FDA Approves Implantable RFID for Patients

anzha writes "It seems that the FDA has approved an RFID tag for use in patients. The idea being that the rice grain sized chip would be implanted and scanned for patient history and updates. It seems that a similar chip was used by the Mexican government for employees that work with sensitive documents. IDK about you, but this seems a to me little...creepy."

Defibrilator

[cartzworth]

My grandfathers defib has information stored on it, although I'm not sure its it's RFID.

Cashless society.. coming right up.

[Anonymous Coward]

Rev 13:16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or[6] the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

Repent, the end is near.

Implant?

[Databass]

Can't I just keep it in my wallet or embedded in my shoes or on my car keys or something?

Ebeh...

[TidyKiller]

I don't care about the advantages, that's some seriously creepy stuff. I'm never eager to jump and say "LOOK! THAT THING/PERSON IS RUNNING AWAY WITH OUR RIGHTS!", but RFIDs still scare me..

Patents and security?

[darnok]

...So I go to hospital, and one of these RFID tags is implanted within me.

Next time I visit doctor/hospital, what restrictions are there on info from "my" tag being read? Two possible options I can see:
- everyone can read my info, and now I have to worry about my health info being scanned by everyone with any remote interest in it. Get on a plane - *SCAN*; "Sorry sir, we believe your heart may give out on this flight and we don't want any lawsuits". Go to a job interview - *SCAN*; "Sorry but we won't employ someone with your health problems"
- nobody can read my info except for readers authorised by the single company controlling the implants. Hmm, now I wonder how they could conceivably abuse that information...

Thanks, but no thanks - I'll take my chances with anonymity. The possibilities of abuse of this technology are just too high

hmmmm

[Anubis350]

while an interesting idea in itself, I hope it doesnt get expanded to something more.... complete. I.e. I hope that it doesnt evolve into "well, we already have chips in people, lets expand it to be a national ID".
as is however, this makes sense. keeping your medical history on a chip could definately help in emergencys and such involving people with various conditions. I wonder if things like defrib and such would affect the chip though...

Re:It should seem creepy

[theparanoidcynic]

Then use that to our advantage. At least here in the US fundies have an extraordinary, and indeed terrifying amount of power at the moment. Get them to believe that this is "the mark of the devil" (or whatever the shit they call it) and I guarantee it'll be dead.

Useful for payments too

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

How about an RFID that can be used as a credit card?

It would be so much more convenient than having to carry a credit card, worry about dropping it, or not having it (e.g. you are ordering drinks poolside). One wouldn't need cash either.

Implantation in the hand would be more convenient, one could just wave it over a scanner at a supermarket.

More details available here [religion-cults.com].

What's the point?

[Dan East]

There is no central healthcare database. Having worked for the largest chain of hospitals in the world (was Columbia, now called HCA), I know firsthand that medical data is not shared between an entire chain of hospitals, let alone hospitals outside of their influence.

So what's the point in having an ID number imbedded in the patient via RFID, or having it tattooed on their forehead, etc, if it does not mean anything outside of a specific hospital or market? How is this better than a patient carrying a Social Security card? The only thing that comes to mind is to help track drug seekers that go from ER to ER. However these aren't exactly the type of people that would volunteer to be tagged like a wild animal.

Dan East

Well, you're going into a hospital

[mveloso]

I'd think that you'd want as much medical information in the hands of your doctors as possible.

For example, if you're allergic to something like penicillin they could read that from your implant instead of attempting to somehow elicit it out of your unconcious body.

Likewise, if you have AIDS but didn't tell anyone the hospital would probably treat you differently, given that you might have a whole slew of daily meds in your system that might interact with whatever they were planning to do with you.

Of course, the downside is that it might tell them that you've been to the ER fifteen times complaining about the same thing, but all that would be in your paper file anyway.

Could law enforcement abuse it? Probably. But those guys don't have a lot of free time, and what free time they have won't be used scannning random individuals.

