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Microsoft Caldera Government The Courts News

Halloween X Author Mike Anderer Speaks Out 424

cdlu writes "Mike Anderer, author of the now-famous Halloween X document, has spoken out at NewsForge. Among the highlights is a prediction by Mr. Anderer that Microsoft has many more disruptive lawsuits planned up their sleeves."
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Halloween X Author Mike Anderer Speaks Out

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  • by PimpBot ( 32046 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:13AM (#8551307) Homepage
    Since the GPL type license agreements push the liability to the users, who do you go after?


    What exactly does he mean by this? Traditional EULAs push liability onto the user as well.

    • by linuxislandsucks ( 461335 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:16AM (#8551324) Homepage Journal
      he measn he faisl to graps what copyright law is.. no end user has liability for an author of a work infringe on someone's else work
    • by AndroidCat ( 229562 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:34AM (#8551389) Homepage
      Not true! In Microsoft's EULA, they'll pay off on any proven liability .. up to $10 or the cost of the product. :^P
    • by bunhed ( 208100 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:38AM (#8551406)
      Oh c'mon, M$ is always covering my ass everytime I lose data, crash, re-install, get a virus, let a spammer in, end with up an incompatable version... yep, M$ is always behind me, everytime I bend over.
    • EULAs do deny responsibility for pretty much anything. But a court could still throw that disclaimer away in egregious cases, and there's a profitable company to suck money from in a civil case. That's missing in most Open Source projects.

      But what really bothers me is that people seem to want somebody to hold liable and yet don't want to pay. There is no "contract" of purchase under which somebody should be held liable with Open Source. If you want somebody to hold liable, you need to pay. If you pai

    • by wrecked ( 681366 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:30PM (#8551933)
      From the context of his statement, I believe he's talking about patent infringement, not copyright infringement.

      However, he is mistaken that "GPL type licence agreements push the liablity to the users." The GPL specifically puts the patent onus on the code contributor.

      As far as end-user liability goes, I fail to see the difference between the GPL and the EULAs of closed software. While GPL projects are certainly vulnerable, there have already been significant successful patent infringement claims against closed software that may affect the end-users of that software.

      For example, Timeline recently won [com.com] a patent infringement suit [theage.com.au] against Microsoft that potentially could require licencing royalties from developers and even end-users of SQL Server [eweek.com].

      There is also Eolas' successful suit against Microsoft for Internet Explorer, which Anderer refers to.

      BTW, when Anderer says that MSFT has 50 patent lawsuits waiting in the queue, I read that as saying Microsoft will be the defendant in those suits.

      • by k_head ( 754277 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @03:50PM (#8553222)
        Look he is wrong about a lot of things.

        He is wrong about the GPL. He confuses the GPL with "public domain". He feels that you "have to go after somebody". That last one is quite disturbing actually. Why do you have to go after somebody.

        This guy is an evil idiot. All he talks about is how great he is and how busy he is and how he knows so much and how us little old peons don't know what's really going on.

        Listen. If open source means guys like this will make less money then that's reason enough to support open source. If this guy is representitive of the enemies of open source then then we should have no problems convincing people to adopt open source.

        Just point to his letter and say "see you don't want guys like this running the world do you?"
  • by Featureless ( 599963 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:13AM (#8551312) Journal
    I just know I'm going to get every partisan in the place foamed up by saying this, but the Clinton DOJ was actually pursuing the MS antitrust case, and the Bush people dropped it like a hot rock.

    IANAL but I know the industry, and so do most of you. Let's be realistic. MS basically got off with a "please don't do it again, OK?"

    And then they immediately started doing it again.

    The only way in the long run to stop this "compete with anything but quality and price" attitude is for the government to finally enforce the antitrust law. And that may only happen if you all vote .

    The Bush people seem perfectly happy with the Microsoft status quo. So, process of elimination...
    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:20AM (#8551341)
      So who should I vote for?

      Its not as if the Clinton DOJ hasnt had its share of questionable policy.
      • A candidate who would take big business to task? Easy... Ralph Nader.
    • Our government doesn't have time to deal with minor annoyances like MS. They have rights to abolish and wars to start.

      Bush deserves a lot more than being voted out of office. IMO, he's earned the right to be the first person to land a Navy jet on the Sun.
    • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:36AM (#8551398)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • by lunenburg ( 37393 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:53AM (#8551442) Homepage
        The problem is now, there isn't a reasonable tech saavy person around who can argue that Windows still has a monopoly hold on any market. Linux is an equal or superior product in every possible way, without exception, without question, period. There is nothing MS can do to stop its growth, and its plain as fact for everyone to see. MS is fighting a holding battle as of now. And any future action would require first that MS be proven a current monopoly. Between Linux, MacOSX, and misc. products, it is MOST highly unlikely that MS would face any significant challenge.

        This isn't necessarily directed to you, but to a misconception I've seen over and over again.

        You don't have to have 100% market share to have a monopoly.

        That's not me talking - that's the US Supreme Court. Just because Linux and MacOS exist doesn't negate the fact that Microsoft has a monopoly on desktop computer operating systems. True, one could argue that they do not have a monopoly in the server room, but they still have one on the desktop. And they use that desktop monopoly to try to extend their reach into other areas, which is what ran them afoul of antitrust laws.

        Part of having a monopoly in an area is that you get to dictate the terms in that area. Aside from the Mac, which does not by its existance negate the desktop monopoly, Microsoft names the terms by which the desktop market operates. Their browser quirks define what an acceptable webpage is, not standards. Their document formats define what people use in the office. Their media formats, increasingly, define what people listen to.

        That's their monopoly. Not the fact that Joe Hacker runs KDE at home.
        • by Masem ( 1171 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:06AM (#8551494)
          Not only is it important that MS is recognized to have a monopoly, but that there is nothing legally wrong with having a monopoly as long as you are playing fair in the market and maintain the monopoly without interferring in the market. However, once you try to use your monopoly position to prevent entry to the market or to squeeze others out of it, or otherwise use the monopoly position to maintain that position, then it's considered to be a illegal practice, which is what the cruft of the MS trial was about.
          • by beeblebrox87 ( 234597 ) <slashdot.alexander@co@tz> on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:43PM (#8552282)
            IANAL, but actually, strictly speaking, just having a monopoly (without special government licensing and regulation) is still a felony.

            USC Title 15, Chapter 1, Section 2: Monopolizing trade a felony; penalty


            Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be punished by fine not exceeding $10,000,000 if a corporation, or, if any other person, $350,000, or by imprisonment not exceeding three years, or by both said punishments, in the discretion of the court


            This is rarely enforced, however, as such cases often end up being very difficult and time-consuming to prosecute (e.g. see US vs. Alcoa, 1945). The law has, however, been upheld by courts in the past, notably in US vs. Standard Oil (1911) and US vs. DuPont (1956).
        • Wikipedia (Score:3, Informative)

          by LuSiDe ( 755770 )
          Quoting Wikipedia Monopoly [wikipedia.org]:

          In economics, a monopoly (from the Greek monos, one + polein, to sell) is defined as a market situation where there is only one provider of a product or service. Monopoly should be distinguished from monopsony, in which there is only one buyer of the product or service. It should also, strictly, be distinguished from the (closely related) phenomenon of a cartel (which is a type of oligopoly), in which a centralized institution is set up to (partially) coordinate the actions of s
      • by tepples ( 727027 ) <tepples.gmail@com> on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:01AM (#8551476) Homepage Journal

        Linux is an equal or superior product in every possible way, without exception

        Even with respect to driver support for more recent desktop peripherals? My scanner didn't come with a SANE driver on its CD, and there exists no such driver in SANE CVS either.

