Microsoft Will Sell Whitelist Services For Hotmail 380
Ec|ipse writes "Looks like Microsoft has found another way to make money, this time from spam. Microsoft has adopted a "whitelist" program (Bonded Sender by IronPort) which will allow marketers to pay Microsoft so that they are included on a special whitelist, guaranteeing uninteruptable delivery of their messages to Hotmail and MSN users. You can catch the full article at Excite. I especially like the nice naming for spammers, calling them 'marketers' sounds so much more legitimate."
mgibbs adds "Hopefully the $20K fine that results from abuse of this system is enough to deter spammers."
This is a BOND, not a payment (Score:5, Informative)
In Denmark it is illegal to send spam! (Score:4, Informative)
So unless you check the checkbox somewhere in your hotmail registration, you will be able to sue MS - in Denmark at least...
personal experience (Score:5, Informative)
Re:why using hotmail? (Score:4, Informative)
MS isn't sellling anything, they are buying (Score:5, Informative)
MicroSoft isn't selling anything, they are using the services of another company, namely bondedsender.com.
Who are bondedsender? They are part of ironport systems, who also own spamcop.net. Spam reported to spamcop.net automatically gets reported to bondedsender.com and the spammer gets whacked.
This is really good news because spamcop.net/ironport were recently sued by the spammer snotty scott richter. This means that ironport will have more income to not only fight the spam lawsuit but fight spam in general.
Re:In Denmark it is illegal to send spam! (Score:2, Informative)
AFAIK in the U.S. the opposite, namely the opt-out principle is in use, where, after having received unsolicited marketing stuff, you have to inform the sender that you don't want it. Rather inviting...
Re:But that makes Usenet less useful (Score:2, Informative)
Re:This is a BOND, to IRONPORT (Score:5, Informative)
IronPort [ironport.com] is NOT Microsoft [microsoft.com]! IronPort is selling a service which Microsoft has purchased for the purpose of using on Microsoft's Hotmail (and MSN) mail service.
MS does NOT get the money (Score:3, Informative)
Not how it works (Score:5, Informative)
Better site... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Do any journalists know how to use english? (Score:1, Informative)
run the gantlet.
Gauntlets are pieces of armor for the hands. See here [brainydictionary.com] and here [brainydictionary.com].
SpamAssassin also has commercial whitelists (Score:4, Informative)
READ THE FUCKING ARTICLE (Score:5, Informative)
For those too st00pid to read it, here's your list of clues. Microsoft gets no money, IronPort gets the money.
If you're a legitimate emailer (i.e. you email to people who have asked for email) IronPort takes the $20K up front as a bond. If you spam, you get knocked off the whitelist and they take your $20K.
It's not "pay $20K and spam all you want". It's "put up $20K to say that you won't spam".
As someone else here said, their standards are *very* high. You must have no more than 1 complaint per million emails, which is a very low number. Having run double-opt-in lists myself before, I assure you that cluefucks will complain about something that they signed up for (and confirmed) the day before.
As an ISP, let me say that this is a great program.
They are very anal
Re:why using hotmail? (Score:1, Informative)
LINK [msn.com]
Re:It's also a list to avoid! (Score:4, Informative)
I believe the intention of the whitelist is for companies like airlines, Fedex, etc to send legitimate email notifications to their customers without having to worry about SpamAssassin throwing their email in the trash.
Presumably there is some sort of due diligence that is done before bonded status is granted so that any ol' spammer can't just pony up $20k and get on the list. One thing is for sure -- they wouldn't stay on that list if they are found to be spamming.
Re:This is a BOND, to IRONPORT (Score:3, Informative)
JACK SMITH: CO-FOUNDER AND INVENTOR, HOTMAIL CORPORATION
"...After the acquisition, Smith worked as Director of Engineering at Microsoft...then leading a team developing next generation Internet software infrastructure."
DOUGLAS C. CARLISLE: MANAGING DIRECTOR, MENLO VENTURES
Former board memeber of Hotmail.
SCOTT BANISTER: CHIEF TECHNOLOGY OFFICER
"Scott started his career as a pioneer in the email business. He was founder and VP Technology of ListBot...ListBot was acquired and became Microsoft's ListBuilderTM, part of the bCentralTM suite of business offerings..."
SCOTT WEISS: CEO
"...Scott was one of the early team members at Hotmail, the world's largest web-based email service. At Hotmail, Scott was responsible for all partnership and revenue generating business development efforts. It was this experience at Hotmail that helped Scott identify the emerging business opportunity that would later evolve into IronPort Systems. After Hotmail's acquisition by Microsoft, Scott led a business development team at Microsoft with the MSN division. "
No, they're not Microsoft. But they're dang close.
This isn't as bad as the 'Article' says, but... (Score:5, Informative)
I must say I'm really disappointed in this. Ironport have generally been good guys, but their trust level just plumetted. If you read the sender standards [bondedsender.com] page you'll notice that, while they are at least trying to rule out some of the worst spam, their standards explicitly do allow spam (by diluting the concept of 'consent' to the point it's unverifiable and thus meaningless.) On the other hand, it doesn't sound like they're going to try to adjudicate complaints, just charge a small fee for each one and make judgements based on the sheer number of complaints, so it will be interesting to see how that works out. If enough end-users refuse to tolerate spam, that could effectively keep it out of the whitelist, even though the 'standards' are written to allow it.
