RFID Drivers' Licenses Debated 514
meganthom writes "How would you feel about having an RFID chip in your driver's license? Virginia is considering just such a measure, largely because several of the 9/11 hijackers were licensed there. Civil rights advocates are obviously unhappy with this turn of events, and it seems the ACLU has already taken the case. Proponents claim it would help law enforcement determine that you are who you claim to be and would make forgeries less common. The Federal government is also considering uniform 'smart card' standards."
Oh great... (Score:5, Insightful)
How soon until you can buy a pocket ID sniffer/cloner? Or the plans become available on the latest 'warez' site? Great. Just by walking down the street 20 people can steal my identity...
Re:Oh great... (Score:2, Insightful)
Anyone know of a good metal wallet. If the frequency is low enough a rough chainmal or mesh should do the job.
Even easier (Score:5, Informative)
Another thing to do would be to make a reader-detector, to see who is trying to scan your cards surreptitiously. That would be a great way to embarass people and businesses trying to play Big Brother, and you might even be able to get such snooping prohibited by law.
A good idea but... (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems to me that the proper course of action would be to prevent this from becoming law in the first place.
Re:A good idea but... (Score:3, Interesting)
two words... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Even easier (Score:3, Informative)
No, it won't. A faraday cage has to be grounded. A piece of aluminum foil in a cloth pocket is not. Don't get me wrong, it will dampen the signal somewhat, in much the same way that a layer of anything will dampen it. To some extent, it may also act as a wave guide, resulting in hot
Grounding is not required (Score:5, Informative)
If you want an example of this, cut out a small piece of aluminum foil, one inch by four or so. Tune a hand-held AM radio to a strong station. Now put the foil over the housing near the loopstick antenna; the reception will die. Doesn't take much, does it?
Re:Even easier (Score:3, Informative)
Good idea (Score:3, Funny)
The idea of seeing who is snooping your data by listening for retching noises is entertaining.
Re:Oh great... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem come into play when someone or some company can start collecting information about you, tie it to your RFID profile (because they will be in your clothes, wallet, cellphone, etc.) That could then be tied to your movements.
RFID tags at the consumer level are a complete privacy invasion. All up for sale to the highest bidder. Who knows what kind of abuses will come out of this.
Re:Oh great... (Score:3, Insightful)
I AM NOT A NUMBER!!!
Re:Oh great... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh great... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Oh great... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Oh great... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Oh great... (Score:3, Interesting)
But I am still amazed at how far "playing dumb" will take you. It's quite cool how much you can do with that tact.
Re:Oh great... (Score:3, Insightful)
No, I seriously doubt it. Are you suggesting you can get arrested for cutting your licence in half? Or burning it?
"Altering a document" is about presenting fraudulent information, not about damaging it.
-
Re:Oh great... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Oh great... (Score:3, Insightful)
In the meantime, it's probably not the best tech to be putting on a drivers license.
Re:Oh great... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Oh great... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think things would change for any venue that currently requires IDs anwyay (bars, liquir stores, cop pulled you over, etc.) You still give them the card, they visually/physically verify that it's a good card and you look like you, then they check the number against the database and compare it's results to what is printed on your card.
Maybe some voyeuristic ID thieves might have a reader implanted in a glove and grab your ass some night at a bar and they could get the number then, but I doubt it. This could be (should be) just adding another layer of authentication to the "getting carded" process.
Re:Oh great... (Score:5, Interesting)
Just my opinion, but I have serious problems about ANY form of identification that doesn't need to be PHYSICALLY viewed/handled...To what end? If it's another layer, and you STILL need to pull out your ID, how does this help? Perhaps as a replacement for the mag strip? I doubt this would be more efficent or accurate... At least with the mag-strip, you can hawk-eye your cards as someone handles them and you can SEE if they swipe it with some type of hand-held reader... It would be kind of hard to do that with RF if they had a scanner in their pocket they never had to remove...
Dont get me wrong, you brought up some interesting points -- but nowhere near close enough to convince that this is or can be a 'good' thing...
Re:Oh great... (Score:5, Insightful)
But taking your two posts together, why do they need to bother with RFID in the first place?
