Flash Mobs a Threat to Security? 582
RawCode writes "News about a recent report released by the RCMP suggests that flash mobs could pose a future threat to security. 'Some are aimed at celebrities. Tech-savvy teenaged girls in Britain can quickly spread the word on the whereabouts of Prince William, surrounding him with hundreds of screaming fans. Some are political, organizing protests. Text-messaging was instrumental to organizing public demonstrations in the Phillippines that forced President Joseph Estrada from office'."
as always, our leaders look out for the elite (Score:5, Interesting)
If it is lives they want to save, how about all the millions of working class people who die obesity, cancer, heart disease, etc? Instead we pay to make sure some elite figurehead won't have his hair rumpled by teenaged girls.
Typical of the human critter....
Tinfoil Hat Government. (Score:4, Interesting)
When the British police confiscate cell phones as they are apparently "empowered to do so" are they allowed to go though the phones call list and stored numbers or would that require a warrant? The ol' "guilt by association" thing...
Security, Security (Score:3, Interesting)
Most are not political, just silly. (Score:4, Interesting)
Everyone who reads this should go to this guy's blog [fatality.co.uk] and post a comment about how you are looking for someone named Betty.
overflow (Score:1, Interesting)
The location of all "stars" should be posted all the times.
First, you'd see that any given time there are tons of stars moving around in the city, which will make them more "common".
Second, if you can find out any time where the stars are, spotting them is not even exciting anymore.
Overflow the crowd with info, so that it will become a no-big-deal issue.
Re:Two thoughts (Score:2, Interesting)
perhaps the reverse could be made true ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Could the Internet, phones, etc. be used equally well to detect, prepare for, disrupt and otherwise mess with Flash-mobbers?
Of course that would require a sufficiently large and motivated group of people with lots of time on their hands who are interested in preventing mayhem ... ;)
Re:as always, our leaders look out for the elite (Score:2, Interesting)
Are we going to have large numbers of suicide bombers waiting around for a target of opportunity? Suppose there were four. The first one signaled the second "I'm going off at 1st and main... Now." So the second bomber arrives. The next one to arrive goes off in the middle of the densest crowd of spectators, signalling that he's gone off.
But, wait! you wouldn't need flash mobs for that; you just need the bad guys loitering every two or three blocks and waiting to have a crowd to blow up in.
Hmmm... If you spot a high-value target, like a Prime Minister, wouldn't you just whack him if so equipped? Or call for backup if not? But not a flash mob...
So these folks really ARE just looking for things to outlaw? Hmmm...
Seems to me (Score:5, Interesting)
And since it's changing the world it isn't surprising to me that there are those who would like to see this form of communication restricted.
Signal to noise.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Just put this article in the paper, and wait for other teenage boys to get the idea of throwing a few posts on the web about how the "prince" (or whatever target you want) will be at a certain location.
Then just sit back and wait as all the girls run around frantically, desperately trying to find someone that isn't there.
More noise == problem solved.
Coordinated behavior = power (Score:5, Interesting)
How are flash mobs more dangerous than say... (Score:5, Interesting)
A soccer ball is the symbol of real terror!
Re:Protecting those in power from the evil truth. (Score:4, Interesting)
All of that chaos would make it difficult for the secret service to protect [that person] from the nut looking to do damage.
Re:Well as for America... (Score:4, Interesting)
No very large group protesting has ever been 100% peaceful. and No response from the government has ever been to protect those citizen's rights.
If you believe that the Constitution or the Bill of Rights applies to everyone equally in the United States, you either just got here, or have lived under a rock for the past 200 years.
It's the one ideal waved in everyone's faces that is the biggest hyprocacy on this planet.
As a US citizen, that fact makes me sick.
