FDA Approves Implantable RFID for Patients

anzha writes "It seems that the FDA has approved an RFID tag for use in patients. The idea being that the rice grain sized chip would be implanted and scanned for patient history and updates. It seems that a similar chip was used by the Mexican government for employees that work with sensitive documents. IDK about you, but this seems a to me little...creepy."

Good idea for borders

[erick99]

This would be a great idea for our beleagured borders where there are not enough police. The communications stuff is great as well. But, mostly, I like the idea of the level of security you can get with such a system. I do hope that safeguards are put in place to avoid abuse.

Re:Good idea for borders

[Izago909]

This would be a great idea for our beleagured borders where there are not enough police.

Are you suggesting that all non-Americans be tagged and our thousands of miles of coast line be dotted every few hundred feet with RFID scanners?

I do hope that safeguards are put in place to avoid abuse.

Yes, because if there is one thing the government is good at, it would be respecting peoples privacy and safeguarding personal information.

Re:Your Rights Online?

[nz_mincemeat]

The fundamental potential for abuse is that since some institution now has a unique ID linked to you, somebody with access to the back-end databases will be able to know as much as the databases recorded.

Since the article doesn't say anything about expiry of said RFID tag, all hospitals and other institutions that want to use this technology will need to share your unique ID number amongst everybody, creating a meta-network of information all tracable to YOU.

Re:More hysteria

[ethan_clark]

Problem is that part of the ideals that this country was founded on included the idea that the government was required to leave you alone unless they suspected you of doing something illegal. Giving the government, or any private organization the ability to monitor you (whether at a hospital or not -- for any reason, any place) with a technology that has an immense potential for misuse is quite a scary idea.

That's why the "If you've nothing to hide, you don't need to worry" line doesn't fly with me -- maybe if we lived in communist Russia, it would be a different story -- this is the US, and my freedom is important to me.

By itself, this seems like it could be a great idea with huge potential, but it's another drop in the bucket, if you ask me...

Re:What The Hell?

[Izago909]

As opposed to the bracelets they currently slap on you that contain your name and info when you are admitted?

I bet you don't have the balls to cut an RFID tag out of your flesh like you would cut off a plastic wristband.

Re: Cashless society.. coming right up.

[mind21_98]

This doesn't mean we're going to have it become mandatory. All it says is that the FDA approved it, but we probably should watch out. People need to quit conjuring up end of world scenarios, in any case.

Wallets and purses get lost in accidents

[G4from128k]

Many people use serious medications that could interact badly with other drug or they have critical medical conditions that affect treatment. In an accident, the EMTs need to know who you are without fumbling around for a wallet or purse (that may have been flung from the car) or jumbled if there are multiple people in the car. Even a med alert bracelet is only as good as it is secure on the wrist. An RFID implant and scanner makes it less likely that you will be separated for your ID.

Re:personal data is personal

[erick99]

Yes. And good for him. This kind of technology can prevent people from getting wrong treatments in the hospital because they will not be mis-identified. It may also keep babies from being switched after birth. There are many good uses besides those two. We just need to address privacy issues up front. This is no different, to me, than the availability of printed records that people can access now. These RFID tags only identify you, they do not contain medical records.

Re:Cashless society.. coming right up.

[sploo22]

for it is the number of a man

Actually, the NIV (widely considered to be more accurate than the King James translation) uses the phrase "for it is man's number". Big difference.

Not the FDA's job to ban this or stop abuse

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

For those that think this is a bad thing, don't blame the FDA. The FDA's only job should be to ensure medical safety, that unsafe products don't harm people, not to prevent the abusive use of a product which is not intriniscally bad. It is the use of the product which can be bad. Isn't that the argument you use in stating P2P software should stay legal?

Saying the FDA should ban this technology because it can be abused is like saying they should ban cough syrup because of DXM abuse or that the MPAA should ban Linux DVD software because it can be used by movie pirates, or that the RIAA should be able to ban P2P software because someone could use it to distribute a billion copies of the latest Britney Spears album.

Re:What The Hell?

[blamanj]

And putting an RFID tag in the bracelet is the right thing to do. You get all the advantages of the RFID and the patient can remove it when they go home.

No freakin implants required.

Oh yeah

[lifebouy]

That would work right up to the MRI. Then it would be slag.
Well, much as this hackles my tin foil hat side, I'll simply say I will be making a microwave gun to cook that sucker if I can't dig it out with an Xacto blade. Heebie Jeebies. 1984 is now.