        • by FauxPasIII ( 75900 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:21AM (#8551575)
          > Even with respect to driver support for more recent desktop peripherals? My scanner didn't
          > come with a SANE driver on its CD, and there exists no such driver in SANE CVS either.

          Rather than just stating that it doesn't, think about why it doesn't. Is
          it because of the technical superiority of Windows? Or the superior innovation
          coming out of Microsoft? Do you think they wrote all those drivers themselves?

          Or, is it because the Windows monopoly is, like most monopolies, self-perpetuating?
          Since they have the monopoly, not only do the realities of the market make it
          more likely that Scanners, Inc. will write a Windows driver before, or perhaps
          to the exclusion of all others; it also means that Microsoft is in a position to
          illegally abuse their monopoly by REQUIRING that Scanners, Inc. play by MS's
          rules if they want their scanner to work on Windows at all.

          The playing field is not level at all, as should be obvious. Vendors bend over
          backwards to make their devices work within the bizarro world that is Windows.
          Counterwise, most of them expend no effort whatsoever, often denying even
          basic documentation that would cost them nothing to provide, to the development
          of Linux drivers. The very existence of drivers for ANY sufficiently complex
          devices is a small miracle, and should be taken as testament to the innate superiority
          of Linux and her developers.

          Once the Windows stranglehold is broken, just you sit back and watch what Linux
          turns into when the playing field is leveled.
          • Rather than just stating that it doesn't, think about why it doesn't. Is
            it because of the technical superiority of Windows? Or the superior innovation
            coming out of Microsoft? Do you think they wrote all those drivers themselves?


            They did for a huge chunk of the earlier drivers, yes. IIRC, Windows 95's drivers were initially all written by Microsoft - or at least a huge chunk of them were.
        • Hardware Support (Score:4, Informative)

          by RAMMS+EIN ( 578166 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:17PM (#8551846) Homepage Journal
          Hardware support is the _worst_ thing to argue for Windows being better than Linux. Linux support far more hardware than Windows, just consider all those architectures that Linux runs on and Windows doesn't.

          Also, many drivers in Linux are actually written by people who actually maintain them, meaning that if your peripheral is supported in 2.2, it's likely to also be supported in 2.4, 2.6, and future versions. Contrast this with Windows where devices can and do become useless when new and incompatible Windows versions come out, and some drivers won't be ported to the newer version, whereas other things won't be released for earlier versions -- you must upgrade to use the new functionality, but that means you can't use your old device anymore.

          I have a dream that one day, hardware manufacturers will actually care to support a plurality of operating systems, either by shipping drivers for various systems (this is already happening to some extent), or, preferably by releasing specifications (which used to happen in the past) or standardizing interfaces at hardware level (I think many USB devices do this). Or they might embed platform-independent drivers in firmware, a la OpenFirmware. I think this dream might just come true when the operating system monoculture is broken.
      • by IamTheRealMike ( 537420 ) * on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:02AM (#8551482)
        The problem is now, there isn't a reasonable tech saavy person around who can argue that Windows still has a monopoly hold on any market.

        No offence, but what mad weed are you smoking? Windows isn't a monopoly even though it runs roughly 95% of desktop computers?

        You don't have to have 100% marketshare to be a monopoly. Simply saying "now there is an alternative, kind of, for some people, if they're willing to do complex and expensive migrations means Windows doesn't have a monopoly" is one of the most incredible pieces of doublethink I've seen for along time.

      • by Anonymous Coward
        "And, to be fair as well, there is a high likelihood that the anti-trust action was brought as a political move, rather than one based on law. "

        Have you actually read the ENTIRE anti-trust trial transcript? Ok....maybe I have no life, but I DID read it. No intelligent person could have read that transcript and not derived from it the fact that Microsoft is one of the most corrupt, deceitful, predatory, and ILLEGAL monopolies ever in existance.

        "There is another aspect you might have missed. The DOJ wa
    • by dbc001 ( 541033 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:45AM (#8551421)
      I think it's time to start calling your local attorneys general and suggest that they work on anti-trust proceedings against microsoft again. am i correct in assuming that these sorts of actions start at the attorneys general? my impression is that some of these guys are actually out to defend us, so if we give them a barrage of phone calls maybe they will look into it. Here's where you can get some contact info. [pinellas.fl.us]
    • by The Tyro ( 247333 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:00AM (#8551474)
      Just offhand, I'd guess there's much larger fish on GWBush's grill than the microsoft case.

      Let's look at this from a larger perspective: the economy is just beginning to recover from the tech bust (not really bush's doing; presidents don't control the economy), there's a war and reconstruction effort going on, there's the ongoing hunt for terrorists, it's an election year... and you want Bush to focus on Microsoft?

      Microsoft has the money, and we all know that politicians can be bought... John Kerry has certainly taken his share of special interest money over the years. So who would you have us vote for? Nader? (let's be realistic... he has no chance of winning).

      Listen, if you want to take shots at Bush... have at it... that's practically required here at Slashdot. However, let's also be realistic about the bigger picture, and the lack of palatable alternatives. Kerry's no prize.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:38AM (#8551662)
        You're right - and another poster made the same point. Money has a lot to do with politics. All I am pointing out is that there appears to be a lesser evil. Or look at it my way: when they screw up, just keep voting the bastards out... better to keep spinning the wheel than give up! If you believe our chances with Kerry might be better - even microscopically better is enough to justify it.

        It's a big government. It took political attention span to stop the antitrust case, not the other way around.

        Monopolies are terrible for the economy. Showing you're serious about economic policy might be very good for a sitting president with problems like Bush.

        You can make criticism of Bush look like a reflex on Slashdot, the same way everyone paints the readership as Linux zealots or anti-Microsoft... But pardon me for being blunt, I call it rude and ignorant.

        It seems to annoy people when a group develops a consensus on something - even when they are correct. Even when what they disapprove of is particularly egregious. Microsoft doesn't deserve scorn, here or wherever thinking people discuss things? Hello? SCO?

        You know what you sound like to me? "If you want to take shots at Hitler... have at it... that's practically required here at soc.culture.jewish."

        And we, on Slashdot, should be called "partisan" (or the same implied) as if the political developments of the last 4 years don't suitably justify it?

        Sorry, just have to get that off my chest. Snidely poking at a consensus opinion (without appearing to worry on wether it's correct) just makes you look ignorant. Say why you think Bush gets short shrift, if you feel differently.

        Don't you think there's a reason people here (and in general anywhere people are more educated than average) dislike Bush?
      • Kerry? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Ender Ryan ( 79406 )
        Kerry's no prize.

        To be perfectly honest, I really haven't been paying enough attention to politics lately.

        All I know about Kerry is that he appears to be more "intelligent" than Bush when he's jabbering on TV, ie. he's more articulate, but I don't know what he stands for.

        I don't mean to pick on you, specifically, but since you stated, "Kerry's no prize," could you tell me why that is?

        I don't particularly like the Democratic party, but neither do I like the Republican party. I would toss out another

      • The main problems with Bush are:

        1. He lied in order to drag our country into war (with Iraq) that has cost of almost a hundred billion dollars and will most likely cost billions more. It also resulted in over 10 thousand deaths, far more than Osama's kill count. Just imagine if Bush decided to convince the country to put hundreds of billions of dollars into rewiring our telecom infustructure with fiber to the curb? We would be having a dot-com boom that would make the 90s look like nothing!