Re:More hysteria

[dgatwood]

I think you're making too much of it in this particular situation. This is just like a hospital bracelet, only probably less uncomfortable, and less likely to get lost/damaged/chewed off by someone with dementia. I wouldn't expect anything like this for somebody who was just in for the day. This is the kind of thing that would mainly be needed for "lifers", or at least for people who need long-term rehabilitation. Just think of it as a more effective "Medic Alert".

Whatever is Created

[swat_r2]

Whatever is created can also be hacked. That's both scary and liberating at the same time. I'm used to incompetence on a daily basis from every person I deal with, from the grocer, to my friendly neighborhood hospital. We're human, and I make mistakes as much as the nex guy. Technology isn't going to solve these problems, but I can see the mistakes being more severe. We're on our way to being slaves to data.. I wonder how close we are to the 20,000 year cycle, and if our number close to being up. Take that as you will ;)

This is no joke

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a Christian and even I thought (foolishly) for many years this was somehow avoidable. It seems it's not and the prophecies do appear to be coming true. Those that reject the mark will suffer unimaginably at the hands of 'the beast'. DO NOT take the mark in any way, shape, form or guise. Other things to watch for, 1 leader who will control the world and resumption of blood sacrifice on the temple mount in Israel - possibly not in that order.

The coming apocalypse...

[INetEngineer]

Anyone remember that old apocalpyse movie from the 60's (I think...) that attempted to document the Bible's book of Revelations? The movie introduced the infamous "bar code" that was on everyone's forehead and hand that had the double line at the beginning, middle, and end signifying "666". People always talked about the bar code becoming an electronic chip of some sort. RFID? "Return of the Fallen Imp Devil"? I'm a Christian who always questions things, but this stuff kinda makes you think... :)

Re:RTFA!!!

[MourningBlade]

The largest impiedment to a true Database Society that we have is the lack of a way to get a unique fingerprint on each person in a crowd without their active consent in each instance. Pictures aren't good enough, and cross-database compatibility is very difficult as well.

I'm cool with the hospital using this, but this "paper bracelet with your name on it [that you] won't lose" is a unique identifier that is mass scanable.

Yes, your medical records at the hospital will be secure. But that chip in you is a unique (or near-unique) identifier that a lot can get attached to.

And that's cause for concern. Not fear, but concern.

Besides, I think there are better (and perhaps cheaper) solutions for the identity problem in a hospital. Want a unique ID number? Temporary tattoo of a barcode. Maybe there are other ideas out there.

Re:Your Rights Online?

[NuclearDog]

"Some sort of national medical database would alleviate this problem. I think the good here far outweighs the potential negatives of a few devious individuals who can now see that I had an ulcer in '97..."

They can also see that you went to see the doctor in '98 because you couldn't get it up, and to a shrink in '99 because you had the urge to hump random girls at Wal-Mart, and...

Sure, some stuff you might want to share, but if you knew that any random person could see exactly everything you've been to any sort of health care person to before for, wouldn't you think twice about going to the doctor for something embarrassing?

ND

Two thousand year old prior art

[vegetablespork]

And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead; And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

- Revelation 13:16-17

Re:Patents and security?

[Anonymous Coward]

MRI machines can be real nasty - any chance of the chip being magnetically accelerated, ripping through soft tissue, arteries, or being propelled into a nurses eye?
Yeah, sorry, I forgot it was in me, says dead patient.

Airport security machines now fire/expose patients to ionising radiation, so these chippy things will get cooked, or worse, have the chip generate a different number - think parity error.

For the above posters information, a barcoded wristband already does the above, cheaper, and has no privacy implications when it is cut off on discharge. Its main advantage is that doctors and nurses can READ it, without fumbling for a doggie scanner, or misreading an LCD name, because one segment was faulty, T's becoming 'I's, etc.

Mobile phones - what they do in a hospital - no thanks, I'll take the printed armband every time.

Re:Patents and security?

