever give it any real power... it makes decisions over minor matters.

    The European Court is the bit that keeps the countries in line with their treaty obligations... they actually have the power to force governments to change their laws (the UK is often being slapped down these days because of its draconian 'anti-terrorist' laws like imprisonment without trial... we have out own camp X-Ray called Belmarsh, and the EU Court has basically ordered the government to close it).

    There's another one I think (I thought there were 4 parts to the EU... might be wrong).
  • by gr8_phk ( 621180 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @02:28PM (#11702471)
    Normally I read people outside the US saying interesting (negative) things about how our country looks from the outside. I have to say the EU is looking rather bad in this case. Questions that come to mind:

    Who is in charge over there?
    How is the government supposed to work?
    Why do they vote on some things and not others?
    Are there multiple mechanisms to pass laws?

    Are the "parliament" and the "commission" similar to our "house" and "senate"?? That would explain the back and forth, but it doesn't look like they both need to approve of this thing to make it happen.

    Regardless, I've told my european friends and coworkers to watch that their new government doesn't do like ours and take control from the states and later hand it over to large corporations. They all laughed.... even I didn't expect it to happen so quickly.

  • Re:What the ?????? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 17, 2005 @02:33PM (#11702535)
    I'm Dutch and like many Dutch we have no clue about how the European parliament works and we dont even WANT it.

    Our government will hold a public vote on the issue if we agree to sign the European constitution, but they already said that if we all vote NO they will ignore the public vote. They already signed the damn thing without consulting the general voting public.

    So if you think your US republicrats are bad, seems like Europe wants to be even better.

    Of course, Europe cant agree on a single language or a place for the European parliament so there is 2,500 translators to translate all laws to/from every single European language and constant moving around of ALL people in the European parliament to their new temporary habitat.

    With all this mess, I was betting my savings on USD and not EURO. Worked fine in the 1999-2000 timeframe I was working in the US. Unfortunately US politicians are even better at wasting money than our European version, so now I'm screwed.
  • Re:EU Law Trails? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 17, 2005 @03:50PM (#11703512)
    Wikipedia helps there:

    The European Commission [wikipedia.org]

    The European Commission (formally the Commission of the European Communities) is the executive of the European Union. Its primary roles are to propose and enact legislation, and to act as 'guardian of the treaties' which provide the legal basis for the EU. The role of the European Commission has some parallels with the executive body of a national government, but also differs in some ways (see below for details).

    The Commission currently consists of 25 Commissioners, one from each member state of the EU, supported by an administrative body of several thousand European civil servants. Each Commissioner takes responsibility for a particular area of policy, and heads a department called a Directorate General. The Commission is headed by a President (from November 2004, José Manuel Durão Barroso of Portugal)....

    The President of the Commission is chosen by the European Council, but the choice must be approved by the European Parliament. The remaining Commissioners are appointed by the member states in agreement with the President, who must decide the role of each Commissioner. Finally, the new Commission as a whole must be approved by the Parliament....

    In addition to its role in approving a new Commission, the European Parliament has the power at any time to force the entire Commission to resign through a vote of no confidence. (This requires a vote that makes up at least two-thirds of those voting and a majority of the total membership of the Parliament).

    The European Parliament [wikipedia.org]

    The European Parliament is the parliamentary body of the European Union.

    Other organisations of European countries such as NATO, the OSCE, the Council of Europe, and the Western European Union have parliamentary assemblies as well, but the European Parliament is unique in that it is directly elected by the people and has legislative power. The members of the parliamentary assemblies of the OSCE, the Council of Europe, and the Western European Union are appointed by national parliaments....

    The European Parliament is one half of a bicameral legislature (the other half is the Council of the European Union). It has co-legislative power with the Council in most EU policy areas (Codecision procedure), able to accept, amend or reject proposals for Regulations, Directives, decisions, Recommendations and Opinions as it sees fit.

    It also has a budgetary function, adopting the final budget of the European Union.

    Additionally, Parliament exerts a function of democratic supervision over all the EU's activities, particularly the European Commission, which it has the sole power to approve and dismiss (http://www.euabc.com/index.phtml?word_id=151), and calls to account fit....

    The European Parliament represents 450 million citizens of the European Union. Since 13 June 2004, there are 732 Members of the European Parliament (MEPs), with a proportionally larger representation for smaller member states. This number was temporarily raised to 788 to accommodate representatives from the ten states that joined the EU on 1 May 2004, but will remain fixed at 732 even after the accession of Romania and Bulgaria in 2007. (Author's note: that's even larger than the US Congress!)

