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Spam United States Your Rights Online

Overseas Crooks Abuse TTY Phone Service 304

Posted by michael from the there-are-no-words dept.
Rick Zeman writes "The Arizona Daily Star is reporting on how 419 scammers and credit card thieves are abusing the US' TTY service which enables hearing-impaired citizens to make phone calls with the help of an intermediary operator. 'The callers try to use stolen credit-card numbers to make big purchases of merchandise from American companies. The operators often suspect fraud, but they can't just hang up. Federal rules require them to make the calls and keep the contents strictly confidential.' Yes, Virginia, they have no shame...."
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Overseas Crooks Abuse TTY Phone Service More

Overseas Crooks Abuse TTY Phone Service

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  • No authentication leads to abuse... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:16PM (#8818730)
    Anything that's totally given away for free meant to help a certain segment of society should at least seek proof that the person taking advantage of the service is a member of that segment of society.

    No government in the USA hands out handcapped parking permits to everyone who asks. There's a documentation process to certify that one is entitled to it. Sure, that process sometimes gets fooled into giving a permit to somebody not entitled to it, but as least there's a paper trail created by such a fraud that can be followed once it is discovered.

    Free TTY services be allowed to issue usernames and passwords to their customers, keep text logs of the conversations, and able to revoke the access of those who abuse their accounts. Basically, the laws that are requiring them to be open are also regulating this service to its death. This needs to be fixed quick.

    • Re:No authentication leads to abuse... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Unnngh! ( 731758 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:22PM (#8818832)
      I did a quick googling and found some statistics:

      http://www.access-board.gov/telecomm/marketrep/app endices/ttyvm.htm

      That's 200000-700000 people using an older type of tty terminal. Maintaining a database and logs for this many users alone is a fair-sized task, and the offices are distributed nationwide.

      I'm afraid a cost-benefit analysis would reveal that it's (currently) cheaper to let the scammers scam:(

      • Credit card companies should handle credit scams; that's how they do it for non-TTY credit scammers.

      • Re:No authentication leads to abuse... (Score:5, Informative)

        by awtbfb ( 586638 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @05:09PM (#8820204)
        That's 200000-700000 people using an older type of tty terminal.

        Since this is /. I'll chime in here with some clarifying information. TTYs are not what most /.ers would consider a tty. To communicate with the old, unfortunately almost standard, Baudot style TTY, you need to buy a special modem [gallaudet.edu]. Baudot is dog slow (45.45 Baud [gallaudet.edu]) and a fast typist can easily out-type the protocol. At the receiving end it is incredibly painful to wait for someone to get through a long sentence. Newer, proprietary, fast protocols (e.g., TurboCode [ultratec.com]) have removed this bottleneck, but computer compatibility still requires hardware.

        This hardware requirement why internet relays are so nice - you can just use a regular computer without messing with extra gear and you can call from just about anywhere. Furthermore, you can now access the internet relays via smartphones and PDAs, thus giving users a truly mobile option.
      • I'm afraid a cost-benefit analysis would reveal that it's (currently) cheaper to let the scammers scam:(

        Like email?

    • Re:No authentication leads to abuse... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by BlewScreen ( 159261 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:25PM (#8818868)
      keep text logs of the conversations, and able to revoke the access of those who abuse their accounts.

      You can't be serious... Would you advocate keeping a log of every voice call as well, and revoking phone service from those who "abuse their accounts"???

      Who's going to define "abuse"? Can a TTY user have phone sex, or is this something the deaf shouldn't be allowed to access?

      -bs

      • Can a TTY user have phone sex, or is this something the deaf shouldn't be allowed to access?

        Actually, I think a pretty good case could be made that the TTY users shouldn't have access to phone sex services. Not only is it pointless (they could just use IM or e-mail instead) but it would be unfair to the person relaying the conversation. Would you want your daughter/mother to be relaying phone sex for people?

        • Devil's Advocate here...

          Maybe we need to rethink the whole 'equal access' thing. Why jump through hoops to give the disabled to nearly every segment of society? So they can feel 'normal'? They aren't... that's part of the definition.

          I mean, what's the point? What is the justification here? I'm not asking this to make flames or troll here... I honestly want to know why this is considered to be a good and desirable thing?
          • I'm hearing-impaired. I have to use closed captioning to watch TV. Closed captioning is required of broadcasters/cable channels by law. It's only fair, since some of my tax money supports the television system. If I have to pay something, I should be able to use it. Similarly, many programs broadcast audio descriptions on a second audio track for the blind. Both can be turned off if they aren't desired.