Re:Patents and security?

[AlphaJoe]

Get on a plane - *SCAN*; "Sorry sir, we believe your heart may give out on this flight and we don't want any lawsuits"

While you may not want it, there is always the possibilty that eventually it will be required, so instead of *SCAN*; "Sorry sir, we believe your heart may give out on this flight and we don't want any lawsuits", instead you will get *SCAN*; "Sorry sir, but this airline requires we have access to your VeriChip in the event of a medical emergency"

Re:Implant?

[Stephen Samuel]

I figure RFID bracelents should do just fine. It still allows me to take it off when I leave the hospital.

Oh, you don't want me to lose my tag when I leave hospital? Why not?

Obligatory Quote

[IamGarageGuy 2]

sorry - couldn't resist: Those who sacrifice liberty for security obtain neither.

RTFA!!!

[unicorn]

Read the linked article.

It's a unique ID tag. That's ALL.

The chip won't have ANY data other than "who" you are. And to get any additional data you have to link into the hospital records.

And the police don't have a chance of getting in to those records thanks to privacy laws on medical records.

STOP THE FEARMONGERING.

It's a paper bracelet with your name on it. That's all. You just won't lose this one.

What a day on Slashdot!

[Anonymous Coward]

We have implantable ID chips, a fleet of automated surveillance airships and then a bill to let our government run through any database it wants to without any warrant to hunt for "terrorists". Wow, I have a great idea, let's link all of these things together! We'll have implanted chips, surveillance airships will use them to track us, and then they will use every database in the country to store and correlate all those data! Then there's no way the terrorists can win and we'll be able to preserve our freedom! Oh wait...

The debate is going on now and both sides keep talking about all the things we are doing to strengthen homeland security. When will it be time to start questioning whether this makes us more secure? Perhaps doing all this might make us less secure at some point? It's not like 20th century governments have some impeccable record of not abusing their power [a-human-right.com] over their citizens...

Posted anonymously, the chilling effect in action.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:personal data is personal

[poptones]

This kind of technology can prevent people from getting wrong treatments in the hospital

So will the prospect of a good lawsuit and losing one's license.

It may also keep babies from being switched after birth.

So... taking their footprints at birth... what's that about then?

Again it comes down to responsibility and the threat of a good lawsuit. Adding tracking devices to us all like so many wild animals because some people are negligent is not a reasonable argument.

Re:Cashless society.. coming right up.

[zoloto]

such a mark is symbolic as to the very nature of our being, personality... as to whom we serve. The devil, or God.

that's as much as I can figure out. Biblical scripture is littered with symbolism. Exact figures are a rarity and as far as I can tell, 99% of numbers are symbolic in meaning.

FDA are not there to set morals

[EmbeddedJanitor]

All the FDA are probably doing is test that the RFID devices have no negative impact on your body. ie. they don't emit RF that will cause cancer and the plastic they are made of doesn't cause you to get sick.

I don't believe the FDA has a mandate to set any moral guidelines (ie saying RFIDs are a "good thing" or a "bad thing"). Same deal when they check abortion drugs etc.

Saying whether to allow RFID as a "good thing" or "bad thing" and should be legal or not is something that congress or whatever do.

Re:Patents and security?

[MourningBlade]

What's wrong with one of those temporary tattoos? We've got some fabulous technology with those (take a look at the female olympic vollyball teams...two or three, if you need them), what's keeping us from printing a 1-week barcode on your shoulder, or other good location (ankle, etc).

Would seem to be a better idea than an implant.

Patient B versus patient Z?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh but wait--the tonsilectomy and the amputation were inputted by the data entry operator in the front office. That is probably where the B-versus-Z screwup was, and this fantastic automation system probably just makes the staff more confident about any errors.

Isn't efficiency nice.

Safeguards?

[YrWrstNtmr]

HA. The only real safeguard with data like this is to not allow access by anyone. Which renders it completely useless, so why bother in the first place.

At least one of the people with actual access to the data (and someone HAS to have access to it), will get pissed off at work, and will snag a few million rows of data (yours, maybe) and ftp/p2p/sneakernet it home. Later, when he gets fired for being an ass, he will sell it to various unsavory characters.

