Are Your Peripherals Monitoring You? 393
An anonymous reader writes " Engadget is reporting that
'Lexmark, makers of printers and scanners, has been caught monitoring users' printer, scanning, and ink cartridge usage.'" Newsgroup comp.periphs.printers readers noticed the software; the Engadget report says that "Lexmark say they're just tracking printer and cartridge usage, but the registration information and packets being sent say otherwise."
Not clear? (Score:4, Interesting)
What am I missing? Couldn't somebody just install the program and sniff the information out of the packets?
Gesh, this is slashdot...
Data stealing (Score:4, Interesting)
ZoneAlarm (Score:5, Interesting)
Didn't the users agree to this monitoring? (Score:4, Interesting)
Didn't TFA indicate that... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:ZoneAlarm (Score:5, Interesting)
Xerox network lasers (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know what was in those mails - but a google search revealed an article about a large data mining system based on Oracle; I think the main intent was to detect reasons for early failure - but who knows what happened to the data.
As every printer manufacturer... (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally I dislike inkjet printers since they usually are causing a mess by spreading the ink everywhere, and the printouts are normally not water-resistant either! Another thing is that the ink cartridges tends to dry up and cause messy pritouts if any if you leave the printer unused for some months. Only way out is to buy a new cartridge.
Laser Printers are a little better, as long as you have a decent vacuum cleaner arond to catch any excess toner. At least they don't mind being offline for a year in decent conditions. (maybe you will have to shake down the toner in extreme cases)
In all, tracking printer use should only be acceptable if the user is notified beforehand, and that the data communicated is easy for anybody to check regarding it's content. The user must be able to disallow any usage tracking.
A legitime use of printer usage tracking that I see is actually to let the printer manufacturer find out the most common errors occured with a printer, and which colors that are most frequently used in order to optimize coming models on the market. But as noted beforehand, the user must have his/hers last say in this. Relate this to the error reporting that Microsoft offers for Windows XP. (Not that it actually catches ALL problems)
My 1/2 cent opinion...
Re:Another Posible Reason (Score:5, Interesting)
More likely they would instruct the driver to go into "crap quality" mode. Then they could point to the lousy print you get with 3rd party ink and say "See! Those other ink cartriges aren't as good as ours! Look how much better the print is when you use genuine Lexmark brand ink cartriges!"
At least, that's what I would do if I was a sleazy, money-grubbing corporation....
broadband routers (Score:3, Interesting)
Are yet just, plain, mad? (Score:3, Interesting)
Are they in league with the MPAA or something? Or do they just want to get extra money from users.
The fact is, refill cartridges perform a valuable role: they keep the retail cartridges within bounds. If it wasnt for the refill biz, the vendors would be tempted to charge even more.
As for the spyware stuff -if this is in UK print drivers (as the zdnet UK article implies), then it could be illegal under our data protection laws. It certainly ought to be banned. All spyware should be illegal.
That is the nice thing about OSS -you can check the print drivers, and anyway, like linux.org or sf.net cares about your printing. Interestingly, spyware is very rare in the macos world too. There is something about windows that just encourages it. I think it is the fact that Ms effectively ship windows with spyware-to-MS preinstalled, then the home PC vendors join in, giving the green light to everyone else.
I despair.
Slashdot are evil port scanners (Score:0, Interesting)
Here is my firewall log:
11/13/2004 23:14:31 Port Scan Minor Incoming TCP 66.35.250.150 05-00-20-00-05-00 * MY IP *
00-00-05-00-00-00 * My Name * BEAST3 Normal 1 11/13/2004 23:27:33 11/13/2004 23:27:33
Somebody is scanning your computer.
Your computer's TCP ports:
80, 1080, 3128, 8000 and 8080 have been scanned from 66.35.250.150.
2 Computers (Score:3, Interesting)
#1 - for internet useage only...
#2 - for everything else...