            If we have to pay for it (the phone system in the US is partly paid for by taxes), we should be able to u
          • Because one day you might be disabled too, and I don't think you want to sit around in your home all the day thinking: Oh well at least those normal people won't have to think about me now...

          • We don't give the disabled access to everything. Case in point: you do not see wheel chair bound workers placing the I beams of skyscrappers.

            We provide the disabled access where it is feasible. I know many hard of hearing (and a few deaf) people, and the majority are otherwise normal smart people. They can function in society with just a little help. Now I have a choice: I can give them money for food each day, or I can pay for a few things like TTY operators and let them then earn their living. T

        • to say that my kinky daughter can't be a phone sex intermediary for the blind! My guess is, that if you can find enough people to be phone sex operators, you can find enough to be phone sex intermediaries.
          • Who are you to say that my kinky daughter can't be a phone sex intermediary for the blind!

            :-)

            I wouldn't want to stop your kinky daughter from doing that if she wants! Maybe the right answer is to require phone sex companies to cater for deaf people directly so that they don't need to go through a relay service. Then your daughter could be a full-time phone sex relayer, if she so desires.

        • More to the point would you be confortable using this if you deaf g/f called you using this and the person relaying was a guy with a really deep voice?

      • Insightful? Last I checked, phone sex was not illegal whereas credit card and wire fraud are.

        I do, however, agree that logging calls is a very, very Bad Thing to do. The companies being scammed need to have safeguards in place to make sure they can not only recognize problems, but go back and figure out what happened, who did it, and where they are with the help of law enforcement.

        TTY ops are intermediaries. Their job is not to protect companies on one side of the line from fraud and vice versa. They are there to channel information, not concern themselves with its content.

        • I have a deaf friend and I've talked to her via TTY a couple times. It's very wierd and I was totally uncomfortable, but the woman involved was almost unreally professional, to the point of reproducing my stammers and mutters about how I didn't really like it. I can't even imagine the mindset involved to be able to do that sort of thing all day long, without letting yourself get involved in the conversation.
      • What do they need that for on a phone? That's what chat rooms are for!

    • Log today, spam tomorrow (or worse) (Score:5, Insightful)

      by starsong ( 624646 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:32PM (#8818961)

      keep text logs of the conversations

      This one doesn't make sense to me. Do the people who issue handicapped parking permits keep a list of the places people park? These conversations are often intensely personal; it's literally the only way some of these people can use a telephone. I agree completely with authentication, but keeping records seems intrusive and demeaning. And if they are kept, sooner or later the deaf will start getting "targeted" TTY advertisements...

      "You recently mentioned to your mother that you're thinking of moving. Contact Local Realtors Inc for a free consulation!", etc.

      To say nothing of the legal implications; a warrentless wiretap on thousands of American phones, always running, in plain-text, east-to-search format.

    • A good solution would be to require a newer TTY terminal that would actually rip out the caller's larynx. Then all TTY users would be legit TTY users.

    • I don't think you understand (Score:4, Interesting)

      by kurisuto ( 165784 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:41PM (#8819080) Homepage
      I'm hearing. My boyfriend is deaf. I can pick up any voice phone, call the relay service, and use it to call my boyfriend. The CA types what I say, and reads to me what my boyfriend types back.

      How would you put a password protection on this? Would every hearing person have to register a spoken password to be able to call a deaf person?

      The point of the relay service is to allow deaf and hearing people equal access to the phone system. If I need a password to call a deaf person but not a hearing person, that's hardly equal access.

      Deaf people would never stand for such unequal treatment. They would be even more insulted if you said that they can't take care of themselves by screening their own scammers as hearing people do.

      • SMS. I noticed a deaf guy at a bar the other night thumbing away on his cellphone. Evidently having a very good conversation with whomever. I thought "now THERE is a good use for that technology". Obviously, the person on the other end needs one too, but it removes the relay person from the middle of the conversation.
      • Deaf people would never stand for such unequal treatment.

        I'm sympathetic, honest, but to play Devil's Advocate, how is that equal access? I can't get free translation service to call someone who speaks a different language, so why should your boyfriend get unlimited access to such a free service?

