What's Going On in Canada? 592
Jack Action writes "Up in Canada, the Privacy Commissioner of the province of British Columbia is recommending an immediate freeze on all outsourcing of public data to US-connected firms, Reuters and the CBC are reporting. After extensive consultations, the Privacy Commissioner has found that the USA Patriot Act threatens the private data of citizens even if they don't live in the USA (repeat: non-Americans are at risk). You can visit the Commissioners website, and download a summary or the full report." And reader digity writes "The long-standing Canadian battle on grey-market satellite dishes took a surprising turn in a Quebec courtroom yesterday. The grounds: freedom of expression. Yet another reason to come to the Great White North!"
DTV (Score:3, Interesting)
Let freedom ring.
Oh Canada (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't Like This? Hit 'em where it hurts. (Score:5, Interesting)
If enough Canadians who value their privacy take similar action we might see some amendments to the patriot act introduced. Fighting terrorism, etc. has been, and always will, be of secondary importance to the american government. It's business that really matters to them, and we're one of the few nations on Earth that do enough trade with the U.S. to place an effective ammount of pressure on them to do away with laws that compromise the privacy of citizens from other countries. At the very least we can pressure them into modifying the patriot act so that it only effects U.S. citizens. After all, did we elect Bush?
Okay okay... We don't really know who or *if* Bush was elected, but we damned well know it wasn't us who did it!
oh funny story :( (Score:5, Interesting)
Probably... (Score:5, Interesting)
With more and more privacy-invading legislation being installed, the US will rapidly become unusable to any business that has trade secrets to protect, or deals with private customer data.
Canada has put in a nice document with recommendations what most of the world already knows and acts on.
Re:Oh Canada (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm actually surprised Canada would have a law like the satellite dish law on the books to begin with. And hopefully with the amount of cross-border business done between the US and Canada the checkbook will do what the activists couldn't to the Patriot Act.
Re:Not only data going to the US.. (Score:5, Interesting)
This is not entirely true. According to the EU Data Protection Directive [cdt.org], in order for data to be transferred out of the EU/EEA to third countries, the country in question has to have "adequate level of protection," cf article 25. Adequacy is determined by various factors such as existing data protection legislation and professional rules and security measures in relation to the type and sensitivity of the data being transferred.
Re:Typo in article headline (Score:5, Interesting)
Bin Laden also said the Bush administration was like repressive Arab regimes "in that half of them are ruled by the military and the other half are ruled by the sons of kings and presidents."
He said the resemblance became clear when Bush's father was president and visited Arab countries.
"He wound up being impressed by the royal and military regimes and envied them for staying decades in their positions and embezzling the nation's money with no supervision," bin Laden said.
"He passed on tyranny and oppression to his son, and they called it the Patriot Act, under the pretext of fighting terror. Bush the father did well in placing his sons as governors and did not forget to pass on the expertise in fraud from the leaders of the (Mideast) region to Florida to use it in critical moments."
Obvious disclaimer: I in no way support terrorism, or even the use of force in conflicts unless there is no other alternative. I also consider Bin Laden a piece of shit, but that doesn't mean he hasn't got a point above.
-- james
There is a lot more to this that just this ... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Tin Foil (Score:2, Interesting)
Ohhhhhhh, they were doing it before _anyway_. That makes it ok then right? So see that is the purpose of dissent and citizen action. You oppose it when its illegal and you oppose it when its legal. Just because it IS legal, doesnt make it right. Which is becoming the ways of many many laws in the US.
Probably also a problem for UK firms... (Score:3, Interesting)
Since the UK has stricter rules than the US (the Data Protection Act), US firms handling data from the UK have to agree to follow them. (A "safe harbour agreement"). If the Patriot Act means they can't guarantee to follow the rules... then no UK company can legally send data to America.
This would extend to any data at all in which a person is uniquely identifiable...
Canada Vs. America: Rights of it's Citizens (Score:5, Interesting)
So I decided to look up this charter, and I found it. Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms [justice.gc.ca], which goes to unusual lengths to tell the world that French and English are it's official languages.
Then I decided to look for the US Bill of Rights, which is located not on a website with the words "law" and "justice" in the URL, but rather on "archives.gov" and what I'm reading is a Transcript of the Bill of Rights [archives.gov], as if it's chronicling an event and not informing me of my rights.
And I noticed the transcript of the Fifth Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger , and I contrasted it with Canada's charter: 9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned. 10. Everyone has the right on arrest or detention a) to be informed promptly of the reasons therefor; b) to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right; and c) to have the validity of the detention determined by way of habeas corpus and to be released if the detention is not lawful. Period, end of sentance, no "except."