Re:Newer print drivers only? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Are yet just, plain, mad? (Score:5, Interesting)
Frankly, I think you may have it backward. Lexmark isn't the crack dealer: we are. They get the first hit (i.e., we give them fifty bucks for the printer) and then they keep getting periodic hits every time we run out of ink. The problem is, printer manufacturers have growned accustomed (nay, addicted) to this way of doing business: they like that unending revenue stream from little boxes filled with ink. It's the way of the modern world, i.e. don't just sell somebody something once, sell it to them over and over and over.
I'd like to know how many ink cartridges you have to buy before you've paid them back for the loss they took on the printer itself (assuming they take such a loss, China makes things pretty cheap nowadays) and when those sales start becoming pure gravy. Hell, if Lexmark wants to use those spyware drivers to help their customers they could do this: keep track of the number of times the cartridge has been replaced, and when the company has made back what it lost on the printer sale, send the user a discount card. The user could then take that card to any store that sells Lexmark cartridges and get some money off. Hell, if Lexmark wants to accumulate personal data in spyware fashion they should give something to their customers for the privilege, much like the major grocery store chains do.
Whatever, I really don't like Lexmark anyway and I'm proud to say I've never owned a Lexmark product. Talk about a company that is ethically challenged
Re:2 Computers (Score:2, Interesting)
>
>#1 - for internet useage only...
>#2 - for everything else...
I've actually recommend this to a couple people lately that had me build them second computers to do things like photo editing. One of them has followed my advice, the other told me it was great advice, then the next time I was at her house, she had plugged it into her cable connection with her other PC.
I run a second PC at home that is off the net, it can be a pain though. Software needs updates, some software makes it difficult to install and register without a connection. So many vendors now assume all pc's are net connected.
Re:printing ripoff (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Not clear? (Score:2, Interesting)
In Nebraska, it is a class IV felony to use another party's computer resources without their consent. As Lexmark has continued to deny their software is conducting surveillance on its customers, it is pretty clear they've lost an argument that their customers gave them consent to spy on them. This is pretty evident unauthorized use, and needs a few AG's to get busy (please, none of this "overworked/underpaid" crap which I've heard AG offices use before. Everyone is overworked and underpaid. Get used to it or resign so we can find someone competent to work in your office using our money).
Slashdotters using these products should sent registered letters to their state AG office filing a complaint and requesting criminal investigation. Follow up in thirty days if no progress has been made and send letters to your governors office indicating the AG has not proceeded in a corporate criminal investigation. Contact your newspapers and let them know that the AG's office is permitting corporations to spy on state citizens without consequence. Spyware is becoming a significant fear for common people and AGs that ignore it will soon be returned to private practice.
The other thing that needs done is closing up the EULA loophole. Lexmark presumably did not try specifying its right to spy on customers in its EULA, but others do and given increasingly restrictive return policies on technology products by retailers like Best Buy (as reported on
Absent this form, vendors using spyware should be *criminally* responsible. This is obviously a wish-list item, but would have an appropriate limitation on corporate spyware. Having AGs enforce existing laws, on the other hand, should be done immediately and informed Slashdotters can have an influence by submitting complaints and following up. As always, send those letters via certified/registered mail - it's the way to let the other party know you're putting them on notice.
LaserJet 4 Plus is hard to beat. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:really! (Score:5, Interesting)
10 sell printer
20 sell inkcartage
30 disable inkcartage via internet
40 goto 20
Re:printing ripoff (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Not clear? (Score:4, Interesting)
Another possibility is some printers, if they get more than a certain number of images with the pattern lock-up, requiring an expensive service call from a factory rep, who's policy is when they see that error code, will report it to the Secret Service. Immagine what it could do the the Secret Service's ability to investigate real crimes if I posted some pictures of Sara Michelle Geller nude with the pattern on a P2P network.
Re:printing ripoff (Score:2, Interesting)
I have bought a Lexmark printer that supports Postscript and I have been very happy with it since it works very well with a relatively simple setup on the Linux side - thanks to the ps support.