        Having said that, I can think of a few legitimate reasons why, but I wonder what the "official" answer is. What do TTY advocates tell people who feel that they shouldn't have to pay to support that service?

      • If I need a password to call a deaf person but not a hearing person, that's hardly equal access.

        Not that I think the idiot plan of logging is anything other than an idiot plan, but I thing they're only talking about requiring a name and password for a deaf person to call out, not requiring a password to call a deaf person.

        I admit, this is still not equal access: the deaf will need to (briefly) identify themselves and provide proof of their identity (the password) to make a phone call, where the hearin
      • Your boyfriend would register his phone number so that he could receive calls from people like you.

        The password thing would be for his outgoing calls.
      • The deaf should screen what? They are not involved. It is a hearing scammer typing tekst to the translator who then places the order. The only part the deaf play is that they will get longer waiting times and possibly reduced service as companies will immidiatly suspect a call of this type.

        So there is no taking care of themselves. They are just bystanders.

    • "Free TTY services be allowed to issue usernames and passwords to their customers, keep text logs of the conversations,"

      Yeah, because only hearing people should be allowed private phone conversations. The Fourth Amendment doesn't apply to deaf people.

    • Re:No authentication leads to abuse... (Score:5, Informative)

      by abb3w ( 696381 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @04:06PM (#8819429) Journal
      Free TTY services be allowed to issue usernames and passwords to their customers,

      Yes. Requiring some sort of proof that the service is needed as you suggest might also be desirable.

      keep text logs of the conversations,

      No.

      As I recall my sign language instructor explaining, the TTY Relay Service operator (and, I suppose, anything they might keep a hypothetical log with) is legally considered to be part of the telephone. They are NOT allowed to discuss anthing they hear; and any testimony they give about anything they have heard prior to a wiretap warrant being issued is legally inadmissable. You can be planning a murder, and the operator just has to relay the messages back and forth. It's a condition of legal privilege similar to those of spouses, doctors, lawyers, and the Secret Service.

      Allowing mandatory logging would effectively put a bug into the phone of every deaf person who has need of this service. Any regulation or legislation permitting this would be struck down in court as a violation of the equal protection and reasonable search clauses.

      As for the phone companies doing it themselves, they are under what is called "common carrier protection"-- they make no judgements over what to carry, they just send the voices back and forth, whether it's a call to mom or a death threat. Yes, harrassing calls are illegal, but the phone company only can take action AFTER the recipient complains. Logging, and revoking access based on use, would remove the Telco common carrier protection, and they REALLY don't want to do that. Not to mention the incidental that this might get them sued for civil rights violations under that pesky equal protection clause again.


      This report does lead me to wonder, however. I recall being informed by a professor who specializes in history of computing that the phone phreak community back in the 1970's to 1990s was had a very large blind community. While speculations on the cause of that are moot to the matter at hand, there might actually be a group of deaf/hard-of-hearing folk who are gathering around this new (and even less moral) illegal activity. If so, it would be depressing.

      Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, I just argue with one.
      • You can be planning a murder, and the operator just has to relay the messages back and forth. It's a condition of legal privilege similar to those of spouses, doctors, lawyers, and the Secret Service.

        Do you really believe our justice system would require the level of moral depravity you are discussing?

        I've got news for you, I don't give a shit what your job is, but if you reasonably believe someone is planning to commit a serious felony such as murder, you are required to report it to the authorities. T
    • keep text logs of the conversations

      We did that unofficially at my previous tech support gig. The entries looked like:

      Have talked to user 6 times via relay service. You will want to stab yourself before you've finished telling the relay operator how to get into the network control panel.
      They all meant well, sure, but providing tech support to someone who's not a computer expert via someone who thinks a TTY is spiffy is an exercise in sadomasochism.

  • What a horrible job. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Allen Zadr ( 767458 ) * <Allen.Zadr@g m a i l . com> on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:17PM (#8818755) Journal

    Let's describe the job of a Relay Operator:
    No matter what the phone call, or what the content of that phone call is, the Relay Operator must, by law continue the conversation.

    When a deaf person is feeling lonely they might decide to call a phone entertainment line, man or woman, having to type this in, and say what the deaf person types.

    Like the job of a relay operator isn't bad enough, now the operators have to deal with Nigerian poor grammer while perpetrating fraud.

