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Privacy It's funny.  Laugh. Communications

This Call May Be Monitored ... 443

Iphtashu Fitz writes "We've all heard it. The recorded message when you call technical support or your bank or credit card company: 'This call may be monitored for quality assurance purposes.' But has it ever occurred to you that people actually DO listen in? Approximately 2 percent of these calls are listened to either live or after the fact, and it may come as a surprise that Big Brother even listens to what you may say while you are on hold. The people who monitor these calls routinely hear arguments between spouses or parents and children, people yelling at pets, and all sorts of other domestic disputes."
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This Call May Be Monitored ...

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  • by fembots ( 753724 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:03PM (#11324946) Homepage
    Just pretend talking to your friend while on hold, discussing the option to switch to another competitor "if this call doesn't solve my problems", that might get you something.
  • Re:Here We Go Again (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:06PM (#11325011)
    I'd like to tell their stupid machine that I'm recording their call; and keep the record for when I need to complain to their management about poor customer support.

    I assume if I tell their on-hold-music-machine "I'm recording your call too" that would be OK.

  • by crypty ( 768045 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:08PM (#11325055) Homepage
    Tele ___insert occupation here___ get very upset when you offer to record them. THey just stop dead in their tracks and wait... They are not really much fun..
  • Re:Here We Go Again (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:10PM (#11325081)
    Dear Michael,

    You got served.

    Yours truely,
    Anonymous Coward
  • It's true (Score:4, Interesting)

    by paranode ( 671698 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:10PM (#11325087)
    I interviewed for a phone support job a few years ago when I was a college student. Before I even talked to the interviewer, they took me to the floor and hooked me up to listen with a support rep. This was a bank, I won't say which one. I listened to account numbers, socials, you name it. I wasn't even an employee. I didn't end up getting the job, either (though I was sort of glad after hearing the irate customers for ten minutes).

    And yeah, they can hear you on hold, so do be careful.

  • HA (Score:2, Interesting)

    by megarich ( 773968 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:12PM (#11325112)
    Well my question is if these people say hear arguments, death threats and what not and now someone gets murdered, should they be held liable because they knew something could happen but didn't act upon it?

    Of course they won't be but all I'm saying if you are gonna eavesdrop, you should take ALL responsibilities that come along with it....
  • Fact is... (Score:0, Interesting)

    by beatnitup ( 616700 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:12PM (#11325113)
    I used to work tech support for a major ISP back when I was in highschool and our calls where monitored as well. The calls were mostly monitored in order to insure proper instructions support were provided...BUT...there where notes and logs of each transaction taken and *Very Often* there were notes and warnings about horrible and abusive clients. Not that any frequent /.'er would ever call tech support.
  • by tomhudson ( 43916 ) <barbara.hudson@b ... m ['son' in gap]> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:12PM (#11325126) Journal
    however I'll keep my finger near the mute button
    Have you tested yuor mute button - a LOT of phones, if you listen carefully, you can still hear someone who's pressed their MUTE button - it doesn't completely cut off the sound.
  • by Rude Turnip ( 49495 ) <valuation AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:16PM (#11325222)
    ...and it really was for quality assurance purposes. When I trained be a customer service rep for CoreStates bank, they would have you tap into various reps phone calls and listen-in to learn how the job gets done. Sometimes you would even physically sit next to that rep and listen-in, unbeknownst to the customer. The supervisors would also listen in to random calls to make sure everyone is being friendly, helpful, etc.

    Call monitoring is a quality control function of the customer service department of the company you do business with, not the CIA/FBI/NRO/Freemasons.

  • listening in. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by RoundTop-VJAS ( 580788 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:17PM (#11325227)
    I work at a support center (one where there is no punch menu system other than "if you wish to leave a voice mail" [and get ignored[) and this is very important for us as if a customer flies off the handle we can record it...and then threaten to cut the customer off internet until he behaves nice.

    Other than that, mostly it is employee review, etc.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:22PM (#11325340)
    I guess "supporting the troops" has been redefined by conservatives as "sending troops into battle without sufficient manpower or equipment under pretense while lowering their combat pay and family benefits and forcing them to stay indefinately and all this while keeping one's head firmly placed in one's butt about the potential that some people in Iraq might not like us being there."