        2. His and h
  • by IgD ( 232964 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:16AM (#8551321)
    The Slashdot story seems to claim that Microsoft has many more lawsuits planned. Here is the paragraph that I think the author was referring to:

    In a world where there are $500 million dollar patent infringement lawsuits imposed on OS companies (although this is not completely settled yet), how would somebody like Red Hat compete when 6 months ago they only had $80-$90 million in cash? At that point they could not even afford to settle a fraction of a single judgment without devastating their shareholders. I suspect Microsoft may have 50 or more of these lawsuits in the queue. All of them are not asking for hundreds of millions, but most would be large enough to ruin anything but the largest companies. Red Hat did recently raise several hundred million which certainly gives them more staying power. Ultimately, I do not think any company except a few of the largest companies can offer any reasonable insulation to their customers from these types of judgments. You would need a market cap of more than a couple billion to just survive in the OS space.

    I read this to mean that Microsoft has a queue of 50 frivoulous lawsuits against itself not that Microsoft is planning 50 lawsuits against other people.

    At any rate, Anderer's comments are devoid of any substance. Someone at Microsoft/SCO probably wrote the memo for him or he just copy and pasted talking points into his response.
    • Re:it seems to me (Score:4, Insightful)

      by platypussrex ( 594064 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:28AM (#8551363)
      that he is making the tacit assumption that many of these lawsuits have merit, and that much of the liability is real. Perhaps some do, but the large majority are nothing more than extortion and should be dealt with in a summary fashion.

      A few judges with some testicular fortitude will solve the problem much more quickly than a thousand companies raising the price of their software in order to pay all the lawyers who are helping muddy the waters.
  • Misconstrued (Score:5, Informative)

    by Ralph Yarro ( 704772 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:17AM (#8551329) Homepage
    He doesn't say "that Microsoft has many more disruptive lawsuits planned up their sleeves", he says that Microsoft have a great many lawsuits queued up AGAINST them. His perspective is evidently that you can only survive in the operating systems market if you can stand up against the sort of litigation that Microsoft has to. I don't think his point is a very good one but let's not pretend that it was something else entirely.
    • Re:Misconstrued (Score:3, Interesting)

      by B'Trey ( 111263 )
      No. He's clearly saying that he believes MS has 50 or more lawsuits that it will back, directly or indirectly, in an attempt to discredit or slow the adoption of FOSS. It doesn't matter if the cases have merit. Most experts see little merit in SCO's case but the FUD IS affecting FOSS. It's costing FOSS companies money to defend against it, and it's making some ITO's pause and at least think about the wisdom of switching to FOSS. That's all MS wants, and it doesn't need a lot of merit in the cases; just

      • You're both wrong. Or at least, prose-wise, the whole dynamic of his message has been transformed by your attempts to narrow his statements to a specific implication context-wise. This isn't about narrowing. This isn't about context. This is about limitless possibilities for vissioning the implications without giving it to the growning dependence on actual meaning.

        Look at his resume--all of the important companies that aren't trying to hide the fact--and have never tried to hide the fact--that he may

      • Re:Misconstrued (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Tim Macinta ( 1052 ) *

        No. He's clearly saying that he believes MS has 50 or more lawsuits that it will back

        I think that he's actually talking about Microsoft defending against 50 or more lawsuits, or at least being ambiguous about it. Look at how he starts the paragraph:

        In a world where there are $500 million dollar patent infringement lawsuits imposed on OS companies (although this is not completely settled yet), how would somebody like Red Hat compete when 6 months ago they only had $80-$90 million in cash? At that po

        • Re:Misconstrued (Score:3, Insightful)

          by nathanh ( 1214 )

          It sounds to me like he's talking about the Eolas suit against Microsoft in the first sentence. He leads off talking about how Microsoft has needed to defend its turf because of the nature of the OS business, says that RedHat would be crushed by a judgment of the same kind which Microsoft was handed (the fine was $500M), and then points out that the Eolas suit is not unique and that Microsoft faces suits like that quite frequently. That would seem to be how the sentence was meant given the lead-in, but ma

  • RTFA!!! (Score:4, Informative)

    by wjsteele ( 255130 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:22AM (#8551344)
    Did you even read the article? He didn't say that Microsoft had 50 "disruptive lawsuits" up their sleeves... he said that Microsoft is going to face 50 lawsuits from people sueing them. His point was that someone smaller, like RedHat couldn't withstand that kind of judgement against them because of their limited resources.

    Bill
  • The "new" model? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dukerobillard ( 582741 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:26AM (#8551357)
    The world of software is changing.... It used to be you included R&D and patent development costs into your license add your costs and a markup and you could make a living. We relied on cross-licensing, licensing, and innovation, and our ability to prevent other people from copying our work without permission. Now things are shifting, but I am not certain anybody has completely figured out this new model, and if you think it is just any one company that is concerned about this, you are wrong.

    Hmmm...maybe it'll go back to the way it was before people could get rich on software. That's what RMS was originally after, all those years ago

  • by Saven Marek ( 739395 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:27AM (#8551359)
    Did anyone else read this interview and get the feeling that Anderer spoke a lot but didn't really say anything specific or all that relevant?

    nude mac desktops [67.160.223.119]
    • by Ralph Yarro ( 704772 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:42AM (#8551415) Homepage
      Did anyone else read this interview and get the feeling that Anderer spoke a lot but didn't really say anything specific or all that relevant?

      Yes. My favorite is:

      "I helped build the channels for most of the products that corporate America is currently using and some they will be using soon."

      So he builds "channels". To quote Benjy mouse [hhgproject.org] "Sounds very significant without actually tying you down to meaning anything."
  • by Featureless ( 599963 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:28AM (#8551368) Journal
    Lot of "I'm a clever entrepeneur" doublespeak, backing up the fact that he:

    • Thinks Software Patents are a great business model
    • Believes barratry will be the driving force in the OS industry's "renaissance."


    What an asshole.
  • RHat Cash on Hand. (Score:3, Informative)

    by DAldredge ( 2353 ) <SlashdotEmail@GMail.Com> on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:28AM (#8551370) Journal
    Red Hat, Inc. Prices $500 Million of 0.50% Convertible Senior Debentures Due 2024

    RALEIGH, N.C., Jan 6, 2004 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Red Hat, Inc. (Nasdaq: RHAT) today announced the pricing of $500 million aggregate principal amount of 0.50% Convertible Senior Debentures due 2024, which are being issued in a private offering.

    The debentures are being sold at 100% of their principal amount. The sale of the debentures is expected to close on January 12, 2004, subject to customary closing conditions. The initial purchaser has an option to purchase up to an additional $100 million aggregate principal amount of the debentures. The debentures will be Red Hat_s senior unsecured obligations and will be subordinated in right of payment to all of its existing and future secured debt. Red Hat expects to use the net proceeds for general corporate purposes, including possible acquisitions of complementary businesses and technologies and the expansion of its international operations.

    The debentures will bear interest at a rate of 0.50% per annum, payable on each January 15 and July 15, beginning on July 15, 2004. The debentures will mature on January 15, 2024, unless earlier converted, redeemed by Red Hat at its option or repurchased by Red Hat at the option of the holders. Each $1,000 principal amount of the debentures will be initially convertible under certain circumstances into 39.0753 shares of Red Hat common stock. Therefore, the debentures are convertible in the aggregate into approximately 19,537,650 shares of Red Hat common stock, or approximately 23,445,180 shares of Red Hat common stock if the initial purchaser exercises its option to purchase additional debentures in full. The conversion rate is equivalent to a conversion price of approximately $25.59 per share, subject to adjustment. This represents approximately a 37% conversion premium based on the last reported bid price of $18.68 of Red Hat common stock on January 6, 2004. The debentures will be redeemable by Red Hat beginning in January 2009 and investors will have the right to require Red Hat to repurchase the debentures in January 2009, 2014 and 2019 and upon certain repurchase events.