My last two driver's licenses have had magnetic strips and barcodes on them for swiping or laser scanning. Whether these have all my information on them (due to the short length of the barcode, I doubt it) or just a "200 digit number" all of the information for a legal, observable verification of my identity is already on the card. What reason, other than scanning from a distance, could there be to include RFID in a peice of identification?
RFID range (Score:3, Informative)
Sounds like your keycard and reader aren't talking with RFID.
Hint: if your keycard has a large embedded coil of wire in it, it probably operates through magnetic induction.
HF RFID has a range of at least a couple feet and UHF RFID is more like 10-20 feet.
Re:Read distance depends on the reader (Score:4, Informative)
Not really. To a limited extent, yes, but not as much as you might expect.
I use what I suspect are the same key cards that the grandparent (great grandparent?) poster uses at work. Most of the readers require nearly physical contact. The ones on the garage downstairs, however, to avoid people having to get out of their car, can read those same badges from... I believe 24 inches, if memory serves. Basically, as soon as I get my badge near the car window, it beeps.
The device is passive. It reacts to an RF (or in the case of most badges, magnetic) signal by modulating that signal and bouncing it back. The range, AFAIK, is limited mainly by the transmission power of the reader. Granted, there are other issues, like the ability to get something resembling line-of-sight to the RFID tag (i.e. curvature of the Earth limits), the ability to distinguish between a potentially large number of RFID tags within that range, and multipath distortion problems, but those still won't prevent a range of several feet under most conditions.
There's probably also some fairly high power limit beyond which you would smoke the card if you got too close to the reader, but if you lower that limit enough on your cards to force all RFID readers to only work in close proximity, odds are the devices would have a high failure rate just from "natural" phenomena... like standing too close to your microwave or even walking outside on a day when you can see the aurora borealis.
I wouldn't mind (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't particularily like the Big Brother idea, but I have no qualms about this. You carry your licence so that people know who you are, and this would just provide a better way to verify that information. It would also be a nice way to lower the costs of corporate identification systems. I have a few workstations I manage for students to use at my college in the Physics office. I had gotten some old card readers and just set people's passwords to the raw string of text that their driver's licence would read out. It worked really well to keep them secure and the make it easy for people to log in, and if RFID tags were in our driver's licences it would make keyless entry systems and RFID based computer security systems a lot less expensive to get started with if there was enough secure information on the RFID tag.
Of course there are problems with the fact of how much data would be on there. Could I walk past a pillar in a mall that would read my address and phone number off my licence and sign me up to receive unsolicited calls and mailings? Also, would the data be secure enough if it were to be implemented in a security system? If these concerns were taken care of (well, the security system one less so, probably actually not that feasible, that's just the old hobbiest ticking inside me), then I wouldn't have a problem at all with a more secure and harder to forge driver's licence.
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:5, Insightful)
but I'm not getting Viriginia's apparent reasoning for introducing the RFIDs - "Virginia is considering just such a measure, largely because several of the 9/11 hijackers were licensed there". How would have RFID helped? It's a non sequitur.
As I understand it, the issue wasn't that identification failed at the airport. So how would RFID have helped?
-- james
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:5, Interesting)
You're confused (Score:3, Funny)
Its important to remember this, otherwise our plan to take over the world will fail. (Oops, did I say that out loud?)
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally, I do not give permissions for anybody to monitor my behavoir in this fashion, be them the government, or the private companies who will find this a convenient way of monitoring purchasing habits. If in your ideal world, everyone is conveniently trackable by law, that's fine, but I'll be fighting it every step of the way. If you feel it's your right to force this on me, then I'll see you at
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:3, Interesting)
I think this is a mis-statement. I carry my ID so I can provide evidence of my identity and of my qualification to drive an automobile to those who I believe have a need to know. I do not carry my ID so passersby can sniff my wallet (probably one of the worst turns of phrase I've ever made) and track me without my knowledge.
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:5, Insightful)
I carry my drivers license so I can drive. I have no interest in other people knowing "who I am".
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:5, Interesting)
Might not trouble some, but being a minority I've had my "fair" share of profiling. This brings it to a whole new level.