    The Council of the European Union [wikipedia.org]

    The Council of the European Union forms, along with the European Parliament, the legislative arm of the European Union (EU). It contains ministers of the governments of each of the member-states of the EU. The Council of the European Union is sometimes referred to in official European Union documents simply as the Council, and it is of

  • by Jamie Lokier ( 104820 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @06:08PM (#11705267) Homepage
    to a year or two.

    We're clever enough to come up with our own techniques in the short term to compete with closed source companies doing interesting short term things. I'd have no complaint with that level of competition. If a technique is really crucial and unavoidable, we can just wait a couple of years.

    It's the medium to long term which is a problem, because we all converge on the same techniques - they are quite fundamental after all - and we need to be able to use our ideas in a reasonable time frame, not 27 years after having them...

    A registry of techniques would be nice as a library, but it's not really workable for patent prevention.

    Personally I come up with new techniques every day, as I'm sure many people here do. It's not feasible to write them all down, let alone register them in a formally searchable way. That's called "writing a book or article", and it's a lot of work in itself.

    Part of the problem is that we've been inventing things at a rapid pace for decades, but most ideas are left unused and not written anywhere until an opportunity when it's _appropriate_ to use them crops up.

    In other words, ideas sometimes get patented after lots of people have them, but before anyone actually uses them.

    For example, IBM's patent on RCU - that's something I independently came up with when writing a small OS a decade before RCU was mentioned on the Linux lists. But, I didn't have a use for it in that OS (which I deleted all copies of anyway), and I can't prove prior art. I could have "published" it, but frankly publishing every idea like that is more work than it's worth.
    I'm sure that has happened with many people here.

    (I don't know the filing date of IBM's patent; that example is just to illustrate how potential prior art is easily lost).

    If good ideas (of the currently patentable kind) were rare, then a registry would work. But when you're coming up with neat ideas daily, then if there was a registry of "official" prior art, a lot of ideas that people have had and maybe talked about would not have the chance to get in.

    So even if there was a registry, we would still have unreasonable problems caused by the patent system.

    -- Jamie
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:08PM (#11705919)
    Since BBC is developing open source software too, doesn't that make them part of the movement? http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/dirac/overview.sh tml [bbc.co.uk]
  • by zogger ( 617870 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @08:20PM (#11706547) Homepage Journal
    There is no practical difference between a written book or short story and a piece of code. Both take someone with at least some sort of minimal skills and on up from that point to sit down and type up various things in an unique sequence in some arbitrary language. And that's it. If a dozen people write the code it could become a big program, if a dozen people all write and collaborate on a project it could become a magazine instead of a novel, in other words, big hairy deal. If you accept software patents it should follow then you should accept patenting novels or magazines, and I think you'd find it hard to find many people who thought that wise.

    Civilization and "creative progress" existed for millenia before this scam of patenting software itself got invented, and that's all it is is a paperwork razzle dazzle shuffle scam. It happened during the rough time span when the financial phony products "industry" grifters were running out of other paper product snake oil scams to milk people out of their cash for. Been an expensive elaborate joke and skim and put the con on consumers ever since.

    All this valuable "software patenting" stuff creates so called "patented products" that don't even have a normal consumer warranty with them, another *obvious* scam and rip off, and you have no right to resell, dissasemble, zip, like you would if you bought an honest tangible patented product, acme vacuum cleaner for instance. I don't need to sign a "license" to resell my vacuum cleaner at a yard sale,or repay the same fee yearly. I don't need to worry about "violating the law" if I take a screw driver to it, I don't need a "license to vacuum", I am not forced to destroy the vacuum rather than reselling it. But, "patented software" all that applies to conversationally speaking. Sorry, you may have the slickest program in the world, but the second there's a patent attached to it it becomes part of an elaborate fraudulent congame.

    Copyright-acceptable more or less, but patent? HAHAHAHA!

    As to those middle man skimmers with their "capital", they existed for millenia also, the planet has always been infested with moneychangers, so be it, they'll find a way to weasel their way into some other easy money con without software being patented. -> "the hedged derivative shortly to the longwise reverse floating point waved bond share of your perpetual debt note" or some ridiculous babbling noise like that. Software patents are a variant on that scam, nothing more. The software can be good bad or mediocre quality, that ain't the point, the point is the patent part is a middleman skim dodge. Easy to see, too. Those black suited grifters have amazing imaginations when it comes to getting out of their own productive work and using someone else's, so don't you worry none about them, in china or any place else, coming up with some way to "profit", they'll think up a few dozen more ways before noon if you take software patents back away from them at 8 am.

He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion

Working...