    The debentures have been offered only to qualified institutional buyers in reliance on Rule 144A under the Securities Act of 1933, as amended. The debentures and the shares of Red Hat common stock issuable upon the conversion of the debentures have not been registered under the Securities Act and may not be offered or sold in the United States or to a U.S. person absent registration or an applicable exemption from registration requirements.

    This press release does not constitute an offer to sell or the solicitation of an offer to buy any security and shall not constitute an offer, solicitation or sale in any jurisdiction in which such offering would be unlawful.

    About Red Hat

    Red Hat is the world's leading provider of open source solutions to the enterprise. Red Hat is headquartered in Raleigh, N.C. and has offices worldwide.

    Forward-looking Statements

    Statements in this press release that are not historical facts and that relate to future plans or events are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These forward-looking statements include Red Hat_s intention to raise proceeds through the offering and sale of convertible senior debentures, the intended use of proceeds and the anticipated terms of such debentures. There can be no assurance that Red Hat will complete the offering on the anticipated terms or at all. Red Hat_s ability to complete the offering will depend, among other things, on market conditions. Red Hat_s actual results could differ materially from those projected or forecasted in the forward-looking statements. These include uncertainties relating to market conditions for corporate debt securities in general and our debentures in particular, as well as other factors identified in Red Hat_s most recent Quarterly Report on Form 10-Q filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

    SOURCE: Red Hat, Inc.

    Red Hat, Inc.
    Gabriel Szulik, 919-754-3700 ext. 44439
    gszulik@redhat.com
  • by m00nun1t ( 588082 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:30AM (#8551376) Homepage
    The article doesn't say anything about
    "Microsoft has many more disruptive lawsuits planned up their sleeves".

    It talk about lawsuits against Microsoft. RTFA:
    "In a world where there are $500 million dollar patent infringement lawsuits imposed on OS companies ... I suspect Microsoft may have 50 or more of these lawsuits in the queue."

    And further, how many lawsuits has Microsoft initiated (except piracy, which is justified IMHO)? There are probably some, but off the top of my head I can't think of a single one. They aren't the multi-headed legal beast attacking all over the place the /. "editors" would portray them to be.

    /. credibility: -1

    • by Mr. Darl McBride ( 704524 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:58AM (#8551465)
      And further, how many lawsuits has Microsoft initiated (except piracy, which is justified IMHO)? There are probably some, but off the top of my head I can't think of a single one. They aren't the multi-headed legal beast attacking all over the place the /. "editors" would portray them to be.

      Up until the mid 90s, Microsoft hadn't initiated a single lawsuit against anybody. If memory serves, the first lawsuit involved one of the larger distributors of bogus Microsoft software, so even that was fairly benign. This is not a litigation-happy company.

      That said, they have started to wrap some pretty evil licenses around all technical information disseminated about Windows, its SDKs and technical papers. Furthermore, they're starting to layer gratuitous DRM over the new MS Office file formats even where it doesn't make sense, leaving room to invoke the DMCA when people make Office file format importers/exporters.

      MS salespeople have started to tell shops migrating to Linux that there would be "legal issues" preventing Linux from interoperating with future versions of Windows. There may well be a sea change in Microsoft's tactics ahead, or the salesmen may be talking through their hats. Either way, MS is starting to build up an arsenal of twisted legal manipulation every bit as formidable as IBM's patent arsenal.

  • by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:30AM (#8551378) Homepage Journal
    Choice quote from the article:
    In a world where there are $500 million dollar patent infringement lawsuits imposed on OS companies (although this is not completely settled yet), how would somebody like Red Hat compete when 6 months ago they only had $80-$90 million in cash? At that point they could not even afford to settle a fraction of a single judgment without devastating their shareholders. I suspect Microsoft may have 50 or more of these lawsuits in the queue. All of them are not asking for hundreds of millions, but most would be large enough to ruin anything but the largest companies. Red Hat did recently raise several hundred million which certainly gives them more staying power. Ultimately, I do not think any company except a few of the largest companies can offer any reasonable insulation to their customers from these types of judgments. You would need a market cap of more than a couple billion to just survive in the OS space.

    This attitude is wrong at SO many levels. New players can't enter the OS space NOT because they will have to compete against marketing schemes/ad campaigns of a richer company BUT because they'll be sued into oblivion by the competition.

    It is being assumed here that a company with $85 million in the bank won't be able to survive because they don't have money to survive a LAWSUIT...the quality of their products/service/innovation apparently doesn't even enter the equation anywhere.

    litiguous fucking bastards [sco.com]

    • This is probably the doomsday scenario for linux... We in the OSS community have been saying, "Linux is good, linux is the revolution, linux is freedom and freedom is inevitable. Besides, what can MS do?" And now we have the answer to that question.

      The problem with the legal system is it's stacked against the small guy from start to finish. This is how it's stacked: Consequences. There are *NO* consequences for setting out to ruin somebody. None whatsoever. What are the consequences for MS and SCO

  • I don't know this guy at all, but just a suggestion that it's probably not a fair idea to character assassinate him: the guy seems just to be a wheeler/dealer and "caught in the middle" of something between MS and SCO.
    • by zzabur ( 611866 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:47AM (#8551427)

      Perhaps being an (ex-)man of SCO and a friend of Darl McBride (in case he has real friends) is enough for many of us. But there is more in it. If you actually read the article, you will find plenty of reasons to consider this guy a major asshole. Here is a short list:

      • He fails completely to understand what the free software and open source movements are all about.
      • He seems to think that filing totally meritless bogus lawsuits to be bought out is a fair and legitimate business model.
      • He says that small companies like Redhat have no place in software business, as they cannot pay the protection money to the SCO mafia.
      • Based on the points above, he considers himself a true visionary.
      • Yet he seems to think that all the people who actually wrote the software in question, don't have any reason to disagree with his/SCO's vision to get payout for the work they didn't do.
      • Very true. Look at how he intoduced himself and we can see what kind of dude he is.

        Most of my time is currently spent on new technologies on several different platforms.

        Read: I don't know shit. When someone is foolish enough to consult me I'll give them some buzzwords and get away with it.

        Many of my companies and several of our offices have been merged into other companies, moved or sold as part of a technology deal, some even sold during the deepest parts of the downturn.

        Read: Companies I worked
      • by laird ( 2705 )
        This "interview" was amazing. With any luck it will establish that this guy is a buffoon.

        Most striking was the self-aggrandizing hot air about how many wonderful "channels" and "patents" he's created. If he's that wonderful, you'd think that someone would have heard of him, or that he could name any major deal he's done.

        I particularly liked him arguing that a "small company" like Red Hat doesn't have the resources to stay in the OS business because they only had a few $100M in the bank, ignoring the compa
  • by robslimo ( 587196 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:33AM (#8551386) Homepage Journal
    Do you recall reading that leaked memo (Halloween X [opensource.org])? A lot of us doubted its authenticity in light of the atrocious spelling and grammar.

