An anonymous reader writes "Beginning yesterday morning, law enforcement from 10 countries and the United States conducted over 120 searches worldwide to dismantle some of the most well-known and prolific online piracy organizations.
Among the groups targeted by Operation Fastlink are well-known organizations such as Fairlight, Kalisto, Echelon, Class and Project X, all of which specialized in pirating computer games, and music release groups such as APC. The enforcement action announced today is expected to dismantle many of these international warez syndicates and significantly impact the illicit operations of others."
We don't have the right to distribute pirated works online, but do we seriously expect this right in the future? Is anyone SERIOUSLY arguing for the right to disseminate the creations of other people for free?
I know that you can reply with "sales aren't being lost" and "information wants to be free", but we will not have the "rights" being exercised by warez groups until some serious social upheaval occurs. The public may be behind such arguments with respect to music, but I doubt you're going to see your grandmother downloading AutoCAD 2004 and being surprised (or upset) that it is illegal to do so given the opportunity.
That's why I don't think it's even worth examining this issue under "Your Rights Online". Maybe put it in a Black hat/Internet Lawbreakers category, but don't pollute the actual fight for internet rights (privacy, universal access, social justice, etc)
its nice that you make the government out to be the bad guys here, but I'm a game developer and I'd really like to stay in business thank you. With piracy so rampant, game developers NEVER see royalties and its harder and harder to scrape togeother enough cash to make a good game nowadays.
Its up to you. Buy games and support the govenment in actions like this and have a healthy game biz, or pirate away and watch all the best developers go under.
With piracy so rampant, game developers NEVER see royalties
I call bullshit!
I would accept, "With piracy becoming more and more rampant, in future, game developers may not see royalties for their work," but what you said is complete and utter hogwash.
It's not unlike the RIAA blaming most of their problems on piracy. Yes, piracy does affect many companies bottom lines, but blaming it for your not getting paid a few bucks extra is just moronic. Tell me... are you saying what your publisher is telling you? ie "Sorry, there will be no Christmas this year because too many people pirated the game and we can't afford to pay you."
If you believe that or anything similar then you do not understand the economics of 'piracy' very well.
I cannot speak for anyone else, but I admit it, the number of music CD's and computer games I have purchased over the last few years is negligible. Not because of piracy, not because of P2P or 'borrowing copies'... but because I have not been able to afford much of what is out there, and of what there is, very very little of it I have felt was worth my hard earned dollar.
I'm sorry for not supporting your delusional world by buying your product. I just can't afford to these days.
>> My credits include games that have sold 50K and games that have sold 5M+. Piracy didn't cause the 50K flop, lameness did. Piracy didn't prevent the 5M+ blockbuster. >> Quick using swappers as a crutch for your own shortcomings.
That's just a really bad attitude, arrogant in fact. Not everyone can make million dollar games, yet everyone deserves fair slice of the cake for what they have created, even if it is small.
An independent developer may make just a small amount of money, but that may be just enough to try and produce the next game - which may well be a blockbuster. You seem to suggest that if you can't make the big league, then tough.
If the guy produced a lame product, or used lame marketing: then at least he knows that he failed because of what he did, not because someone avoided paying, but enjoyed the pleasure of playing.
Wow, whether it is people selling pipes that might be used to smoke marijuana, or kiddiez running "FTP my w4r3z!!!!" sites, Ashcroft won't back down from a hard fight.
Ashcroft doesn't dance, smoke or drink. I think he has too much time on his hands.
You know, a lot of people here seem to be saying what you said, and to a degree, that's true.
However, if the government keeps sending these groups to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison, that's going to stop or at least trickle off at some point. We're not exactly talking about the Mafia here. If a continual crackdown occurs to the point where if you put pirated software out for distribution you have a high likelyhood of being passed around a cell block to earn cigarettes for someone much bigger than you are, it's going to seem like a much less attractive activity to most sane people.
Right now that's probably not happening, but if there was a real threat of law enforcement getting involved... shit, most geeks are afraid of girls. You don't think they're going to be even more afraid of lonely, burly men?
Well, since The Humble Guys are still alive and well, and were big even back when I was wee lad, I don't see any big impacts. The chiense stores in china town, still sell cheap re-printed DVD's, and I can still buy bootlegged smokes down at the local diner, I don't see how this is going to effect anything.
