Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Microsoft Government The Courts News

Microsoft To Be Fined E500M By European Union? 1029

An anonymous reader writes "According to a Reuters story, the European Commission is in the process of fining Microsoft 497 million Euros ($613 million). The most important reason for the fine was the refusal by Microsoft to share more information about its products with competitors. Mario Monti, the EU competition commissioner, decided to impose the fine after talks with Microsoft broke down last week." The last estimate was a mere 100 million Euros, and it's noted: "If the full European Commission backs the fine as expected on Wednesday it would exceed the 462 million euro penalty imposed on Hoffman-La Roche AG in 2001 for being ringleader of a vitamin cartel."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Microsoft To Be Fined E500M By European Union?

Comments Filter:
  • Drop in the bucket (Score:5, Interesting)

    by southpolesammy ( 150094 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:34PM (#8638304) Journal
    From the article:

    The fine amounts to slightly more than one percent of Microsoft's roughly $53 billion cash on hand and did not impress analysts and critics.

    "This is a traffic ticket for Microsoft," said Thomas Vinje of Clifford Chance, who represents Microsoft critics.

    Neil Macehiter, an analyst with London-based technology research firm Ovum, said even a $3 billion fine would have been "an irritant to Microsoft but certainly wouldn't break the bank."
  • Fines are nice, (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Hawthorne01 ( 575586 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:35PM (#8638318)
    but does this hurt MicroSoft's ability (and willingness) to do the same behaviour again and again?

    Doubtful.
  • just curious (Score:4, Interesting)

    by JeanBaptiste ( 537955 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:35PM (#8638329)
    why would MS have to comply? Couldnt they just say 'okay, BYE' and not sell in Europe anymore? I know MS sells a lot in europe.... but who would be more injured by such a move, MS or the EU?

    or is there some international law that says MS MUST comply?

    not a troll, just some questions, as IANAL.
  • Yay! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by General Sherman ( 614373 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:37PM (#8638355) Journal
    It's good to know that European courts aren't as flawed as our American ones.

    It almost restores your faith in humanity. Almost.
  • Re:E500M (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DaHat ( 247651 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:37PM (#8638359)
    The best part of a plan such as to what you are hinting... is that you can value your own product however you want...

    "This, Windows 98 Super Ultra Deluxe Supremely Cool Second Edition is valued at 250 Million Euros, and thus for our settlement... we give you two copies... enjoy"

    Course... that assumes the EU agrees to such terms.
  • by burgburgburg ( 574866 ) <splisken06NO@SPAMemail.com> on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:37PM (#8638360)
    since they have they option, why aren't they imposing the maximum fine of 10 percent of annual turnover for the year before the decision, which for Microsoft would amount to $3.43 billion.

    With $53 billion in the coffers, $613 million is a big ol' slap on the wrist.

  • by gid13 ( 620803 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:38PM (#8638372)
    The article says that the major reason for the fines is Microsoft's refusal to license information to competitors to ensure compatibility.

    In other words, the actual software that these laws protects is horrible stuff like RealOne and Quicktime. Open source projects can't afford to license things. I'll be even more impressed than I already am if Mplayer and the like can continue their higher quality in the face of such crappy capitalistic laws.
  • Re:just curious (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DR SoB ( 749180 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:38PM (#8638373) Journal
    I was thinking the same thing. I was also thinking "What if Bill Gates gave everyone the finger, and dumped all his stock?" Imagine what would happen to today's economy if Bill was pissed off enough to dump everything?
  • by IamGarageGuy 2 ( 687655 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:41PM (#8638417) Journal
    I did not see a mention of the removal of media player. Is a fine the only recourse the EU has? Can they not see that cash is not something that will hurt MS but stripping windows down is? *sigh* Another slap on the wrist for a company that buys their way out of any legal troubles yet never addresses the real problems.
  • Woo Hoo!!! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Hassman ( 320786 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:41PM (#8638418) Journal
    Woo Hoo!! This will teach evil monopolies like MS or DeBeers not to mess with us consumers...

    Pfft, yea right. Like the corperations would ever let that happen.

    Check out this Reuters Article. I'm sure you can find it online, it was sent to me via 'business watch'...

    If you don't want to read it, here it is in a nutshell: There are seveal processes that exist that will keep the verdict in the court system for up to 7 years before any payout has to occur. By then? Who knows...


