Thirty-Three States Contributed to the MATRIX 328
lexbaby writes "The Salt Lake Tribune has an article claiming that at least 33 states have released government and commercial records on residents to the controversial MATRIX (Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange) network instead of the originally claimed 13." Don't worry, there's plenty of RAM for all 50 and the territories too.
Avoiding trouble in the first place... (Score:5, Insightful)
Mouth shut, eyes forward, do what you're told. Don't question authority.
Smile for the cameras. They're everywhere and they're watching you.
Secure all zippers, buttons, tie clips, etc. Wardrobe Malfunction isn't funny anymore, it's subversive.
Turn in your neighbors on the slightest hint they're trouble makers. You won't get a pair a blue jeans, but you help keep your country safe.
Pokemon: Catch 'em all, otherwise you never know where they are or what they are up to.
Cover your mouth when coughing or sneezing to avoid Germ Warfare Terrorist label.
Vote for the most patriotic sounding politician, no matter what their platform.
Remember, we're all in this together.
Obligatory comment (Score:1, Insightful)
Fear Sells. (Score:4, Insightful)
Once this MATRIX is proven to be useless, either by failing to catch terrorists or not predicting the next attack, will the government kill the program? Of course not.
Fear has always been a great method to let government erode privacy and rights.
Proof? (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you actually have some good, solid evidence that the ram is being used for this? Aside from an article at Techworld that thinks it might be. At least try to show a tiny little bit of responsibility in the statements that you make.
Re:Excellent (Score:1, Insightful)
After all, they don't need to hide until AFTER they do it. Then they are dead.
This is like a stupid school teacher to tries to re-arrange seating order from alphabetical to something else when her classroom becomes disruptive. All she knows how to do is put things in order so that's what she does, when in reality the situation calls for some strong spankings and maybe kicking some students out.
Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... (Score:1, Insightful)
Secure all zippers, buttons, tie clips, etc. Wardrobe Malfunction isn't funny anymore, it's subversive
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Amen to that. I have this old leather jacket from Wilson's that I bought nearly ten years ago. It was a $300 lambskin leather jacket at the time. Now it's been through enough rainstorms to make it look like a $5 Salvation Army pickup even though I kept it well oiled and water protected. Anyways, the threads holding the zipper onto the left breast pocket were snapped from keeping my cigarettes in there and reaching in to retrieve them, straining the threads over a number of years. I had to be extra careful unzipping the pocket because, if I led the zipper too far, it would slide right off the end of the track.
I went through the airport a few months back with my jacket. When they searched my jacket at the checkpoint they unzipped the pocket. They weren't kind enough to put the zipper inside the pocket so that I could reattach it. They threw it away. I didn't think to check until I was in the terminal. I went back and asked about it but received nothing but blank stares and,"We can give you a claim form to fill out."
Right. I'm going to spend 15 minutes filling out a claim form to have my name added to a list over a $2 zipper that I'll probably never be able to find the original match for anyways.
I guess it's just part of life. No matter how well you take care of your stuff someone else is eventually going to break it for you and there's nothing that you can do about it.
This rock keeps tigers away (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... (Score:5, Insightful)
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
Please board the nearest transportation to the Ministry of Love, they are waiting to see you.
Adding injury to insult... (Score:5, Insightful)
I am guessing Mr. Ashcroft pay this out of his own pcoket. So this tax payer's money.
Is this going to make you any safer? Doubtful.
Is this going to make you poorer? Yes, Indirectly.
Is this going to make Seisinit richer? Sure.
Is this going to violate your privacy? Most Definitely.
So you are basically paying Seisinit to take away your privacy. This is a bit like this story here. [mithuro.com] But that one is a bit more believable.
Re:Proof? (Score:4, Insightful)
Notable quote (Score:2, Insightful)
What's the problem? (Score:2, Insightful)
Leavitt teamed up with Florida Gov. Jeb Bush -- President Bush's brother -- to pitch MATRIX to other states. The two briefed other governors on the project during a conference call referred to in Feb. 6, 2003, MATRIX board minutes.
A member of the Bush family involved in something deceptive that will further erode our constitutional rights? NEVER, I say, NEVER!