It happened at AOL, it's happened with banks, it's happened with credit card companies.

It will happen.

Re:Cashless society.. coming right up.

[mrbcs]

What could be more subtle and insidious than a small chip, painlessly inserted? Lets think of the "advantages" of this coupled with a cashless society (screws on tinfoil hat):

1. No more illegal drug trade. Hard to sell drugs if you can't get paid.

2. Ditto for prostitution.

3. No more counterfeiting.

4. No more theft. Remember that IBM commercial a while back with a dude looking like he stole some steaks? The guard comes running out of the store after him and says" sir, you forgot your receipt! "Implying that the implanted chip and merchandise was scanned and debited from his account on the way out.

5. No more black market. Barter is all that would be left.

6. No more income tax evasion.

7. Gov't could track every single person. Hard to commit any crime when they know where and when you are.

This is how they are going to sell this idea. There not gonna come out and say it's the mark of the beast, they're gonna do it as sneaky as possible for "the good of humanity". Only the right wing "nut job" Christians are gonna be freaking out. That's when they take us and cut off our heads. /tinfoil hat.

P.S. The original Greek translation actually says IN the forehead or right hand. The translators couldn't wrap their heads around that one.

Peace.

Re:Your Rights Online?

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

The fundamental potential for abuse is that since some institution now has a unique ID linked to you

Drivers license, Social Security Card, Passport...

Re:What's the point?

[Anti_zeitgeist]

He has a point, i work at another large hospital corporation and healthcare is kept confidential within corporations. They have been trying to implement an idea here where everyone would have a smart card with all your info on it and when you hit up a ER, just swipe your card and everything is ready. Whats wrong with that?....when you decide to take a trip to another state....or city even....your card is useless. So if you are in an ER passed out and you happen to be highly allergic to latex......you are screwed.

SSN, Drivers License, CC #, and Now a chip

[WindBourne]

When SSNs first came out, everybody warned about the possibility of abuse for its use as a national number similar to how the nazi's and USSR did

About 20 years ago, it was a huge no-no to use SSNs for doing software, but we did it anyways (actually, I was allowed as I was doing Medical Software in 1985). Then the justice dept cracked down on its use. So everybody switched to Drivers License, but that was considered too much of a national ID.

Now, in the last 3 years, we are required to give SSN's and Drivers Licenses everywhere (bank, jobs, etc). CC companies are now required to give instance access to DOJ whenever they want it. The DOJ has instance access to all tollroads DBs of which cars with tollpass RFIDs are tracking.

The patriot act II (basically passed by both houses and the admin on the day that Sadaam's capture was announced) assures the above and more. (interesting that is was more to DOJ rather than NSA/CIA/NGSA).

And now, the feds want to implant chips in us the same way that I do for my dogs????? Hummmm, Yeah, right.

Re:Cashless society.. coming right up.

[Trogre]

Interesting to note that one place in the human body with a high temperture differential is the forehead. For those of us that have hair, the forehead is a major vent for the braincase, after all.

Thermal gradients are a valid source of power for many devices, and considerable research has been done on ID chips that can do just that. A rice-grain sized chip might still be a bit big for insertion into a forehead, but give it a few years.

The Mark just may be closer than you think.

Re: Cashless society.. coming right up.

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

No, of course it won't. If I were an evil overlord, here's how I would introduce it...

1) Offer it voluntarily for those that believe it will improve one service or another.
2) Only prisoners convicted of felonies.
3) Drunken drivers who have restricted driving privileges.
4) Schoolchildren, after some kidnapping scare.
5) Babies, after a hospital nursery mixup.
6) Ex-cons on parole, people on probation.
7) Military personel (Will help if your body is burned beyond recognition).
8) People who need to enter restricted buildings. (FBI, CIA agents, congressional staffers, whitehouse personel)

At about this point, I'd start offering expedited rows at the checkout counter, bus terminals, airports, etc. Treat those without the chips as "well, you're completely free to choose, after all it's a free country" and the same way you do people who guard their SSN. Make *them* feel like they're crazy, instead of the system being so.

9) State government personel. State vehicle's ignitions will no longer work without them...

Of course, I may not have the order perfect here, and certainly big business will do its part to help. "I'm sorry sir, but this ATM only works if you have a chipID, so that we can be sure your card wasn't stolen!".