Come to think of it, isn't Razor 1911, and a few other "big players" still in the game? I guess they are "un-touchables"... Piracy might be seriously diminished one day, but it won't happen until the NWO anyways..
by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday April 22 2004, @02:36PM (#8942360)
Whatever you say, this is "big" Seriously "big" Every single major "elite" warez site in the netherlands is gone. FairLighT are gone, for those of you who don't know FairLighT ( FLT ) they're one of the two main game releasing warez groups. People within the scene are scared, this is a bad day for warez. Also, this is the US Governments doing, up untill today the.nl boys though they were safe from the law, but looks like the US has done a bit of leaning..
I've gotta agree with all the people pointing out that this should not be in YRO, and I'm glad to see that this community has a decent percentage of people who agree this is the right response from the FBI. For the rest of you, what's it going to take to make you people happy?
Step 1: They tried busting people like Ed Felten for talking about piracy tools. This was genuinely evil, and we bitched, saying "they should only go after the pirates, not people talking about tools that might be used for piracy."
Step 2: They started busting the pirates themselves. They handled it in a fairly Snidely Whiplash sort of way, but it is definitely within the bounds of the spirit of the law. And you all bitched, saying, "these are just home users, the real problem is the piracy rings."
Step 3: The crack a bunch of piracy rings. This is totally in line with the spirit and proper use of copyright. If some company were doing something similar with GPL software, we'd go after them and we would win. Please try to retain what remains of your credibility - don't bitch when organized, premeditative law breakers get their comeuppance.
Step 4: They give up, copyright is drastically reformed, and a new economic model emerges based around funding the fundamentally scarce act of creation itself (rather than attempting to enforce the artificial scarcity that almost nobody respects (especially once media was separated from scarce medium)).
"Software piracy laws are so practically unenforceable and breaking them has become so socially acceptable that only a thin minority appears compelled...to obey them.... Whenever there is such profound divergence between the law and social practice, it is not society that adapts."
-- John Perry Barlow (the eff.org dude) [rand.org]
Okay, I'm seeing a lot of people railing (once again) against the government for enforcing the law. If this operation was targeted at the people downloading the pirated software and music, I'd be joining in - that's a huge waste.
But the government action is against those that are producing the cracked software and providing the music for download. These aren't your typical kids playing at sharing music. These are people who know exactly what they are doing, and, while they have a myriad of reasons for doing so (some even mildly admirable), they ARE breaking the law.
So I'm reading this, well, garbage that people are posting about honor among pirates. Well, whatever. I'm sure that's true for some segment of that population. But who gives a damn? Who are these people really benefiting? Is this REALLY a valid way to protest the pricing structures and horrible crap that these companies are producing? And even if it is, these people, again, are aware the the consequences of this type of protest, and I feel no need to get worked up about it.
I guess my point is - I'm GLAD that my government actually attempts to enforce the law. I wish they did a better job, which includes knowing how and when to enforce the law. At least this time they got it right, for once. 'Course, that's assuming that the press release is even reasonably accurate.
You know why I use those cracks ? To crack my own game, that i legally bought for 40+$. Why do I do that ? Because I usually play more than 1 game at a time, and I have only one CD. You know what happen ? Every freaking game is asking to see its own CD in the drive. Result : early break down because you opnen and close so much the CD door. Personally I think those guy were sparing me the money, that game developper/distrubutor make me lose on hardware early retirement. I guess I will have to search for those crack a bit more "deeper" now. But I will certainly not give up on the possibility of not having to play CD-Toaster wioth what i legally bought.
Exactly what's the limit on a FreeS/WAN box acting as an IPSec VPN concentrator? Anything? Other than system resources?
128bit encryption end to end. I'm suprised this isn't being done already. Granted, no HTTP Leeching or anonymous ftp (perhaps pre-shared keys?) until you're on the private network...
by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday April 22 2004, @02:35PM (#8942337)
My OpenBSD boxes scream with a cheap (~$89 IIRC) Soekris cryptographic accelerator. The CPU barely gets used while the HiFn chip on the card does all the bullwork.
The big record companies and our own legislature have pirated our rights to free speech. I'll concede that it's worth compromising free speech by granting exclusive copy rights to writers/performers so that there will be an incentive for people to create. But those rights should only be short term. The founding fathers stated something like 14 years with a one-time 14 year extension. Things happen *much* faster now, so those terms should be shorter, not longer.
When they stop infringing my rights, I'll start caring about theirs.
For pointing out that there's a huge overseas mp3 server illegally serving 12.8 gigs of mp3's in Iraq [dmusic.com] that Ashcroft should take down immediately - probably run by Evil Doers!
You have to wonder if the civilian contractors they're using to hunt these people down have community mp3 servers at work. If so, what do they listen to? Wagner?