FUCKIN' BUSH (Score:0, Insightful)
Paranoia day (Score:4, Insightful)
The MATRIX (Score:5, Insightful)
Enough with the MATRIX puns, look at the issue seriously. I live in France and had never heard of this project before, but it sure looks scary, or at least, the government not saying everything about it is.
Can be read in the article: "We don't want our information floating out there when we don't know what's on the database or who has access to it," said Sen. Ron Allen, D-Stansbury Park. It seems the people actually involved in this do not know very much what information will be withheld, let alone the people whose information is withheld. I mean, how can you be sure what you're being told is the truth when you see that the people involved with the project do not know that much about it themselves?
The representatives say that the MATRIX is just a way of accessing individuals' information faster, but I don't really see how this could help them to predict where and when the next terrorist attack will be -- it will only really help them once the acts are actually done, I should think.
I'm not stating that the government are surely up to something dodgy here, and after all, perhaps they might not be lying when they say that this will allow them to get hold of currently available information faster. But I just cannot read this without an ounce of doubt that a few privacy breaches might help them to fulfill their task.
A warm fuzzy one (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This rock keeps tigers away (Score:5, Insightful)
9/11
Before that?
Anyone?
1993?
I am NOT arguing with you, "see, we're safe" works for enough folks to keep the population apathetic. It IS creepy, though, when you think about it:
How easy would it be to walk across the Canadian border, walk into a border-town theatre, and blow yourself up?
It seems like this crap happens on a daily basis in the Middle East, but we never see this stuff.
Either they aren't out to get us as much as we think or the government has already been doing a good job.
Believe me, I understand the rammifications of a WMD attack -- looking at what certain chemicals and bioagents can do is very sobering. However I don't think the risk is high enough that the government now has a right to actively suspect (monitor) all citizens without cause.
There is a difference between monitoring a suspect and monitoring everyone. When the government is looking over everyone's shoulders, day and night, you no longer have what I would call a 'free society.'
Cheers
Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... (Score:2, Insightful)
You probably meant...
America, love it or destroy it with freedomcrushing practices such as PATRIOT Act, big government, big brother mentality, etc.
Seriously, if you love freedom, you strive to protect it; not from King George, not from Ivan, because you did that already. Don't forget to defend your freedom no matter the threat. If your president and attorney general is the threat, you know what you have to do. You have no excuse.
Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... (Score:3, Insightful)
Always wear your foil hat underneath a real hat, otherwise they'll know you know.
Good point. Thank you very much.
"Good manners aren't just a good idea, they're the law!"
"You're under arrest."
"What for?"
"You didn't thank him."
"Oh, sorry."
"Too late for that, Sir."
"Very well, thank you for arresting me."
"You're welcome."
Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can only hope that the upcoming generation has been taught enough independence to value their freedom and fight the authoritarians. The good thing about a democratic society is that the pendulum swings both ways, and given time usually corrects itself. The current voters (baby boomers) didn't deal with as much McCarthyism as their parents and their apathy is going to get us in trouble.
Hopefully it will correct itself as it often has.
Cheers
Who came up with the name? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Fear Sells. (Score:2, Insightful)
i sure wouldnt... the nazis were perfectly safe against attack until they started making attacks themselves.
i would much rather see the US made a safer place via sensical foriegn policy than through draconian laws and cloak & dagger espionage.
all these "security" measures are doing is simply allowing the US citizens to pay the price for our leaderships short-sightedness while allowing it to continue.
Re:Excellent (Score:5, Insightful)
This is true because, as Authority Figures, our exalted leaders and police officials can be trusted completely to act diligently and with only the public interest in mind. Abuses of power for political or personal reasons are quite impossible, now and evermore. Liberals foolishly fail to understand this simple fact that every Good Dog knows.
The really cool thing about this is that they'll always be able to round up a good number of plausible suspects for anything that might happen, without all the hassle and expense of identifying the actual perpetrator or - what's worse - having to actually prove guilt. That way Ashcroft et.al. get to look like heroes whether any real justice is done or not. We the People insist on no more than that somebody be apprehended. I'd like to have a job like that. I could say, "Lookee here, Mr. Boss-Man, sir. I wrote you a hunnert lines o' code," and Mr. Boss-Man wouldn't even care if it compiled, much less did anything useful.