Only if you are a fascist (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Flash Coffee and Ice Cream (Score:2, Interesting)
amphetamines of the people (Score:4, Interesting)
"Flash mobs" are under attack first, because they've got "mobs" in their name, and most Americans have no other idea of what they are, never having the chance to participate. Once they're on the "terrorist" side of the "with us or against us" equation, look for blogs to get lumped in. I'd expect that by the end of 2005, several of the most reliable websites without FCC-controlled components will have been spiked with "true lies". Like the simulated Bush draft-dodging memos that killed CBS as a messenger of their subsequent Iraqmire documentary. The mediacracy prefers potatoes to surfers.
Re:Someone think of the celebrities! (Score:2, Interesting)
I've forgotten what the justification was, but I suspect the idea was to avoid demagogues.
Re:The quote is..... (Score:3, Interesting)
> Margaret Mead
"Originally overheard in a Munich beer hall, 1923, and again at the Wansee Conference, 1942." - A Cynic
Just British!?! (Score:2, Interesting)
Heck, Canada had its flash mob when the hockey team won the world cup last week. They turned over cabs and made a nuisance of themselves in downtown Toronto.
Re:Well as for America... (Score:2, Interesting)
"The government" didn't fire on those students - the guardsmen did. And it wasn't all students who attacked the guardsmen without provocation - it was just the Kent State students.
The Fountainhead (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Two thoughts (Score:4, Interesting)
The next question we need to ask is, whose security do large scale protests threaten? It would certainly seem to be a small minority that are threatened by these protests, not the average Joe. I know that I don't think twice when I see protestors. I see it as a sign of democracy, true democracy, in action.
innate, perhaps (Score:5, Interesting)
In one set of experiments, monkeys were willing to sacrifice very large quantities of their favorite beverage in order to simply look at pictures of higher-ranking monkeys in their social group for a period of time.
Sort of puts a new spin on those celeb mags in the supermarket checkout lines, doesn't it?
Re:RCMP = Royal Canadian Mounted Police (Score:2, Interesting)
The RCMP always had a political role and is keeping tabs on people with political affinities that purport to change the political system, no matter if it is advocated along legal channels or not.
But the RCMP has no problems in infliltrating and manipulating terrorist groups it setup. For example, 34 years ago, the RCMP arranged for a corrupt minister to be kidnapped [theglobeandmail.com] and killed days before he was to be arraigned for being in the mob, thus not only sparing embarrassment to the government, but also giving a nice pretext to declare martial law and help eliminate the prime minister's political ennemies.
The RCMP, like all law-enforcement agencies, is notorious for going after the wrong people. For example, two years ago, it deliberately fed false information to the FBI who then deported a canadian citizen to Syria [google.com] where he was tortured for a year.
My father, a notable academician, has an RCMP file because 30 years ago, he designed a poster for a russian cultural event. Thanks to this, I am barred from ever holding a security clearance. I am guilty for reason of parenthood...
More recently, I saw first-hand that the RCMP methods of investigation are horrenduously flawed. A former employer had sold computers to what turned out to be criminal telemarketing scammers, and they investigated the seized computer by mixing-up the hard-disks so much that they had to ask us to help them sort out their fuckup. They had put the servers hard disks in workstations and vice-versa... A total bunch of clueless morons.
So, compared to the RCMP, the FBI looks like a model police force.Re:Sure it is a threat. (Score:3, Interesting)
This kind of stuff is scary. A friend described a group of people doing some sort of flash mob stuff in a park in San Francisco recently. Presumably they were just doing it for fun, or because they don't have a life, but suppose they were rehearsing to overwhelm the flight attendants on a plane or the bank tellers in a bank through nearly instantaneous mob action.
On the other hand, security personnel could easily implement the same techniques, and perhaps even do it better using sophisticated in-ear comm devices and a "mob meister" orchestrating the whole thing from a server room somewhere. For example, plainclothes police could suddenly pounce on an entire street gang, thus avoiding giving them a chance to flee the scene. There are lots of possibilities.
Hmm. This is disturbing. I'm going to stay away from crowds from now on
Emulate the Swiss in crime prevention (Score:3, Interesting)
The Swiss are issued guns as part of their mandatory military service, and required to keep them in the home and be proficient with them. You don't hear much about violent crime being committed in Switzerland.
