Blunkett Backs Down on UK ID Cards 374
Anonymous Brave Guy writes "Some people don't like the civil rights concerns. Some think they'll cost too much. Some think they'll lead to more identity theft than identity verification. Some think governments can't manage big database projects and there are bound to be mistakes and over-runs. Any way you look at it, compulsory ID cards have a lot of potential drawbacks, so is the UK's Home Secretary, David Blunkett, starting to back down from the idea? Combining ID cards with passports and driving licenses was the key way to force them on an often unwilling UK population, and seems to have gone for good, but apparently legislation to bring in some form of ID card is still likely in the next Queen's Speech. Is it the beginning of the end of a bad idea, or just more spin to dodge the remaining concerns?"
Re:Who am I? (Score:2, Informative)
1. We have a national-ID card. This contains the State Register Number, name and address and marital state (reissued every few years - soon an e-ID !).
2. Then there's the driver's license, has your name but not address (never reissued, except when it changes).
3. But we also have a SIS card (Social Identity System), that contains information on deseases you have and medicins you normally take (this aids if you're at the pharmacy, and you want prescription drugs without prescription - if you normally take them). Already electronic, does not get reissued (data changes). This card helps when you get to a hospital (like after an accident) and the doctors check your card, see your health-status, and can treat you properly.
So, Big Brother lives in Belgium, I assume?
Misleading title of article. (Score:3, Informative)
And it will still cost £35 and contain I don't know how much biometric data.
No he's not! (Score:4, Informative)
He's backing down on the idea of a combined card to serve as a drivers licence, ID card, etc. Instead, we will have to carry separate cards for each of these functions.
And the clever thing is the way that he is forcing them on us. When you renew your passport you will be forced to get an ID card as well. And you will have to pay GBP35 for the privilege! If you don't want an ID card, the only way to avoid it is to not get a passport - this is a problem for many of us who have to travel on business.
Re:This doesn't seem like a new conclusion (Score:2, Informative)
It is neither of those things. Must we have the same silly conversation every time the BBC is mentioned on Slashdot? If you can't grasp the concept of a Crown Corporation and the mandate which enables the BBC and the TV Licencing Authority then please just be quiet in future.
Re:Differs from a drvier's license, how? (Score:5, Informative)
You don't mind having to identify yourself on demand?!
Then why did you post as an Anonymous Coward?
This headline is all wrong! (Score:5, Informative)
David Blunkett is not backing down on ID cards.
The headline is misleading. The change that the BBC is referring to is that the the government will not make the ID card the same item as the passport and the driving license like the government was originally planning.
What has not changed is that anyone applying for a passport will still have to submit to biometric data collection, pay an extra fee for a new card, and be issued an ID card. The Register [theregister.co.uk] is more informative on the subject than the BBC in this case.
David Blunkett is still ignoring criticism of the scheme from the Home Office Affairs Committee, the public consultation, and thousands of people writing in to object. Not only that, but he knows that most of the members of parliment object as well so he has lied constantly about what the card will be and do in order to get parliment to accept it. It started out as an imigrants entitlement card, then an NHS card, then a voluntary ID card, and now it's to be compulsory to be issued a card but not to carry it. Expect that to change soon after everyone has one.
For those of you who don't like ID cards... (Score:3, Informative)
- no2id [no2id.net]
- Stand [stand.org.uk]
- Liberty [liberty-hu...hts.org.uk]
Also, I should point out the the Liberal Democrat [libdems.org.uk] party is the only major UK political party that's against ID cards.Useful in some cases (Score:3, Informative)
Mostly in Germany and Switzerland, nothing happens without your ID but it makes life easy getting an apartment, opening bank accounts, getting mobile phone contracts and so on. In the UK, in the absence of an ID card, opening a bank account was a complete pain.
I am British, with a passport and NI number. But these are no good for opening a bank account in the UK (unless you already have a UK bank account...). The rules are that you have to show a recent utility bill (or equivalent) with your name and current address plus other forms of identification. Of course, to get such a utility bill, I had to get an apartment but a lot of landlords want your bank account so that they can be assured of regular and timely payment. A vicious circle which proved frustrating to break.
The banks do offer to write to your foreign bank but the British, being such insular little islanders expect everything to be conducted in English, even if you have only just arrived from a small island off Japan. They will not attempt to communicate even in another major European language. In contrast, European banks often conduct their operations in several major languages.
To survive, I had to use the services of a friend's bank account (gotta be someone you can trust implicitly) until after several months, I was able to get an apartment and then, after having a utility bill, open my own account.
I've spoken to other foreigners (Swedish, Spanish, Bulgarian etc.) who all had to go through the same farcical process. All come from places where ID cards are the norm and wonder why the UK has to make life so difficult.
I note that 'Blind Man' Blunkett (the current and, one fervently hopes only temporary, Home Secretary) is possibly rejecting the notion of an ID card, not because it might make things easier for ordinary citizens but because there might be workarounds for crooks and terrorists. This is typical of the horrendously authoritarian Blunkett, nothing he does is for Joe Soap but only to simplify (to make more 'efficient') police powers and processes. See, for example the US-UK Extradition Treaty 2003 [statewatch.org]
Re:i was thinking about them today... (Score:5, Informative)
The threat does not necessarily come from the current government. It may be the next government, or the one after that that targets you.