Re:It's also a list to avoid! (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, they play both sides [ironport.com] of the fence.
Re:This isn't as bad as the 'Article' says, but... (Score:3, Informative)
IronPort's bonded-sender [bondedsender.com] service investigations are based on SpamCop. (There are a large number of SpamCop auto-SPAM-reporting products and servers). Basically, if you SPAM chances are you'll be reported to SpamCOP at a higher hit rate than your 'victims' are likely to respond to your "campaign".
Re:Second side to this coin... (Score:4, Informative)
header RCVD_IN_BONDEDSENDER eval:check_rbl('relay', 'sa.bondedsender.org.')
describe RCVD_IN_BONDEDSENDER Received via a whitelisted Bonded Sender address
score RCVD_IN_BONDEDSENDER +100.000
should work for SpamAssassin 2.2x/2.3x
The +100.000 should ensure they get marked as spam.
Re:It all makes perfect sense now. (Score:5, Informative)
They're talking $20 per complaint, after your "free" complaints per month. Which, for the "low" volumne bulk sender( less than 1,000,000 per month), is 1 complaint per month.
So, for the above example, 10 complains - 1 free complaint * $20 is $180. The sign up costs are $375 Application, $500 license, $500 bond.
So after your first month, you've spent $875, bonded $500, e-mailed 500,000 messages, and lost $180.
And somewhere else, I thought read that if your bond drops below half, you have to replace it. So they've effectively created a charge system for spam.
This would be quite nice if they donated some of the bond money to, say, the SpamAssassin Development Team [spamassassin.org], or maybe SourceForge.
Re:This is a BOND, not a payment (Score:2, Informative)
Marketing isn't inherently bad. It is in many ways the only way to know about new products. Word of mouth is great, but at some point somebody has to be told of a product's existance or there'll be nobody to spread the word in the first place.
You say if you want to buy something, you'll go out and get it. Fair enough. But I'm not fucking psychic. I don't immediately know when a company releases a new product that I might want. Most of the catalogs I read feature items that aren't reviewed in trade magazines. If I want to buy a cal-look running board for a 1973 Super Beetle, what recourse do I have BESIDES catalogs? Before I started getting VW Trends, I thought I'd have to go to junkyards with my fingers crossed if I wanted to find anything for my restoration! Through catalogs, I've found sources and options that have made the restoration much easier, much cheaper, and much nicer looking.
And I'd much rather read a catalog than visit a store, mostly because the nearest air cooled VW retailer is in Niagara Falls, but partially because I appreciate the luxury of being able to weigh features and price without a salesman breathing down my neck.
Re:Second side to this coin... (Score:4, Informative)
Re: READ THE FUCKING PAGE (Score:1, Informative)
Snipped from http://www.bondedsender.com/fees.jsp , so you don't tucker yourselves out having to read a bunch of words...
The hole Ironport wants you to install (Score:5, Informative)
describe RCVD_IN_BONDEDSENDER Received via a whitelisted Bonded Sender address
score RCVD_IN_BONDEDSENDER -100.000
Note that "-100.000". That says "accept this, even if it looks like spam". You might want to use, say, "-3.0" instead. Give them a little credit, but don't open the floodgates.
Watch for spam with the "RCVD_IN_BONDEDSENDER" flag in the X-Spam-Status header line. You might want to have Mozilla (I assume Slashdot readers aren't using Outlook) move such messages into a "Bonded Sender" folder. That lets you watch what they're sending.
As soon as you find a real spam passed by BondedSender, please post it to NANAE.
Re:It's also a list to avoid! (Score:3, Informative)
What does the Hormel product have to do with unsolicited commercial email?
The upper case version of the word is trademarked by Hormel, and is acceptable for breakfast (depending on personal taste). The lower case version of the word refers to unsolicited commercial email and is acceptable for hunting someone down and kicking their ass when they send pictures of hot asian teenagers having sex with men who have enhanced their s1ze and are taking \/1c0d1n and v1@gr4 they bought in an online f4rmecy to your 11 year old kid.
My Prediction... (Score:2, Informative)
Having been landed in court for antitrust violations and with their software needing updates every week, Microsoft are really looking bad, and people are really looking for an alternative.
With MacOS and Linux getting updated so much faster, the software Giant and Monopolist will need to act quick if it wants to stand any chance of making it through the to the next decade.
I thought Microsoft already sold their email list. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not how it works (Score:3, Informative)
IronPort cannot guarantee anything about mail delivery to the people who post bonds in order to be listed in the DNS whitelist. They can only assure the people using the DNS whitelist, that all the entries on that whitelist represent email marketers that adhere to BondedSender requirements. They cannot make end users of the whitelist agree that those requirements merit allowing emails through the spam filter. They cannot make end users of the whitelist agree to anything, since it's free and open in the DNS for everyone to use as they see fit. There are no "registered users" to which BondedSenders mail send mail.
If users complain, the amount of bond posted by the email marketer is deducted by $20 for each complaint (past the threshhold, which is currently 1 complaint per million emails).