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The Internet Businesses Privacy Your Rights Online

BudNet Tracks Your Suds 712

An anonymous reader writes "CNN is carrying a story about Budweiser's national internal sales tracking network called BudNET. It allows Anheuser-Busch to instantly track sales across the country, and 'If Anheuser-Busch loses shelf space in a store in Clarksville, Tennessee, they know it right away.' It brings up some interesting privacy issues, because according to the article 'The last time you bought a six-pack of Bud Light at the Piggly Wiggly, Anheuser servers most likely recorded what you paid, when that beer was brewed, whether you purchased it warm or chilled, and whether you could have gotten a better deal down the street.' Frankly, I don't want Budweiser knowing when I choose to buy their beer versus another brands."
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BudNet Tracks Your Suds

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  • by elflet ( 570757 ) * <.ten.noitseuqtxen. .ta. .telfle.> on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:14PM (#8387745)
    According to the article "They're drilling down to the level of the individual store," Thompson says. "They can pinpoint if customers are gay, Latino, 30-year-old, college-educated conservatives.

    They do that in two ways (again, according to the article): a "nightly sweep of their distributors' databases" and 2) on-site visits by sales reps who notice how the store is set up, whether it's selling room-temp or chilld beer (or both), and probably noting the class of customers.

    Despite Michael's concerns, there's nothing in there about tying to individual customer purchases or even getting explicit sales data on competitors' products.

  • Oh no! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Rura Penthe ( 154319 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:15PM (#8387759)
    Yes, who knows what sinister things Bud will do with information they legally gleaned. Of course legal doesn't necessarily mean moral or right, but in this case I fail to see how Anheuser-Busch is going to violate your rights or do anything with the modicum of information they gather. Hell, I can't even find any info in the article that points to anything about tying a purchase to an individual rather than a store.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:17PM (#8387814)
    I'm not going to defend michael, but he didn't add any editorial to the story (this time). The concerns were of the submitter.
  • Re:Quite frankly... (Score:4, Informative)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:21PM (#8387867) Homepage Journal
    I had a few pints of ale last night (Mardi Gras, ya know :o) and have no worries about privacy issues with regard to Spudweiser. For one, I don't drink their 'beer' as it tastes like water compared to my usual tipple.

    I can understand their interest in better tracking of inventory, but it done be amazing the lengths they go for profit other than to improve their brands. I'm sure they, like Miller and others, picked up a few microbreweries during the boom in the 90's, but if they watered them down like their own flagship brand then it's a self-defeating measure. (Budweiser shorts on expensive malted barley, using 40% rice)

    I've known enough people who work in stores (or have worked for distributors) and the pressure for sales space (particularly at the expense of competitors) usually is waged with inducements, like clocks, TV's, trips to the Super Bowl, etc.

    After all the advertising, all the tactics, all the analysis, it's still like Eric Idle said. It's worth pointing out to Bud fans, who stand by their 'beer' like it's Mom, Apple Pie and the Flag, that this company didn't become hugely profitable by following the Reinheitsgebot.

  • by cyberlotnet ( 182742 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:22PM (#8387902) Homepage Journal
    People.. Read the article fully. They track the BEER, not the person. Information like that is extremely important for the marketing of a product.

    This information allows them to know there market, plan shipments and various other usefull things.

    But instead you would prefer to assume they are tracking how many brain killing gulps of beer your drinking so they know when your drunk enough to use there super secret beer tracking brain scanner to download your life and the history of your poor sex life.
  • by frovingslosh ( 582462 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:23PM (#8387917)
    Just pay with cash and they'll never know it was you!

    Unfortunately, at a growing number of stores, including every single grocery store in my area, thay want you to carry and use a card that identifies you to the system even if you do pay cash. Of course, you can not cary a card, but then you don't get any of the sale prices, and more and more items seem to be "on sale". Of course, the sale prices are still higher than the items were before the cards, and higher than the items are in areas where they don't have the cards. So yes, you can pay cash, but be prepaired to pay a few bucks extra if you want to retain your privacy.

  • by -tji ( 139690 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:27PM (#8388003) Journal
    This is not big brother trying to control you life.. This is a company trying to do the best job of marketing they can. They are putting together as much data as they can, to market and sell their product as efficiently as they can.