    • Re:What a horrible job. (Score:4, Informative)

      by JanneM ( 7445 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:30PM (#8818922) Homepage
      Um, yes. By law, and by the very job specification they had when applying, they do have to do this. It's not like it's a huge surprise, right: "Oh mai gahd! A human wants to talk about sex! With a member of the opposite gender!!"

      Assistants to disabled people have dealt with this for a long time; there is even accepted codes of conduct for various situations (basically, assistants should have a similar moral outlook as their bosses, or they will likely not be able to work together over time).

    • Re:What a horrible job. (Score:5, Informative)

      by ShortSpecialBus ( 236232 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:32PM (#8818955) Homepage
      I worked as a relay operator for about 9 months before I quit because it was ridiculous.

      Mind you, this wasn't normal tty relay. This was IP-Relay, which allows anyone with a computer to use it as a tty basically.

      Because I've signed NDA's and don't really want to break federal law, I can't go into detail about any calls, but I think I can safely say that what the article describes is pretty accurate.

      Also, As for sex lines, that's not too common with IP-Relay. What is common though is bored high school kids calling each other and being very creative with what they make you say/type.

      It's funny for a while, and not that bad of a job, but a lot of it is tedious, dull, and annoying (Touchtone menus...AARGH).
    • Can you insert meta tags into the conversation in either direction?

      Operator reads: "I am the nephew of rich General Hooya..."
      Operator says: "He says *coughbullshit* he's the nephew of rich General Hooya *snicker*..."

    • I've also heard about pranksters who will use a TTY service to have fun at the expense of the operator, such as calling an automated service to "leave a message" then cutting and pasting the entire Windows XP EULA (yes, someone did this, according to a report) into the input box (the TTY input was done via a web browser). The operator is required by law to continue speaking as long as text comes on, even if it's something utterly stupid like that, and there's nothing that they can do about it legally.

      A fe

  • No different (Score:3, Insightful)

    by JanneM ( 7445 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:19PM (#8818780) Homepage
    How is this different from the same scammers calling people with the same pitch?

    I would be a lot more worried about the idea of an outside party filtering my incoming calls without any control from me.

    More specifically, it is hard to have fun with phone salesmen or religious door-knockers once they learn to avoid you. :)

    • Re:No different (Score:3, Insightful)

      by BCW2 ( 168187 )
      The difference is that most small business owners have a concience and will bend over backwards to help someone they think is disabled. Then they get caught in the scam and lose.
    • If I want to scam a brit, I'd probably want to do it with a native British accent. Same with a Nigerian scammer.

      It's also just one more layer of obfuscation between the scammer and the mark.

    • Re:No different (Score:2, Insightful)

      by twbecker ( 315312 )
      The crime itself is the same but it's much harder for the retailer to be suspicious of an American operator who isn't speaking improper English with a heavy accent of some sort.

  • We've gotten this (Score:5, Informative)

    by bravehamster ( 44836 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:19PM (#8818783) Homepage Journal
    At the computer shop I run we've literally recieved hundreds of these phone calls. The conversation typically goes like this (but relayed, so it takes forever)

    Do you sell laptops?
    No, we don't sell any laptops.
    How about desktops?
    Yes, we do desktops.
    Will you ship overseas?
    No, no overseas shipments.
    Ok..ok...how about Los Angeles.
    We can do that.
    Ok, I have credit card, I can pay now.
    We'd need some sort of verification that you are the cardholder.

    The conversation goes downhill from there. The first few times we took it seriously, but since then we've refused to take relay calls. If we hear the operator say "This is a relay call" we interrupt and say "Sorry, we don't take relay calls" and then HANG UP. If you don't hang up, the operator will say "hold" while they type out the message and then wait for a response. Waste..of...goddamn...time. Slamming the reciever down helps. If there's any people who genuinely use the service...sorry, we just can't afford to spend hours wading through these phone calls to get to you.

    • Yes, Hang up! (Score:4, Informative)

      by ShortSpecialBus ( 236232 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:36PM (#8819008) Homepage
      If you don't want to take the call, the best thing you can do is hang up. It saves the operator (me at one time) a lot of time and frustration.

      If the person calls back 2 or 3 times, you might want to take the call, however. The scammers/people who aren't who they say they are won't have you do that. The real deaf people are used to that, so they have you call back a few times in hopes to get a different person who will take the call, or give you a chance to convince the person to talk.

      But if you still have no intention of taking the call, just hang up, saying as little as possible.

