Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
The Internet Businesses Privacy Your Rights Online

BudNet Tracks Your Suds 712

An anonymous reader writes "CNN is carrying a story about Budweiser's national internal sales tracking network called BudNET. It allows Anheuser-Busch to instantly track sales across the country, and 'If Anheuser-Busch loses shelf space in a store in Clarksville, Tennessee, they know it right away.' It brings up some interesting privacy issues, because according to the article 'The last time you bought a six-pack of Bud Light at the Piggly Wiggly, Anheuser servers most likely recorded what you paid, when that beer was brewed, whether you purchased it warm or chilled, and whether you could have gotten a better deal down the street.' Frankly, I don't want Budweiser knowing when I choose to buy their beer versus another brands."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

BudNet Tracks Your Suds

Comments Filter:
  • by CharAznable ( 702598 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:15PM (#8387768)
    Budweiser could stand to spend more on malt and hops instead of impressive IT systems... What's amazing is that they boast about using RICE on their beer!!! Rice is an adjunct that is used in beer to keep costs down and lighten up the body (read: make it more watery)
  • Okay, how? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by parkrrrr ( 30782 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:20PM (#8387854)
    The last time you bought a six-pack of Bud Light at the Piggly Wiggly, Anheuser servers most likely recorded...

    what you paid,

    Okay, this part is reasonable

    when that beer was brewed,

    I can see that they might be able to guess at this with a fair degree of certainty, but how do they know I didn't somehow get a 6-pack that's been sitting at the back of the shelf for weeks? Sure, it's got a "born on" date printed on it, but that's not part of the UPC, so how are they getting it?

    whether you purchased it warm or chilled,

    Again, same thing: it's the same UPC; how would it know, other than in aggregate (i.e. the distributor writing down how many 6-packs are in the cooler when he gets there.) And even if it knows in aggregate, how does it know that the guy at the liquor store didn't move a bunch of warm Buds back into the cooler when the distributor's rep wasn't there?

    and whether you could have gotten a better deal down the street.

    Okay, this one's obvious, too.

  • Re:Piggly-Wiggly? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by stevesliva ( 648202 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:22PM (#8387895) Journal
    Incidentally, Piggly-Wiggly was the first grocer to come up with the astounding idea of self-service grocery stores, rather than letting the clerk collect and package your purchases. Clarence Saunders even patented the idea.

    Piggly-Wiggly's success led to a number of copycat chains, quite a few of which decided to also copy the astoundingly dumb naming convention in addition to the whole self-serve thing.

  • Re:Piggly-Wiggly? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by arnie_apesacrappin ( 200185 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:26PM (#8387981)
    It's a southern thing. There were at one time Piggly-Wiggly knock-offs called Hoggly-Woggly. It's the same store as Kroger, Publix, Winn-Dixie or Meijer (but without clothes and other-non food goods). It just has a goofy name.
  • Simply amazing.... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:26PM (#8387984)
    An article on sales tracking.. which has been done for years (duh!) gets approved... Yet an article about the Movie Industry beating down a company saying you have no right to make backups gets denied...

    Simply amazing... more concerned about getting drunk than watching movies...

  • tinfoil hats (Score:2, Interesting)

    by jhagler ( 102984 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:29PM (#8388030)
    You know, I'm as concerned about personal privacy as the next slashdotter, but come on, this is just good supply chain management.

    They have no idea who purchased their beer, they're not keeping your personal buyig habits ina massive database to use against you when you run for president. They're just trying to make sure that everytime you walk into your local store, they don't lose business because you want one of their products which is currently out of stock.

    AB makes a product here in Texas called Ziegen Bock, not my personal favorite, but I know people who like it. It's primary competitor is Shiner Bock. Now I'm sure the AB people want to make sure that they don't run into cases where Shiner is in the store and not Ziegen. This benefits my friends as they also want to make sure that Ziegen is there so they don't have to get back in their cars and go to the next store down the road. Oh look, incentive for the stores to help AB in this data collection.

    I see a win-win-win situation here, not a threat to my personal privacy.

