Does Google Censor Chinese News? 547
mOoZik writes "A story carried by New Scientist suggests that Google might be playing into the hands of the Chinese government by blocking certain news stories which may be deeded inappropriate. Some users recently reported that Google's Chinese news search returned different results depending when they searched using a computer based outside of China. The claims were substantiated by researchers who connected to computers inside the country. Read on and decide for yourself."
*shakes head* (Score:1, Interesting)
Alternatives (Score:2, Interesting)
All The Web [alltheweb.com]
Remeber alternatives are what encourages competition and that can only be a good thing.
Any other good search engines people can recommend?
No specific charges (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe not censor but (Score:5, Interesting)
I have noticed if I search for a story I will find it, but the google portal does give a good indication of what the US is seeing.
For example Bushes war records. You check the news/search engine all you find is about the CBS documents.
However if you were to dig more you would find that a judge has ordered the release of the originals (ref: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6022115/).
I've wondered if this is a new system of polluting the news on the net. As it is harder to control stories but easy to bury them.
I'd be surprised if they didn't (Score:5, Interesting)
Note that I don't think this is right, and the current internet censorship really sucks, neither does it work --- new sites containing western political views spring up every day and they can't censor them one by one. The recent efforts against porn sites are even more laughable, considering that it is still hard to find a news site in China that does not contain sexual content deemed inappropriate for children by most parents. Hopefully some time in the future they will admit that such efforts are useless and use the money on places that really need them (such as some poor rural areas).
Re:censorship by obscurity (Score:2, Interesting)
The issue is broader here.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Many of us on Slashdot use Google very frequently (almighty god, give us this day our daily byte...) to find all kinds of information including stuff that we need and use to make our livelihood. We also use google to keep up with the news. Mostly, we find what we need if it is out there on the net.
This easy access to information on the net seems to have distorted our expectations somewhat. We expect, nay demand, that Google find everything there is to find, always, correctly, without fear or favour, without regard to consequences that might affect Google itself, without consideration for the laws of the many lands that Google serves - in short we want Google to be a completely good and benevolevent omniscient oracle. Googles 'do ot be evil" motto is partly to blame for this - especially to people unfamiliar with the context of the phrase. I don't think the motto calls on Google to commit hara-kiri to assert its fealty to freedom and the protection of all good in the universe. I do not expect Google to take on the Death Star in a battered Millenium Falcon. I do expect, and rightfully, that google will not screw me over by selling my personal information, by setting terms and conditions that take away my ability to use it in conjunction with any other service or sofware I want, by taking away my right to choose, by deliberately and maliciously determining what I see in order to increase their profit.
Unfortunately, the same omniscient hold that Google has on the information on the net makes it easier for oppressive governments to control information. Previously, where such regimes had to track and control a million individual sources of information, they can now achieve that control by influencing Google. Since Google is subject to the laws of the countries where it operates (GASP!), it has no choice but to comply when threatened with complete blocking of its services in e.g. China or France. Remember the case of Yahoo! and neo-Nazi material? You can bet that Yahoo! will pull that information now that it is clear the first amendment will not protect them from legal process in France or Germany in respect of that material.
So, the question is, do we give up on google altogether? Of course not - it has for better or worse, grown into an extension of our memory, we google as easily as we breathe - my three year old daughter knows that google will help her find her favorite cartoon sites! What we need is a tempering of the expectation that we have of Google. Get used to the idea - you will need it more in the days to come, Google is merely another tool you have at your disposal. It is NOT the be all and end all of all known human wisdom.
Re:That's just business.. (Score:2, Interesting)
The attitude of the US is sickening, with utter disregard to sovereignity of other nations, and the attitude of the rest of the world in letting the US puppet the UN into submission is sad to see.
And those that shamelessly ass-lick everything that the US does (Britain, for one) no matter how inconsiderate it is to international laws makes it something to think about.
Re:rephrase (Score:4, Interesting)
Uh, yes [google.com]. That's what everyone is talking about.
Re:rephrase (Score:5, Interesting)
Kind of like their old policy on takedown notices.
Journalists used to do the same thing before they sold-out to the government. For eaxmple, if they were in a war situation and the government censored pieces of their footage, they'd just broadcast black on-air so that viewers knew SOMETHING was being withheld from them by the government and they could start asking questions.
But journalists have become the pawns and puppets of government now, and rather than holding them accountable, they're just climbing into bed with them. Makes me sick.
N.
Re:That's just business.. (Score:4, Interesting)
on the left column: " 6) You can make money without doing evil."