      It saves the operators a lot of trouble.
    • The medical community, in particular, resellers of medical equipment, have been dealing with this for a long time. My wife works for one such reseller (smallish, local business with a few chain stores) and they get TTY scams almost daily.

      FYI, they have adopted the same response you have. I am certain we'll be sued as well because some folks designed an exploitable soltion and then legislated (read: forced) its use.

      On a related note, this strongly smells like the spam laws of late.

      Regards,
      -- RLJ

    • I have gotten many such calls at my little computer shop. Sometimes I get into a sympathetic conversation with the operator, who is perfectly willing to tell me the caller is probably a fraud.

      I don't sell laptops and I don't ship overseas. If the caller asks why, I say that I am a retail store and prefer that my customers pick up their merchandise in person. My final defense, which I haven't had to use yet, is to say that I only sell the Commodore Amiga.
      John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)

      • Re:We've gotten this (Score:5, Informative)

        by ShortSpecialBus ( 236232 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:47PM (#8819142) Homepage
        They could be fired/jailed for that. When I worked as a Relay Operator, the main things stressed were Confidentiality and Transparency. You are NEVER NEVER allowed to talk to either end. Your job is a telephone line. You can't answer questions, you can't do anything. If you get asked questions, you basically have to tell the person that you are a telephone line and don't know anything, and to ask the person who they are talking to. Or my favorite thing to do was just type the questions that they asked me to the TTY user.

        • They could be fired/jailed for that. When I worked as a Relay Operator, the main things stressed were Confidentiality and Transparency. You are NEVER NEVER allowed to talk to either end. Your job is a telephone line. You can't answer questions, you can't do anything. If you get asked questions, you basically have to tell the person that you are a telephone line and don't know anything, and to ask the person who they are talking to. Or my favorite thing to do was just type the questions that they asked me t

          • No, you don't.

            I worked the job for 9 months.

            You don't like being talked to, because if you are being monitored, you lose points for it, and there goes your raise. It's hard to handle that situation properly, so you're almost guaranteed to get a bad eval by QA.

        • Re:We've gotten this (Score:3, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward
          as a CA you could be fired and perhaps jailed (I don't know the law) but in real life you almost certainly won't. I was a CA for a summer and yes they do stress confidentiality and transparency but in our office that rule was much more honored in the breach. Of the dozens of people working there only 2 were the hard-asses who would flat out refuse to relay anything that wasn't typed to them by the deaf person on the other and of the tty.

          Most hearing people who call the service make comments to the operato

      • Ditto here, except with us it was an order of five 17" LCDs. Our shop does not ship parts though, they must be picked up. I stressed this to the operator, but all the other end would reply with is "I have credit card." I had a feeling it was a scam when the other end insisted on us shipping them out via UPS with his UPS number, but I didn't say anything. The operator then informed me it was most likely a scam, and that they get hundreds of calls like this per day, and even offered to terminate the call

    • Re:We've gotten this (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jeff DeMaagd ( 2015 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:47PM (#8819144) Homepage Journal
      If there's any people who genuinely use the service...sorry, we just can't afford to spend hours wading through these phone calls to get to you.

      Thankfully, legitimate deaf people can use the internet to make their orders, a lot quicker I would guess.

    • Re:We've gotten this (Score:5, Informative)

      by fo0bar ( 261207 ) * on Friday April 09, 2004 @04:03PM (#8819382)
      I have several deaf friends who use both TTY relay services and the newer internet relay services. And because of this, admittedly I use the internet relay services occasionally. While this is technically an abuse of the system, as I myself am not deaf, it can be a real convieience. One thing to mention, if you do use these services, deaf or not, is to be POLITE. Remember, this is a throwback of the original TTY services, so there is a certain formality to the conversation. Use the proper etiquette, and be sure to thank the CA (communication assistant) at the end of the conversation. This must be an incredibly boring and tedious job, so at lease use a little manners when dealing with them.