  • by UncleGizmo ( 462001 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:32PM (#8388076)
    First, to be clear, Bud doesn't know what 'you' bought. That would take them matching data from the credit card [assuming you purchased with a credit card], which they don't have access to, to the scanner sale [which only records what product was scanned]. All they are doing is making sure their product is available, all the time, and in the right product mix for the store/neighborhood.

    A big problem in the beverage industry is 'out-of-stocks'. Most retailers use direct-store-delivery for beverages [bottlers put the stuff on trucks and tell the truck - sometimes in transit - where and how much to drop off at each store]. Before scanners, it could be days before an out-of-stock product was identified. Think about how much product moves off a shelf - per day, per store, per market - having no product on the shelf adds up quick.

    The dollars manufacturers can lose due to out-of-stocks is huge. And retailers don't want empty space, and they don't want shoppers not finding their favorite product and going somewhere else. The manufacturer who figures out how to keep their merchandise in-stock efficiently will be a favorite of the retailer, especially if they are a big name like Bud, who also advertises a lot.

    Companies like Bud use market research to determine the mix of products. Markets that have a higher Hispanic population may have a higher mix of beverages that cater to this group. But they don't know that 'you' specifically bought their product.

    Nothing to see here...unless you're overly paranoid [but no one on /. is that way, right?]

  • by Dr.Enormous ( 651727 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:32PM (#8388083)
    Well, there's a few things you can do:

    1. Use somebody else's card. When you get one of those cards, they give you a couple copies. Friends will often just give them to you.
    2. Get one online. Seriously. I don't have the time to find a link, but there was that guy campaigning to make himself the #1 consumer of some grocery chain by giving away stickers with his barcode on them.

    Personally, I hate the things too (it's just such an obvious excuse to raise prices and track purchases), but don't have too much problem when the local store thinks it's my girlfriend who's loading up on beer.
  • Re:Wow you're right! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Hrothgar The Great ( 36761 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:38PM (#8388180) Journal
    Wrong. I love beer as well, and I find nothing really wrong at all with the taste of cheap beer. I love a wide range of tastes of beer, and cheap commercial beer has a distinct taste, especially among different brands, and they are among many others I enjoy. I like microbrews as well, but I also like the taste of Pabst Blue Ribbon and Old Style because they do not taste like other beers I drink and I am often in the mood for them.

    I do think it's snotty to crap on them because they're big and commercial, and I think you're all a bunch of god damn yuppies and beer snobs. No offense.
  • Re:Quite frankly... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Gorath99 ( 746654 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:39PM (#8388197)
    I am always amazed that Heineken [bottledbeer.co.uk] has such a better reputation than Budweiser. Personally I'd much rather not drink any beer at all than drink either of those.

    I'd much, much rather have a nice big glass of Hoegaarden [bottledbeer.co.uk] or Celis White [bottledbeer.co.uk]...

  • by msoftsucks ( 604691 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:41PM (#8388225)
    Just don't buy this brand of beer. Boycott them. Tell others to boycott them. Write letters to their CEO and upper management as to why you are not buying their beer. Write letters to the editors of newspapers. Post this on protect our freedoms [privacyrights.org].

    The reality is that as long as companies get a free pass on violating our rights, we will continue to lose them.
  • Re:Quite frankly... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DHR ( 68430 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:42PM (#8388235) Homepage
    I'd tend to agree, surely people don't prefer Bud by the taste, maybe they're just afraid to try something different? One of my favorite pub's (Jacks Bar, SF) has 80+ beers on tap, and if you ask the bartenders what the most popular beer is, guess what they'll say? Bud.
  • by DougWhite ( 72757 ) <.ten.hcetirema. .ta. .erylomba.> on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:46PM (#8388316)
    Back in my college days local bars used to sell 20 oz. cups of Bud Light for as low as 10 cents. I suspect similar dirt cheap A-B products at all college areas

    This has some interesting effects

    1. The college students can get drunk on a couple bucks
    2. College students acquire a taste for A-B
    3. Later in life college students pay a profitable rate on these products
    4. A-B sells a bajillion barrels of beer a year

    Looks a little like pushing a drug doesn't it? First hit is free, you pay for it the rest of your life
  • Re:Since when... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mahbidness ( 641513 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:50PM (#8388365) Homepage
    Maybe he's talking about the other Budweiser [enquirer.com].
  • Old hat (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Pig Hogger ( 10379 ) <pig.hogger@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:52PM (#8388396) Journal
    25 years ago, my first serious compute job was for a cigarette maker. They had that application where salesmen went through convenience stores, and recorded the placement of their ads, displays, promo. materials and the competition's.