I dunno about you, but I didn't enjoy the Spain incident.
You're taking a big leap of faith here if you're suggesting that the liberty/safety trade-off is real. Under Hitler, Stalin and Mao, nobody was safe. Don't expect any better here if we hand absolute power to Bush and his minions (or anyone else, for that matter).
Wow (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This rock keeps tigers away (Score:5, Insightful)
"Oklahoma city in 1995."
Oklahoma city was not caused by foreign terrorists -- that was a local nutcase. Refer to my post, I specifically said 'foreign'. Swing and a miss.
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"But that wasn't the last terrorist attack on this country before 9/11. Our African embassies were attacked, US troop barracks in Saudi Arabia were attacked, the USS Cole was attacked"
These are attacks off of American soil. What good is a database on American citizens going to do in helping to stop these attacks? Strike 2.
---
"and there was an attack that was stopped on New Years Eve 2000. This is not a problem that we can just ignore."
Now you're bringing up unsuccessful attacks. My whole point is that either they're not trying hard enough, or we're catching them -- which seems to be the case here.
The whole problem is that this doesn't happen nearly enough to warrant panic. We've had two local attacks in the last decade. Considering how easy the typical middle eastern attack (suicide bomber) could be carried out here, and the fact that we're not seeing any, should mean something to you. It is said (non-stop) that we're hated and threatened every day, but even the almost-unstoppable attacks aren't happening.
Strike three. Back to the bench.
In the end, the problem goes even further in that a database like this is monitoring American citizens who live here. It seems reasonable that potential terrorists can come here with all the training and money they need, spend a couple nights in a hotel, and blow themselves straight to hell. The effects of monitoring an entire population can be shrugged off by terrorists, but not those that live here.
The negatives in this case absolutely blow away the positives.
Cheers
Re:Fear Sells. (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't believe we should surrender our civil liberties just because there are people out there willing to kill us. There have ALWAYS been people out there willing to kill us.
French (French & Indian War)
English (American Revolution, War of 1812)
Ourselves (U.S. Civil War)
Japanese (World War II)
Why, now, is it okay to abuse our civil liberties?
The concern of potential abuse of MATRIX (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Excellent (Score:5, Insightful)
In other words, "Live free or die". For those that may want to reconstruct this sentiment to form something like "you will die OR live free", remember what that quote means. It means, "I would rather die than to NOT live free". And I would agree. You see, I am an American, and I understand what freedom means, and therefore when I see it being eroded for unseemly ends I must, in a working democracy that is, rise up and fight. It is my duty as an American, and as a patriot.
Vote these bastards out of office... our freedom depends on it...
Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, that and the fact that that they are willing to destroy our rights over the first one, and do little to nothing about the second.
Politicians make me sick.
Re:They're not messing around (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Fuck you."
Nobody is forcing you to stay in America if you don't like it. America, love it or leave it fscker.
You want to pay for my moving expenses? You want to lobby a foreign government on my behalf to grant me a visa to stay in that country?
No? Well OK then, go shut the fuck up.
There's LOTS of people forcing me to stay in America: my creditors, American politicians, foreign politicians, my parents, my wife's family, better-educated-than-American European citizens, poor foreign workers who don't want me to have one of the few jobs in their neck of the world. You Mr Anonymous Coward are a nitwitted dumbass who obviously has had no direct contract with foreign cultures if you think any old middle-class American family with a beef against the government can just pick up and leave. Shit I can't even get into Mexico to work at a sweatshop.
Let me also point out the American idea that we vote for our own government misleaders, hence the government is "by the people, for the people". When you defend a totalitarian government, you point out to the entire world that you don't know shit from squat about the idealistic American Dream, and that it's YOU who don't belong here. If you had given any clue that you knew what the hell you were talking about you might have appeared to be one of the minority of Americans who know the actual brutal history of the country and the struggle of its people to create a real democracy despite the government. But you're obviously not one of those people, so again Fuck You for being a dumbass who believes in the thin blue line and will vote for the creation of a despotism in the land *I* call home.
YOU are the non-American here, and your First Amendment right to ignorant speech ends at my property line in rural Texas. Actually not too far from the place a few ATF agents upholding a corrupt regime got their lives terminated in self-defense by some religious nuts in 1993.