    Their not tieing this to a record of an individual person. They are not providing the data to the "Office of Homeland Security" to determine who the terrorist / non-bud-drinkers are..

    They're just trying to see who is buying their beer.

    Then, they'll use that data to more effectively target the low-income urban minorities, to keep them under the yoke of "The Man".
  • by dwm ( 151474 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:28PM (#8388010)
    Read. The. Article.

    Bud is using Information Resources, Inc., which compiles register scan info. This includes those little barcoded keychain dongles that let you get special discounts -- you know, the ones you filled out a form with your personal information to get?

    So, no, Bud can't trace EVERY beer purchase to the individual. And they most likely don't really care which particular individuals buy stuff, they're looking at demographic trends. But data on retail sales to individuals, and personal information abou those individuals IS in the system. That's how they get some of their demographics.

    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
  • by Performer Guy ( 69820 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:29PM (#8388039)
    Geeze it's just inventory tracking. There's no "you" in the tracking so give it a rest. I'm sick of this idiotic scaremongering over these non-issues. Companies have a right to track their inventory and always have. This is just tracking to point of sale over the country. It's not merely anonymous tracking it's amorphous, there's no distinction between any of the buyers, they're tracking beer not people and they absolutely have a right to do that.
  • Give it a Rest (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:29PM (#8388042)
    "Frankly, I don't want Budweiser knowing when I choose to buy their beer versus another brands."

    THey don't know ANYTHING about 'you.' They are just tracking the sales of their product. This has NOTHING to do with individual customers, this is just 'what do 'people' like.'

    Getting worried that this is a privacy concern is insane. Would you rather the manufacturers and retailers tried to 'spam' you with products that they have no idea if you like or not?

    This much information is great, since it's 'individual agnostic.' It's about the beer (temperature, placement, etc), not the buyer.
  • Begs the Question... (Score:5, Informative)

    by The Ape With No Name ( 213531 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:31PM (#8388070) Homepage
    Why would you drink Bud anyway? What a shitty beer. For all you non-USAians, contrary to popular belief, there are excellent beers in the States. Only Sheeple drink A-B and SAB (Miller) products. Disclamer: my father was a 25-year employee at Miller as a plant manager, and I grew up drinking Miller products. They are awful. I don't care if it paid the wages and for college. Man, is Miller Lite an abomination....

    Something tells me that if people were to actually expand their horizons on the beer front, they would discover the Sierra Nevadas, Shiners and such that have nationwide markets and comprable pricing to Bud ($9 a 12-er compared to $11 a 12-er for Shiner). Guess what? These are small companies (relative to A-B) who are not going to fool with BudNETing your habit.

    BEER: The cause of, and the solution to, all of life's problems -- HJS.
  • by switcha ( 551514 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:37PM (#8388157)
    thay want you to carry and use a card that identifies you to the system even if you do pay cash. Of course, you can not cary a card,

    Or just download, print and apply the the Ultimate Shopper's [cockeyed.com] number and get your sale prices whilst still donning your tin foil apparel.

  • by Chasuk ( 62477 ) <chasuk@gmail.com> on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:40PM (#8388204)
    Of course, the sale prices are still higher than the items were before the cards,

    Bullshit. I've worked in retail for many years, and instituted customer loyalty cards myself (which is what these cards are referred to in the biz), and what you are claiming is complete crap.

    and higher than the items are in areas where they don't have the cards.

    See above.
  • by ejaw5 ( 570071 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:45PM (#8388281)
    http://www.cockeyed.com/pranks/safeway/ultimate_sh opper.html

    That's the guy you were probalby talking about. "Together we might amass a profile of the single greatest shopper in the history of mankind."
  • by oneiros27 ( 46144 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:45PM (#8388295) Homepage
    For that matter, most of the folks in the military. You see, the simple fact is, alcohol is expensive. And the great thing about alcohol is, the more you drink of it, the less you care about it.