    The salesmen filled mark-sense cards, which were sent to a contractor who gave back weekly reports (on reams of computer paper).

    We wanted to bring this back in-house. Naturally, we thought of using a portable computer for this. Of course, 25 years ago, nothing would do, so we brewed our own, based on a Motorola 8 bit chip.

    Trouble is, the thing was so big that we had to hide it in a book...

    Alas, as usual, politics canned the whole project, and we simply managed to buy a mark-sense reader to read the sheets in-house...

  • Re:Piggly-Wiggly? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Icculus ( 33027 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:55PM (#8388434)
    There's still one (exactly one) in Duluth, MN. The place keeps chugging along without any kind of upgrades/renovations. Still has the old school sign and everything.
  • Re:Wow you're right! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ooby ( 729259 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:56PM (#8388460)
    PBR is an award winning recipe! Says so on the label. There are a lot of bars in the Philly area that serve in its 16oz canned glory for $3. Some places offer the 12oz can with a shot of Jim Bean for $3, and in some rare places you can find it in a bottle.

    Another beer that has a bad rap is Schlitz. I guess because a case of beer is under $10, it has to taste like crap. Well, i could sell you a case of Schlitz for $20 if you really want me to. There are plenty of beers above the $16 mark that i absolutely deplore. I will refrain from listing them.
  • by rolofft ( 256054 ) <rolofftNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @02:19PM (#8388779)
    That's hilarious satire, friend. However, diparaging tasteless macrobrew isn't about elitism, it's about respecting beer [beeradvocate.com]. Brewing in the US is still recovering from prohibition which wiped out all our small breweries. Gourmet beer drinkers are succeeding in recultivating appreciation for craft brew in our country. In Germany, it would be false advertising to brew a rice-based beverage like Budweiser and call it beer.

    The gourmet coffee craze has changed the coffee industry. It's not just monocled Bentley owners who choose a $3 cup of gourmet aribica over a 30 cup of Folgers today. I see plenty of constuction workers at my local Starbucks. The same thing is happening to beer. My local grocery store now carries a $20 per bottle Belgian beer.
  • by Hussman32 ( 751772 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @02:30PM (#8388915)
    I agree with consensus that nobody should care about anonymous purchase stats, but I had heard recently that people's alcohol purchases on a grocery club card were used against him in a civil suit where he 'slipped on water' in the store.

    Maybe this person was a scammer, but it bugs me knowing that they track every item that I buy.
  • by babyrat ( 314371 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @02:31PM (#8388929)
    Don't know about other places, but all the stores here in Phoenix that I've been to don't check the info on your saver card 'application'. My dogs buy a lot of groceries - not sure where they take them though, because the address they used does not exist...
  • by OneFix at Work ( 684397 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @02:34PM (#8388965)
    And even if personal data-mining is possible it's no guarantee it will be used. For example, the EZ-TAG scanners on the toll roads you take can easilly compute your average speed between toll booths and issue you a speeding ticket if you were speeding but they don't. Why? Because the toll road comissioners would be voted out of office if they allowed that.

    There's an even easier reason why they don't start doing this...drivers would simply start paying at the tolls instead of using the convenience of the scanners...which the .gov wants to encourage, because it means they have to pay one less attendant...I guess they could avoid this by requiring a barcode on all license plates and aiming their equipment at the license plate, but this would be a big expense to the taxpayers...

    I would be more concerned what someone finds out when you buy that car (most require a credit check) than the fact that your EZ-PASS can "snitch" on you...