However, after these stupid stunts from Lexmark I probably wouldn't buy from them again.
Re:printing ripoff (Score:2, Interesting)
Net Assumption (Score:3, Interesting)
Normally they get me what i need, and I dont have to threaten them with a law suit....
Re:Are yet just, plain, mad? (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Xerox network lasers (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, they can be configured to send out e-mail to supply adminsitrators (in this case, picture Carol, the PHB's secretary in Dilbert) to ask for ordering new supplies with a handy web page served from the printer, if human intervention is desired. You're sure it was not something like this?
Re:What about Macintosh Drivers (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Not clear? - profit of course ! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Not clear? (Score:2, Interesting)
It is a pattern of 5 small circles that is like the Orion constellation.
It has apparantly been included on the back of the new $50 bill. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._fifty_dollar_b
I even found a program that supposedly adds the marks to your own dowuments, but you iwll have to look for yourself, because I can't view either postscript, or pdf.
link here: http://wildspark.com/eurionize/ [wildspark.com]
What? No one remembers the Printer sourced... (Score:3, Interesting)
What? No one remembers the printer embedded logic bomb which kept taking out the computer system of a certain power facility some decades ago when a disgruntled employee knew he was being fired/laid off and write a program into the memory of the printer unit which could initiate a communication to the main computer and wipe it out?
By sending packets out like this, Lexmark is opening up a can of worms.
All this means to me is:
A driver that goes out to a website to upload data could just as well go out to a website and download code. Someone who can hijack that domain will probably find a way to screw with the system.
Economics of Printer Cartridges (Score:2, Interesting)
Printer consumables (e.g. ink & paper) generate a lot of revenue for the retail outlets as well as the manufacturer. Companies that sell cheaper ink and more expensive printers will have difficulty placing their printers in retail outlets. The cost per page of large photocopiers is very low, but you don't see them sold at big-box stores.
While retails outlets were the primary source of printers this was a stable situation. What has changed recently is that companies like Dell have enetered the direct sales market and so cut out the retail vendor. Retail can still make some money on consumables since there is some compatibility (e.g. Dell OEMs Lexmark).
But manufacturer's have no forced commitment to retail stores and if the Internet allows them to bypass the middleman and do direct sales, they will attempt to do so. In fact they must in order to compete with companies like Dell. At the same time Dell can't completely undercut the existing price regime because Lexmark still needs to see positive economics for their own printers even though they also build printers for Dell. Cut price ink would cannibalize their own sales more than the benefit of the increased hardware sales.
In order to make up for the loss of retail sales - and the loss of retails sales information - both Dell and Lexmark have created software that tracks usage and directs the user to the manufacturer's website *before* they run out. Otherwise, people will tend to impulse buy from retail rather than wait a week for delivery.
So the manufacturer's want the information, they need it in advance of ink exhaustion to bypass retail, and they can collect all sorts of information that they probably don't need but might find useful.
It's the 'might find useful' category that causes the greatest privacy concerns, and are probably not necessary for the immediate purposes, but it's easy to collect and few people complain. So far.
Fight back (Score:3, Interesting)
It's nasty and somewhat immoral, but sadly it seems like the only way companies will learn.
Lexmark P2P??? (Score:1, Interesting)
The information is as follows for those who are fortunate enough not to have any Lexmark products.
VALUE "Comments", "MarkVision for Windows '95 New P2P Server (32-bit)"
VALUE "CompanyName", "Lexmark International, Inc."
very very scary!!!
Easy 1-2-3 solution... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd include OS/X in that, but unfortunately, I'm using a Hewlett-Packard print manager on my iBook, which could possibly be spying on me right now. It's a bummer, but I paid 1800 bucks for this thing (the iBook, not the printer), and I don't want to quit using it until it dies of old age. Sigh...
In the meantime, I have a couple of old mil-spec laptops running Slackware that can take over when the iBook dies, so I guess that's pretty cool.