    If this is SUPPORTING the troops, I find it hard to believe that Kerry/Edwards could have done worse, other than randomly selecting some military personnel and personally killing them on primetime television. Or maybe I just missed my govt-sponsored ration of logic-altering substance today.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:27PM (#11325430)
    One:
    When I'm on hold, and can't hear them, I have an expectation that they can't hear me, because that is how 99% of phones work when you press the hold button. And there's no reason they should be recording stuff when on hold and I'm not talking to their guy.

    Two:
    "The call may be monitored." is NOT the same thing as "This call may be RECORDED." If I hear that the call may be monitored I have always assumed that meant that someone might be listening in on the call AT THAT MOMENT. And monitoring != recording.
  • Re:Here We Go Again (Score:2, Interesting)

    by cavemanf16 ( 303184 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:31PM (#11325517) Homepage Journal
    I agree, michael is once again being a socialist prick. If he had actually read the frickin' article he'd also notice this gem:

    Recently, Pike stumbled onto a call where a young male customer was flirting with a female service agent at a cell phone company. After some giggles and banter, the woman relented and gave her personal phone number to the customer. Pike quickly alerted the cell phone company to the phone date.

    Notice here that the phone monitor dude, Pike, is not calling the cell phone company to go get that evil customer. No. He's calling to tell the cell phone company that they have a representative of their company setting up a date with a customer. This obviously puts the company in a sticky situation since they're most likely NOT in the business of being a match-making service, and this kind of behavior is almost certainly NOT allowed on "company time."

    And I have listened to these monitored calls. Being the evil Big Brother that I am, I can tell you that not once have I even cared how the customer acted or behaved. All we're concerned about is how well did our agents handle the customer's question, complaint, or problem. More often than not we see agents not doing the right thing, just like the article mentioned. I truly do not see how this story relates to "My Rights Online" AT ALL!

    I hope michael gets sick and tired of our berating his pathetic trolling and leaves /. soon, just like Katz.
  • Re:Here We Go Again (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ikea5 ( 608732 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:34PM (#11325566)
    Didn't they just informed you that "this call, MAY, be recorded"?

    So yes, you may record the call without telling them since they just give you the consent.

  • by Teppy ( 105859 ) * on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:40PM (#11325652) Homepage
    Actually you don't have to, at least not in Pennsylvania. If both parties know the call may be recorded it's perfectly legal to record it. Of course they never expect *you* to record the call.

    I bought a handy device [vidicode.com] to do just that, and it's already paid for itself: I foolishly signed up with what turned out to be a fly-by-night phone company. Our phone lines would cut out every morning for between 5 and 20 minutes - no outgoing calls, and incoming calls would receive a message saying "could not be completed as dialed."

    I reported the problem to them many times, and they could never fix it, so I tried to cancel the service. They refused, claiming the contract hadn't been fulfilled. So I switched to the old phone company and all was fine with the service.

    A couple months later I get a letter from a lawyer demanding $1200 for the cancelled contract. I played the totally legal recordings (after all, they said "this call may be monitored or recorded") back of me reporting the shitty service to their techs, and voila, the lawyer went away!
  • by Java Pimp ( 98454 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:45PM (#11325714) Homepage
    In Illinois [legal-forms-kit.com] it's illegal to eavesdrop on your own conversation...

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:56PM (#11325874)
    This begs another question (and possibly a warning to those monitoring calls). . .

    There are currently 12 states that require "All Party Concent" in order to legally record a phone conversation. If I am on the phone with one of these individuals (in one of the states obviously), and they are recording a conversation that I am having with a third party, isn't it the case that "All" parties haven't agreed to the recording. It would be nice to hear from someone who could say, "IAAL" instead of me (IANAL).