In Britain we have a British National Party which wants to stop a lot of the foreigners getting in. It is not a very tasteful policy, but it is a legal expression of a political view point. People are now loosing their jobs as police officers and school teachers if they are associated with the BNP. This is just one step away from having your career prospects damaged if you are NOT a member of the ruling New Labour Party.
You see, governments are led by people who love to exercise power. In Britain, there is political pressure from these political leaders to exercise power over what we can say and think. There is talk of laws against 'hate speech'. Of course, hate-speech is defined by current moral fashions.
A national identity database can hold details of who is a potential terrorist, who speaks out against the government... All this can be brought up on someone's screen without my knowledge. This is what is so different from drivers' licenses, etc. You don't know who has access to that information about you, or how it is used.
So, Tigress from Sweden, you may have a benevolent government in Sweden now, but beware how much power over your life and privacy you cede to it!
Re:Who am I? (Score:3, Informative)
Erm... yes there will. That's pretty much the whole point of an ID card, according to David Blunkett.
Re:It's not just the govenment. (Score:3, Informative)
Well, it is just the government who'll have access to the database. But you have to understand what the government is in the context of "who requires access to this system?"
It's not Tony Blair.
It's not the Labour Party.
It's every single government agency. That's driving licenses, social security, healthcare, local councils, law enforcement and education just off the top of my head.
Does the person who thinks they have nothing to hide expect me to believe that there's not a single corruptible person employed by any of those organisations?
Re:But I already carry my eyes and fingerprints (Score:3, Informative)
The technology is not capable of matching your biometric data (eg your retina scan) with a unique individual on the database - your retina would match you + several other people, so the system wouldn't know whether the person standing there was John Smith or Osama Bin Laden, who (from the system's point of view) have identical retinas.
A real "nightmare scenario" might be different (Score:5, Informative)
I submitted the article. One of the reasons I feel strongly about this issue myself is that I was once left hundreds of pounds short in my pay cheque after someone in a government tax office mistyped a National Insurance number (similar to a SSN, for those who have them instead) and entered mine instead. I've mentioned this here before, but here are a few scary details in summary.
The problem with this sort of database isn't just malicious use for things like identity theft or government interference. Good old user error is just as big a danger, and probably a lot more likely.
Re:i was thinking about them today... (Score:2, Informative)
(In case you are wondering how I could vote, for local elections all EU citizens can vote in the area where they are resident. It's just national elections that are different.)
Re:i was thinking about them today... (Score:3, Informative)
And don't just worry about the authorities - how about the people manning the system? Only this week an employee of the DVLA was found guilty of passing on addresses [bbc.co.uk] of people to animal rights activitists/terrorists.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Re:A real "nightmare scenario" might be different (Score:3, Informative)
If someone incorrectly marks you as dead, one visit to a government office with your biometric ID card in hand will be quite enough to make clear their error. And once that error has been corrected once, there is no fear that there is some government computer somewhere that has the old wrong data.
*(Not to be confused with backups or error correcting redundancy like RAID).
Re:ID cards have *NOT* been scrapped! (Score:3, Informative)
LibDems and the nationalist parties wholly against (there has even been talk of the Scottish Parliament refusing to play ball with the scheme).
The Conservatives haven't made up their minds, indeed the Shadow Home Secretary (and I thought Blunkett wouldn't cast a shadow) has been pro-ID and against them in the same speech.
UKIP - probably for them as they'll then be able to identify foreigners.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Re:i was thinking about them today... (Score:2, Informative)
That's just plain wrong. The very first Autobahn (as they are called in germany) was the AVUS in Berlin, which had been finished in 1921. The second one was built in Italy and was finished in 1923. Plans to build several more motorways in germany had been considered by the german government in the weimar republic but had to be postponed because the project couldn't be funded due to the high reparations payments to france and the economic downturn at the end of the 1920's.
What you most probably mean is the "Reichsautbahnen", which were built during the third reich. BUt all they did was to take the old plans from the weimar republic and make them real. The major difference between these and the original plans was that the nazis extended them to include more motorways than originally planned (By the start of the war 3.300 Kilometers had been completed. Preparations began in 1933 so it tokk them five years to build all that) and also to impose some kind of standard on the construction of them. But those motorways would to some extend have been built even if there had not been a nazi germany.
Jeff
It's alwa
Re:i was thinking about them today... (Score:2, Informative)
Anyway - The BNP campaign came round to our house for the local elections and started trying to get my vote. I stood, arms folded and listened to this shaven headed, pierced chap waffling about my rights as the indigenous(sp?) population. He wafled so long that he was still there when the landlord turned up(Asian) for the(late) rent. The BNP chap spat at him and kicked his car as he stormed off. I have met 5-7 BNP members, and they were all incredibly racist, as were the 20 or so BNP voters I knew.
In short, I have seen both halves of this racism, and The BNP is a joke - any rational person knows what they are about.
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Can someone explain why there is a push for ID cards of this sort?
Blunkett wants a solution for his immigration problem and the police are in favour.
Currently, illegal immigrants are impossible to track whilst their claim takes months to be processed.
Naturally, the police are a little bit more focussed on stopping criminals than protecting civil liberties.
On the other hand, what's so bad about having a card like this?
I'm much more concerned about the impending database state. So much data is collected on us already and the only thing stopping it and all future data (eg DNA & CCTV tracking) being indexed by anyone with a grudge or genocidal tendencies is our flimsy democracy and the lack of a unique identity number.