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:3, Informative)
As opposed to taking your license and registration back to his car and getting all the info then? Please.
By the way, take some time to actaully read other people's experiences with RFID. They don't work unless you are close to the reader, which implies the officer has your license already.
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:3, Insightful)
If used correctly, (I know, HUGE if) this could actually be an argument FOR the situation you describe. Most "minority profiling" isn't entirely based on racism, an entire profile. In the situation you describe, wouldn't it be nice to have your chip tell the officer you are a good, law abiding citizen BEFORE he gets up to your window? I understand it's not fair to have to be flagged as "one of the good ones", but it still works
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:3, Insightful)
What exactly do you do when you are:
- Applying for a job?
- Applying for a loan or bank account?
- Writing a check or using a credit card?
- Getting into a bar or purchasing alcohol or gambling or any other activity with an age requirement?
Driver's licenses are the only uniform photo ID issued in the US. To imply they are only for the purpose of driving implies you are either under 18 and unable to take advantage of most other uses for ID, or you are sitting at home much too often.
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:4, Interesting)
The point is that all of those are activities that where I can make a decision whether to give that information or not. I walk into a place for a job application that looks shady... I just walk right back out and they don't get my info. With an RFID tag broadcasting my info, you remove that choice from me. Not only that, but you enable the covert theft of identity to an absurd degree. It's bad enough that to use my credit card at a restaurant I have to let the waitress take the card out of my site, but to now allow anyone with the sklill to build/buy a remote sniffer to gather the information necessary to apply for new cards in my name....
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:3, Insightful)
But once again, if it is only useful in very close proximity (inches), what advantage would it have over a magstrip or barcode, both of which are much cheaper to implement, and both of which are in place already?
You see the threat as being blown out of proportion, I am asking some very simple, logical questions, the only answers to which that I can find are very disturbing. I.e.:
1) There are already cheap, effective, short range solutions in place to make casual counterfeiting of identity cards more di
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:3, Interesting)
Heh? I seldom carry a license at all. I memorized the number years ago, and in fact, I've never HAD the license when being pulled over by police. (four times in the last 14 years) I've never been given guff because I know my numbers, and when the police call in my ID, everything checks out.
I've never even been verbally told that I am supposed to carry it! (This is in Northern Califo
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:4, Insightful)
Yet.
Ummmmm... (Score:3, Insightful)
Security Problem (Score:3, Insightful)
1) It is a unique identifier that the government (and others) use to differentiate you from others.
2) It used as a means of authenticating that you are who you say you are.
This creates a pro
Re:I wouldn't mind (Score:3, Insightful)
How is it any better than the magnetic strip on the license? Because its high tech?
IMO its a lot like the story last week about the tokens to be used to verify the "kid" online is really a kid. All it does is wrap the high tech mantle around security which makes people think its safer, when really its not.
So how does using an RFID tag make it any more secure? IMO it would be less s
Ahh.. RFID (Score:3, Insightful)
New wallets for everybody! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:New wallets for everybody! (Score:3, Funny)
In Virginia you automagically have your SSN put on your License unless you select the porly worded opt-out checkbox on your application form.
Re:New wallets for everybody! (Score:2)
Yup, MA does. (Although you have the option to change that, ssid is the default)
I'm Born 'n' Bred Virginian (Score:5, Funny)
*sigh*
Anybody got some tin foil?
Re:I'm Born 'n' Bred Virginian (Score:5, Informative)
Pretty Bad (Score:2, Funny)
Yeah we all know how secure those RFID chips are, smart-card or not. I mean, no one would *ever* tamper with them, would they? A magic marker and a bic pen, and the thing is sputtering profanities at whoever accesses it! Better... I can see the expression on the officer's face now when he pings mine and sees I have installed Linux on it [slashdot.org].
Rfid (Score:2, Funny)
The terrorists are quaking (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The terrorists are quaking (Score:2)
Re:The terrorists are quaking (Score:3, Insightful)
They weren't hijakers before they got the licenses only after.
Re:The terrorists are quaking (Score:3, Funny)
This isn't much different (Score:3)
I think that RFID for some reason just always triggers a negative response from the
Re:This isn't much different (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:This isn't much different (Score:2)
Walk by ID theft... (Score:3, Interesting)
It would make identity theft easier (Score:3, Insightful)
FUD time...