    For this article, ol' Mikey must have used a spell checker. Heck, given his grammar problems, he must have had someone proofread it for him. Hmmm, ghostwriter?

  • I'm RTFAing... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MyHair ( 589485 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:35AM (#8551391) Journal
    The first two sentences are already setting off my bullshit alarm.

    I will file close to 20 patents this year for companies in many spaces, including homeland security, anti-terrorism,

    He's trying to build himself up and throw in sympathetic issues. But he's doing it the wrong way to the wrong audience I think.

    (I'm not saying he didn't do those things, but when somebody starts like that they're usually about to feed you some bullshit.)

    Anyway, off to read the rest...
  • Is he ashamed? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by polemistes ( 739905 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:36AM (#8551396) Homepage

    I get the feeling this man has a bitter taste in his mouth writing this. It's as if he's declaring to all the world: 'I did all this!', so that he can tell himself that he can stand by his actions, and convince himself that he's not feeling guilty.

    It's the voice of hypocrisy.

    Although I have more sympathy for this kind of hidden guilt, than for the greed and stupidity I have heard in many voices lately.

  • by burgburgburg ( 574866 ) <splisken06NO@SPAMemail.com> on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:39AM (#8551407)
    personally tend to sue over these sorts of things. Does this mean that they're going to start openly funding their SCO strawman to keep the lawsuit queue filled with bogus IP claims for years to come? How will the Justice Department feel about this behavior from a company that has already been civilly judged to be a monopolist?

    Oh wait, I forgot who's in charge of the "Justice" Department: wrist slap, settlement, look the other way. Never mind.

  • by fw3 ( 523647 ) * on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:40AM (#8551413) Homepage Journal
    Anderer:
    "it does not take an MIT rocket scientist to think it would make sense for the largest software company in the world to increase their rights by taking another license"

    This is all I can really give you considering the NDA. As for the PIPE deal, I cannot comment at all, but I also would have nothing of interest to add beyond what has already been made public.

    I will file close to 20 patents this year for companies in many spaces [mars?]

    Anderer's patents:
    6,546,418 Method for managing printed medium activated revenue sharing domain name system schemas

    6,448,979 Printed medium activated interactive communication of multimedia information, including advertising
    6,314,457 Method for managing printed medium activated revenue sharing domain name system schemas
    This 'article' is just barely better-written than Halloween X itself, no doubt this is the guy (and hey, there's open-source in action, he writes in (marginally) better style when he knows it's gonna be read by people who actually know about style(1) and diction(1)).

    Anyhow, great, he's worked for SCO under NDA, he's got a lot of Darl-like bombast about economic justification for his actions.

    He *thinks* he's a rocket scientist (mostly people who say 'it's not rocket science' do think this :-).

    He's writing junk patents, apparently for people who haven't figured out that the .com bubble has burst.

  • Summary (Score:5, Interesting)

    by xcomputer_man ( 513295 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @10:50AM (#8551432) Homepage
    - I have filed more patents and owned/managed more businesses than you can think of. This deal was a microscopic, ultimately forgettable fraction of my business.

    - I have nothing to say about the money Microsoft funneled to SCO (my excuse is that they won't let me).

    - Everybody licenses Unix and they've been doing so for years. SCO as a licensor is only executing a rational business decision based on current market trends. Microsoft bought SCO licenses for SFU just like everybody else has been doing for years, there's nothing wrong with it.

    - Microsoft is actually cooperating with you Linux guys with their SFU. They're good guys!

    - The GPL makes IP matters confusing, and we have to leave it to the big companies like Sun and SCO to figure it out for the rest of us. They might even be kind enough to give it all away for free!

    - Red Hat is still a bunch of small boys. Do you really think this johnny-just-come company with a few hundred million in the bank can actually indemnify its customers from the devastating effects of a settlement? They will be obliterated in no time! Better leave it to the big guys (Sun, MS, SCO...).

    - We used to have all this crap figured out with patents and cross-licensing and stuff. You GPL people came around and messed up the whole thing, and now we're trying to clean up your mess. Stop making noise and let's clean this whole thing up for you.

    - Why is everyone picking on me? I've done a lot of good stuff, and nobody says anything about that!

    [Wow. I have to give this guy an award for managing to say so little in so many words.]
  • Too good to be true? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Rick Zeman ( 15628 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:03AM (#8551487)
    I helped build the channels for most of the products that corporate America is currently using and some they will be using soon. In several cases, I am finally finding or developing ways to solve problems I have been working on for the last 20 years. The only way I can hide is to work so hard that it becomes close to impossible to track all the companies I have owned, bought, sold, rolled up, or sat on the board of. If you include the ones where I helped entrepreneurs and companies through tough times, or sat on non-profit boards, the list would be even tougher to follow.

    Modest lad, isn't he? I'm always suspicious about people who feel the need to have such a self-serving description...as there's usually snake oil to follow.
  • he doesn't get 'it' (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mojoNYC ( 595906 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:12AM (#8551522) Homepage

    this sentence reveals the author's bias:

    Nobody wants to be the ultimate guarantor for software that was free (or close to it).

    that's free as in beer, not speech--why is this so hard for $uit$ to understand?

    although, given the state of the union, we may be coming to this:

    Nobody wants to be the ultimate guarantor for speech that was free (or close to it).;>

  • Innocent my ass (Score:5, Insightful)

    by theolein ( 316044 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:16AM (#8551545) Journal
    This interview left me boiling. It is so full of Microsoft PR and empty nothingness that there can be just no way thta this guy is not in this up to his ears.

    Quotes:
    I suspect Microsoft may have 50 or more of these lawsuits in the queue. All of them are not asking for hundreds of millions, but most would be large enough to ruin anything but the largest companies.

    Translation: Yeah, Microsoft is behind the lawsuit. Oops I let the cat out the bag, because I hardly mentioned SCO in the article and gushed about Microsoft for most of it. And a little theatening works wonder now and again, doesn't it, nudge ndge, wink wink, say no more.

    Since the GPL type license agreements push the liability to the users, who do you go after? I think this is a key problem. Nobody wants to be the ultimate guarantor for software that was free (or close to it). I think the dispute with SCO would have been settled a long time ago if everybody knew this was the last one. The problem is there will probably be hundreds or even thousands of these disputes in the future and the targets will be the companies with the deepest pockets. Even if the large vendors disclaim all responsibility initially, I do not think the customers will accept this from their vendors for very long. In the meantime, I don't see anybody being in a hurry to write the first big check.

    Translation: I'm just busy repeating what Darl has been pissing into the winds so I can make people worry more than they are. Yet even I am just too fucking stupid to understand the GPL and still don't get it. (hint to Mike: You and your kind of greedy money grabbing fuckwits deserve to get your assses sued out of existence for your stupidity: If there is no proprietry IP in the Linux kernel then the GPL protects us very well.)

    I have also had several long lost friends contact me. I think they thought I might need some support.

