Losing His Religion: Adrian Lamo Interview 208
digidave writes "Six months after the sit-down, TechFocus.org has published their interview with renowned hacker Adrian Lamo. Done before his arrest, TechFocus kept the interview secret so as not to influence the outcome of his trial. It remains his only interview since being arrested."
Only interview? (Score:5, Informative)
Slashdotted (Score:5, Informative)
Adrian Lamo
Posted by Bill Royle on April 08, 2004
The companies he broke into reads like a Forbes ranking list. Yahoo! Excite@Home. MCI WorldCom. Microsoft. SBC Ameritech. Cingular.
He got away with it by notifying those companies of the weaknesses, and in some cases helped fix them, for free. Then he set his sights on the New York Times. They were less forgiving. Today, April 8th, Adrian Lamo will be sentenced - having plead guilty.
I first worked to get an interview with Adrian Lamo in July, 2003. Having compromised the networks of some of the most influential companies in the world was not incredibly unusual, but the manner in which it was done was intriguing. Adrian Lamo has been termed the "homeless hacker," the "helpful hacker" and numerous other nicknames - because instead of disappearing into the ether, he would make the company aware of the flaw he had exploited, and in some cases would advise them on how to resolve it. Based on that approach, Lamo was fortunate to have dealt with companies that didn't choose to press charges.
Then, during an interview with SecurityFocus (not affiliated with Techfocus), he admitted to having broken into the NY Times network. The interviewer contacted the New York Times in a request for comment. Shortly thereafter, the FBI started an investigation. He was ultimately arrested in September for the penetration of the New York Times network, and for using their resources. Today he has pleaded guilty to breaking into their network, and for conducting unauthorized searches on Lexis/Nexis - all on the Grey Lady's tab. You can read the original criminal complaint here.
Lamo had another distinction from many hackers - he did so while homeless. While his family was willing to house him, he set off on his own, traveling from place to place via Greyhound. Occasionally he slept on the couches of people he knew in different cities, at other times he would sleep in abandoned buildings or anywhere feasible. All the while, he traversed networks using a battered laptop with a wireless network card.
Adrian Lamo is most assuredly unique. A month after his arrest, I received an email from him asking how the weather was. A bit puzzled, I contacted a mutual acquaintance to verify that it was Adrian. Indeed it was, so we met the next weekend near his home to discuss his background, and the serious charges he faced.
This was no ordinary interview. Not only had Lamo not given any interviews since the arrest, but the FBI had been exerting tremendous pressure on journalists that had spoken with Lamo, demanding that they turn over all notes and correspondence with him. It was only after a strong outcry from the journalistic community and their attorneys that the FBI grudgingly relaxed their demands, but there was little solace in that. As such, there was nothing written down - just a digital voice recorder with a limited battery. Upon the conclusion of the interview, the recording was transcribed to the PC, then sent to an offshore server outside of my control, in the event that an order was made to surrender it. The digital recording was destroyed.
We hope you enjoy the interview.
Update: Sentencing has been delayed until June.
When did you get started getting interested in security online?
"That'd depend on how you define started, I guess. My first exposure to computers was my Dad's Commodore 64 when I was six or seven, and as you may have read somewhere, I was interested in making things work differently than the way they were intended - loading, then inputting it and using the list command to see all of the code contained within it to see what the hell I was supposed to do with this blind corner that didn't seem to go anywhere."
What kind of games?
"Text-based adventure, like Zork-style."
What moved you to move from disk-based security to a larger scale type of interest?
"To
Lamo (Score:5, Informative)
Audio link (Score:4, Informative)
Wired article (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.04/hacker.h
He was on Off The Hook on Wednesday (Apr 7) (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Lamo (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.04/hacker_p
Adrian's sentencing has been delayed (Score:3, Informative)
According to this article in PC World, Adrian Lamo's sentencing has been delayed until June:
http://www.snpx.com/cgi-bin/news5.cgi?target=www.I wonder if the the NY Times or the Feds decided to change the terms of the plea agreement at the last minute?
Interview text (Score:5, Informative)
When did you get started getting interested in security online?