Proponents claim it would help law enforcement determine that you are who you claim to be and would make forgeries less common.
Yeah? It would make it easier for me to know who you are too. One enterprising geek on the subway could snag everyone's identities. You thought cell phone cloning was a problem? Hoo buddy.
Joe Geek might not be able to forge an ID, but he doesn't have to in order to snag someone's identity.
Might want to tin-foil coat that wallet...
Oh no!!! The TERRORISTS!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
THE 9/11 HIJACKERS HAD VALID DRIVERS LICENSES.
THE 9/11 HIJACKERS HAD VALID DRIVERS LICENSES.
THE 9/11 HIJACKERS HAD VALID DRIVERS LICENSES.
THE 9/11 HIJACKERS HAD VALID DRIVERS LICENSES.
Stop using the hijackings to justify your pet police state!
Re:Oh no!!! The TERRORISTS!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
"Nine of the 19 9/11 terrorists obtained their licenses illegally in Virginia, and that was quite an embarrassment,"
They might have _obtained_ them illegally but they were still valid and let them pass security easily. Having a valid RFID inside a valid license will not stop anyone from Doing Bad Things (tm).
Re:Oh no!!! The TERRORISTS!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
THE 9/11 HIJACKERS HAD VALID DRIVERS LICENSES.
I'm not sure how "has a known identity" became conflated with "is known to be sane." What the lawmakers are really looking for is an identification card which is linked to a psychological examination.
Oh, I really shouldn't have said that out loud.
yeah, but ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Virginia government officials need to keep reading this until they get it:
THE 9/11 HIJACKERS HAD VALID DRIVERS LICENSES.
I agree; RFID licenses won't help.
That said, what do you (and the rest of the "I'm too cool to worry about terrorists" crowd) propose? The same people who are against measures like this are also generally against anything that would have prevented them from getting valid licenses.
I'm genuinely curious. I don't believe for a million years that the Kerry crowd is going to tighten
Re:yeah, but ... (Score:4, Insightful)
How about this: Let's stop pissing people off so that they don't feel like it's worthwhile to blow our stuff up. Then, let's stop blowing up their stuff so that they won't have any reason to retaliate.
There, we're right back where we should have been pre-9/11. Stop being frightened by the boogey-man-terrorist. Oh, he's out there alright, and he's real, but I'm much more worried about the crazies here in our own country, with valid IDs, that think they need to kill their girlfriends when they break up with them, or hold babies out of car windows while driving, or go on a sniper rampage in Washington DC.
You can get struck by lightning, or a car can come careening out of control and smush you into the sidewalk in a New York Minute. Drunk drivers are way more dangerous than any terrorist to you. Police-state Gestapo tacticts are way more dangerous to you than any terrorist.
I think the real issue is (Score:2, Interesting)
I mean they are already proposing chips so you can breeze through airport checkin, but how long before that is cloned and people buzzword("terrorists") can breeze on through...
trusting technology to solve all problems is a problem
Re:I think the real issue is (Score:2)
Fine. (Score:3)
Not good, and how will this help? (Score:2)
For this, privacy invasion,
Re:Not good, and how will this help? (Score:2)
Wealthy people will hire drivers. They won't carry RFID themselves. The very wealthy don't follow ordinary rules.
Could you put the card in an RFID blocking holder? (Score:2, Interesting)
On one hand.. (Score:2)
The only issue I see is the potential for snooping, and I'm not sure why that's really a big risk.
I do take issue with the 9/11 thing being dragged in - why is it that you lot are letting the government push through all this crap? None of it has any bearing on 9/11! The hijackers were already in the country, had valid visas etc. etc. What the hell do drivers li
Prevent terrorism. Right... (Score:2)
Smart, determined terrorists will always be able to assume the identities (and obtain the documentation) they need to operate. They may need more time to infiltrate, but that's about it. There's just too many overworked DMV workers out there for an unremarkable, prepared person to socially engineer a driver's license (or whatever) out of.