      That being said, I would recommend at least listening to the first sentence of the caller before thinking about hanging up. Just yesterday I called a local computer shop to check the price of a power supply, and the conversation was quick and polite. (I doubt nigerian scammers would want to buy a $60 power supply and ask about the store hours). Here's approximately how a conversation goes: (other end begins with a colon)

      : dialing... 1... 2... answered... (male) thank you for calling computershop inc. how can i help you q ga
      hello. what is your lowest price on a 500 watt power supply q ga
      : let me check one moment (hold music) I have one for 59 90 ga
      thank you. and what time are you open until tonight q ga
      : 6 pm ga
      thanks a lot ga to sk
      : thank you (call ended)
      : ga or sk
      ca thank you sk
      : sksk

      A little terminology: "ga" means "go ahead", "q ga" is asking a question, "ga to sk" is signaling that you wish to end the conversation ("sk" meaning "stop keying"), "ga or sk" is essentially the CA asking "is there anything else I can do for you?", at which point I thank him/her and signal the end of the conversation. "sksk" is the final signal that the conversation is over.

      • One thing to mention, if you do use these services ... is to be POLITE

        Also worth noting is the serial nature of TTY conversations. You have to wait for the other person to finish what they are saying before you start. As such, don't interrupt and try not to get into lengthy monologues.

        That being said, I would recommend at least listening to the first sentence of the caller before thinking about hanging up.

        I cannot stress this enough. It's truly stunning how many people assume relay calls are telemar

    • The first few times we took it seriously, but since then we've refused to take relay calls. If we hear the operator say "This is a relay call" we interrupt and say "Sorry, we don't take relay calls" and then HANG UP.

      Which is exactly the problem. You're taking a perfectly reasonable position: every single relay call you get is a scam artist, you don't want to waste your time talking to them. However, as a result you're blocking off the very, very rare deaf person who really needs the relay system. It's a

  • Free matter for the blind. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by stankyho ( 172180 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:24PM (#8818851) Homepage
    Anyone else know about the "free matter for the blind" scam?

    I read about it several (over 15) years ago in some magazine. Basically when mailing a letter instead of a stamp you just write free matter for the blind.

    I think I may have tried it once back then to send myself a letter just to see if it worked. Can't remember if it did though.
    • That's very interesting. I had never heard of such a thing but a web search revealed that it's true. Check out this [usps.gov] document from the USPS that explains how it works. It's a real shame that programs and institutions created to help the physically challenged are being abused because the only thing that can come from this is dissolution of the programs and institutions.

  • Some Good Examples of Deaf Relay (TTY) Abuse (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Can be found here:

    http://phonelosers.org/sound.html [phonelosers.org]

    Specifcally this one which would probably get you a trip to camp X-ray today

    Phone_Losers_of_America_0118_Deaf_Relay_Commuter_A irline.mp3 [plamirror.com]

  • 419 Scammers ? (Score:3, Funny)

    by FoxMcCloud ( 572729 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:33PM (#8818968)
    419 scammers and credit card thieves are abusing the US' TTY service ?
    Mh, I wonder how they counted that there were precisely 419 of them.

  • I've had this happen where I work. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by b00m3rang ( 682108 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:33PM (#8818975)
    Someone supposedly calling from "Royal Oil" in Nigeria wanted to order 200 40GB hard drives, by credit card. We told them we only ship overseas if payment is made by wire transfer. Another hint was that it's unlikely an oil company would resort to using a yahoo email address (royaliol@). They called back several times, but we obviously wouldn't budge.

    The most annoying part was the amount of time it took to complete the calls. I can't be rude to a /possibly/ legitimate caller by hanging up, but the translation process takes a while... especially when they're probably on several calls and don't get back to the terminal by the time it's their turn to talk.

  • ofcourse (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Wouter Van Hemel ( 411877 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:35PM (#8819005) Homepage
    Last year I had to track down some carders operating from the US, who were trying to buy products here in Europe with stolen and/or generated credit card numbers. It makes sense to pull that stunt with people (read: jurisdiction) far from your own home...

    You know how difficult (and expensive) it is to both track down the people and get a conviction? Laws are made on a national level, institutions such as police and justice departements are also pretty much bound to their specific country (unless you just act as if you own the world), hence international crime has little or no resistance. I mean, why would you care if the crime has been committed elsewhere?...

    Same with spam, really. Most spam I receive comes from scumbags on US soil, and it's pretty hard to harm them from here. As opposed to local spammers: a friend of mine once made a real-life visit when he received a spam email from a company not far from where he lives. He didn't get any spam anymore from that company.

    That might be a viable solution to the spam problem anyway: just a global team-up of people willing to visit spammers living close to their own home. I'm not implying a violent posse here. Even a criminal would get a clue when there's suddenly a bunch of very pissed off people in front of his/her door.