[zvar]

I have a concern if it holds my medical history

Thing is, RFID does not contain any information, it simply stores a number. One will scan the tag, get back ID 3214119413184351346843164684135146 and the software in the reader, or on the computer, or whatever will do a look up on a database and return the information. Of course like anysoftware, the privacy comes into play on who has access to that specific reader, as only that specific reader has access to the database.

Sure any reader can scan the RFID, but the best that will be returned is 3214119413184351346843164684135146.

Re:What's the point?

[WolfPup]

I think it's a step in preventing mixups at the hospital and allowing easy access of patient information at the hospital during their stay.

Think of it this way. A PDA with access to the patient database files. Instead of paper charts, the Doctor scans the RFID in the patient and the medical charts appear on the PDA device. No mixup of charts between patients. The RFID could also prevent that bracelet from getting lost, etc. as well. There could be scan points in OR's etc that could "reject" a patient that was not set up for the procedure, instantly warning hospital staff there was a mixup of patient.

This is really a piece of system that could improve reliability and identity problems in the hospital. It is not necessarily a solution in and of itself, but rather a piece of a total system to improve the medical system.

Hmmmm.

[Excen]

Well, I hate to be the rapture-monger here, but it should be noted that Palestinians are getting killed every day by the Israeli army (not that I don't support them securing their home), and Bush seems to be trying to become the leader that takes over the world.

I also think that the rapture is a load of bullhonkey, but if it were to happen, can I have your computer?

Re:What The Hell?

[Reziac]

There are other non-invasive possibilities for locating the RFID chip, too, such as a skin patch, or for those with pierced ears, a small earring. The point being that it's removeable, and under the control of the patient.

While it's all well and good to be sure your meds don't get switched with someone else's, this ever-increasing lack of control over our own lives is most definitely not. And an ID implant (however benign) that you can't remove, is not under your control.

Re:SSN, Drivers License, CC #, and Now a chip

[sw155kn1f3]

> When SSNs first came out, everybody warned about the possibility of abuse for its use as a national number similar to how the nazi's and USSR did

I don't know about nazis, but USSR didn't have any ID number. They have a passport with issued # on it. (quite standard thing for any ID I believe). It wasn't used for anything important anyway.
In modern Russia they still have these passport #'s... Not used for anything important too. There was an attempt to give every citizen Tax #, but it's not mandatory. I didn't ever encountered a situation where you need one. So stop making things up please.

Re:OMG

[surprise_audit]

As someone else pointed out, the FDA approves or not based on if the food, drug or device is safe to use. I.e. it won't poison you, give you cancer, or make you glow in the dark. The tag just contains a very big number. The potential for Orwellian scenarios lies in the databases that the number is linked to. That's what the ACLU needs to worry about. There needs to be some kind of legislation regulating the use of the number as an identifying mark.

Re:Cashless society.. coming right up.

[mrbcs]

The devil will come "as an angle of light" He will look like a "Christian" to the world but God's elect won't be decieved.

Since we know a tree by it's fruit, it would be a pretty good stretch calling dubya a Christian.

"That said, that bit in Revelations isn't that difficult."

This is Prophesy, not history. Christians will be killed, by the thousands, in "free" America because they know who the beast is and what he's up to. I've been watching this unfold for over 20 years. If the gov't came right out and said everyone needs this rfid chip, people would freak. They are floating trial balloons to get us used to the idea. Then when they come out with all these "befefits" Christians will look like "right wing nut jobs" to the rest of the world. You get what you've seen in the comments of this post... it's only a tag, nothin to be afraid of yada yada.

Many things have to be in place for this prophesy to be fufilled. The temple must be built in Jerusalem again and the blood sacrifices must be started again. Since this is where the beast will claim to be God. The stock market and all "money" could be destroyed in a day a la 1929. It really is a house of cards waiting for the right time. What would happen if the arabs decided that they wanted their cash in Gold from the U.S.?