So, if you make falsification harder,
Make me uneasy (Score:2, Interesting)
not for me..... (Score:5, Interesting)
I took my current DL and bulk erased the mag stripe, then threw it on the concrete and stood on it and twisted my foot, grinding the barcode up so that it is no longer machine readable.
Visually, my DL still functions, it shows my ID correctly, it just can't be read by a machine.
If they want to check it against some DB, they have to call it in the old fashioned way.
"Sir, your DL is damaged, you need to have it replaced" "Gee, imagine that, I guess I better do something about that huh?" and that's that.
Resistance is NOT futile.
Re:not for me..... (Score:3)
In your case, I'm not sure what you are doing. I'm not sure what magnetic stripes and bar codes on an ID are any threat to privacy. At least magnetic stripes and bar codes can't be sniffed.
Re:not for me..... (Score:4, Interesting)
When you go to eat and want a margarita, they swipe your DL through a machine and Xref it to a county DB to see if you are paid up on your "license to drink". If you are, the bring you your drink. If there are any warrants out for you, no matter how trivial they may be, such as a traffic ticket or you are on probation, the waitress/waiter holds your DL and the police show up there to collect you. The county keeps a DB of your drinking habits too. I've seen this happen to friends. They submit to this because they feel the need to drink outweighs the need for privacy.
And what about when you buy groceries and they swipe your DL? Do you folks really, really think that a DB of your purchases isn't being compiled?
Get real. Go cash. Ditch the system, it's evil...
Re:not for me..... (Score:3, Interesting)
Screw that! (Score:2)
largely because several of the 9/11 hijackers (Score:4, Insightful)
More direct attacks on privacy and tracking all Americans, in the name of 9/11, with something that would have had absolutely no effect on preventing the 9/11 attack at all.
Perhaps a better idea would be to not give terrorists drivers licenses at all, or maybe not to give illegal alliens drivers licenses at all. Instead many states (including mine) have gone out of their way to make it easy for known illegal alliens to obtain drivers licenses! But somehow at the same time this is being used to justify making people cary one more thing that will make it extremely easy to track them.
Kind of makes you think that all those crackpots who question how and why World Trade Center Building 7 collapsed when it wasn't even hit by planes, the only skyscraper to ever collapse from such a fire before or since, might be on to something.
Active or Passive? (Score:2)
If it's active, such as an ignition interlock that prevents your car from powering up unless the RFID reader embedded in the seat detects a licensed driver, we've got a problem -- but that's not what's being proposed.
Passive RFID drivers' licenses cannot be used to track citizens' whereabouts 24/7 unless the government is willing to spend trilli
Project TinFoilHat (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, onto Project TinFoilHat. If issued such a card, I will build a Faraday cage into a belt pouch, and there their assine tracking device can sit until a POLICEMAN asks to see it. I know damned well they can build RFID detectors that can work at great distances; I will not cooperate and being tracked on a giant Ms. Pac Man screen by whomever can afford the equipment.
As for those of you who don't care about this, you are good Germans. What else can I say.
Re:Project TinFoilHat (Score:3, Interesting)
Presumably, the hijackers' licenses would have been read by a computer and then compared to a security watch list. If the hijackers were on the watch list, they would have been flagged and possibly prevented from boarding the plane.
My initial reaction, like many I've read here, was "Virginia ought to be a little more careful about who it gives licenses to." But a moment's reflection made me realize that lice
Anonymity vs Identification (Score:2, Insightful)
How does this make it more secure? (Score:3, Insightful)
BUT, the licenses that the hijackers had were LEGAL licenses (i.e. they went through the process of getting a license and were granted one). The problem isn't the fact that the license itself is not secure, but the PROCESS which grants the license is NOT SECURE. FIX THE PROBLEM NOT A SYMPTOM.
That is just my 2 cents.
Reminds me of a kind of awful movie I saw (Score:2)
In other news... (Score:3, Insightful)
Similarly, Oldsmobile saloons would also become proscribed items on the same date. Current owners of Oldsmobiles have until 15 October to hand them in to a Federal car pound.