    March 22, 2004 13:26:00 (ET)
    By David Lawsky

    BRUSSELS, March 22 (Reuters) -- Microsoft (MSFT,Trade) will win one thing after it loses a landmark EU antitrust case this week -- months and possibly years before it must do what the European Union executive orders, experts said on Monday.

    The European Commission is scheduled to rule on Wednesday that Microsoft is an abusive monopolist which used the power of its dominant Windows operating system to damage competitors.

    As soon as the ruling is issued, the U.S. software giant will go to court and be assured of months of delay.

    Microsoft will be ordered to pay a fine of hundreds of millions of euros, the topic of an advisory committee of EU member states on Monday.

    The Commission will order the company to sell a version of its operating system without Windows Media Player and to encourage computers makers to provide other audiovisual software.

    And it must license information at a reasonable rate to make the low-level servers of rivals, used for printing and file services, more compatible with Windows desktop machines.

    But as Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith said last week soon after settlement negotiations ended in failure: "Today is just another step in what could be a long process."

    Microsoft has always made maximum use of courts to assert its rights and this will be no exception, experts say.

    "There are enormous possibilities open to Microsoft to buy time," said David Wood, an antitrust lawyer for Howrey Simon.

    The company will appeal the Commission ruling and ask the Court of First Instance to suspend remedies until the underlying case is decided. Until the court decides that first question the remedies are suspended.

    BACK BURNER

    "If they lose the application to suspend they can appeal that to the European Court of Justice. During that period -- the better part of a year -- it is likely the substantive case will be put on the back burner," Wood said.

    The court case itself could take two or three years and an appeal will take an equal amount of time.

    The Commission is expected to argue such a long delay will make its remedies irrelevant, because the market will have moved on and it will be too late to stop damage to other companies and to consumers.

    Microsoft is expected to argue that if it is forced to carry out the remedies ordered by the Commission it cannot undo them and will suffer irreparable harm.

    Some cases move on fast track, if one party agrees to narrow the issues and the Commission agrees to suspend the remedies. But that would pose no advantage for Microsoft.

    "Microsoft clearly wants to have the issues examined as fully as possible. This seems to make it unlikely that they would wish to use the fast-track procedure," Wood said.

    The worst case for Microsoft is that the remedies would begin to bite once an appeals court ruled they may not be suspended, which could take seven months or more.

    The best case is that the remedies would be suspended until the case is finished, which could be seven years or more.

    Even if the issues are suspended, the Commission is expected to move full steam ahead on two other investigations of Microsoft for business practices similar to those that got it in trouble this time.

    And although the remedies may be suspended, the precedent set by the Commission in labelling Microsoft for its abuse of dominance will not disappear.

    "You can expect the Commission to apply the precedent they have in their own decision in comparable cases regardless of whether the court delays the entry into force of their remedies," said Sven Voelcker, an antitrust lawyer with Wilmer, Cutler and Pickering in Brussels.


  • by dowobeha ( 581813 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:41PM (#8638434)
    Slapping them on the wrist? How much is a mere 1/2 Billion going to set someone like Mr. Gates back? I would see the fine as more of a warning than a real punishment.

    Compared with the terms of the USDOJ settlement, this is nice to see. Could have the punishment here been harsher? Certainly. Should have it been harsher? Possibly. Is a 500m euro file harsher punishment than a US settlement that allows donations of a monopoly's product in partial lieu of payments? Definitely.

  • by mystery_bowler ( 472698 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:42PM (#8638445) Homepage
    Oh yeah, Microsoft will pay some money. And they'll keep fighting in the courts.

    Along the way they'll pay off European business leaders and politicians to continually pressure the courts and the judges.

    And, of course, Microsoft could be banking on something that seems to be ever-so-close to happening: the complete dissolution of the EU. Then there will be no one to pay.
  • by Strudelkugel ( 594414 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:50PM (#8638580)

    Seems to me Microsoft might as well start playing hardball here - Drop the price of an Xbox to $0, offer tracks on the new music service for $0.50, charge $10 or give away copies of Enterprise Architect, take a few high profile clients and offer huge discounts for OS and Office site licenses.

    If they don't, they will be accused of being monopolists anyway, leading to more and more fines, (just where does the money from fines go?) and more bad publicity. Since there is now a populist appeal to going after the company, they might as well create counter sentiment buy really becoming popular with consumers.

    Microsoft doesn't have a business problem - it has a political problem. Anti-trust cases are inherently political, so we shall see if they learn to play that game. I still don't believe Microsoft is any more of a monopoly than Intel, but Intel knows how to play the game.