  • Simple Fix... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by zulux ( 112259 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:38PM (#8819047) Homepage Journal


    Here's a simple fix:

    Change the TTY/Realy number to a 1-900 numner and charge calls from whereever ther're made. Say $1.00 a minuite.

    Then every month - Registered and bonified deaf people can submit a copy of their telephone invoice to the Federal Government and get a refund check for the amount used.

    People who abuse the system without being daaf get to pay for it - deaf people get this vital service for free.

    • That doesnt work at all.

      What they use is the free internet relay service, which lets you use your computer as a TTY.

      www.ip-relay.com [ip-relay.com] is one.

      ATT also has one, someone earlier posted the URL.

    • Re:Simple Fix... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by elmegil ( 12001 )
      Some variation of this may be workable but I see two big problems as stated: 1) it requires all Deaf to register. Imagine if you were talking about Japanese, or African American, or Gun Owners instead... 2) not all Deaf are going to be able to put the money up front, especially if for some reason they have an especially heavy call volume (say a death in the family, or whatever). Imagine if you had to do this for your phone bill, paying the phone company in advance for what you might use and then getting
      • but I see two big problems as stated: 1) it requires all Deaf to register.

        I don't see registration being too onerous to get a service that is *heavilly* subsudised by other taxpayers.

  • Easy solution? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rjelks ( 635588 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:39PM (#8819052) Homepage
    Can't the merchants just require the 3-digit security code on the back of the credit cards , if they're losing money?

    • Can't the merchants just require the 3-digit security code on the back of the credit cards , if they're losing money?

      You mean the security code that many online businesses (including reputable ones) require me to enter? If the source of stolen numbers is a hacked business database the number will likely be exposed. Similarly, if the stolen number was just copied down by the rare dishonest waiter, he can easily copy the 3 digit code at the same time.

      The 3-digit security code doesn't really help much, i

    • Can't the merchants just require the 3-digit security code on the back of the credit cards , if they're losing money?

      A "good" phishing site will ask for that information, along with your SSN, mother's maiden name, and any other information some organizations use to verify "you" for financial transactions. Anyone who is a target of identity theft isn't going to be saved by information you're expected to share with any merchant who asks for it.

  • I'm somewhat ignorant on this whole issue, but why don't the TTY service centers only accept calls from certain area codes and be done with it? There's no reason why they should have to service calls from outside their service area (which I'm assuming is regional to AZ), much less outside the country.

    What am I missing here?
  • If the operator is, by law, required to facilitate the conversation, what happens if it is blatantly illegal, such as a terrorist plot, or a deal for kiddy porn or drugs? the operator is required to keep the conversation confidentail? It is not like there can't be deaf criminals. And besides, if these people are not even deaf, what is to say that the same thing can not be done by criminals or terrorists?
    is the opperator still required to facilitate the conversation and keep quiet? isn't that then like,

  • Big money maker for companies providing relay (Score:3, Insightful)

    by yarrick ( 583362 ) on Friday April 09, 2004 @03:48PM (#8819148)
    But Internet relay service makes up a minuscule fraction of revenues for Sprint, said company spokesman Steve Lunceford.

    "It's not a financial thing for us," he said.

    That's totally false. I used to work for an internet relay company as a relay operator (*cough* begins with an M ends with an I *cough*). Here's the plain and simple facts of it:

    Relay companies get paid XX amount of dollars per day, assuming they can meet a certain service level. They have to answer calls queued into their system within a certain period of time. Every call that isn't answered is counted against their running total.

    If a relay company falls below a certain percent (it's around 80% or so in a 24 hour period of time), they receive NO MONEY for that day. For the company I worked at, they had 1 day last year where they failed to maintain the standard. The amount of money lost for 1 day? Approaching $3 million according to management.

    Anyone saying that business isn't a money making enterprise is full of BS.

  • As a student loan company, we get an enormous number of these calls every week. Every time we have a new hire, we have to take at least half a day of training to educate them on the various ways that overseas scammers will attempt to take advantage of phone reps. The TTY server, and AT&T's Internet Relay service, are badly abused. It's to the point now where we are considering a voice message to direct the rare legitimate TTY-necessary customer to either email or fax options - at least with those options, we can blacklist originating exchanges (outside the US) or on spam lists.