Is America more interested in the history of it's laws than in the current reality? Are we, under the Patriot Act, in a constant state of "public danger" and therefore subject to being held, as I've heard people have been, without being told the crime they're being held for, with no court date, and no trial. What a strange, and convoluted time we live in that we are in a constant state of being the exception and not the rule.
Re:U.S. Fading as center of business world? (Score:5, Interesting)
I am currently involved in a startup in Dubai of all places. When orginally planning where to set up things, quite many places were considered, but in the end this place won.
The reasons for coming here were:
-Low regulations, but still holding contracts.
-Very low extra costs for labor above wages.
-Good availability to labor, with pragmatic immigration policy for getting emplyees from abroard.
-Working infrastructure.
-Low taxes
-Easy incorporation
-Low crime rate
In the end it basically came down to having a reasonable place with not too much bullshit and a place where we can concentrate on the thing we do... unlike Europe or US...
The naked truth about canada (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't want to leave canada? Just wait until a couple more generations get raised on that violent american TV you're so eager to import. Detroit is right across the river and, unlike the beer sellers at tiger stadium, the people who sell black market guns don't give a shit where you're from.
I do think making it illegal for someone to "import" american tv into their own home is absurd. Nice to see one government is figuring out prohibition never works. But no matter how stupid the law it's easy to see the motivation for it.
Better legalize that profitable black market drug trade before the culture shift moves in. The gunsellers are waiting...
Re:Go Bin Laden! (Score:4, Interesting)
When we realize we don't need shit from the US.
Re:Typo in article headline (Score:5, Interesting)
You didn't expect the American News Agencies to actually show the version that was screened with English subtitles now did you??? They show the plain Arabic version which then means that those who watch the showing have to rely on the "translation" provided over it by the news Agencies... which also means that to the average American, also appears to be just another Arabic nutter warbling along in an incomprehensible language...
Caveat emptor (Score:2, Interesting)
What a lot of people don't realize is the gradual demise of free speach in Canada.
Want to be fined for calling someone a queer? Maybe you deserve a bloody lip, but does 1000$ from your pocket sound better? An excellent summary of what's going on can be found on the Volokh Conspiracy (I stumbled upon it by chance): http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_10_07.sht
Moreover, the recent controversy surrounding the refusal of the federal communication commission (CRTC) to renew the licence of a Québec-based private radio station on the grounds that its content was inacceptable. This link, in French, provides a good résumé: http://www.quebecoislibre.org/04/040915-15.htm [quebecoislibre.org] (Other articles include a history of the Canadian government censorship of private broadcasters.) If the libertarian blog "Le Québécois Libre" isn't to your taste, you can surely find the story on the CBC's or Radio Canada's web site.
Canada is a great place. Québec even better.
Stay out of our elections--give us your obedience (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, who wins your election will have hegemony (well, dominating power) over us. It IS our business.
Re:Canada Vs. America: Rights of it's Citizens (Score:2, Interesting)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the charter of rights and freedoms was never signed by Quebec. Premiere Duplesis (IIRC) wanted alot more than was offered to them at the time and so Trudeau got the rest of the premieres together and hammered it out while Duplesis was sleeping.
Result. One really ticked off premiere and no Quebec in the charter of rights.
Re:Typo in article headline (Score:1, Interesting)
And when a terrorist shares the same view as a Canadian, you should really start to think about where the problem REALLY is... (you really think terrorists are attacking the USA for no good reasons? How about "the USA should stop invading/attacking/trying to rule other countries", is that a good enough reason for ya?)
Re:Oh Canada (Score:5, Interesting)
I should have known that the SSA was going to botch my application when I had the following conversation with the woman processing my forms at the office:
Woman: Where did you live most of your childhood, sir?
Me: In Manitoba.
Woman: Where is that, sir?
Me: I think it's just north of North Dakota.
Woman: I thought that Canada was up there.
Me: It is.
Woman: *obviously confused* Then where is Manitoba?
Me: It's in Canada.
Woman: What province is that in, sir?
When I did finally move back to Canada upon discovering (after waiting nine weeks) that my application had mysteriously vanished, I have to say that I was utterly relieved to be back home in the land of healthcare (I couldn't afford coverage in the US, and that made me very nervous) and sanity.
The truth of the matter is that we don't have nearly as many religious fundamentalists as you guys have: I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who believed one of our politicians was ordained by god to bring freedom to the rest of the world.