  • by jcostantino ( 585892 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @04:58PM (#11325910) Homepage
    I worked for a company many years ago and we had a job at a large local company. The (jackass) guy who was responsible for the work was talking to the owner of the company and saying some really shitty things about the customer ("I've got them eating out of my hand" and other things) while making an OUTGOING call. Needless to say, the owner of the company was FURIOUS and booted the guy off the premises and told my boss to never let him come back out to the job site. We almost lost the job because some cocky jerkoff was shooting his mouth off about the customer.

    That action led to this particular guy's firing. He was a typical arrogant MCSE who's shit was ice cream and nobody could tell him anything he didn't already know - unless it was wrong and he would certainly let them know without hesitation.

  • by Herr Joebob ( 716476 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:01PM (#11325967)
    Of course they never expect *you* to record the call.


    Sure they do... When I was doing phone support part of the training was to tell us that customers may record the calls, and if the customer warned us about it to tell them it was fine. The attitude was that it's the customer's call anyway, so they can record it if they want to.

    I'm sure it depends on the company, attitudes may vary, etc. But they're certainly aware that some customers will do it.
  • by croFrog ( 711292 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:04PM (#11326007)
    I use to work at a call center, and the funny calls where passed around the office and played for everyones enjoyment. And you really do here all sorts of crap, when I use to place people on "hold" when working on my computer I would just use the mute button, the best is when they say how much they hate your company or ask how much the competion was again, even though you are solving there problem. I had one of call me some choice words, I just un muted and said how all that was very interesting, and how I didn't know I liked to yeah to fuck goats. Good times.
  • by WebCrapper ( 667046 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:12PM (#11326139)
    I use to work Tech Support for an ISP in PA and I can say that while you're technically true, most companies will refuse to work with you if you where recording the call. That was a normal thing with us - if you told us you where recording, we got off the phone within one minute. Why? Because this is normally someone trying to catch a company screwing up, either by accident or on purpose. Those types of people look for ways around extra fees and such. Now, I've never had someone admit to recording a major complaint (most of it was minor like "my email hasn't worked for 2 days" - wrong password; or "My connection speeds suck" - upgrade driver), but due to policy, I would have gotten off the phone anyway.

    Also, I've monitored calls from the start of the menu (for technical support, press 1....). Things I've heard have been a few bathrooms (along with normal noise associated with it), sex, arguements, etc... Not very fun stuff because people just don't think. My wife didn't understand why I would sit totally quiet while on hold and not allow her to talk - until I told her a few stories.
  • by TFloore ( 27278 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:12PM (#11326142)
    They are legally bound to warn you that you may be monitored or recorded however
    Kinda.

    This varies state-by-state. Some states are One-Party Notify, some states are Two-Party Notify.

    Generally, the legal limitation is on the party doing the recording, not explicitly either the calling or called party. No, I don't know if this is a limit based on where the company is incorporated, or where the phone support personnel are located. 3rd party and Offshore phone support probably make this all kinds of complicated.

    This makes for some fun little interactions. For instance, when Maryland (a 2-party notify state) cops want to record someone they are calling on the phone, they drive over the state line into Virginia (a 1-party notify state), make their phone call, record it without notifying the call recipient, and have a legal recording of a phone call that they could not have made in the state whose laws they are enforcing.

    Of course, IANAL, and this is not legal advice. Just be aware.
  • Lack of priorities (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:12PM (#11326150)
    So why exactly are they listening in, when they could instead be responding to my actual question? Is that why I'm spending so much time on hold? No, I didn't RTFA. I just thought I'd read /. while I'm waiting for the f'ing tech support to come back.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:20PM (#11326259)
    That's why I make it my prerogative to say as many stupid or weird things into the phone while i'm on hold... or sing crappy songs (badly i might add) JUST in case someone might be listening on the other end. As soon as someone picks up, I'm back to being normal and polite so i usually know if the person answering heard me before taking the call (when they've been listening, they're thrown off to hear me speak normally).

    My ISP even has a neato feature where they get you through to a person instead of their Answertron 2000 if you swear loudly while on hold. It's just much faster than waiting for the slowpoke machine voice to speak out it's menu.
  • by CmdrGravy ( 645153 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:37PM (#11326518) Homepage
    If I hadn't already posted I would have modded up that up because it's absolutley correct.