    Tranlsation: Bill and Darl have been on the phone screaming at me for that leaked letter. They have warned me to only say nice things about Microsoft and SCO. (Hint for Mike: You're gonna need that support mike, because IBM is almost certain to subpoena your ass into court, and if they don't Novell and RedHat will. After that you will know what it's like to get screwed in the butt by a big hairy Convict.)
  • by iwbcman ( 603788 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:25AM (#8551593) Homepage
    Firstly, I admire Mike Anderer for speaking up for himself. Although he is apparently very well known in the insider community of IP-financing he was unknown to the rest of the world prior to ESR's Halloween X release. Being catapulted into the public eye in such a way is not easy for anyone, even more so when the response of the public at large is quite venomous.
    Secondly, I get the impression that Mike Anderer is almost there, almost beiginning to fathom the changes in the software industry which he has referred to. He is not simply stuck in the old-style IP tradition which became utterly dominant in the last 20 years-no he was one of the architects of this development.
    Secondly, For people like him compatibility, exhangability and interoperatibilty means cross-licenscing. According to this view if companies want to exchange documents between various applications cross-licensing agreements must already be in place which allow for this to happen.I can imagine that for many companies, during the time frame where the IP hegemony system was comming into being(early 80's), the idea of cross-licenscing as the way to enable open exchange and interoperation was quite obvious and even common sensical.
    What people didn't realize then, and which many fail to still realize now, is that all of the problems of compatibility, exhangability and interoperatibilty are created by this IP regime to begin with. Only when one sees that these issues are contrived issues, issued which have no technical merit, and are issues which themselves promote and prolong their own very being, does one begin to see how self-servingt the IP regime really is.
    Mike Anderer has been in the buisness of creating the need for his own buisness for the last 20 years- and he is not alone. He is but one of an entire industry of IP tychoons which arose in the ecosystem of IP. HE and people like him worked to develop the IP system and these same people then provided the solutions to the self-created problems which the IP system inherently produces-one could view this as a form of autopoesis.
    Thirdly, his confusing of the GPL with public domain is pre-programmed. The notion that something can be licensced in such a way that this license itself cannot be bought or sold contradicts, in it's very roots, what licensces have always traditionally meant. The price of the GPL is priceless -and the free software community will stand forever in debt to the brilliance of this licensce. Mike Anderer cannot really grasp this concept fully without fundamentally re-evalutating what licenscing means-and this is of course the fundament of his occupation for the last 20 odd years. For him to fathom this sea-change in the software industry it is necessary for him to understand the incredibly subtle, yet profoundly deep difference between the GPL and public domain/propietary IP.
    Understanding this difference means relinquishing the defining oppsoite self-definition of IP-IP has always defined itself through it's opposition to it's other(andere)- public domain. The two notions need each other and exist for each other's benefit. The temporary evil of IP find's it's absolution in the eventual transition to public domain. The defered time, the temporary evil-to-be-covercome, constitutes the horizon of the economy of relative value which is traded in the IP system.
    The GPL is never public domain and is never to be bought or sold-it is a-economic in the strictest sense of the word. For Mike Anderer to understand this he would need to call into question the raison d'etre of his entire proffesional life and therein lies the damning self-service of the IP industry.
    • by Xenographic ( 557057 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:06PM (#8551781) Journal
      [The following is from my post [groklaw.net] to this story on Groklaw [groklaw.net].]

      Okay, I'm not a lawyer, much less one who specializes in patents. I am, however, a mathematician who has done some game theory.

      Basically, ALL companies are vulnerable to something I have dubbed an "IP Vampire." Whereas other businesses have products, which make them vulnerable to counter-suits over patents, an "IP Vampire" has no products. It has nothing but patents, lawyers, and enough capital to sue. It is NOT vulnerable to counter-suits, so they have only to weigh their case: license the patent, or settle. Either of these costs the business they sink their teeth into. Even defending themselves successfully costs them money. It's a no win situation for the business they bite. Enough of them can drain any company. Anyone who sponsors them is short-sighted. As long as it is legal, the competition can do this just as well as they can. For a monopoly to do this, one might think it could raise anti-trust issues, but I suspect a lawyer would have to make that arguement, and I am not one.

      Microsoft is every bit as vulnerable to these as the next company. It nearly got hit for 500M thanks to Eolas. They should be glad that that patent did not have so much prior art. They cannot win them all.

      If this is legal, everyone who can do this will. At some point, they will have to sponsor such suits just to stay alive (or to try to). If it's not legal, game over. I hope that someone can eventually find a way to straighten much of this out. Personally, I would end software patents for starters... software is just mathematics, and anyone who says otherwise is spouting nonsense. I do not agree that mathematics should ever be patented. We know that it is not necessary to drive mathematical innovation, after all. Ask Euclid and company. I can only wonder how much mathematical progress would have been lost if all the works of antiquity could not have been preserved... we had all too few copies of the great mathematical works to learn from for too long, after all...

      But I digress. The principle behind an "IP Vampire" is simple. Defending against them is futile. I suspect that Microsoft is thus banking on the only principle of that game to their advantage--whoever has the most money, especially if they move first, wins.

      But that would eliminate all competition. If our anti-trust regulators are that asleep at the switch, well... something will have to be done... I know all to well that if you don't like the rules, you have to change the game. I know a few other games to play. I would rather not play any of them, however. It is like the movie "WarGames" -- the only way to win is not to play.

      In the mean time, I think that publicity will probably suffice. The more people who know why they do not want to do business with Microsoft, or anyone else who promulgates these insidious "IP Vampires" the better...
    • by Azureflare ( 645778 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:27PM (#8551911)
      Your comment rocks, man. Kudos to you. You should write that in to an online publication before they steal it from slashdot ;)

      At any rate, I think there's something you should follow up on: Perhaps Mike Anderer DOES understand that the GPL threatens his livelihood. It could be, and I think it's very possible, that he is saying this, deliberately misrepresenting the GPL, so that he CAN save his livelihood! If the GPL becomes widely adopted, because it gets rid of all that IP muss, Anderer will be out of a job. He knows there's an avalanche falling, but he's hoping that placing a twig in such a way will stop it...

      It'd have to be a pretty strong twig, though.

  • by FunWithHeadlines ( 644929 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:56AM (#8551743) Homepage
    And here's [groklaw.net] PJ's take on this letter in Groklaw. She feels he inadvertantly gave away the overall scheme. Interesting stuff.

    • by marianne1017 ( 748745 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:11PM (#8551810)
      This guy has a messianic complex. I thought it was telling how he describes himself and his incredible career. Also rather naive of him to implicitly threaten companies who don't have billions in cash to defend fake IP lawsuits. Also rather stupid of him not to be able to imagine a world in which GPL protects producers AND consumers. Marianne
  • I think one real issue, that people are skirting, is who will be the ultimate guarantor of IP-related issues in a world that is governed by the GPL and GPL-like licenses.

    It sorely disappoints me that those with money and power will always try to find a scapegoat -- Mike Anderer is no exception. Obviously he will always live up to the perpetual negative stereotypes of CEOs and upper management with comments like this.

    GPL and GPL-like licenses have always been about the community and the greater good -- and it is obvious people like Mike will never "get it." Instead of finding the person to sue, they need to think about the greater good of the community and approach it as such -- i.e. "I'm here to try to work things out with arbitration and a good dialogue." Instead they come in with guns blazing and slap such a huge lawsuit hoping for such a huge payout that people will just laugh in their face and think they're just crackpots -- ruining the whole dialogue in the first place. Approaching issues such as licenses and IPs will require lots more tact than these individuals of the "old school" will care to exercise.
  • by Random BedHead Ed ( 602081 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:34PM (#8551948) Homepage Journal
    A few people have commented on Anderer's comments regarding putting the kernel into the public domain. I agree that it's great that this guy came forward, but frankly I would have thought that someone as involved in copyright and patent licensing as he claims to be would know a bit more about the ins and outs of copyright law, particularly as it pertains to Linux and other GPL-licensed software. Consider this:
    I could easily see IBM, HP, Sun, and many of the other large hardware players solving this problem tomorrow by settling the dispute with SCO and maybe even taking the entire code base and donating it into the public domain.