    Of course, the big one that concerns me is On-Star. They keep running commercials with people being helped by the On-Star reps, but have you seen the one where the guy locks his keys in the car and the rep unlocks the door...what keeps someone from spoofing the signal or better yet, hooking up with an On-Star rep to unlock a car and steal it...
  • by bezuwork's friend ( 589226 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @02:48PM (#8389157)
    I'm attempting to write a paper just now tangentially related to privacy issues, so it is on my mind. Let me raise a few ideas on the contention that we never had anonymity.

    What you say is correct. But also, in times past, there wasn't the ability to store information as there is today. Sure, records were kept (and I'm grateful, I've used store records several hundreds of years old in genealogy research - it is fun to see what your ancestors bought), but they were handwritten, on paper likely a little more dear in value than paper is today. So not everything got written down. Which is why genealogical research can't go back beyond several hundred years geneally, maybe to 1066 for English ancestors. It was simply too expensive, too unimportant, or too troublesome, for records to be kept on daily activities, unless you descend from somebody famous or wealthy. So my first point is

    (1) The cost of keeping records, not only financially, but in busywork, meant that much less was tracked.

    Additionally, as you point out, customers likely knew the shopkeeper personally, and very well at that. It was the nature of the infrastructure of the day. For most people, it is likely that noone knew about them outside of a radius of 10 miles or so (except family/freinds from places they migrated from, naturally) - there simply was no reason to benefit to knowing this. Thus,

    (2) any use made of a person's personal information would be likely known to the person, or at least, the person would be local to the perpetrator and could more easily see the results of the use. There simply was not the chance of long-distance identity theft such as is so well documented with our present infrastructure.

    Additionally,

    (3) With surveillance cameras and recording of their signals, etc., there is alot of records being made of aspects of our life which, while publically available in the past, were not recorded. Thus our actions, while public, had a certain nonpermanence about them which is rapidly eroding away.

    I have a freind who is very concerned about this last point. He has come up with a doctrine he thinks should be incorporated into our jurisprudence - the doctrine of forgettability. He argues that while our actions in public have no legal "expectation of privacy", we did have a de facto situation where our actions were forgotten as they were not permanently recorded. Surveillance cameras, ATM and credit card transaction recordings, and on and on mean that our behavior is recorded whereas it would have been 'forgotten' in times past.

    As a last point, (4) increased permanence of records

    The last point is debatable, perhaps, as computer records are more easily deleted, too. There is likely a ton of information recorded and later deleted. But with backups, redundency, etc. I bet many of our records last longer than records of the past.

    Overall, our records are more detailed than at any point in history, more accessible to 3rd parties than at any time in history, more accessible from long distances, and, likely, more permanent than ever before.

    We may have not had anonymity before, but the lack of anonymity was localized. Localized in time, localized in space, and what information did last through time or was available to 3rd parties or parties at long distances away was much, much less than what is available to such parties today.

    The week after 911, we had a discussion in a class, one of my colleagues/costudents stated he thought we are now in an era where privacy will have to be thrown out for the public good, an age of non-privacy, if you will.

    Is he right? Seems we are well on the road in that direction.

  • Re:Credit card fees (Score:3, Interesting)

    by cens0r ( 655208 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @02:49PM (#8389170) Homepage
    try offering to pay cash instead of using a card next time you have a large purchase somewhere. Chances are you can get them to knock a few % of the cost. If you know what the processing fees are, you can really use this to your advantage.
  • Re:A public DARE!! (Score:1, Interesting)

    by dillon_rinker ( 17944 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @02:54PM (#8389236) Homepage
    Are you a teacher? Are you an elected official or some other public servant? Are you a member of a church? Did you recently turn 21 and have friends who are under 21? Do you own a car for which you must purchase insurance?

    We don't want drunks in our schools. Or in our government. Or in our church. You are likely to be providing alcohol with minors. Please come down to the station for some questioning. You're more likely than a teetotaller to be a drunk driver so we're raising your rates.

    And even if YOU don't fit in any of those categories, surely you're not so devoid of the milk of human kindness that you'd wish ill on those who ARE in thos categories.