While I do partake in less then legal software at times and benefit from such groups as those being cracked down upon, even I must admit that the government isn't overstepping its bounds or bowing to thier "corporate masters." Whether they are a "syndicate" or not, these online groups are violating the law and have no right to do so. Software and recording companies do put a lot of work into thier product and do have the right to charge whatever they want for them. If you do not like it, I see that you have the following options:
1)Don't buy it. If nobody buys a product at a given price, the company will lower it or go out of business.
2)Create your own competing product at a price you deam resonable.
3)Vote to remove the legal protections that you bash the government for enforcing as is thier duty.
Some of you techno-toads need to get your head out of the web and realize that technology isnt the solution to EVERYTHING.. Not only does john law have the capability of breaking a lot of VPN's, but he doesnt really need to.
these guys storm offices and houses, they pull you from your keyboard before you can lock it out, they have "agents" work the chat networks and so on, becoming "friends" and insiders of these "syndicates".
Its very difficult to carry on this type of illegal activity through a structured or organized manner against the deep deep deep resources of both the sowftare industry and the goverment. The only way to battle them is for hugely distributed and un-localized distribution....
basicly P2P... now P2P with strong encryption and trace-blocking, along with various other privacy protections distributed across enough users is a much more difficult thing to kill. These pirate groups are asking for trouble by making themselves targets.
Some of you techno-toads need to get your head out of the web and realize that technology isnt the solution to EVERYTHING.. Not only does john law have the capability of breaking a lot of VPN's, but he doesnt really need to.
john law needs a supercomputer and a lot of time to break even 128-bit encryption. It's not worth his time to do this. He can't just push the button that says "I'm a cop" and start eavesdropping.
these guys storm offices and houses, they pull you from your keyboard before you can lock it out, they have "agents" work the chat networks and so on, becoming "friends" and insiders of these "syndicates".
Sure...but how are they going to get a warrant to walk into your house if all your connections are encrypted? Reasonable suspicion won't get you a warrant these days, you need probable cause. Probable cause that you're not going to get from an encrypted connection.
Again, I speak for those of us in the US. I'm sure it's much different elsewhere.
syndicates: n An association of people or firms authorized to undertake a duty or transact specific business.
An association of people or firms formed to engage in an enterprise or promote a common interest.
A loose affiliation of gangsters in control of organized criminal activities.
An agency that sells articles, features, or photographs for publication in a number of newspapers or periodicals simultaneously.
A company consisting of a number of separate newspapers; a newspaper chain.
The office, position, or jurisdiction of a syndic or body of syndics.
So yes the term is used correctly. As far as the rest of your post, are you somehow implying that these groups have done no wrong? Copyright is a matter of Law so I fail to see how having law enforcement deal with it is "The feds are just taking care of their corporate masters."
These people were breaking the law, they knew it, and they got what was coming to them. Don't make it sound like they are some sort of folk hero 'sticking it to the man' when they're nothing but petty little criminals.
Regardless of the semantics, syndicate is a word with a connotation of organized crime in the order of the Mafia or Yakuza. It holds a heavily biased meaning to the average person, and it's use does indicate disdain for group it describes. Every word in every press release is carefully chosen to cast a good or bad light on the given subject. You would be extraordinarily naive to think otherwise.
Break the law because it's wrong, suffer the punishment because it's right, and work to change the system.
It's acceptable to challenge any law you want, but it also means as a responsible individual you also pay the consequences of that law. If everyone breaks the same law, willingly, because the law is wrong, that brings the attention of the lawmakers that the law is wrong, because everyone would be their constituents and voters.
There must be another step to this process, because a huge number of people have been arrested and punished for possessing marijuana for years now, and there are lobbyists, *and* polls indicate that the vast majority of US citizens don't think it should be illegal, and yet... nothing. States have even spoken up advocating the medical use of marijuana, but apparently even that isn't enough.
A.) Participate in piracy, so this pisses you off. B.) Have a beef against Ashcroft, so it just ruffles your panties to see him cracking down on illegal software piracy.
There is absolutely, 100% nothing wrong with the government cracking down on this. Slashdot wants to pretend it's some sort of miniscule, "gray area" problem, but it's millions of users all trading warez and making it harder to sell software.
Why the hell do you think PC sales are so low, and so game companies are turning to consoles? Don't give me the "games were better in the olden days" spin, because we've got everything from Far Cry to Invisible War to SimCity 4 to Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 to...you get the picture.
"Copyright Enforcement Militia"...this is such propaganda bullshit that I can't believe--no wait, I CAN believe it got modded up. A post bitching about the emotive use of the word "syndicate" yet emotively using "militia." Nice!
Let's all pirate the fuck out of Doom 3, shall we? I'm sure John Carmack won't mind. Will he?