"That'd depend on how you define started, I guess. My first exposure to computers was my Dad's Commodore 64 when I was six or seven, and as you may have read somewhere, I was interested in making things work differently than the way they were intended - loading, then inputting it and using the list command to see all of the code contained within it to see what the hell I was supposed to do with this blind corner that didn't seem to go anywhere."
What kind of games?
"Text-based adventure, like Zork-style."
What moved you to move from disk-based security to a larger scale type of interest?
"To me there's never been that much of a differentiation, in the sense that what I do is less about a particular methodology of technology that's applicable to some technology but not applicable to others. And more about seeing things differently - seeing things that people see everyday, but seeing them in a way that they never saw, that people who created them never intended them to be seen. To see them, to see what is around them and make them more as the sum of their parts and in doing so cause them to operate in a way that was never intended, expected or even thought possible."
Have you always done this type of thing alone, or do you prefer doing it in a team of other people?
"I've always worked alone pretty much. I will occasionally give pointers, but I very much believe that nobody should look at me as an example to be followed - in the sense that if there's anything that I've done, it's... occupied a space in our world that previously was not occupied. And if there's anything that I can say to anybody that is considering starting out on their own, it's to do something that nobody before them has done. And as such, if I was to really try to unduly influence anybody's path, even by working with them, I'd think that I'd be being untrue to the nature of what I do."
There was a question on the site from someone asking if there were any "schools" or any places to become a "pro hacker." Do you have any suggestions as to where people could go or what you suggest for people who were interested in being an enthusiast?
"The mean streets of Washington D.C. on two dollars a day. Surviving on that - that's a hack."
What was your favorite city in terms of your travels?
"I don't think I have one particular favorite. I have strong affinities to DC, Philadelphia, San Francisco and probably Sacramento, as well as Pittsburgh."
You've been referred to as the "homeless hacker," or "helpful hacker." What started you on the road? Did you have to leave your home against your will - did your parents kick you out or was it something you chose to do?
"No, my parents have always been very good to me. They've always been there for me, no matter what, and they're really great people. When I was seventeen or so, they moved to Sacramento."
Did you like her? Was she a good mom?
"Yeah, she's a great mom. How many moms would stand on the doorstep of a home and tell the FBI "thou shalt not pass," essentially?"
She had said that she wished that you would do something something that everyone would see as positive. Is there any sort of discontent between your family and you when it comes to this field, or is it something you're moving past now?
"The family's in some hard financial straits right now. In many ways I think they don't see what I do as I see it, and certainly not be involved in that respect. They, I believe, view it (computing) more as a hobby and don't really understand, and it seemed to be much closer to being about religion for me."
A
A better URL (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Only interview? (Score:1, Informative)
And you didn't have to wait six months to see that... use their search engine to find all 22 articles [securityfocus.com]...
Exclusive interview? (Score:3, Informative)
Except for all the others...
http://www.securityfocus.com/news/6934
http://
http://news.com.com/2100-7348_3-5135351.ht
http://www.internetweek.com/story/showArticle.
http://www.wired.com/news/i
http://www.2600.com/offthehook/2003/0
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=
http://marketplace.publicr
Re:Fresh taste of burnt spin in the morning (Score:5, Informative)
First off, we knew we'd get subpoenaed, and were ready if that happened.
Second, the notes aren't incriminating to Lamo beyond what some might find offensive regarding his personality (ie. giving someone money to help them get drugs.) If that's pretext for additional charges, we're all in trouble.
Third, none of the the questions or the answers related to his crimes or hacks. What you see in the interview is the transcription of our interview, verbatim.
Thus, under your criteria, prepare to be amazed.
Re:It Figures the Times would do him in (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Only interview? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Only interview? (Score:5, Informative)
The show does stream live online through www.wbai.org (as to all their programs, to my knowledge).
It has some interesting stuff in it, but I guess I could say that about any of the OTH shows.
Re:Religion isn't all he's going to lose... (Score:3, Informative)
On a six-to-twelve month sentence, even if he does it at a joint, it's going to be a Federal prison camp. Highly unlikely he'll be assaulted there.
Propositioned, maybe, but not assaulted.
OTOH, these are not "white-collar resorts". You get more harassment from the staff because they're pissed you're on your way out of the system - and that threatens their job security.
I base these comments on eight years in the Federal prison system as an inmate, so don't even think about contradicting me.