Great Tool -- for political control (Score:3, Interesting)
RFID in drivers licenses means that the license information can be read from a short distance away, say in a turnstile or any other narrow entrance. This would enable someone to determine everyone who attends events, night clubs, etc. Someone with an appropriate RFID receiver could walk through a crowd and record who is present.
While such a system would make life easier and safer for police, it would make anonymity a thing of the past. How long would it be before our current representatives, who are completely gung ho on helping business, would allow businesses to use the RFID to identify customers entering and leaving businesses? The businesses could use the information to run credit checks. Businesses could determine how much money you have to spend the moment you walk in the door.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I think the potential abuses of this technology far outweigh the benefits.
It is a shame that we in the U.S. have reacted to 9/11 the way we have. The world is a dangerous place and it makes sense to put reasonable security procedures in place, but no amount of protection will protect us 100%. There will always be a risk, especially in a free society. Personally, I accept that risk and embrace it. That risk is the price of freedom.
The terrorists that attacked us sought to destroy our way of life and make us afraid. They win each time we accept another limitation on our freedom in the name of security. Don't let them win.
9/11 is the new "Think of the children!" (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, you attach 9/11 to it. No matter how disconnected. Fight it, and you clearly support terrorism.
Anyone willing to discuss this rationally? (Score:3, Insightful)
So, I don't see why RFID suddenly makes stealing people's identities so much easier as half the posts on here are claiming. You'd still have to hack into the db to know what the details of that person are if you randomly stole the code from the RFID chip.
--RJ
RFID Bad, Smart Card ok (Score:3, Interesting)
On the other hand a smart card would be ok depending on the type of info on it. I don't see anything wrong w/ having a smart card that holds the data no my drivers license so I can insert it in somethign instead of holding it while the casher tries to figure out where the "date" field is to see if I'm ok to buy the beer. My first worry on this front is that the data on the smart card would be too trusted. People would assume that because it is electronic and possibly encrypted it would be more valid than the info on the front of the card. The other worry is that power hungry law makers and law enforcement would want to store more data on the card just because they had the additional space that is much less visible than the printed front. I don't care if my card has digitally stored anything that is on the front or back of the drivers license in human understandable format, but if my drivers license now carries, say, my fingerprint, my mental health, my criminal record, etc, then I would be strictly against it.
I wouldn't mind (Score:3, Interesting)
From what I see, as long as they don't list SSN, DOB, address, or other personally identifying information on it, there are no privacy problems. It lets someone see a mostly useless number from a few feet away.
Hypothetical question (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's also say that all the card stores is an ID number (ie: not your address, birthday etc; all that would have to be securely queried from the Dept of Transportation).
If both of these hypotheticals were in place, would you feel that this was still unreasonable? I'm neither trolling nor starting a flame war, I'm just curious if people object more to the perceived lack of security or the potential abuse of power from "the man".
If you are worried about "the man", please explain why this is worse that a barcode or magnetic stripe (again, assuming the security measures mentioned above).
Wonderful logic (Score:5, Insightful)
because wouldn't everyone agree that it would have been just so much better if the 9/11 hijackers had Virginia drivers licenses with RFID chips embedded in them when they flew into the WTC. Sigh. Putting RFID chips in drivers licenses doesn't make it any harder for someone (terrorist or not) to get a drivers license. It wouild make just about as much sense to say "Virginia is considering just such a measure because tasty smoked ham is made in Virginia. There's no correlation between the two, but every effect must have a cause, so we'll use ham." I'm thinking that the "logic" here is that if they know someone is a terrorist, they can use RFID chip scanners to find them more easily. But if you know someone's a terrorist, then maybe you should arrest them when they come to pick up their driver's license in the first place, or when they get their airline ticket, or when they get pulled over by a cop for speeding, or at any other time when they actually present their driver's license and/or name. This is a solution to a problem we'd love to have. If someone could solve the problem of figuring out who's a terrorist, and the only obstacle was in finding them, then maybe this would be usefull. As it is, this is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
VA General Assembly Pages (Score:3, Informative)
VA Senators [state.va.us]
VA Delegates [state.va.us]
You can use the "Whose my legislator?" page to find out your employees, I mean representatives, if you don't know.
Not a great idea (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Oh, phooey (Score:2)