The only "impact" will be "we have to start using VPNs, boys!"
"They" already use SILC for internal communcations and TLS FXP for file transfers. Doesn't help when one of their oh-so-nice newly recruited 100mbit site is operated by the FBI, does it? Even if the people doing the transfers are behind a forest of bouncers and shell accounts, a "compromised" site logs all the IPs FXP transfers are done to and from. Afair, that was exactly what they did before Operation Buccaneer, bringing down "Drink or Die" ao.
So who is the United States serving? It can't be the citizens of its country, since the writeup indicates that the US no longer counts as a country: "enforcement from 10 countries and the United States...".
"The feds are just taking care of their corporate masters, that's all.
You mean, serving the citizens of their countries, who are trying to make money by selling software? You mean, enforcing the law?
How dare they! It would make much more sense for them to start working for the software pirates.::rolls eyes:: "
I believe that the parent thinks there are higher priority criminals to hunt than a few losers who pirate mediocre games. Victimless crimes and white collar crimes should never take precidence and resources from the prosecution of violent crimes.
It should be a matter of triage, first make society safe, then worry about maintaing private industry's profit margins against the gangs of computer toting outlaw teenagers.
However, the victims of muggings, spousal abuse, drug related violence and gangsta drive-by shootings do not make the hefty campaign contributions, nor do they have the ability to make press and TV conferences. They are just the average tax-payers - you know - the ones the Law Enforcement Officers swore to serve, protect, and defend.
If the US government were actually serving its citizens, instead of messing around with kids who pirate video games, they would punish convicted monopolists instead of letting them go free*. The point is that the government doesnt decide who to go after based on things like real damage or danger - they base decisions based on where the money is. In this case, the money is in the software companies so law enforcement works for them right now, not the average american citizen, who will not see any real benefit from busting video game pirates.
Before you reply or moderate, ask yourself a few questions. Who benefits from busting Video Game pirates? If you think American citizens will, do you think they will benefit from cheaper game prices? Or maybe we'll get better games now that the pirates are all shut down? Or do you really think that as corporate profits go up, wages will, too, and that everyone benefits from helping the corporation? (in reality, the only people who benefit are the shareholders, who pay the lobbyists to wine & dine the legislators)
*Consider this: is there a way that Microsoft could be punished that would reduce computer prices and maybe even stimulate the computer industry, and the software industry as well? I think someone could probably come up with such a solution, and that it would be a far more effective use of gov't time & money than chasing warez kiddies.
There is no solution. We just muddle along the best we can and as far as I can tell, capitalism seems to give the most people the most opportunity to make their lives into whatever it is they want.
Unfortunately, some people still get screwed. See line #1.
capitalism seems to give the most people the most opportunity to make their lives into whatever it is they want.
Don't forget the part about placing value judgements on people based upon how much, or little, they made for themselves. It might look wide and free, like the sea, but there is a very fixed path to follow; freedom isn't real if all options but one have negative consequences attached.
The difference between you and a corporation is that your sole purpose is not to make money. A corporation exists only to make money. If they give away free medicine to kids, it's to improve their image so they can make money. If killing 8,000 people in Bhopal will make them money, you better hope you don't live in Bhopal. Making money is the purpose of a corporation.
I think that part of what's needling you is that corporations are being granted some of the rights that individuals enjoy, yet they exist only to make money are not subject to the same constraints that individuals are. You can't throw a corporation in jail for murdering someone. You can throw the CEO in jail if he screws up badly enough, but it's a little tougher when you remember that corporations were created for the sole purpose of distancing corporate decision makers from the consequences of their actions. Also, a distributed decision-making process and distributed accountability reduces each individual employee's share of the guilt to the kind of manageable level that allows for some really spectacularly bad shit to happen.
A lot of people who otherwise believe in laissez faire and the free-market are troubled by the zaibatsu-style mega corporations because they have grown large enough and influential enough to circumvent many of the normal free-market checks and balances.
The Dalai Llama ... I am not an economist, but watching increasingly smaller numbers of people control increasingly larger numbers of increasingly limited shared resources is making me increasingly worried...
And yet... don't the owners of intellectual property rights -- such as Linus Torvalds -- have the right to expect sufficient attention to be paid to their own law enforcement needs?
If the Linux kernel got hijacked and put into, say, some other Well Known OS illegally, can you tell me that nobody around here would making any "John Ashcroft should drop the hammer on these guys" remarks?
I don't doubt that some favors exchanged hands to get this kind of attention marked as a priority at Ashcroft's level. But keep in mind that the same law that works for them works for everyone else too, no matter how lop-sided it may seem sometimes.