    So, typically, you get a case or two of the stuff you like to drink, and a case or two of something cheap. [exact numbers vary by the number of people involved, their prefered drinking habits, and at what point in the night they become incoherent]

    As people get more loaded, you give 'em the crappy stuff. They don't really care. This enables you to get some good stuff, and some crap, rather than settling on the mediocre middle ground for everything.
  • Re:Since when... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Waffle Iron ( 339739 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:50PM (#8388371)
    Oh, you are asking, since when Anheuser-Busch sold beer? I really don't know.

    According to AB's website [budweiser.ca], Anheuser got into the business in 1852, and Budweiser beer was introduced in 1876.

    I took a tour of one of their large breweries many years ago. Their history is actually pretty interesting; it was one of the first nationally mass-marketed products of any kind. The story was more about how they pioneered the use of refrigerated railroad cars and distribution channels than about the beer itself. (IIRC, their style of beer, which has influenced most mass market American beers, was developed to better survive the rigors of long shipments in the 18th century.)

    Once they had the distribution system established, they were able to use economies of scale to squeeze out most of the local brewers in each market. Only in the 1980s did local brewing recover after it was found that many people would indeed pay a premium for a variety of choice.

  • by unsigned integer ( 721338 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:55PM (#8388442)
    No one is offering drinking solutions to the poor people who don't know any better. So here's my "Recommended replacement beers" for when you find yourself erroneously reaching for a 6 pack of Bud Ice.

    Pyramid Hefeweisen(sp?) - a light beer, but with a lot more character and a better taste.
    Spaten/Spaten Optimator - german consumer beer with at least some character.
    Ommegang - a somewhat darker and richer beer with a great, interesting taste. Try it.
    Arrogant Bastard - A real beer drinker's beer.

    All of these should be found at a Beverages and More! or your local equivalent.

    I used to be a Guinness drinker, but the dark/heavy drinks became a little too much for me - especially when you're trying to have a meal with your drink. Shit, I don't have room for dessert because I had that Guinness!.

    Others, please feel free to add your beer recommendations for Bud replacements!

  • B*tch, b*tch (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:56PM (#8388453)
    1. Read the fine article--no one tracks what beer you buy

    2. If you are worried about someone watching your spending habits, use cash.
  • by shking ( 125052 ) <babulicm@cuug.ab.LISPca minus language> on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @01:57PM (#8388475) Homepage
    The last time you bought a six-pack of Bud Light at the Piggly Wiggly, Anheuser servers most likely recorded what you paid, when that beer was brewed, whether you purchased it warm or chilled, and whether you could have gotten a better deal down the street.
    ...but they didn't track who you are, only where and how the beer was bought. In other words: you are not trackable. So what's the privacy problem?
  • by Simonetta ( 207550 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @02:00PM (#8388515)
    Yes, the Albertson's chain went to a customer ID card about eight months ago. I suspected at the time that it was a way to raise the general level of prices on all the items without pissing off all their customers at the same time.
    This is more-or-less what has happened. If you use a card (the cashier scans the barcode on the plastic card) then you get the sale items at about 20% less than the standard price. But at normal price, almost every item in the store is 20% higher than the other stores in the area.
    In my neighborhood there are seven major grocery stores within a mile radius of my apartment, so I can take advantage of weekly sales.

    That is, if I can find out about these weekly sales. I want to be able to go to a website and find out what each store is having on sale this week, and, what the normal non-sale cost is for each item for each store.

    The stores treat this information like it was top-secret military data. They threaten anyone who records prices for comparison with arrest. There are signs all over the stores: "No cameras", "no notebooks".
    Such contempt for the general public makes me very uncomfortable whenever I go into grocery stores nowdays. I've reduced my shopping at Safeway by about 95% and at Albertson's by at least 60% in the past year. The checkers are amiable but extremely slow. The management is scientifically selected to be crypto-fascist pinhead morons and the whole experience of 'doing' these stores is unpleasent. And I'm just a normal shopper: not a shoplifter or scammer.

    The worst grocery store in the country has got to be Safeway. They constantly do bait-and-switch with items that are advertised at reduced price only to have you pay extra at checkout because the fine print shows that the item was not the sale item. Like for example, big signs saying that "Flavor Fresh" brand frozen peas are 79 cents for a pound. So you grab a pack only to be charged $1.29 at the register. Turns out that the peas you grabbed were "FlavorPac" brand which looks like exactly the same package AND was placed directly under the sign saying "Flavor Fresh" peas were on sale.