    This shows a serious lack of understanding. IBM, Sun and many other large contributors to the kernel have a lot of power in the industry, and they each own copyrights over the parts of the Linux kernel that they contributed. But they don't own Linux as a whole: each of them owns pieces of Linux, but the code surrounding what they contributed is licensed to them. The license is the GPL, which does not allow them to re-use the code under a license other than the GPL. So in theory Sun (or one of the others) could take code they contributed to Linux and put it in the public domain, but they couldn't touch the surrounding code, nor revoke the GPL-granted rights of people who licensed the code as it exists in the kernel.

    The idea of Linux going into the public domain is wishful thinking that we've heard a few times from people in the industry. They need to get over it, because it's highly unlikely. They also would benefit from learning a bit more about how these collaborative uses of copyright work. Contrary to Mr. Anderer's comments, the economic model of the GPL has actually been thought out in great depth: there is little room for the licensing models employed in the past by priprietary software vendors, but this is intentional and not in need of fixing.

    • by the-banker ( 169258 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:11PM (#8552122)
      You are thinking about the wrong OS.

      He isn't referring to putting Linux in the public domain, he is referring to placing Unix in the public domain.

      In other words, he is surprised that the quick solution - buy the source to Unix then place Unix source in the public domain - has not happened.

      There are a lot of things that Anderer stands for that I despise, however someone like IBM doing what he suggests would actually be good for the community in that it would settle a lot of the licensing murkiness around Unix that has hung like a pall over it for years (AT&T, BSD, Novell, SCO, SCO/Caldera, etc...).

      I think this would prove next to impossible in a practical sense, however, as I am sure that other companies would claim that IBM doesn't own *ALL* of Unix and sue on that basis.

      The bottom line is that I don't see Unix license issues ever disappearing completely - the best we can hope for is a clear judgement against SCO that prevents any other company from trying similar tactics.

  • by bstadil ( 7110 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:03PM (#8552076) Homepage
    A frontal Patent assault by MS can not be won.

    If they do this they will force IBM to supply their own IBM-Linux (Or buy Novell) that will be covered by the Gadzillion Cross-licensing deals they have plus anyone that attacks will be counter sued for Patent infringement by IBM.

    The "Best" MS can do it nible around Linux as is the case with the Paul Allen funded SCO harrassment case.

    IBM-Linux is a nightmare scenario for MS. The only reason IBM has not done this is that they development process of Linux is performing well and IBM do not want to face some of the Patent issues that may be lurking inside Linux. By Lurking I am not implying that Linux has stolen anything but maybe a lot of potential SCOs is watching.

    IBM knows this and that's why they will make an example out of SCO. SCO will not only be leveled but the fields around it will be salted. Corporate Veil to Canopy will be ruled broken and they will be forced to admit guilt and settle or face extinction.

    IBM has actively collected Patents for the better part of its life for a reason. This is it.

  • by CODiNE ( 27417 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:06PM (#8552095) Homepage
    If you see the world moving forward as a (GNU/Linux/BSD/Unix)/Windows world it does not take an MIT rocket scientist to think it would make sense for the largest software company in the world to increase their rights by taking another license (remember they did develop and own a portion of the code originally sold as MS Xenix). In fact I saw several postings on Slashdot hammering them for including what people saw as BSD property (with proper copyright attribution) in some of their products. It was also no secret that Microsoft licensed and even purchased companies in this arena over the last several years (look where Windows Services for Unix came from). They developed some pretty incredible functionality into things like SFU 3.5 (which I just got for free with a systems magazine). If you consider this licensing an indirect financing of SCO, then everybody (or at least the thousands of licensees) is responsible at some level. The licenses in some cases exceeded $100 million, so these were not even close to the largest ones. The hard part for me was finding somebody who was not already a big licensee. Just as I see Microsoft developing stronger interoperability from their side, I see a huge community developing stronger connectivity from the GNU/Linux/BSD/Unix side. We will work from both sides and hopefully contribute to making things more functional for customers whatever they choose. The only really interesting point here is that people finally benefit from more stuff working together. It still takes work, but things are getting better in many areas.
    Maybe I'm totally misreading this... but it sounds like MS may have "Licensed" Linux from SCO. Now imagine if SCO claims ownership of Linux... and declares that their own distribution of it under the GPL was not valid for whatever reason... (Which they have). SCO claims they have the right to sell Linux licenses... (yup)... Microsoft buys a bunch of them (Yup).... and immediately begins to incorporate GPL'ed code into their product(s).
    it does not take an MIT rocket scientist to think it would make sense for the largest software company in the world to increase their rights by taking another license
    Riiight... and then he goes on to mention a past example of SFU... and Microsoft continuing to develop more "interoperability" by licensing..
    I see a huge community developing stronger connectivity from the GNU/Linux/BSD/Unix side.
    In the same way that SFU increased interoperability before. I think MS is using GPL'ed code which when sued will be claimed was licensed in good faith from SCO. Perhaps this was the real plan from the start? Giving MS free use of any GPL'ed code? But maybe I'm reading this wrong. :)
  • by ka9dgx ( 72702 ) * on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:10PM (#8552111) Homepage Journal
    I apparently see things a little differently that most of the /. crowd. It's obvious to me, even though I'm not a Lawyer, that he gave it away in the middle of the interview...

    "I could easily see IBM, HP, Sun, and many of the other large hardware players solving this problem tomorrow by settling the dispute with SCO and maybe even taking the entire code base and
    donating it into the public domain."

    The real goal here is to strip the GPL away from Linux. Once its free of the severe restrictions of the GPL, they can take it, and start work on MS-Linux.

    Remember the tactical situation in which Microsoft finds itself right now. Most of their money is being made selling copies of Microsoft Office, and copies of Windows to run it on. The two are viewed almost as a monolith by the public, because the cost of Windows is usually hidden in a new computer.

    They find themselves with stuck with the results of 20 years of marketing driven development as their code base. Any new system has to be backward compatible to the point where most MS-DOS 2.1 programs still work. This severely limits design flexiblity.

    With a switch to Linux, they could drop all of their bugs, grab a nice clean codebase from the public domain, and start fresh. They could blame any bugs on the Linux people, and claim their professional team of developers is working to enhance the stability and security of the software to meet the needs of corporate America. (oh, the Irony of it)

    What member of the public wouldn't jump at the chance to buy MS-Linux? They would see it as the latest technology, with the Microsoft seal of approval. (We don't want those undesireable "hacker" types writing our software, do we?)

    Once they have MS-Linux firmly in place, they can then extend their true monopoly (Microsoft Office) into the Linux space.

    I assume this is obvious to some of you, but I wrote this just in case someone hasn't woken up yet to the reality.

    To sum up, as long as the GPL holds, we can have a free (as in speach and beer) set of working software to build and share. Once the GPL gets breeched, we're fscked! (Just spend the $1000/machine, and pay for MS-Linux with Office)

    --Mike--

    • I'm not sure I completely agree here. Yes, there is a threat of another Unix clone that could mimic the functionality of Linux and it's APIs based on the original AT&T Unix.

      But we need to put things into perspective:

      1) Linux has an active community around it. That is hard to beat. You still cannot compete against a worldwide bunch of people continually hacking on the kernel wrt Microsoft hacking on it's own kernel.
      2) The code is still free, it's still a free product. I believe MS-Linux will cost y
  • SFU (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Earlybird ( 56426 ) <slashdot @ p u r e f i c t ion.net> on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:30PM (#8552213) Homepage
    From the article:
    • They [Microsoft] developed some pretty incredible functionality into things like SFU 3.5 (which I just got for free with a systems magazine). [emphasis mine]

    Er. I think not.