There are some things that are practically inevitable should the become possible. It is now possible, and past one of the few regulatory hurdles that might have obstructed it. Have fun being tagged like livestock, all you sheeple.

Re:What The Hell?

[CoronalPendragon]

I don't think so, gentlemen.

The problem is not even a matter of whether you have the 'balls' to do it. Look at the size of these things. These are smaller than a grain of rice, far smaller than a rice grain.

It is a matter of finding it, and digging through enough flesh until you find it. Ouch, I bet that stings.

Easy in, but not easy out.

Re:Cashless society.. coming right up.

[voisine]

Cash will always be around if there is a demand for it. Imagine a culture of Christians unwilling to get the mark. Initially they can trade amongst each other. The most marketable good will become the defacto currency like Vodka in that later days of the soviet union, or american cigarettes in immediate post-war Berlin. There of course will be plenty of marked people who will take a risk and illegally resell their goods with a markup into the non-marked underground economy. As long as the Christians continue to produce things of value to others, they'll be able to survive.

Re:SSN, Drivers License, CC #, and Now a chip

[BCW2]

My original SSN card says (in small print) "Not To Be Used For Idnetification". It was issued about 1970. If you look at my USN dogtag, issued in Feb 1976, guess what they used for my serial number? The government can't even follow their own rules, how can we be expected to?

Tag 'em and bag 'em, California style

[Reziac]

Gee, why does this sound so much like Trusted Computing for Hominids??

In similar schemes, there's Proposition 69 on the fall California state ballot: this would provide for [I quote from the state election info booket]
DNA sampling of
1) all adults and juveniles convicted of any felony offense
2) all adults and juveniles convicted of any sex offense, or of an attempt to commit such an offense (not just felonies)
3) all adults *arrested* for or charges with felony sex offenses, murder, or voluntary manslaguhter (or the attempt to commit such offenses)
4) and starting in 2009, all adults *arrested* for or charge with ANY felony offense.

Which means you go into the state DNA database *whether you're guilty or not*. And while there are provisions supposed to let those found innocent get their sample removed from the database, when have you ever known a gov't to turn loose of any hold it has over its people, once it gets a good grip?

And wouldn't it be easier if everyone was just DNA'd and microchipped at birth, like it or not? :/~

Re:More hysteria

[Money for Nothin']

Is there any reason long-term patients can't also use barcode bracelets instead? If it gets damaged/destroyed, oh no -- we print another for $0.10. Big deal.

There's no freedom-supporting justification for anybody using implantable RFIDs, and there is little practical justification for them either.

Re: Cashless society.. coming right up.

[maxpublic]

And you'd be right. Look at how the idea of a national identifying number was introduced - the SSN. And look at how many things you *can't* do without an SSN, or an SSN equivalent.

The chip will go the same way, with gradual introduction to selected members eventually culminating into "don't have the chip? then we won't do business with you."

Max

Re:Wallets and purses get lost in accidents

[bkr1_2k]

whether you like the comment or not is irrelevant, since the information you posted was misleading at best and plain incorrect at worst.

There are many scenarios where meds are proscribed and paramedics can push them, en route or on scene. Saying that meds can't be pushed and therefore couldn't cause any allergic reaction is just plain incorrect and if you are an EMT, you know that.

Yes patient stability is most important in a trauma situation, and trauma scenes are the most common scenario, but not always.

bkr1_2k

Re:Useful for payments too

[Ratcrow]

...until somebody clones the chip and starts making fraudulent charges using your implant's ID. Then what? Surgery to get a new chip?

Re:What's the point?

[Ratcrow]

Then, the next time they go to a supermarket and pay with a credit card, or go to the DMV, or the airport, or present an ID anywhere that can scan the implant (even without their knowledge or consent) then that place has an association between the RFID tag and the person's identity.

Sure, one supermarket chain here, one airport there, one state government yonder won't make much of a difference. But there are forces that make ubiquitous tracking very likely -- supermarkets already track buying habits, cell phones can be used to geolocate users with records that stretch back for months, and governments want to know where their citizens are at all times for security. All it takes is one court order (or PATRIOT-enabled search) to tie all of those records together.

That's just a little too invasive for my tastes. There may not be a hard-and-fast constitutional protection of privacy in the U.S., but I don't see any reason to make it easier for citizens to be tracked without their knowledge via RFID. It may just be a number, but at this rate, we will all be reduced down to just a number.