What's Going On in Canada? 592
Jack Action writes "Up in Canada, the Privacy Commissioner of the province of British Columbia is recommending an immediate freeze on all outsourcing of public data to US-connected firms, Reuters and the CBC are reporting. After extensive consultations, the Privacy Commissioner has found that the USA Patriot Act threatens the private data of citizens even if they don't live in the USA (repeat: non-Americans are at risk). You can visit the Commissioners website, and download a summary or the full report." And reader digity writes "The long-standing Canadian battle on grey-market satellite dishes took a surprising turn in a Quebec courtroom yesterday. The grounds: freedom of expression. Yet another reason to come to the Great White North!"
Typo in article headline (Score:4, Insightful)
Shouldn't that be: "What's going on in the USA?"
U.S. Fading as center of business world? (Score:5, Insightful)
Good going to Canada (Score:5, Insightful)
Nice to see that Canada has the balls to stand up the the USA.
Why move privacy-sensitive data offsite anyway? (Score:5, Insightful)
I assume this would be fairly common practice for some uses of that data, but basically: if you want to do anything with data, why not do it on-site? If some off-shore company was hired to process millions of government-held records, wouldn't the safest way be to let that company only produce software for that purpose, and 'apply' that software locally?
Can anyone give some compelling reasons why you would move that data itself (knowing that it's privacy-sensitive)? BTW: With 'off-shore' I mean any third party relative to the data involved.
Re:stupid FUD article (Score:5, Insightful)
I just don't like a world where every sw developer who writes 2 lines of code needs to have bad dreams and his purse ready because some US big boy may come down on him at dawn. Where 2 friends can't share their stuff because some US or US-licking association could long for their money or threaten them otherwise. Where one can't copy an officially bought disk and give it to the little sister. Where my personal and communicational data can be freely snooped by US or US-licking agencies. Where for some words or a bad day and a sweating face one can be held for hours on a US/UK airport. Where one has to smile and finger the device (pun intended) like an ordinary criminal to enter a free country.
I won't go on, I'm picky this morning.
Not only data going to the US.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Like take for example the case of medical data going o subcontractors in india, that data is handled unde r their (nearly nonexistant) laws in that regard.
The fact is, for some sort of data to be protected in todays world, you have to make sure not only of making laws on the data protection, but also put in proper limits of where it can be handled.
The European union Personal data directives try to make rules on this, forbidding transfer of such data outside EU.
Too bad they caved in to US pressure on airtrafic part of it...
This is because Canada has the bomb! (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:Citizens of USA aren't americans ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Tin Foil (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously folks, what does the patriot act allow the US government to do that it wasn't able to do before, just illegally?
It allows it to do bad things legally. Any other questions?
Re:stupid FUD article (Score:2, Insightful)
Also you get to say FUD! Neat, huh? That makes you more free than an Afghan prisoner.
Re:Typo in article headline (Score:5, Insightful)
What's going on in the USA is that we're in the process of forfeiting our economic dominance by screwing up our legal system such that doing business with American companies is becoming more of a pain in the ass than it's worth. It's not like there are many industries where we enjoy a monopoly any more, and these kind of laws are just further incentive for other countries to take their business elsewhere.
Re:Why move privacy-sensitive data offsite anyway? (Score:5, Insightful)
Case and point.
Up here, Royal Bank of Canada's credit card business is outsourced to a U.S. firm. Because of this setup, this U.S. credit card firm has to give up RBC customer data to government officials if they use the Patriot Act to get at it.
http://canadaeast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID
So, let's say (hypothetically) that the scenario is flipped around. So instead of RBC outsourcing to the U.S., we're talking about Chase Manhattan, and they've outsourced their credit card business to RBC. I think it'd be pretty safe to say that credit card data would still be accessible to the U.S. government through the Patriot Act.
I think this would be the case for any company that incorporates in the states, no matter where their head office or data is.
Re:Probably... (Score:5, Insightful)
And for good reasons. I know I'll be taunted and modded down by the bible bashing extreme right wingers (and supporters) for saying this, but to quote Michael Moore, spreading democracy through the barrel of a gun rarely works.
But I digress. From a business perspective, patent and copyright systems in the US is broken and are not working as intended. The efforts to force these broken systems upon the rest of the world (to protect american companies and interests) is not going down to well. The US is being seen as the spoilt brat that when things doesn't go its way, it throws all the toys out of the pram.
Over time, if the attitude and behaviour of the US increases in hostility, the US will find itself more and more isolated and possible facing sanctions or trade embargoes. Before you mod me down as a troll, take a second to listen to me and try and comprehend what I am saying.