The BBS(Cyberspace BBS) I frequented here in the Grand Rapids area has always been (and still is) very careful about only allowing shareware and freeware software into the file libraries people can download from.
The original owner's wife's ex-husband called the FBI and told them Cyber had pirated software and child pornography available for download. So the FBI raided. AFAIK, they didn't damage anything, and left once it was demonstrated that the file libraries were clean.
I certianly have the RIGHT to have the crack and keygen to any software I legally own.
in fact it's the first thing I download after buying it. so I know that in 4 years I can still use that which i OWN. Games or apps that need Key's and/or authorize to a master server are crappy to the user. and the first thing I do is remove that crud so I am ensured that my legal purchase cant be stolen from me by the corrupt developers or companies that think that I no longer have the right to use an app that I bought 5 years ago...
Yes I'm one of those evil people that buy something that works and stay's there. Lightwave 5.5 instead of being a lemming and buying the upgrade every year (Yes I'm evil and making programmer's babies starve!) and Yes I have my dongle and origional manuals. I also have all the keygens and cracks for it... which were NEEDED to make it work under windows 2000 and XP.
so you know what, screw off. there are LOTS of legit uses for cracks and keygens. and I reccomwend and point EVERYONE I know to the sites to get their keygens and cracks for their legal software..
if you are a developer and add that crap to your app, then you suck and I really hope I piss you off to no end.
wallpaper bubbles... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:wallpaper bubbles... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
How is this YRO? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How is this YRO? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Now, that's comedy (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Now, that's comedy (Score:5, Insightful)
We don't have the right to distribute pirated works online, but do we seriously expect this right in the future? Is anyone SERIOUSLY arguing for the right to disseminate the creations of other people for free?
I know that you can reply with "sales aren't being lost" and "information wants to be free", but we will not have the "rights" being exercised by warez groups until some serious social upheaval occurs. The public may be behind such arguments with respect to music, but I doubt you're going to see your grandmother downloading AutoCAD 2004 and being surprised (or upset) that it is illegal to do so given the opportunity.
That's why I don't think it's even worth examining this issue under "Your Rights Online". Maybe put it in a Black hat/Internet Lawbreakers category, but don't pollute the actual fight for internet rights (privacy, universal access, social justice, etc)
Parent
So is this tied to the earlier story.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh no! (Score:5, Funny)
or from the developers perspective. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:or from the developers perspective. (Score:5, Insightful)
I call bullshit!
I would accept, "With piracy becoming more and more rampant, in future, game developers may not see royalties for their work," but what you said is complete and utter hogwash.
It's not unlike the RIAA blaming most of their problems on piracy. Yes, piracy does affect many companies bottom lines, but blaming it for your not getting paid a few bucks extra is just moronic. Tell me... are you saying what your publisher is telling you? ie "Sorry, there will be no Christmas this year because too many people pirated the game and we can't afford to pay you."
If you believe that or anything similar then you do not understand the economics of 'piracy' very well.
I cannot speak for anyone else, but I admit it, the number of music CD's and computer games I have purchased over the last few years is negligible. Not because of piracy, not because of P2P or 'borrowing copies'... but because I have not been able to afford much of what is out there, and of what there is, very very little of it I have felt was worth my hard earned dollar.
I'm sorry for not supporting your delusional world by buying your product. I just can't afford to these days.
Parent
Re:or from the developers perspective. (Score:5, Insightful)
>> Quick using swappers as a crutch for your own shortcomings.
That's just a really bad attitude, arrogant in fact. Not everyone can make million dollar games, yet everyone deserves fair slice of the cake for what they have created, even if it is small.
An independent developer may make just a small amount of money, but that may be just enough to try and produce the next game - which may well be a blockbuster. You seem to suggest that if you can't make the big league, then tough.
If the guy produced a lame product, or used lame marketing: then at least he knows that he failed because of what he did, not because someone avoided paying, but enjoyed the pleasure of playing
Parent
The Heroic Ashcroft (Score:5, Funny)
Ashcroft doesn't dance, smoke or drink. I think he has too much time on his hands.
ugh (Score:5, Funny)
Wack-A-Mole (Score:5, Insightful)
MY GOD (Score:5, Funny)
The other side... (Score:5, Interesting)
However, if the government keeps sending these groups to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison, that's going to stop or at least trickle off at some point. We're not exactly talking about the Mafia here. If a continual crackdown occurs to the point where if you put pirated software out for distribution you have a high likelyhood of being passed around a cell block to earn cigarettes for someone much bigger than you are, it's going to seem like a much less attractive activity to most sane people.