Arming citizens, giving them the duty and more importantly the *ability* to protect themselves, is a great way to prevent crime. Unfortunately, the USA is so stricken with cultural victimitis that even though guns are still allowed, actually using them in self-defense is likely to result in civil or criminal prosecution because the would-be assailant is a victim of The Man, racial profiling, whatever. It is strange that this is one of the few cases Europeans provide a social model that Americans would do well to emulate.
How far would a terrorist, or even a normal murderer or rapist, get in a well-armed society? Especially the kind of society where the people can text-message each other quickly and easily? The end of the Wild West started with the proliferation of the telegraph, so that distant towns could communicate with each other and warn each other about dangerous outlaws.
US flash mobs (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Flash mobs work for freedom also (Score:3, Interesting)
It changes. No more 420 arrests; regardless of the 'law'.
Boy, that cracks me up! Given the current events, what will happen is that The Powers That Be will try to control the situation thru some bonehead restriction of technology.
Are people using cell phone text messages to spread the word? Then expect said service to be restricted under some "security act".
Its banned here.. (Score:3, Interesting)
All this ws co ordinated through SMS(text messaging). But the main organiser was called up by the cops the next day and asked not to hold any more of such mobs or there would be arrests.I don't think any one wants to face the prospect of an arrest just for holding flash mobs.
what the?.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Everyone talks as though they're dangerous out-of-control, pretencious politcal statements thought up by flunked out students.
So far I have been to all but one of the flashmobs here in London and at every single one there has been zero-police presence, but it isn't as though they can't get the information out fast enough or arrange the man-power. Not this minute did I receive an email outlining the next mob in London (a week from now)
Every time there has been a mob it's on the evening news, and not once has the idea of 'terrorist attacks' surfaced, it is always a light-hearted affair (note this is all post 9/11 as well)
I think this just goes to show the highly-overzealous and inanity of current thought towards anyone normal having something remotely near un-regulated fun. Not to mention the seemingly constant specture of 'terrorism' and other assorted panic buzz-words 'biological' 'chemical' 'islam' 'mushroom cloud'...you get the idea.
I'll be going to the mob next week regardless of what all the politcal advisors and sercurity experts say.
Re:Two thoughts (Score:2, Interesting)
go to an event with the person and scream so much they don't even hear the music
I'm kind of off-topic here, but I hear ya.. I seem to always have a seat near some drunk guy who just won't shut up. Last time this happened to me it was at Ozzfest. Some die-hard Judas Priest fan was screaming the whole time. He screamed "Ju - das - Prieeeeeeest" for like 8 hours before they ever hit the stage. Then when they did hit the stage he was totally silent. How annoying.
New Media is always suspect (Score:3, Interesting)
People of a certain age remember when "Television would rot the minds of the youth of America" and "Rock and Roll was 'dangerous jungle music' that would cause uncontrollable urges in today's youth." These were horrified reactions to new media on the part of the more conservative elements of society.
At the same time, the "conservative" elements of US society applauded when the fax machine in Soviet Russia became a tool for the masses to communicate without government censorship. Yeltsin came to power largely due to mass faxes in Russia (predomanently in Moscow) told the real story of the government coup attempt on Gorbachev. Gorby lost face because he "allowed" it to happen by remaining Communist and a well-informed (via fax) Yeltsen became an instant hero because he stood up to the Red Army generals who wanted Gorby's ouster.
Obviously, the conservative elements in Soviet Russia didn't think so highly of the fax machine.
I note one Russian news service is called "Interfax" and, for a while, was a very independant and trusted news agency.
What bothers me is that laws have been passed to allow the confiscation of cellular phones and other new media devices to prevent the use of these new media for the purpose of organization "against" something or "for" something else. These laws will be selectively enforced to "edit" what kinds of flash mobs will be permitted by governments who wish to use those laws as that kind of tool.