In fact the following google search [google.com] returns a hell of a lot of results. Though on closer inspection it seems that pop up ads = evil, whilst censoring results on behalf of the chinese goverment = profit.
Re:rocking in the free world... (Score:2, Interesting)
Click World1 on the left and go into any of the feeds, a lot have different restrictions.
Another example is here (checked link this time):
http://rtv.rtrlondon.co.uk/2004-09-22/2b32d49c.ht
which is marked as
"TV AND WEB RESTRICTIONS~**PART NO ACCESS IRAQ**~"
Eh? (Score:5, Interesting)
Also what exactly did they proove here? it seems a bit of a bad explination, if google was providing different chinese content based on your position relative to the firewall then that would mean the firewall was doing the censoring right? "Google China" means that google has determined you are in China from your IP or the address you typed - if the news was the same on both sides then that would be dodgy because it would mean the firewall wasnt changing anything so google must be?
Not just chinese news... (Score:3, Interesting)
more info here [indymedia.org]
Can't blame them but it's a pity. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:That's just business.. (Score:3, Interesting)
i know a guy who used to work in one of the south-american sweatshops making clothes or shoes (i don't remember) everyone gets so upset about. he and his wife were no fans of the people who hounded nike and friends to stop such practices; in their view, such practices were the only thing which gave him any income, and eventually enabled him to leave. now, doubtless this worked out better for him than for most, but these "evil" sweatshops did give him and his coworkers income that they would not otherwise have had, and many were grateful for the opportunity.
Re:Eh? (Score:4, Interesting)
A point of clarification, IBM not only supplied, but also had IBM employees servicing the machines within the concentration camps.
Re:Google's Reply (Score:1, Interesting)
You get different blocks on different isps.
Blocked stuff on 163 is different to blocked stuff on cable, and again different to adsl.
Try cable if you want BBC news.
Get 163 if you want to see whats blocked.
Different area's different blocks - the blocking seems to be done at the isp router rather than a general countrywide one.
I haven't done much analysis for a while though, your mileage may vary.
Mostly its the crappy geocities sites that are blocked on all networks here.
Lawrence @ Shanghaiguide.com
www.shanghaiguide.com
Re:rephrase (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:That's just business.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Very good. That's exactly what Google is doing, providing a venue for the insertion of capitalism (money) and information (partial search).
"If we say 'that's just business' we are putting a rubber stamp on China's current activities."
Please give an alternative which would allow democratic countries to have a foot in the door if you would deny those companies who would abide by their rules (that is, be allowed in in the first place)? Assuming you preclude war, that is.
Transparent proxy. (Score:2, Interesting)
Wow, more hypocracy please? (Score:2, Interesting)
The average American does a lot more to support China's policies than Google does by filtering a few searches.
Of course my hope is that stability and economic growth have a good chance of breaking the stranglehold of any dictatorial government. But we will have to wait and see.
I'm surprised and ashamed at some on Slashdot... (Score:1, Interesting)
It has come out now that many US corporations did business with the Nazi's because there was money to be made, they didn't consider the moral questions of their paricipation in one of the most monstrous regimes in human history because "there was money to be made." Well, I'm not sure what warped philosophy lets a corporation off the hook because they want to make money, but IBM making punch cards to help the Nazi's more efficiently keep track of and kill Jews. But Companies such as: BASF, Bayer, BMW, Daimler Chrysler, helping the Nazi's and in the process making money is fundamentally evil and wrong.
Now, ask yourself this, if you lived under The Nazi regime back then would you consider those that are arms makers (to help make killing of humans more efficient) and computer makers (to make keeping track of all the dead bodies more efficient and to make the trains to the concentration camps run more efficiently) evil?
Your deeds make you evil, and by assisting those that are evil, such as those that would censor Information and use it to abuse the populace which is what the Chinese are doing (I take it you're all familiar with the Brutality inflicted upon "Political Dissidents"), you yourself become evil.
All Corporations that assist such iniquitous behavior should be held accountable for their deeds.
Google is partially blocked in China (Score:2, Interesting)
This can be quite annoying, particuliarly when a site is down or I don't want to load a
Re:rephrase (Score:1, Interesting)
Please explain. I was led to beleve Arco was the most politically correct gas brand (more delivered by pipeline than by supertanker so less chance for oil spils, etc).
You think were not censored? (Score:1, Interesting)
This being said I dont think Google is at fault here, other that being a large and evil corporation but that is a different matter. I mean Google is just a search engine. But I take comfort in the fact that the censors will never win, as they have already lost, and only a better idea can beat a good idea.
This is nothing new (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.01/google