Right now that's probably not happening, but if there was a real threat of law enforcement getting involved... shit, most geeks are afraid of girls. You don't think they're going to be even more afraid of lonely, burly men?
Parent
THG still alive and well. (Score:5, Insightful)
Come to think of it, isn't Razor 1911, and a few other "big players" still in the game? I guess they are "un-touchables"... Piracy might be seriously diminished one day, but it won't happen until the NWO anyways..
Quake III (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.narvakitchens.com/quake3cdkey.jpg
This is big. (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously "big"
Every single major "elite" warez site in the netherlands is gone.
FairLighT are gone, for those of you who don't know FairLighT ( FLT ) they're one of the two main game releasing warez groups. People within the scene are scared, this is a bad day for warez.
Also, this is the US Governments doing, up untill today the
The Right Enforcement (Score:5, Insightful)
Step 1: They tried busting people like Ed Felten for talking about piracy tools. This was genuinely evil, and we bitched, saying "they should only go after the pirates, not people talking about tools that might be used for piracy."
Step 2: They started busting the pirates themselves. They handled it in a fairly Snidely Whiplash sort of way, but it is definitely within the bounds of the spirit of the law. And you all bitched, saying, "these are just home users, the real problem is the piracy rings."
Step 3: The crack a bunch of piracy rings. This is totally in line with the spirit and proper use of copyright. If some company were doing something similar with GPL software, we'd go after them and we would win. Please try to retain what remains of your credibility - don't bitch when organized, premeditative law breakers get their comeuppance.
Re:The Right Enforcement (Score:5, Interesting)
--
Parent
w/o Warez where would we be? (Score:5, Funny)
10 year old geek (probably YOU):
Mom, can I have $120,000 so I can
learn autocad and 3d studio and
visual basic and oracle and....?
Mom: No that's too expensive dear
How long before we can afford it?
Mom: after we win the lottery maybe.
You call that an appropriate reaction? (Score:5, Insightful)
But the government action is against those that are producing the cracked software and providing the music for download. These aren't your typical kids playing at sharing music. These are people who know exactly what they are doing, and, while they have a myriad of reasons for doing so (some even mildly admirable), they ARE breaking the law.
So I'm reading this, well, garbage that people are posting about honor among pirates. Well, whatever. I'm sure that's true for some segment of that population. But who gives a damn? Who are these people really benefiting? Is this REALLY a valid way to protest the pricing structures and horrible crap that these companies are producing? And even if it is, these people, again, are aware the the consequences of this type of protest, and I feel no need to get worked up about it.
I guess my point is - I'm GLAD that my government actually attempts to enforce the law. I wish they did a better job, which includes knowing how and when to enforce the law. At least this time they got it right, for once. 'Course, that's assuming that the press release is even reasonably accurate.
That is funy... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Call them "Evil Doers" next... (Score:5, Funny)
Christ most of those warez servers are slow enough as is...
Parent
Re:Call them "Evil Doers" next... (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly what's the limit on a FreeS/WAN box acting as an IPSec VPN concentrator? Anything? Other than system resources?
128bit encryption end to end. I'm suprised this isn't being done already. Granted, no HTTP Leeching or anonymous ftp (perhaps pre-shared keys?) until you're on the private network...
Parent
Re:Call them "Evil Doers" next... (Score:5, Interesting)
My OpenBSD boxes scream with a cheap (~$89 IIRC) Soekris cryptographic accelerator. The CPU barely gets used while the HiFn chip on the card does all the bullwork.
Near line speed crypto. Ahhhh..
Parent
Re:Call them "Evil Doers" next... (Score:5, Funny)
What do you mean? An African or European box?
(Sorry, could't resist responding to the cadence of your question!)
Parent
Re:Song of the piracy apologist (Score:5, Interesting)
How about
(0) The use of the term "piracy" the the alleged entertainment industry to descibe the free distribution the items they sell is spurious bullshit.
Anything can be made a crime if you pay some group to pass a law to make it one [see also: marijuana laws];
Grow up you punk-ass media whore.
"Stamp out crime; change the Law."
Parent
Re:Song of the piracy apologist (Score:5, Interesting)
When they stop infringing my rights, I'll start caring about theirs.
Parent
I'm going to get moderated "Troll" again (Score:5, Interesting)
You have to wonder if the civilian contractors they're using to hunt these people down have community mp3 servers at work. If so, what do they listen to? Wagner?
Parent
Re:Call them "Evil Doers" next... (Score:5, Insightful)
1)Don't buy it. If nobody buys a product at a given price, the company will lower it or go out of business.
2)Create your own competing product at a price you deam resonable.