Do you Mr Anonymous Coward want me to leave America? I invite you to try and kick me out. You'll need lots of bullets.
Re:The concern of potential abuse of MATRIX (Score:3, Insightful)
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. It's fine that you are against this, as I am too (and I am in one of the few states still thinking it's a good idea), but you CAN make corrections. There is a process called "review and challenge," which while you cannot look at the direct results from this system, you can get the list of info it gives (that doesn't make much sense, but it is the case). If any of it is wrong you can submit a correction. Now, whether that request goes any further than the trashcan is questionable.
Of course, if, you are labelled a terrorist on this system for voting Libertarian, when you request it they can just say "nope, nothing found, have a nice day."
That's why I say we should find out the location of the key points & blow them up in the name of freedom. Am I going to have pigs/feds at my door for saying that? Probably not (damn, and I wanted to try out my new rifle), but it's still a good idea.
Re:Fear Sells. (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm more concerned about the infrequent inspections of cargo ships or what about our current foriegn policies that seem to have created this whole threat of terrorism in the first place.
Re:Wrong blame (Score:3, Insightful)
You say that as though Republicans are any different from Democrats. At this point, pubbies are pretty much liberal-lite. The few real conservatives left with any say get shouted down by the liberals and neo-con morons of the supposedly right-leaning party.
Why are we spending more than ever? Why are we looking at a $500+ Billion deficeit? Why are we pumping $530 Billion into a socialist medical plan? Why are we sapping the life out of Social(ist) Security while continuing to pretend it's doing something useful? Why are we pushing things like TIA? Why are we pushing for gun control on the same level Reno & Friends were? Why are we letting illegal immigrants stay in this country? Why are we allowing them to work here legally? Why are we contining to push the farce known as the "War on Drugs", which is really just a code for wasteful government spending designed to look pretty while sending the Bill of Rights through a shredder? Why are we locking US citizens up without trials or lawyers? Why are we passing censorship laws? Why are we even talking about adding Constitutional amendments to snatch even more rights from the states?
The list goes on and on, but suffice it to say that Bush and the rest of the Pubbies have shifted left of many Dems - so far so, in fact, that many so-called liberals are getting whiplash from it.
We've actually managed to elect a Republican President who's too liberal for many liberals.
The problem with your logic, in terms of "us" voting these people into office, is that these same people are now utilizing fear in an extreme manner to force citizens into submission. They present programs such as this as the only alternative to sudden, painful, horrifying death. They marginalize civil liberties advocates on BOTH sides of the political spectrum as extremists, and then proceed to convince the public at large that the entire nation will burst into flames unless these types of actions are taken.
That's called treason, in my book.
good points (Score:3, Insightful)
For all those people who love to say "if you don't like it here, leave," I'm considering turning them in to homeland security as terrorists because they are trying to undermine the American way. I'm not going to do it, but it's a fun idea.
HUGE target for hacking? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wrong blame (Score:4, Insightful)
What's even funnier is that Oliver Stone, probably one of the most hated (by right-wingers) directors in Hollywood once made a film about how aweful and terrible the media is. It was called, "Natural Born Killers".
The media doesn't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican. The media doesn't care what your position is. The media doesn't care if you're alive, dead, growing mushrooms out of your eyelids, or bleeding to death in the back of a city cab. What they do care about are the ratings you and your story may bring to them. What the media does care about is reporting the things that will keep them employed and successful.
There's a concept that's lost on most people these days, and it's something that would solve probably 80% of the problems plaguing us at this point: personal responsibility.
Re:Thanks for volunteering (Score:4, Insightful)
I read your post right the first time - you just made up that "legitimate authority" requirement when you saw how flimsy your proposal looks. Who's a "legitimate authority"? That's not for you, a private citizen, to decide. The courts already have lots of ways to extract your life record from you, based on due process. And that "white married christian male" fetish you've got tends to protect Aryan Nation people from scrutiny, too, now doesn't it? I don't know why you've got any complaints at all with the current procedures, given your apparent satisfaction with faith based government.
Re:Avoiding trouble in the first place... (Score:1, Insightful)
If you don't like it, leave? I thought the American way was: if you don't like it, start a revolution.