    I have worked in various kinds of tech support for 6 years and it's just simple human nature; if people are nice to you - polite and helpful you are much more likely to be the same with them.

    Whenever anyone in the office got a call from a particulary abusive, annoying or arrogant customer they would make sure everyone got the name so regular callers did get very definite widespread reputations.

    People who were constantly annoying got a pretty awful service from us since no one saw any reason to help those people whilst people who were polite and helpful would have everyone going out of their way to be helpful to them - they could even have the odd tantrum but we'd understand because usually they would apologise afterwards - unlike the assholes.

    Just remember it costs you nothing to be polite to people and you will always be able to find out a lot more about what is happening with your query if you are polite than if you spend your time cursing the person you are talking to, their company and life in general.
  • by Darth23 ( 720385 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:39PM (#11326554) Journal
    I always try to curse out the company I'm holding for while I'm on hold. It's really satisfying to know that someone might actually get to hear this negative feedback - because Service Sucks these days. Considering the fact that the US has moved to a 'service economy', this is a really bad thing.
  • by jaguar5150 ( 822144 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @05:50PM (#11326696)
    This reminds me of the time I called my ISP to have them fix the perpetually increasing ping on my connection.

    I requested a credit to my account as I was not able to use the connection for what I ordered the service for: Playing games! [read: surfing porn]

    The person on the other end of the phone put me on "hold/mute" while I was running their "tests". He proceeds to start making fun of my request for a credit and blah, blah, blah to his co-workers. I heard every word of what he said and when he came back to the line I asked him if he thought it was funny. He replied with, "No, sir why?" I said, "Next time, you might want to test your mute button to make sure it works before making comments to your co-workers about customers currently on the phone with you."

    He sheepishly replied, "I'm sorry, sir. You should have a $20 credit on your next statement."
  • by nolife ( 233813 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @06:09PM (#11327002) Homepage Journal
    I would assume that if a customer feels the need to record a support call, they are probably trying to cover their own buts. Why would you feel you had to disconnect and what made you feel uncomfortable with being recorded? If you were doing a good job and following the requirements of your compnay, there will be no problems at all. If you want to return cuss words and act like the potential idiot on the other line then you may have issues. Are you afaid you would guide someone in the wrong direction or feel your support would be the suck? I've done support for companies at all different levels, sometimes with a group of many, and others by myself. Someone recording a call would not bother me at all as I am accountable for what I say either way and I am the same person either way and I am confident in what I tell them. If I do not know, I tell them, if I am unsure of something, I tell them, if I need time to research and call them back, I do. If it is something i can not handle, I find someone that can or call them back.
    Unless you are making stuff up on the phone and providing people with bogus information, you should have no worries at all. If your company is giving YOU obviously wrong information and you pass it along, you are not the problem, the compnay is and any recordings provided would just prove you were following the company policy. If a If I was dealing with a company that had a "get rid of them" if they record policy, I would be looking elsewhere for service or expect crappy service if I did really need help.

  • by redelm ( 54142 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @07:09PM (#11327878) Homepage
    IANAL, but recording anyone (phone/person) is usually legal if _one_ party consents. Only a few states (including CA) require two party consent. Interstate calls are governed by US Federal law, which is one party consent. It's not perfectly clear if a Californian can record a call to Texas, but the Texan sure can.

    Notifying someone is mostly a courtesy, but can be used to imply consent.

  • by hobbesx ( 259250 ) on Tuesday January 11, 2005 @07:59PM (#11328521)
    Somewhat related:


    When I worked in a call center, most of the reps there (myself included) would mute the line, rather than put a customer on hold. I figured it's because they kept call stats, and reps with lots of hold time were spoken to. Regardless, everyone who used mute instead still asked the customer to hold. You'd be surprised the things that you can hear when a customer thinks that no one is listening. As strange as it is, lots of times what you heard would be a tip on what they were actually trying to get, that they wouldn't tell you when you're on the line, so you could actually help them better than if you hadn't heard their 'hold' comments.

    Of course, if the comments were them admiting they were wrong to someone nearby, 'better' doesn't necessarily mean in their favor...

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