3)Vote to remove the legal protections that you bash the government for enforcing as is thier duty.
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VPN's wont do anything to stop the law (Score:5, Insightful)
Some of you techno-toads need to get your head out of the web and realize that technology isnt the solution to EVERYTHING.. Not only does john law have the capability of breaking a lot of VPN's, but he doesnt really need to.
these guys storm offices and houses, they pull you from your keyboard before you can lock it out, they have "agents" work the chat networks and so on, becoming "friends" and insiders of these "syndicates".
Its very difficult to carry on this type of illegal activity through a structured or organized manner against the deep deep deep resources of both the sowftare industry and the goverment. The only way to battle them is for hugely distributed and un-localized distribution....
basicly P2P... now P2P with strong encryption and trace-blocking, along with various other privacy protections distributed across enough users is a much more difficult thing to kill. These pirate groups are asking for trouble by making themselves targets.
Parent
Re:VPN's wont do anything to stop the law (Score:5, Interesting)
john law needs a supercomputer and a lot of time to break even 128-bit encryption. It's not worth his time to do this. He can't just push the button that says "I'm a cop" and start eavesdropping.
these guys storm offices and houses, they pull you from your keyboard before you can lock it out, they have "agents" work the chat networks and so on, becoming "friends" and insiders of these "syndicates".
Sure...but how are they going to get a warrant to walk into your house if all your connections are encrypted? Reasonable suspicion won't get you a warrant these days, you need probable cause. Probable cause that you're not going to get from an encrypted connection.
Again, I speak for those of us in the US. I'm sure it's much different elsewhere.
Parent
Re:Call them "Evil Doers" next... (Score:5, Insightful)
An association of people or firms authorized to undertake a duty or transact specific business.
An association of people or firms formed to engage in an enterprise or promote a common interest.
A loose affiliation of gangsters in control of organized criminal activities.
An agency that sells articles, features, or photographs for publication in a number of newspapers or periodicals simultaneously.
A company consisting of a number of separate newspapers; a newspaper chain.
The office, position, or jurisdiction of a syndic or body of syndics.
So yes the term is used correctly. As far as the rest of your post, are you somehow implying that these groups have done no wrong? Copyright is a matter of Law so I fail to see how having law enforcement deal with it is "The feds are just taking care of their corporate masters."
These people were breaking the law, they knew it, and they got what was coming to them. Don't make it sound like they are some sort of folk hero 'sticking it to the man' when they're nothing but petty little criminals.
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Re:Call them "Evil Doers" next... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Call them "Evil Doers" next... (Score:5, Insightful)
Break the law because it's wrong, suffer the punishment because it's right, and work to change the system.
It's acceptable to challenge any law you want, but it also means as a responsible individual you also pay the consequences of that law. If everyone breaks the same law, willingly, because the law is wrong, that brings the attention of the lawmakers that the law is wrong, because everyone would be their constituents and voters.
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Re:Call them "Evil Doers" next... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
You're a moron (Score:5, Insightful)
A.) Participate in piracy, so this pisses you off.
B.) Have a beef against Ashcroft, so it just ruffles your panties to see him cracking down on illegal software piracy.
There is absolutely, 100% nothing wrong with the government cracking down on this. Slashdot wants to pretend it's some sort of miniscule, "gray area" problem, but it's millions of users all trading warez and making it harder to sell software.
Why the hell do you think PC sales are so low, and so game companies are turning to consoles? Don't give me the "games were better in the olden days" spin, because we've got everything from Far Cry to Invisible War to SimCity 4 to Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 to...you get the picture.
"Copyright Enforcement Militia"...this is such propaganda bullshit that I can't believe--no wait, I CAN believe it got modded up. A post bitching about the emotive use of the word "syndicate" yet emotively using "militia." Nice!
Let's all pirate the fuck out of Doom 3, shall we? I'm sure John Carmack won't mind. Will he?
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Re:Call them "Evil Doers" next... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Call them "Evil Doers" next... (Score:5, Funny)
So who is the United States serving? It can't be the citizens of its country, since the writeup indicates that the US no longer counts as a country: "enforcement from 10 countries and the United States...".
Parent
Re:Call them "Evil Doers" next... (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean, serving the citizens of their countries, who are trying to make money by selling software? You mean, enforcing the law?
How dare they! It would make much more sense for them to start working for the software pirates.
I believe that the parent thinks there are higher priority criminals to hunt than a few losers who pirate mediocre games. Victimless crimes and white collar crimes should never take precidence and resources from the prosecution of violent crimes.