    SFU is a bunch of half-arsed stuff cobbled together from existing licensed products, some of which could be replaced by better Free Software (such as Cygwin).

    It's designed to cater to legacy Unix environments -- sites still stuck with NIS, NFS, telnet etc. -- not modern Linux/*BSD environments.

    A proper, non-legacy "services for Unix" package would include Cygwin, OpenSSH, encrypted Samba access, CUPS support etc., and it would have the unfortunate but amusing effect of driving the customer away from Windows, not the opposite.

  • Missleading headline (Score:4, Informative)

    by 7-Vodka ( 195504 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:45PM (#8552289) Journal
    I believe the guy who posted the headline didn't understand what was meant by the Microsoft impending lawsuits. Here's the entire paragraph from the letter:

    "In a world where there are $500 million dollar patent infringement lawsuits imposed on OS companies (although this is not completely settled yet), how would somebody like Red Hat compete when 6 months ago they only had $80-$90 million in cash? At that point they could not even afford to settle a fraction of a single judgment without devastating their shareholders. I suspect Microsoft may have 50 or more of these lawsuits in the queue. All of them are not asking for hundreds of millions, but most would be large enough to ruin anything but the largest companies. Red Hat did recently raise several hundred million which certainly gives them more staying power. Ultimately, I do not think any company except a few of the largest companies can offer any reasonable insulation to their customers from these types of judgments. You would need a market cap of more than a couple billion to just survive in the OS space."

    Then the headline says:

    "Among the highlights is a prediction by Mr. Anderer that Microsoft has many more disruptive lawsuits planned up their sleeves."

    My interpretation of this paragraph is that Microsoft always has tons of people suing them, and that redhat or whomever else wishes to make a living as an OS vendor needs to have lots of cash to pay out on some of them. Of course I disagree with that, but he does not come out and say that Microsoft has 50 more SCO-type suits in the works.

    • by aug24 ( 38229 )
      You're absolutely right that that's what he's referring to on the face of it, but it represents a veiled threat. He's arguing that lawsuits are inevitable for anyone trying to get into the OS market - in other words, we will sue you, if we want you to stop.

      What he and everyone else on that side haven't realised, is that they could kill Red Hat et al, and Linux would continue:

      • We get as much indemnity from a download as MS gives in it's EULA.
      • We get more support from the community than we get from Micr
  • by mactari ( 220786 ) <rufwork.gmail@com> on Saturday March 13, 2004 @02:44PM (#8552663) Homepage
    Seriously, what's Linux got that MS wants so bad that they can't steal from BSD legally, like Apple did? Rotor [microsoft.com]'s already on FreeBSD, and I'm not sure what MS would want to steal from Linux other than that basic foundation for their CLI, other than brand marketability (which, I suppose, could be enough).

    MS doesn't like competition, and that's why they'd help out SCO and have this fellow essentially threaten Red Hat out of business. They don't have to want to have Linux to want to see it gone.
  • by crucini ( 98210 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @03:28PM (#8553048)
    My impression of Mike's document is that he's gotten some angry reactions from people on the net, and is feeling a little hurt and surprised. He probably sees himself as an ambassador, one who moves freely through the Linux, Unix and Microsoft worlds, as well as navigating the murkier waters of "channels" and secretive financing. So to some extent, I guess he sees himself as a member of the "geek tribe".

    I think his conscience may be troubling him a little now that he's forced to look back on the Microsoft deal. At the time, it was probably so exciting that he rode past such considerations, as many people have done. After all, it wasn't illegal or clearly wrong - the wrongness is more visible now that SCO has become such a high profile enemy of Linux. But now that the angry mob is after him, Mike can't afford reflection. He has to dig in his heels and affirm his SCO ideology.

    Mike mentions being harrassed by an individual with five online handles, all registered as underage for extra legal protection. To what forum is he referring? Does slashdot have this underage checkbox? Did he sue the harrasser and get a subpoena, or was he forestalled by the underage status?

    Mike gives an overview of his accomplishments - the numerous companies founded and patents granted. I think the message here is that he is not simply a shady dealmaker, but a technologist who has helped to move the industry forward. So clearly, his "geek cred" is important to him. Unlike Darl, Mike isn't playing to the Wall Street Journal readers. He'd like slashdotters to, if not forgive, at least understand.
  • by OnanTheBarbarian ( 245959 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @05:30PM (#8553854)
    Mike writes:

    "I would state that this licensing project represented only a small fraction of my time over the last year and has completely gone away in recent months. "

    and

    "I am still hoping people dig up some of the more positive projects I have been involved with."

    Before getting involved in this whole SCO mess, Mike should have remembered this vital lesson [mac-archive.com].

  • by ppanon ( 16583 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @07:28PM (#8554904) Homepage Journal
    I think one real issue, that people are skirting, is who will be the ultimate guarantor of IP-related issues in a world that is governed by the GPL and GPL-like licenses. I could easily see IBM, HP, Sun, and many of the other large hardware players solving this problem tomorrow by settling the dispute with SCO and maybe even taking the entire code base and donating it into the public domain. I know this is what I originally thought would happen, at least the settlement part. I am not certain what people who paid tens of millions for licenses would say if what they paid for was now free, but that is a different issue.

    Anderer expected a settlement and probably so did SCO. They never counted on IBM pimp-slapping them in court 'pour encourager les autres' to not repeat the same mistake. In the long run, that's the most effective way to be a guarantor of IP-related issues. Paying off blackmail just encourages more of the same (especially if it's for doctored picts).

    However people in the computing and IT industries shouldn't be surprised that what they licenced for tens of millions of $ was now free. It's the result of the commoditization of products and is partially related to why you can get a $500 PC that is faster than a $10 million mainframe/supercomputer from 20 years ago.

    Did those companies and managers get enough ROI on those tens of millions to amortize their costs before the price dropped? After all Linux has been available for a while even if it's only been gaining mainstream commercial acceptance for a few years. The writing was on the wall for anyone smart enough to read it. If IT directors were planning on amortizing $10million+ costs over more than 5 years, they were dreaming or counting on non-existent first-mover advantages that also bit a lot of .coms.

    If somebody with that kind of purchasing power is upset, then either a) they don't know this industry or b) they are idiots to be upset that their overhead just shrunk massively. Either way, they shouldn't be holding that position and if this is what it takes to get them replaced, so much the better.
  • by benploni ( 125649 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @09:00PM (#8556257) Journal
    Put aside for a moment the actual message of his letter. Just for now, pay attention to his writing. The man is practically illiterate.

    He is incapable of putting together a coherent paragraph. Forget about getting a cogent argument; you have to struggle to understand what he's trying to express!

    OK, back to the content. In my experience, I've met many people like him. They have lots of shady companies. Often, they have had so many that they have lost track of them. Mr. Anderer brags of this trait, but it is a major red flag.

    Such people also tend to never stick to one thing; they make "contributions" in countless fields. They can never stay too long in one place, or people will notice that they are bullshitters.

    Bottom line, this confirms my guess about him. He's a sleazy, bottom-feeding, undereducated corporate whore, used by Microsoft and TSG only to distance themselves from an unsavory transaction.

"More software projects have gone awry for lack of calendar time than for all other causes combined." -- Fred Brooks, Jr., _The Mythical Man Month_

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