I would predict that this kind of "editing" will amount to unequal enforcement. For example, were Conservative Christians in the US to "Flashmob" a clinic that offers family planning, there would be few arrests under a Bush government. But a monthly "flashmob," also known as Critical Mass [criticalmassrides.info] was broken up by police in New York in late September because the riders supposedly went where police decided they should not go (even though they were obeying all traffic laws).
Critical Mass has become a "reason to arrest" for the NYPD only since their August 28th event just before the Republican National Convention. [cnn.com]
This amounts to unequal enforcement and standing before US law enforcement, as no prior Critical Mass gathering had ever resulted in arrests.
Critical Mass holds the meets in order to promote non-polluting transportation and encourage the construction and maintenence of safe bike lanes. That doesn't sound like terrorism to me
What the hell are you talking about? (Score:3, Interesting)
I read the article you pointed to, where does it say that the RCMP setup a terrorist group? Where does it say that the RCMP arranged for someone to kidnap and murder this minister? The closed thing I could see was this:
On Oct. 5, 1970, members of the FLQ kidnapped British diplomat James Cross. The Mounties had thoroughly infiltrated the organization years earlier, yet the situation was not deemed sufficiently urgent to prevent Premier Robert Bourassa from flying to New York to woo American investors. However, with the kidnapping of Pierre Laporte (and two days before his murder), things took on a feverish quality.Which only states that the Mounties had infiltrated, that is, had informats or under cover agents, in the FLQ. That certainly does not mean they had any influence over the decisions the FLQ made. At worse it shows a failure to act.
Assumine that Laporte is the minister you are referring to, if the RCMP wanted him killed why would they be giving evidence to the local police that caused them to ask for emergency powers? Wouldn't the best play be to just let the terrorists kill the kidnapped victim?
Re:Flash mobs work for freedom also (Score:3, Interesting)
You're right, we do have the highest incarceration rate in the world, but it's not by far the highest rate.
Re:Learn how civil disobedience works (Score:3, Interesting)
If all you're doing is tying up police, they'll just hire more police, and advocate privatizing the police force so they can make money off of that, too. What you have to do is figure out who is making all the money from the current situation, and how people acting in concert can stop that money from flowing.
So you have to ask yourself, who is making all the money from whatever you care about being illegal? Two groups:
- those who sell it at astronomicly marked up prices
- those who profit from lots of people being in jail.
with, I suspect, the former group making the most money & therefore having the strongest interest.Re:The quote is..... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:And the alternative (Score:3, Interesting)
And you must choose one of them. No waffling.
Re:The quote is..... (Score:3, Interesting)
While one might quibble over whether "cultural invasion" is an "offense", the supporting of the Israel oppression and genocide of the Palestinians is clearly an offense, as well as the supporting of the Arab monarchies in exchange for oil.
Not to mention colonialism and religious warfare going back centuries.
bin Laden's error was in killing US citizens who were clueless about any of this. Had he limited his attacks to the White House, Pentagon, and especially the CIA, I doubt anybody would have been as upset since it would have been obvious why he attacked those targets.
Still, from his viewpoint, it IS a war against the West - not because "they hate our freedom" (although many of them probably do) but because they hate our policies. This has been explicitly stated by bin Laden and numerous other Arab critics for years now.
And it is no surprise that bin Laden regards Westerners in any capacity as the enemy - since most fools in the West regard any Muslim as the enemy.
As for the Japanese, they could have been defeated in COMBAT BY COMBATANTS. Civilians did not need to be killed for this purpose. Any other statement is justification for war crimes. Period.
Of course, as a Transhuman, I couldn't care less about how many humans get killed by whatever means - as long as they aren't of value to the Transhuman purpose. But pointless killing is incorrect by any measure. And in that respect, both 9/11 and the nuking of Japan - and the continued slaughter of Iraqi civilians by US troops - as well as the random killing of Iraqis by Iraqis - are incorrect.
Go here [newsgateway.ca] for a video of the US continuing to murder civilians in Iraq in the name of "peace, democracy and the 'war on terrorism'.