The US people have got to realise that the words 'compromise' and 'diplomacy' will get them a lot further in a medium/long term perspective than 'aggression' and 'shock and awe tactics' will. A level playing field, a little more understanding and less of the arrogance and favouritism currently in place will quickly change the perception of the US, and hence there will be little reason for other countries to put things in place like Canada has done.
With more and more privacy-invading legislation being installed, the US will rapidly become unusable to any business that has trade secrets to protect, or deals with private customer data.
It is the same with UK and companies that trade in EMEA. UK has, due to its policies of mimicking US, been deemed unsuitable to store encryption keys in. Other european countries have saner laws and subsequently been deemed as more suitable to be the location where said keys are stored.
The laws that are being passed in UK and US to prevent terrorism have little or nothing to do with preventing terrorism and everything to do with installing a police state as a precursor to some form of dictatorship. Sorry if that view offends, but that is what it looks like from here...
Re:Tin Foil (Score:5, Insightful)
Secondly, this law allows the US government to compel American companies operating in foreign countries to secretly hand over information on foreign employees, in violation of that country's laws. THAT'S why BC is raising the red flag on this one.
Re:Don't Like This? Hit 'em where it hurts. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wrong about the UK (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Typo in article headline (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Probably... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually most "US people" do realize that. The problem is that as far as "Intellectual Property" laws and various treaties the people are entirely oblivious to what is going on. And as for Iraq and the 'War on Terrorism', a great many people have been deceived [pipa.org] and believe we *have* had compromise and diplomacy and honest relations with the world. Many Americans are under the mistaken impression that most of the world (and our allies) generally support Bush and the US's invasion of Iraq and our terrorism efforts, or that world oppinion is at least neutral. Most Americans have no idea how badly Bush has alienated out allies and ruined our global relationships and support.
Some Americans do realize the problem and are attempting a local "regime change" in this election, other Americans have been deceived, but then of course there are also a small number of nutjobs. For example that report was posted on Free Reublic website (radical right-wing nutjobs) and naturally those loons somehow managed to rationalize global opposition as a GOOD thing. Yeahhhhh... those evil Norwegians only show 7% Bush support because they are jealous and want a "weak America". Sigh.
I'm more horrified at the huge number of people who have been decieved and may elect the next president than the small number of wackos.
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Re:Typo in article headline (Score:3, Insightful)
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTIC
And the video available for download on Al Jazeera's website was only about 5 minutes. I downloaded it, but didn't watch it because it had no subtitles. I had heard on the news that they provided the tape to Al Jazeera with english subtitles, but I didn't see them in the video.
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/m
http://ww
Re:Canada Vs. America: Rights of it's Citizens (Score:5, Insightful)
When Trudeau helped bring in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms more than a decade later, near the end of his tenure, he may have been trying to undo some of the damage he caused -- certainly, he seems to have learned from his mistake.
There is never a good reason to suspend basic human rights. Period. In the U.S., Democrats (Japanese internment) and Republicans (Guantanamo Bay) have both been more than happy to flush Habeas Corpus down the toilet when the voters let them get away with it, so keep your eyes open, guys.
USA PATRIOT considered harmful (Score:5, Insightful)
Obviously something needs to change. All this terror-paranoia is not normal. We, the Europeans, also suffered attacks in Madrid but we didn't pass laws like that. We didn't get mad. We do fight terror, but we do not destroy our civilisation of democracy and freedom just to catch some crazy terrorists.
I hope the USA legislators will understand that they can fight their enemies without undermining the privacy and freedom of Americans (and the world!). I believe that laws like PATRIOT aren't needed.
BTW I wrote a story with some more information here [wikinerds.org]. As you can read, the probe started in May and produced a report consisted of more than 100 pages. The report was written by OIPC, a Canadian authority on privacy issues in British Columbia.
Re:Probably... (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspected as much that this was the case. Some people on here keep saying that Fox News is the only source of news that is slanted to the right and that most (all?) the others are slanted towards "commies" and "pinkies" (whatever that is supposed to mean). From what I can tell, watching things like CNN, it is slanted towards the right. Okay, the definition of "right" might be different between Europe and US, but here the general view is that your Democrats are right wing, and your Republicans are even further right.
It is disconcerting how effectively this disinformation has been used in the US, to create the perception that you have the support of the rest of the world while the truth is somewhat different. I can just hope that you get fair elections, no tampering with the result, and that the people elect someone that is less damaging to your nation.