    To answer your question directly:
    The worst thing that can result from data about you being made publicly available is that the government will feed that public data into their anti-terrorist algorithms and determine that you may be a terrorist. Until false positives are eliminated, the only cure is total privacy protection.
  • by sbma44 ( 694130 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @03:27PM (#8389632)
    But at this point I think it's obvious that Americans don't drink the same kind of beer as Europeans. We seem to like light-bodied lagers a lot more. While bud uses rice (and corn), it uses it to produce a beer that's at least a solid example of, and perhaps the definition of, an American Lager. I've spoken to some folks who know a thing about brewing; they may not want to brew bud themselves, but they speak in respectful terms of the consistency between batches that Budweiser turns out. To do so on such a large scale is quite a trick.

    I'm not personally a fan of Bud, but I think most of the people crapping on it in this thread are doing so out of simple elitism. Most likely prefer beers that have been marketed to them as "sophisticated" like the hopped-to-hell-and-back Heineken, or, god forbid, Amstel, which seems to trade entirely on a fake European heritage to excuse the fact that it tastes like licking a skunk.

  • by cens0r ( 655208 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @03:27PM (#8389638) Homepage
    because it held up to shipping long distances. at the turn of the century getting beer from point a to point b wasn't easy and it often went bad. The beers were formulated to last longer. The same can be said of IPAs. They were designed to travel from england to india. Some like bud, some like IPA's. Taste is subjective.
  • Re:A public DARE!! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @04:08PM (#8390120)
    If I wanted to "out" a public figure, I'd go after their ...

    ... supermarket cards. Some years back, there were a couple of interesting cases.

    In one, part of the evidence cops used to convict a crack pusher was his grocery card, which documented insane amounts of baggie purchases.

    In another, some geezer slipped in the aisle in Von's. When they gave him grief about compensation, he threatened a lawsuit. They, in turn, threatened to enter into evidence records of every fifth of Jim Beam he'd ever purchased there, even though he was dead sober when the fall occurred. Fortunately the story got out and there was sufficient public outrage to get the store to back off.

    Some years back, I lost track of the Safeway card. Neither of my phone numbers would call it up. Instead of asking for a new app, the clerk picked one out of a drawer, swiped it and gave it to me. I've used it ever since. I have no idea who gets the credit for the accumulated purchases, but I no longer get any mailings from them at home. Maybe it's a scam where she has them made out to her family members. If so, good thing -- anything to mess up Safeway.

  • Re:Wow you're right! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @04:23PM (#8390270) Homepage Journal
    The problem with budweiser isn't the fact that it's associated with rednecks. The problem with it (and with all other big name beers) is that it's brewed in giant vats and usually contains well over 50% adjuncts as opposed to barley; corn, rice, wheat, etc. All the big american beers are pilsners because pilsner is easy to brew and responds relatively well to the inclusion of adjuncts, which is what made it the de facto standard of bootleg beer during prohibition. After prohibition was repealed people just kept making pilsners, because americans were used to drinking them, and everyone who made real beer (apologies to the real pilsners out there) had gone out of business.

    Microbrewing has brought about an American beer renaissance in which other styles of beer are being made again and sold at tolerably reasonable prices, though it still costs three or four times as much to drink good beer as crappy beer.

  • by iamhassi ( 659463 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @04:55PM (#8390656) Journal
    "...Anheuser servers most likely recorded what you paid, when that beer was brewed, whether you purchased it warm or chilled, and whether you could have gotten a better deal down the street.' Frankly, I don't want Budweiser knowing when I choose to buy their beer versus another brands." "

    um, why not? Don't they have a right to know what people are paying for their beer, or where it's purchased from? That's incredibly valueable information to determine where advertising dollars should go, if prices are competitive, what types of beer customers prefer, and a long list of other factors I couldn't even dream of. If anything this is a very good thing as it can only help Anheuser determine what to do to get you to purchase there products by giving you what you want, and to figure out what you want they must first determine if you like your beer warm or chilled, etc.

  • by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @05:54PM (#8391379)
    There's no personal data being collected here.

    When they figure out how to track which of my ATM withdrawals are going to weed, cocaine, mushrooms, acid, or other such fun enhancers, then I'll be concerned.

    Budweiser knowing how their stock is flowing concerns me not.

"Ninety percent of baseball is half mental." -- Yogi Berra

Working...