  • by composer777 ( 175489 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @05:57PM (#8638657)
    The US military budget is greater than the next ten largest military budgets combined. I hate to burst your bubble, but the US has quite a a bit more military power than even all of the nations in the EU. Now, economically, the EU can definitely compete with the US, as is being shown by the falling value of the dollar in relation to the euro. And, if it's worth anything, I highly doubt that the US could win an all out war with the EU without annihilating the entire world in the process. So, it's not likely that we'll be invading Europe any time soon.
  • by mdfst13 ( 664665 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @06:00PM (#8638696)
    I'm pretty sure that at least one of the European Union countries is involved in Microsoft's Shared Source program. If they don't pay the fine, the European Union could seize the copyright (in lieu of payment of the fine), get a copy of the code, and sell the source code to one of their own software companies. That would presumably be worth the 500 million euros, even ignoring any other assets that may exist.

    Microsoft traditionally outsources most of their development, so there is no reason to think that the new company couldn't continue development. Possibly with the same Indian developers as are working on the Microsoft code ;)

    Maybe they will even open source it to fix the bugs :)
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 22, 2004 @06:03PM (#8638734)
    What I am curious to know is what the EU will do with all that money. While a half billion eurodollars isn't all that much to MicroSoft, it could do wonders for the software developers of the European Union, especially if it funds local development of F/OSS media formats (i.e. the codecs, players, and authoring tools).
  • Re:Typical Europeans (Score:3, Interesting)

    by spectecjr ( 31235 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @06:08PM (#8638774) Homepage
    Before you bomb us Europeans, can we please have back:
    - All your BMW and Mercedes cars

    - The jet engines from your aircraft (invented by Sir Frank Whittle in Britain in 1945)


    You seem to be under the misguided impression that Britain actually enjoys being part of Europe.

    Last time there was a poll on the matter (by The Sun), the majority of people in the UK wanted to be part of the US more than they wanted to be part of Europe.

  • by psoriac ( 81188 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @06:14PM (#8638854)
    Traffic tickets do not usually bankrupt anybody but hopefully they will get you to follow the law.

    You must not drive around Seattle much. =)

    However, this analogy is rather apt; in (Montana I believe) the cops are allowed to collect speeding tickets on the spot in the form of cash. People have taken to keeping a fifty on the dash so that they can speed through the state, and just pay the fine if they get caught (I don't blame them).

    This settlement amounts to the same thing - as long as you have the cash, keep doing what you've been doing.

  • by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @06:18PM (#8638913) Journal
    True enough but this is a traffic ticket to Bill Gates. Not a traffic ticket to you and me. It always struck me as fundamentally unfair that traffic tickets are fixed and not based on income. Simply put 100 dollars is not the same to everyone. 500 million is petty cash to MS.

    A fine should at least make it unprofitable for me to commit the crime again. If I stole 1 million and was fined 1000 then that is not exactly going to stop me is it? So how much did MS make by violating the law? More then 500 million? Then they ain't gonna stop.

  • Re:just curious (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 22, 2004 @06:18PM (#8638916)
    why would MS have to comply? Couldnt they just say 'okay, BYE' and not sell in Europe anymore? I know MS sells a lot in europe.... but who would be more injured by such a move, MS or the EU?

    A suggestion in that case: Germany, UK, France, Italy and Spain each chip in one billion euro, and with that money they buy Apple Computer. MacOS X is ported to x86 within 6 months and made open source. Lets say 200 million tax payers, that makes about 25 Euro per tax payer. Alternatively, IBM gets a contract to make LOTS of 970s, and Apple provides every government agency in Europe with eMacs at cost. I guess you could build 20 million identical eMacs at $300 each easily if you leave out everything that is non-essential.

    Bye bye, Microsoft. Bye, bye, Intel.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 22, 2004 @06:34PM (#8639175)
    OK, but do we really want to give politicians, that most organized cadre of criminals, the idea that they can raise funds by fining companines?
    If I remember my history class correctly, that was fairly common practice back in Rome, to fund the government by liquidating rich people...
  • by Grishnakh ( 216268 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @06:39PM (#8639231)
    It's not really stupid, it's arrogant. It's another sign of the extreme arrogance that Microsoft operates with. They think that just because the US allows them to get away with bad behavior that everyone else should too.