Could the USA survive another 4 years of obscene budget deficits under Bush?
For example that report was posted on Free Reublic website (radical right-wing nutjobs) and naturally those loons somehow managed to rationalize global opposition as a GOOD thing. Yeahhhhh... those evil Norwegians only show 7% Bush support because they are jealous and want a "weak America".
I hear what you are saying and I understand what that website was trying to achieve. I do not think that the rest of the world wants a weak USA, rather we want a fair and just USA that is not the schoolground bully boy.
I hope that the people of USA manages to shake themselves awake and turn the ship around before it is to late. Good luck friends.
Re:Oh Canada (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh god, this can't-see-past-my-own-borders-clearly disease is spreading. There are other places on the planet worth considering going besides the US and Canada?
Still - at least you acknowledge there are two countries worthy of your thoughts - that's a whole 100% more than some.
(Note to author of post above, don't mean to make you feel bad, that probably isn't even what you meant, but, the gist of your post is "I never want to leave my country coz the US isn't for me" and didn't consider that there are thousands of other places on earth with a richness and diversity beyond imagination)
Re:Go Bin Laden! (Score:2, Insightful)
Have fun living in the land of the free!
Grey market satellite dishes (Score:3, Insightful)
The reason is that the USA is much richer, much mor powerful and has much more money. It is a simple fact that even in the USA there are only a few major players in the radio-land who everyone recognizes almost immediately (Rush Limbaugh, anyone?) So what is going to happen to our local news stations is that they will quickly become non-profitable.
Yes, what I am saying is that without regulations in a free market Canadian programming will not survive against the neighbour in the South.
I don't watch TV (don't even have one) but it is nice to know that if I turn to Pulse 24 it covers Canadian news.
I do however listen to radio every morning and in the evening while driving to and from work. I LIKE listenning to the AM radio, because it is allmost all talk-shows that carry Canadian point of view.
I do not want to have to listen to the major USA radio stations in the morning, who have nothing to do with the place where I live.
Yes, sure, in Toronto CFRB 1010 [cfrb.com] will still survive and the MOJO radio (640) [mojoradio.com] will probably still continue. But what about the rest of the stations. The smaller places, even Ottawa? Will the local news even exist there anymore? I doubt it.
So, while it is seen as great by many, that canadians could be allowed by the canadian judges to buy grey-market equipment to listen to american programming, I see it as a huge mistake, that will bring on the demise of our local programming, which implies the demise of our culture. That is simply because there will be no culture if there will be no point of our different point of view.
Well, personally, I may have nothing against becoming the next state of the USA, I WANT a 2-tier health system. But the rest of you, Canadians, don't be surprised when in a decade from now, if this is allowed, there will be only 1-tier - American Style health system. And you will be listenning to the King George Bush the Third on your radio stations, and you will be wondering about what happened to those old local stations and news and what happened to this country.
Re:Canada Vs. America: Rights of it's Citizens (Score:4, Insightful)
There are some expections, but that is something that differentiates the two countries as well. The US Constitution grants its rights only to US Citizens, Canada is a lot more open there, as long as you are a human being, you're pretty much covered.
Re:DTV (Score:2, Insightful)
The CBC [www.cbc.ca]..... Dangerous news, could undermine the President.
Re:Go Bin Laden! (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, does that sound as silly to you as it does to me? If not, maybe you need to think about what you're saying a bit more, since encouraging mass murder is seriously messed up.
From reading the grandparent post, the point is being made about the Bush family and not the USA. While a president leads the country and should represent the country, it does not mean the he does not have an agenda that is independent of the wishes of the majority of the citizens.
You should realise just because someone is generally in the wrong, that they can still have good points. Also just because someone is generally right it does not mean they can't make bad points. In life you need to be able to learn as much as possible of the views of all sides, to make the best judgement possible - one source of information is not the same thing.
"understand and respect your enemy and you will be in a better position to deal with them".
Re:Typo in article headline (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Typo in article headline (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Typo in article headline (Score:1, Insightful)
Gee, it's a shame to lose that kind of speech.
Re:Probably... (Score:5, Insightful)
Our society, at a deep, emotional level, is oriented towards competition, not cooperation. There is a winner and then there are the losers. Second place doesn't mean you were really good; it means you failed to win. Cooperation is seen only as a method for gaining a competitive edge against others. Once the competitor is vanquished, the need for cooperation is done.
I wish to stress that not all Americans believe this. Some of us do believe that we and everyone else would be better off if compromise and diplomacy were our modus operandi. But our culture of competition and our respect and admiration for strong, take-charge individuals (e.g. John Wayne) give lie to the statement that "most" Americans believe we'll get farther with compromise and diplomacy.