    It's really sad, but there will always be those whose work ethic embodies the tragedy of the commons to the fullest.

  • sites fighting the 419 scammers (Score:3, Informative)

    by chongo ( 113839 ) * on Friday April 09, 2004 @04:21PM (#8819585) Homepage Journal
    Some people are fighting back against the 419 scammers. For general information about fighting 419 scam: Here are a few sites dedicated to exposing 419 scammers in an interesting and/or amusing way:
  • Alright, I actually RTFA and I still don't get it. Scammers are abusing TTY services (or, more accurately, web-based applications intended to replace Ye Olde Teletypes). What I still don't understand is why?

    I suppose the scammers realize their accents or (relatively) poor grasp of English might make the recipient of the calls suspicious, but it seems that TTY calls are rare enough to garner attention of their own. Are the scammers that short-sighted?

    Or is it related to Penny Arcade's Greater Internet [penny-arcade.com]

    • Re:Why? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by idesofmarch ( 730937 )
      I thought about this for a long time too. I am a little surprised the article does not get into that more. Here is what I can come up with:

      First, I think you are right about the accents. Because the scammers are pretending to be Americans (possessing credit cards of Americans) they would have a harder time on the phone, with their accents. Also, the call is free, as best as I can tell. Finally, I think there is the additional degree of anonymity, because there is no call to trace. I can only conclude

  • I, sirs, am a relay operator. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09, 2004 @11:23PM (#8822649)
    So I have to put in my 250,000 lira. Mind you, this is never going to be noticed, due to my happy anonymity.

    BUT:

    I work for MCI Worldcom as a relay operator. More specifically, the California Relay Service (CRS). Our center handles calls from IP-RELAY.com (so do the Arizona Relay, the Tennessee Relay, and the Wisconsin Relay, if anyone cares). So all day, it's prank calls and Nigerian scammers. There are a few deaf people using the service, but not many. The signal-to-noise ratio is much too low, so to speak. I make a few measly dollars and hour to put up with this sort of shit. (But at least the health benefits are okay)

    It's always Ghanans and Nigerians. Every single fucking time. Not Koreans or Israelis or anyone else. Most are in Accra, Ghana.

    They buy very few computers, despite what the article says. Mostly, they call printing shops to order blank T-shirts. I'm not really very sure why printing, silkscreening, and embroidery shops would even sell blank white T-shirts in the first place, but they do. Did I mention it's always XXL and XXXL shirts? Don't let those Sally Struthers commercials fool you; people in Ghana are fucking CHUBBY.

    Today, it was wedding dresses. I'm curious why people don't get suspicious when someone wants to order 6 wedding gowns over the phone. Especially when they don't care what sizes or styles, just the price. Not extra large, though, oddly enough, so maybe they're not all as chubby as it seems.

    Some days it's shoes. Some days it's designer perfume. Or gold wristwatches. And some days it is in fact computers.

    And 99% of the time, the credit card is declined. And 90% of the time when that happens, the fucking moron at whichever shop I'm calling will actually ask the person if they have another card. They always have a spare, sometimes with a completely different name.

    Things to look for, if you're a store:

    - The scammer will always ask to have the shop run the credit card while they are on the line. This means, in stores with only one line, that the credit card machine will AUTOMATICALLY approve the card if it passes whatever obscure checksum process they go through. Nice trick.

    - The scammer will, if pressed for a phone number, say that it's not currently working. They don't claim to be deaf and have no phone, which is actually pretty common among the deaf. Instead, they give a phone number with too many digits to be a US number, or an email address. This email address will be composed of a foreign-sounding name, but it will NOT match the name the person gave on the card.

    - The total price will be just shy of $10,000 to avoid hitting the card's limit, OR it will be some multiple of that, and the scammer will have several cards.

    So, every now and then the scammer gets someone to ship him something, be it a half dozen BMW radiators or a $9000.00 Bernina commercial grade sewing machine. He gets his payoff. Congratulations, you stupid sons of bitches, you've successfully stolen things. What do you do with the money?

    You give it to terrorists, of course, so they can go to pilot school. Allah Akbar! (or whatever) Thank goodness for weak extradition treaties, otherwise this wouldn't be possible.

    So do the executives at MCI know about all of this? Of course. The government is giving them a whole fucking load of money every day to keep the relay centers open. Hope it's worth it, guys. As for me, I'm out of there as soon as I get my book written (never).

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