    In the real world, companies have to operate under the laws of every country they operate in. If you open up a Saudi Arabian branch of your company, you can't make advertisements there with scantily-clad women, and complain when the Religious Police shut down your operations there that these ads are allowed in the US.
  • by cmehta1 ( 88375 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @07:06PM (#8639562)
    Agreed that 500-600 million is nothing for Microsoft, but what IF they took the money and used it to fund FLOSS. Assume the govts weasel 50% off the top! That leaves 250-300 million for FLOSS.

    This is where the real damage to MS could occur, if the penalty cash is dished out to the right FLOSS projects that threatens MS directly.

    Proposed split based on what I think would help FLOSS and hurt MS:

    50million for the Linux Kernel to get their security certifications finished for govt usage, driver improvements to the kernel, SE-Linux integration, whatever else Linus wants

    50million for Apache Webserver, Tomcat, and other Apache-based projects that really eat into IIS market share

    25million for OpenOffice with a focus on compatibility with MS Office.

    25million for GNOME & KDE, split evenly on whatever they want, but with a preference on creating a Win2k-style desktop emulator so the riff-raff can change their screensavers like before

    10million for plug-ins/features into Eclipse IDE that help emulate the best features of Visual Studio, and better integration of non-Java languages like Perl, PHP, C#/Mono, etc

    10million on Bitkeeper replacement and/or Subversion to get great source code control mgmt, tied into Eclipse IDE enhancements above

    10million on modeling tools for code or databases like SQL Navigator, or Rational Rose

    10million for PHP on whatever they think they need

    10million for Wine to get us closer to running lots of apps on non-MS Operating systems

    10Million for ***BSD Flavors [Just because they have created so much with so little :) ]

    10million for RMS and GNU with the promise he wont complain about everyone else's cash allotment

    AND
    25million for an investment fund that donates 50% of the yearly profits as grants to future promising FLOSS projects

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @07:09PM (#8639593)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by whittrash ( 693570 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @07:53PM (#8640046) Journal
    The US military budget is greater than the next ten largest military budgets combined.

    CORRECTION: Once you include the cost for Iraq, the US military budget is greater than all the worlds military budgets combined. [cdi.org] The USA=$399 Billion plus the $75 to $100 billion in Iraq is to be determined; versus the rest of the world with at $463 billion.
  • US money - Europe (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Hays ( 409837 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @08:02PM (#8640117)
    I can see that the Anti MS sentiment is strong enough for everyone to overlook this, but doesn't it seem a bit unfortunate for half a billion US dollars to fly off to fill some European government treasury? I mean if this was a company we liked it might seem a bit like the EU was overstepping their bounds. Imagine if they fined Google half a billion dollars for search engine antitrust. (a bit ridiculous, but hey)

    We have pretty significant trade deficits already.

    from http://money.cnn.com/2003/02/20/news/economy/trade _deficit/

    "Exports to Western Europe slipped to the lowest level since 1997"

    "On an individual country basis, the U.S. trade deficit with Germany set a record in December at $4.1 billion, fueled by a record $6.3 billion in imports"
  • by gomel ( 527311 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @08:20PM (#8640274) Homepage Journal
    This article was actually on Worldcom but has relevant thoughts on Microsofts role. It spells out, why it makes sense for the government to punish any company for illegal/anti-competitive behaviour harshly. You tell everybody that crime does not pay off and you do not have to punish everybody that often. Indeed, the US has used that philosophy in foreign relations during the decades of the cold war.

    Friday, 5 July, 2002, 14:42 GMT 15:42 UK
    Tough bosses reap what they sowed [bbc.co.uk]

    But many critics say the tone for the aggressive business culture of the 1990s was set by the fact that Microsoft was allowed to get away with illegal bullying tactics and yet has still to be handed any punishment.

    Ellison: believes Bill Gates calculated benefits would outweigh possible penalties

    Larry Ellison, the head of the Oracle software firm, told the BBC that Bill Gates of Microsoft had calculated that the possible penalties from its aggressive illegal behaviour would be dwarfed by the gains from putting its competitor in internet browsers, Netscape, out of business.

    "Microsoft now has a monopoly on browsers," Mr Ellison said. "We know it's of huge benefit, huge value to Microsoft - will there be a corresponding offsetting penalty? Who knows? "It's like robbing the bank, getting $50bn or $100bn out of the bank and then they fine you $10,000 for having robbed the bank. "If you have a very small penalty for a very huge robbery, then from Microsoft's standpoint breaking the law turned out to work quite well."