Re:solution to the canadian problem (Score:2, Insightful)
Sure, the initial invasion might work, but good luck winning the peace!... or is it not polite to mention that at the moment?
Re:Typo in article headline (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would they do this when they've no control over which parts of the tape will be shown, whether the original soundtrack or a dubbed translation will be used etc? Just off the top of my head I can think of several more efficient and faster methods - a small advert in a local paper or particular comments in a weblog for example.
Re:Go Bin Laden! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Tin Foil (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Other freedoms (Score:1, Insightful)
so ya
on a side note
just my thoughts.
Re:Typo in article headline (Score:5, Insightful)
I used to think 'how can the current Administration with all its resources be manipulated so easily by a lowly scumbag who is hiding in caves?' -- but now am thinking that their goals may not be so far apart after all; the NeoCons got what they wanted in Congress--and so did Al Qaeda.
Re:oh funny story :( (Score:4, Insightful)
A few years ago the feds wanted to consolidate a bunch of our data into one data centre: our income tax, medical records, national police data, etcetera, all into one facility with one common database and interface.
The privacy commisioner ixnayed that, saying it would be far too easy for agencies to abuse the system, obtaining access to information that would normally not be available to them.
If we outsource our data, we're liable to end up in much the same situation: the RCMP could, f'rinstance, get easy access to medical records and income tax reports, when looking up a driving violation. Bad, bad idea.
All Canadians should be somewhat concerned about where this is heading. We've traditionally had excellent privacy rights, and excellent oversight of those rights. But with a few easy moves, all that could change.
Re:Oh Canada (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Typo in article headline (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, if by "free speech" you mean "allow terrorists to broadcast propoganda with possible underlying go codes for their cells".
Because cells of Arab terrorists have to rely on the English translations, rather than just listening to the full version in Arabic.
Right.
And as far as the "propaganda" aspect goes, which is the more dangerous propaganda technique: To broadcast a hate-filled speech given by a lone radical who's been in hiding for years, or to silently edit the opposition's words, removing anything too uncomfortable and modifying the rest to make it seem extremist and confused?
Gee, it's a shame to lose that kind of speech.
Yes, it is.
And it's an even bigger shame to see people buying the "necessity" of silencing such important speech.
Re:but in Can-a-duh you can practice Sharia (Score:1, Insightful)
Anyway, the Muslims aren't going to own Canada. It will be the Chinese. You have no idea what's going on up here in that regard. When the Chinese emigrate, they bring China with them; there is no interest in integration. Vancouver is a divided city. At least the Mexicans share a European background with you.
The Chinese call us whites the "dog people". Blacks are referred to as "black shit". Those are common, everyday terms. That should tell you something about our tragically misguided immigration policy.
Honestly, how did it come to this?
Re:Typo in article headline (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably not too hard, since it appears that he and the NeoCons have rather similar ways of looking at the world.
and Americans are slowly starting to realize that it stopped being the Land of the Free a while ago (and never was for some).
Odds on most of the US population hasn't even started to realise this.
I used to think 'how can the current Administration with all its resources be manipulated so easily by a lowly scumbag who is hiding in caves?' -- but now am thinking that their goals may not be so far apart after all; the NeoCons got what they wanted in Congress--and so did Al Qaeda.
Politics makes for strange bedfellows. It's not even unknown for political groups who have apparently mutually exclusive viewpoints to activly co-operate.
There's also the links the NeoCons have with right wing Christianity. Which is unlikely to be that far away from the kind of Islam the likes of Bin Laden believe.
Sounds like someonw with no friends. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Typo in article headline (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Yeah... Listen to the gov't run media outlets! (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually they are government funded, but not government run. There is a big difference.
News agencies have to be funded by something and having them funded by the advertising revenue of corporations ( and therefore policy set by corporations that threaten to remove their funding if they don't like something) is much more dangerous an my opinion than being government funded.
No No No No!!!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
The privacy commissioner was referring to Canadian citizens living in BC. The provincial government wants to out-source all medical services plan data to a subsidiary of an american defence contractor. Because we have mandatory health coverage, every resident of BC has an MSP record. That's 4 million Canadian Citizens whose medical records could be demanded by a foreign intelligence service without a warrant issued by a Canadian judge.
According to this story [vancouver.cbc.ca] the provincial government is going to outsource anyways.
This is so important to understand, I'm going to re-post it above the discussion about bin Laden's tape.
This story (and this summary) really should be front-page material