We don't exploit our national symbols like the maple leaf in order to press propaganda: in the US, I went to the Bank of America, where they had a sign saying, "Due to the 9/11 attacks, we must request that valid photo ID be presented with all transactions." This message was printed on a watermarked picture of the American flag. Why? I do not know, but perhaps for those with a lower level of education, somehow seeing this picture makes this annoying negative request (which I fail to see a connection between and the 9/11 attacks) somehow okay.
We don't throw around buzzwords like "independence", "liberty", and "freedom". Walking through the streets of DC and seeing security guards on nearly every intersection, and walking past police officers armed with semi-automatic weaponry certainly didn't make me feel particularly safe or free. Frankly, I felt observed and under suspicion, even though I had no reason to feel as such. A concert held in the park was an "Independence Concert". A show on the National Mall was a "Liberty Art Show". It was ridiculous. What does an art show have to do with liberty? I support patriotism, but tempered with common sense and sanity. These ideals of American life are losing meaning through their overuse and through the laws passed since 9/11.
I also suspect that our poverty levels are far lower here in Canada. Living in DC on the edge of the projects, where every poor person was black was incredibly depressing. Trying to see people raise a two children family on a $15k / year salary was heart-wrenching. There are poor families in Ottawa where I'm from, but those are largely the people who pull in a combined household income of $40k / year, take public transportation, and maybe have their two children sharing a bedroom.
Our politicians don't prance their families around on stage like some kind of ideal of American goodness. Frankly, the only reason I know that Jean Chretien is married is because his wife recently made the news in a rather entertaining way. I mean, seriously, why do Bush and Kerry's children speak at the national conventions? What do they have to do with politics? How is their opinion remotely valid in the context of the parties, any moreso than yours or mine?
Additionally, Canadians seem to be less divided on issues like politics and religion. I tire of hearing the atheist vs. christian debate about words like, "In God We Trust" written on your money, and "Under God" in your pledge of allegiance. While I'm atheist in the sense I reject the concept of god, up here in Canada, we have the words, "God keep our land glorious and free" in our national anthem, but i
Re:No he didn't forget the first sentence (Score:2, Interesting)
It's not just a US parent that's a risk, but even Canadian companies (such as the major banks) that own subsidiaries in the US - Royal Bank owns Liberty Insurance and several bank chains, TD owns an investment arm and some bank chains, BMO owns some bank chains. The US government can technically use the subsidiaries to weasle through to obtain information on the whole enterprise.
CA to USA as much a problem (Score:2, Interesting)
However; gettting CA tv in the US also requires some
subterfuge. Yes some people like CA tv!
Two examples; Royal Ca Air Farce, 22 minutes, the National, french language programing, Le Porte des Attoilles (star gate). (so I can't count).
Comment removed (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Oh Canada (Score:4, Interesting)
But, I guess thats just the way it is down in US. I am Canadian and goddamn, I am proud to be one.
--
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent."
-- Mohandas K. Gandhi
What colour of propaganda was it? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Canada Vs. America: Rights of it's Citizens (Score:4, Interesting)
A minor point worthy of note: the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms was only enshrined in the Constitution in 1982. Consequently, no legislation can now supercede it--it's part of the Constitution, not a conventional statute. In contrast, the earlier law (the Canadian Bill of Rights, 1960) was a regular statute, subject to amendment or repeal by Act of Parliament. It also only applied to the federal government, though many of the provinces had similar legislation in force.
The War Measure Act (enacted only in WWI, WWII, and--with questionable appropriateness--during the October Crisis) could not be used today, precisely because its provisions would now be unconstitutional.
It's probably also worth noting that the Charter of Rights is better written than comparable U.S. law (spread out over various Amendments and Supreme Court rulings) because it was written so recently. Loose equivalents to the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth Amendments, the Miranda rights, plus other goodies are all in the same Legal Rights section of the Canadian Charter. Canada got it "right" because they had the chance to watch everybody else screw up.
Re:Canada is not some bastion of freedom folks. (Score:3, Interesting)
What exactly are you talking about in terms of innovation?
I live in the West End here in Vancouver. Think of it as San Francisco, but Canadian. Once again, this repressiveness that you speak of is not due to any law, but the people that you surround yourself with. That my friends is Middle Canada (coining term), and every nation has one, irrespective of the laws of the country.Re:Oh Canada (Score:1, Interesting)
You must be from Ontario... or maybe Quebec. Trudeau was anything but a 'glorious man', especially as far as the insignificant 10% of the popluation living in western Canada is concerned.