    Many people leapt to Microsoft's defence when it was found guilty of illegal practices, arguing that the company's status as a great US success story justified leniency. Indeed, the incoming Bush administration took the pressure off the Microsoft by abandoning the efforts made by President Clinton's officials to break up the Bill Gates empire.

    But in making that decision, President Bush may have left himself open to charges that he was indicating a willingness to tolerate an arrogant and bullying business culture that appears to have played a key role in the shocking financial scandals that have emerged in the past year.
  • by AvantLegion ( 595806 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @09:41PM (#8640862) Journal
    ... people say "oh, it's chump change."

    Well, chump change adds up.

    Add this money to the payouts that have come before it, and the ones that will come in the future.

  • by shaitand ( 626655 ) * on Monday March 22, 2004 @10:03PM (#8641032) Journal
    That's all fine and dandy but you shouldn't profit from breaking the law (ideally ever) particulary when caught and convicted. If Microsoft made 1 trillion dollars by breaking the law, the MINIMUM fine for the crime should be 1 trillion 1, whether that bankrupts microsoft or not is irrelevant.

    And the real number is more like 100billion, which would be a reasonable fine, they simple lose the profit they made breaking the law. Having already spent some of their illgotten gains is their own problem. Now 100billion of course wouldn't bankrupt microsoft who already has something to the tune of 80billion in cash reserves. But it would cause them to have to restructure and liquidate assets, it would be a blow to their buisness but not a death blow. A mere 600mil isn't even a sneeze.

    If I make $10/minute, and save 10minutes by speeding to work, that's $100. Now lets say I get a ticket everyday for $50 (this is showing a concept, dont' pull out the anal details like the time it takes to get the ticket). I'm still profiting by $50/day by breaking the law. As long as I come out ahead, why the hell would I stop?

    This is more like a tax than a fine, the EU is saying they want a cut.
  • by Lairdsville ( 600242 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @10:17PM (#8641125)
    I would love to see the fine being spend on OSS, but this brings up an interesting conundrum. Microsoft is being fined for giving away software, yet you want to spend the fine on OSS projects who are also giving away software. Hmmmm, my brain hurts.
  • by Jaysyn ( 203771 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @11:40PM (#8641562) Homepage Journal
    Please understand how unbelievibly far Europe was to most Americans during the 40's & how much we didn't want to get back into another "Great War" 2000 miles away. *That we had very little (nothing to your average joe) to do with*.

    Europe could have just as well been Mars to most people back then.

    This is probably going to sound trollish but, most Americans still have the mindset that "These people can't take care of themselves, so we have to do it for them." They've been given little reason to think otherwise.

    Jaysyn

  • by cmehta1 ( 88375 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @01:53AM (#8642329)
    Can't believe I forgot Samba.

    Samba needs 25 million for compatibility testing, tight integration with OpenLDAP, a nice hand-holding GUI install, slick GUI to manage users, groups, printers, etc like Win2K networks, and Active Directory replacement (hence the OpenLDAP integration request).
  • Re:Oh, please... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @03:52AM (#8642760)
    the average east timorese has suffered much more death and bloodshed, massacres in indonesia and east-timor was made possible by us and uk support for general suharto. when >500k people was murdered in indonesia for being "communists" or "communist sympathisers", uk and us intelligence said that it was "good for their interests".during the massacre in east-timor at late 70's us and other western newspapers didn't wrote anything about it, because it was not in interests of political and economical leaders. whole conflict in indonesia started when elected president sukarno stated that local forests and resources belonged to local people, rather than big western companies. however, sukarno tried to be independent between the soviet union and usa, but cia tried to assasinate him. after that he gave more sympathy to communists (they didn't want him to die). uk and us wanted sukarno out of power, and when suharto took power, western governments were happy. no one knows how many people died in "cleanings" of suharto. estimations vary from 500k to 3 millions. but our peace loving western "democracies" thought it was a good thing because now we were able to do business as we wanted. newspapers didn't write about it, because it's not good for people to know what their "leaders" are doing. long live the freedom and democracy - yeah, right. i think it's stupid to compare that which one is better - europe or usa. both are same shit in slightly different package, and both should be replaced by a system that at least have some sense. and i am not a state communist. i think soviet union was one of the biggest mistakes being made. it was pure dictatorship, only difference between nazis and state communists were that state communists claimed to be on "workers side". what a joke.

Arithmetic is being able to count up to twenty without taking off your shoes. -- Mickey Mouse

Working...