    This happened to me so many times at Safeway that I call it the 'Safeway Shuffle' at the checkout; where they send someone back to check the price when you complain that you were overcharged. I was at the point where I was bringing a caliper to measure the width of the barcode line and comparing it to the barcode on the sale announcement, when I realized that there was a simpler and more elegant solution. Just get the fuck out of Safeway and don't go back!
    I'm still amazed that they're still in business. But many places in California, they're the only store for miles around.

    So, yes, I'm pissed that companies are collecting all this information about customers without allowing the customers to use it for their benefit. The internet really has changed everything: people really do expect a mutually benefitial relationship from all this information gathering.

    This is the point that the business and management people just don't seem to understand. In the coming years, companies that share information with their customers will prosper and those that hoard and hide information will not.
  • by purdue_thor ( 260386 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @02:03PM (#8388567)
    Here's an interesting twist... the tinfoils in the crowd are assuming that Budweiser wants to track individuals with this. But that opens a can of worms for the beer distributors! See, then the Govt. could easily see who is selling to minors just by looking at Bud's database. There's no way the stores or the Beer companies want that data out. The beer companies have been doing well to push the whole "you must be 21 to buy" thing, but that step would make them now accountable.

    2.) This would also make it easy to see who sold the beer that the drunk driver was drinking when he smashed his car into a school bus, further opening up the distributors to possible litigation in our sue-happy society.
  • perfect information (Score:1, Informative)

    by insanely_mad ( 636449 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @02:09PM (#8388633)
    perfect information is one of the basic economic principles, so not letting BUD know about your buying behavior is like opposing free trade; it creates market inefficiencies that ultimately lead to waste and products not accurately suited for the market. The key issue, is that if this information is at the expense of privacy, BUD is essentially taking a valuable consumer asset without reimbursement or consent. This raises moral and ethical issues that should be put into public debate before this practice is widespread.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @02:15PM (#8388717)
    As everyone should know, "Budweiser" by Anheuser-Busch is a schoolbook case of trademark piracy. The very name refers to town of Budweis in Czech Republic, just as "Pilsener" refers to Pilsen. And they _DO_ make decent beer in Budweis.

    My theory is that whenever there is a batch brewed in the Budvar or Budweiser Burgerbrau, the fermentation tanks are cleansed by CIP procedure. The rinsing solution is then collected, tanked and shipped to St. Louis, US. Anheuser-Busch then adds in some ethanol to raise its alcohol contents to close 5% by volume.

    That also explains why the Yank Bud tastes like dish-washing water.

    Frankly, Americans should make cars and Czech should make beer. Skoda isn't a car and Anheuser-Busch Budweiser isn't a beer.
  • Re:Wow you're right! (Score:3, Informative)

    by stoolpigeon ( 454276 ) <bittercode@gmail> on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @02:32PM (#8388945) Homepage Journal
    actually the cheap 1.5 liter bottles of vodka you see all over the place are usually very watered down.

  • script (Score:3, Informative)

    by ArmorFiend ( 151674 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @03:30PM (#8389687) Homepage Journal
    Hey, that sounds like fun!

    t h E Q U Ickb r o wn F o x j u M P e d O Ver T Hel a Z Y D og
    the Qu i ck B RO w n f o X Ju mpE d o v e R t he l az y dog

    Now the problem is, I can't get the 13 line script through the lameness filters. Well, hell, get it from here [66.93.230.14] then run it with:
    clisp -q -i ransom-note.lisp -x "(ransom-note \"my dog has fleas\")"