Re:Oh Canada? Oh no, Canada! (Score:2, Interesting)
The only meaningful statistic in that is 13% visible minorities (I checked the Census, and it is true; I doubted it because my university is around 40% white), but the true utter idiocy is to equate diversity with equality. Yeah, the US has a large percentage minorities, but you, on the whole, hate each other. Yeah, there are bigots here, and even the occasional police racial profiling scandal, but they're not anywhere near as common as in the US, and they're certainly not the norm, as they seem to be there. There's far less hate, and not just superficial acceptence, like in America, but actual.
Yes, there are grouped ethnic neighborhoods in most of our cities, but everyone goes everywhere freely and happily; we intermingle and we fully embrace what diversity we have. And these neighborhoods are usually the result of a wave of immigration, and the inhabitants spread out among the general populace, again without a "there goes the neighborhood" sentiment. It's a 1- or 2-generation immigrant thing, not a racial thing. Also, no one gives interracial couples a second glance; hell, I wouldn't even know this was an issue if I hadn't seen people (trying badly to hide their) staring at an Asian guy with a white girl, while on vacation in LA.
Yeah, the Quebec Language Gestapo is a problem. I didn't say we were perfect, and it's only a problem in our "deep south" in the east centre. Frankly, I suck at French and don't much like having had to learn it, but it makes us unique. I've heard some pretty convincing arguments for the policy, but they've only temporarily swayed me. Again, we're not perfect, but I'd certainly rather have to learn French than Doublespeak. (burn!)
But the dumbest thing I think I've ever read (and, after due consideration, I really believe that) is your 2nd last paragraph. Paraphrased and annotated:
Canada's population is dying off because of your acceptence of gay people, who wouldn't be gay if you denied them basic human rights, and who don't constitute the same percentage of the population as in the US, destroying our birth rate and forcing us to accept filthy stinking immigrants (who we let in only if they'll be going straight on welfare and staying there forever, to their children's childeren's children, and couldn't possibly contribute to our society in any way), leading to *shudder* diversity (which, as I said in my 1st paragraph, is a bad thing) all of whom are gay. Furthermore, I have absolutely no clue that many of Canada's major cities' anti-smoking laws are actually a point of shame as being among the most fascist on the books, and smoking is at an all-time low and falling. Worst of all, everybody's always overdosing on The Mary-jewanna, raising healthcare costs (note: medical-grade Doritos, maybe?), which costs much more than imprisoning a tenth of our population for such a horribly harmful and victim-ridden crime.
Not much more to say, really. Canadians are much more socially liberal and accepting than Americans, on the whole, and if you think that's a bad thing, I'll very intolerantly and unliberally tell you to fuck off until your mind opens a pinprick (hey, I'm not that patient; I like to help people further open their minds (ie, learn), but it's beyond me to breach it in the first place). You knew you were wrong, which is why you posted AC. Again, I'm always a sucker for trolls.
Re:Why you should think twice before heading to Ca (Score:2, Interesting)
Except, what you say in your point one is not true.
Try reading the criminal code [justice.gc.ca] if you are concerned about it. The hate crimes [www.cbc.ca] laws are fairly specific. You can hate people all you want. It becomes a crime when you are inciting violence (in several forms, including illegal public disturbances) against an identifiable group of people. The wording is sometimes claimed to have some looseness, but the intent is fairly clear in actual case histories.
To put it into context, this section of the criminal code starts out addressing specifically the promotion of genocide. This is extreme. But all of the related sections follow this similar theme.
You conclude: "the full truth deserves to be out there so people can make informed decisions". I won't address your other points, because they are as misinformed as your first... over blown, out of context, based on uninformed opinions, etc.
No offence.
Re:Yeah... Listen to the gov't run media outlets! (Score:3, Interesting)
If you think the Canadian government dictates what the CBC can say, you've obviously never listened to the CBC. The same goes for the BBC.
Canadians are very much aware that a government owned news service could be tampered with, so the slightest move to do so is enough to sink a government. It's pure political poison. Nobody fucks with the CBC--not the government, not the courts, not CSIS, not the RCMP, not even the big corporations. They always lose. Ask Monsanto, who had Fox dancing like a trained bear, but who CBC had bent over counting shower tiles and squealing like a pig. This is the 900 lb gorilla that will eat your ass like pate on a cracker. The only thing that matters is good journalism. If the CBC gets the story wrong, it makes the government looks bad.
Want to commit political suicide in Canada? Try to censor the CBC. Wait one hour for the story to break nationwide. Canadians take this very personally. Have your letter of resignation handy. And make sure you have your resumes circulating in the private sector, because you will NEVER work in the public sector again.