It should be a matter of triage, first make society safe, then worry about maintaing private industry's profit margins against the gangs of computer toting outlaw teenagers.
However, the victims of muggings, spousal abuse, drug related violence and gangsta drive-by shootings do not make the hefty campaign contributions, nor do they have the ability to make press and TV conferences. They are just the average tax-payers - you know - the ones the Law Enforcement Officers swore to serve, protect, and defend.
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Re:Call them "Evil Doers" next... (Score:5, Insightful)
Before you reply or moderate, ask yourself a few questions. Who benefits from busting Video Game pirates? If you think American citizens will, do you think they will benefit from cheaper game prices? Or maybe we'll get better games now that the pirates are all shut down? Or do you really think that as corporate profits go up, wages will, too, and that everyone benefits from helping the corporation? (in reality, the only people who benefit are the shareholders, who pay the lobbyists to wine & dine the legislators)
*Consider this: is there a way that Microsoft could be punished that would reduce computer prices and maybe even stimulate the computer industry, and the software industry as well? I think someone could probably come up with such a solution, and that it would be a far more effective use of gov't time & money than chasing warez kiddies.
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Re:Capitalism is the root. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is Earth.
There is no solution. We just muddle along the best we can and as far as I can tell, capitalism seems to give the most people the most opportunity to make their lives into whatever it is they want.
Unfortunately, some people still get screwed. See line #1.
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the stairway to heaven (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't forget the part about placing value judgements on people based upon how much, or little, they made for themselves. It might look wide and free, like the sea, but there is a very fixed path to follow; freedom isn't real if all options but one have negative consequences attached.
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Re:Capitalism is the root. (Score:5, Insightful)
The difference between you and a corporation is that your sole purpose is not to make money. A corporation exists only to make money. If they give away free medicine to kids, it's to improve their image so they can make money. If killing 8,000 people in Bhopal will make them money, you better hope you don't live in Bhopal. Making money is the purpose of a corporation.
I think that part of what's needling you is that corporations are being granted some of the rights that individuals enjoy, yet they exist only to make money are not subject to the same constraints that individuals are. You can't throw a corporation in jail for murdering someone. You can throw the CEO in jail if he screws up badly enough, but it's a little tougher when you remember that corporations were created for the sole purpose of distancing corporate decision makers from the consequences of their actions. Also, a distributed decision-making process and distributed accountability reduces each individual employee's share of the guilt to the kind of manageable level that allows for some really spectacularly bad shit to happen.
A lot of people who otherwise believe in laissez faire and the free-market are troubled by the zaibatsu-style mega corporations because they have grown large enough and influential enough to circumvent many of the normal free-market checks and balances.
The Dalai Llama
... I am not an economist, but watching increasingly smaller numbers of people control increasingly larger numbers of increasingly limited shared resources is making me increasingly worried...
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Re:Class (Score:5, Insightful)
If the Linux kernel got hijacked and put into, say, some other Well Known OS illegally, can you tell me that nobody around here would making any "John Ashcroft should drop the hammer on these guys" remarks?
I don't doubt that some favors exchanged hands to get this kind of attention marked as a priority at Ashcroft's level. But keep in mind that the same law that works for them works for everyone else too, no matter how lop-sided it may seem sometimes.
Parent
Re:I'm having Flashbacks... (Score:5, Interesting)
The original owner's wife's ex-husband called the FBI and told them Cyber had pirated software and child pornography available for download. So the FBI raided. AFAIK, they didn't damage anything, and left once it was demonstrated that the file libraries were clean.
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Re:Damn, I'm so out of touch. (Score:5, Funny)
They were decoy goups set up by the crackers as honeypots to attract the FBI and observe its techniques.
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Re:Your Rights Online?? (Score:5, Insightful)
in fact it's the first thing I download after buying it. so I know that in 4 years I can still use that which i OWN. Games or apps that need Key's and/or authorize to a master server are crappy to the user. and the first thing I do is remove that crud so I am ensured that my legal purchase cant be stolen from me by the corrupt developers or companies that think that I no longer have the right to use an app that I bought 5 years ago...
Yes I'm one of those evil people that buy something that works and stay's there. Lightwave 5.5 instead of being a lemming and buying the upgrade every year (Yes I'm evil and making programmer's babies starve!) and Yes I have my dongle and origional manuals. I also have all the keygens and cracks for it... which were NEEDED to make it work under windows 2000 and XP.
so you know what, screw off. there are LOTS of legit uses for cracks and keygens. and I reccomwend and point EVERYONE I know to the sites to get their keygens and cracks for their legal software
if you are a developer and add that crap to your app, then you suck and I really hope I piss you off to no end.
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