    (the file I said to download is just a text file, not really an executable like the webserver says.)
  • Re:Quite frankly... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Archfeld ( 6757 ) * <treboreel@live.com> on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @03:57PM (#8389993) Journal
    They are forbidden by Fed regs from utilizing part of it, sensitive info you supply as part of signing up, etc, referred to as non-experience data. They do share everything else with NCAG, the National Consumer Advertising Group. We dump the info into a HUGE 50+ node Teradata 5200 and let the pinhead (L)users go crazy submitting queries. BTW the patypoint network is ALSO owned by the same big bank I work for and all the data..IE grocery transactions are captured that way as well. If you want to avoid the grocery card tracking just use a common phone number say popcorn, SOMEONE is sure to have reg'd it and you can access your so-called profile by keyying in your # number as well. I always get strange looks because whomever did it here used Mrs Neusbaum, wonder if they had a voucher, obscure movie reference a free bonus.
    Treading water in Calif. for the time being. Any FDIC insured, thus regulated instituition is required by law to provide a PRIVACY POLICY and INFORMATION SHARING document for user view.
  • by spiedrazer ( 555388 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @04:24PM (#8390273) Homepage
    You can get a 'discount' card at almost all of the chains that utilize them even if you give them NO personal info. They just track your habits as a single anonomous purchaser, which is still valuable data. This is no different than the AB tracking that started this whole thing.

  • by Professor Bluebird ( 529952 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @04:33PM (#8390385)
    A grocery store near me has those. It's a mechanism that locks up that wheel when it is taken off the store's property.
    Also, the wheel would be a bad place to put a RFID transmitter. The movement and vibration around there, as well as the fact that transmission distance would be limited by being near the ground, mean that there would be better places for it.
  • Re:Wow you're right! (Score:2, Informative)

    by DrewMIT ( 98823 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @04:37PM (#8390415)
    um... if it were watered down, it would be a lower proof and would be marked on the bottle. Most vodkas are around 80 proof. Occasionally you'll see a product in larger liquor stores called "light vodka" that is actually watered down. The big 1.5L bottle of Poland Spring (yes they make liquor.. horrid stuff) will get you just as fucked up as the 1.5L of Grey Goose or other premium vodka. Sure you can taste a difference, but that has nothing to do w/ alcohol content,
  • by haroldnjoe ( 206145 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @04:46PM (#8390541)
    I am the network admin for a not-too-small Anheuser-Busch distributor. I can tell you a little about BudNET and how it tracks sales, from my experience. The original post states that AB most likely records your sale, what you paid, etc. As far as I know this is not the case in most operations. AB gets sales info from a distribution point of view. That means that they know what we, the warehouse, sold to the Piggly Wiggly, not what Piggly Wiggly sold to you, the retail consumer. When next we visit that Piggly Wiggly, we take an inventory. So in that regard AB also knows what the store sold between our visits, but not to whom.

    All of the information that AB gets about sales comes from the distributors. A big part of my day is spent getting reports ready to go up to AB. The reports mention customer numbers, but these are *our* customers, not actual consumers. In some more advanced sales systems, retail pricing is indeed tracked. This type of information is used by AB and its distributors to do forcasting and the like. It is important to point out here that only retail stores who want to do so provide their own pricing and sales information to us. Most mom & pop operations don't bother. Many larger chains wich resources do provide this, as it also helps *them* to forcast. Once again though, we have no way of knowing what individuals are purchasing, or who those individuals are.

    Also important to note is that much of our record keeping is mandated by law. The alcholic beverage commision in our state requires that we keep certain records on file for a given amount of time. This may be in addition to anything AB requires of us.

    From the perspective of a network admin, BudNET is a pain in the rear. But I think that calling them Big Brother may be a little off the mark. Hope this helps to alleviate any major privacy concerns that you may have.

    -haroldnjoe
  • Re:Quite frankly... (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @06:05PM (#8391516)
    I work for a bank processor. I can definitely say that any U.S. financial institution can not release your personal information. The most specific set of laws regarding this is the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA). http://www.epic.org/privacy/glba/ As for compliance, if your bank or credit union is FDIC insured, they ARE audited regularly. GLBA compliance is one of the criteria that is looked at in an audit.
  • Here's The DEAL: (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 25, 2004 @08:34PM (#8392936)
    It's not that they gather the data. It's who they share it with.

    What happens when I buy a pack of cigarettes, or 15-pack of GUINNESS, then a week later my Health Insurance Company tells me that my premium is doubling because I engaged in the purchase (and presumed consumption) of items that may be hazardous to my health,(their investment), and the health of others?

    It's not a matter of if . It's a matter of WHEN. :wq!

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