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TeacherReviews.com Forced Offline 664

MrCawfee writes "Dylan Greene's site Teacher Reviews which allows students to post reviews of their professors. The site was taken down because a professor complained about comments made against him, and threatened to sue. Here is an exerpt from his blog: 'Yesterday and tonight I talked with a professor who was extremely upset with what written about him on TeacherReviews. He had several inappropriate reviews that made unfounded accusations and inappropriate untruthful remarks such as calling him "Bipolar Paranoid Schitzophrenic."' You can read his blog here."
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TeacherReviews.com Forced Offline

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  • Schools (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:00PM (#8244802)
    Some schools endorsed this. If you google, some schools even link to it [k12.oh.us]
  • by a.koepke ( 688359 ) on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:01PM (#8244810)
    What happened to TeacherReviews?

    TeacherReviews.com is free site I run for students which lets students share opinions of professors with other students. I have been pressured to shut it down. I'm not sure if it will be down forever or just a short amount of time until some changes are made. Please read on to find out why and what I am going to do about it.

    Yesterday and tonight I talked with a professor who was extremely upset with what written about him on TeacherReviews. He had several inappropriate reviews that made unfounded accusations and inappropriate untruthful remarks such as calling him "Bipolar Paranoid Schitzophrenic." These reviews should not have been on the site.

    I immediately deleted this professor's reviews, as I always do those rare times that a professor complains. He still threatened to sue - and even threatened to get the involvement of the teacher's union American Federation of Teachers. A lawsuit is not something I have the time or money to be involved in, no matter how confident I am that the courts would side in the favor of free speech and the site.

    This would be the first lawsuit against TeacherReviews, however TeacherReview, the precursor site to TeacherReviews had one lawsuit against in about four years ago. TeacherReview had a "no review is ever deleted" policy. The ACLU helped defend TeacherReview, and TeacherReview achieved a victory - the two professors involved settled just days before the San Francisco Superior Court hearing .

    The purpose of Teacher Reviews has always been to help students find the best professors to take, however the quality and reliability of TeacherReviews has been diminished by the few users who have used the site to write insults, accusations, remarks that can be considered slanderous.

    As I find about about these reviews, I always delete them. They no have merit, are not helpful to anyone, and are obviously the product of a bored student who just wants to harm the reputation of a professor. That is not the purpose of TeacherReviews.

    There are over 36,000 reviews on the site - far too many for me to read and evaluate. Because of this, and the threat of lawsuit, I have elected to take down TeacherReviews.com for now - at least until I can make some needed changes to how the site works.

    Here are some of the changes I hope to put in place:

    * Instant review removal. As a rule, I have always removed reviews upon a professor's request. Today the system is manual and it is not obvious enough how it works. The new system will have a link for removing reviews next to every review. Anybody will be able to instantly remove inappropriate reviews. Some friends and I will evaluate these removed reviews.
    * Easy professor removal. I believe professors should have the right to make their reviews be private. A professor will have the ability to hide all reviews from public view. Reviews posted will be emailed to that professor, but not shared with the rest of the world. The number of reviews and possibility other information will remain on the site.
    * Hide Reviews from Google. One of the complaints I got from a the professor was that if you searched Google for his name, his reviews would show up pretty high in the list of found items. Normally this is a good thing, but if the reviews are inappropriate, then it is not approbate for the to be showing up in Google.
    * Email notification of New Reviews. Professors should not have to regularly visit TeacherReviews to see if they have new reviews posted. This feature will give them the option of receiving email when new reviews are posted. Students will be able to use this feature as well. New reviews will also be available via RSS.
    * Date-separated reviews. Today reviews that are two years old and older are listed along side of recent reviews. Since people change, I believe that these older reviews need to be identified as older reviews, and be put on a separate page.

    These features I'm not sure about:
  • Ebay precedent? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Neppy ( 673459 ) on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:02PM (#8244834)
    Didn't Ebay just win a case that said they are not liable for the statements posted by users?
    Wouldn't this logically apply to teacher reviews and make them nonliable for things posted by their users?
  • E-Bay... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:04PM (#8244856)
    E-Bay just won a court case where they were found to not be responsible for user feedback. Specifically not being responsible for policing or even being required to remove false feedback.

    Just a few days later teacherreviews.com caves in? Typical.
  • Polyratings (Score:5, Informative)

    by Shaklee39 ( 694496 ) on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:06PM (#8244889)
    Here at calpoly [calpoly.edu] we have a third party ratings system at http://www.polyratings.com [polyratings.com] which does almost the same thing. I was looking on it the other day and there are comments about how they want a teacher to die, just random profanity unrelated to the class, among others. The site has not been taken down, nor has it even removed these comments which are still up for everyone to see. Anyone with a half brain ignores these comments and just goes to the next one anyways since they are probably from a disgruntled student who couldn't make the grade.
  • by MichaelCrawford ( 610140 ) on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:07PM (#8244895) Homepage Journal
    I think it's wrong that calling somebody that could be construed as an insult.

    I've been working for quite some time to change that.

  • Re:Other sites? (Score:3, Informative)

    by John Courtland ( 585609 ) on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:07PM (#8244902)
    ratemyprofessors.com [ratemyprofessors.com]
  • one example... (Score:2, Informative)

    by tsunamifirestorm ( 729508 ) on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:08PM (#8244917) Homepage
    is ucsdprofessor.com good site for me (as a UCSD student obviously) and it would be cool if all universities had things like this.
  • Re:1st Amendment? (Score:1, Informative)

    by the_2nd_coming ( 444906 ) on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:09PM (#8244932) Homepage
    I hate morons like you. the first amendment just protects people from the government, NOT private citizens or companies.

    that is why boycotts of the stars at events durring the war were legal. you can say what ever you like and the government will not touch you (out side what thurgood marshal set forth about dangerouse speech). but that does not mean you are free from paying consequenses for what you say from other non-governmental groups or individuals.
  • by PhyreFox ( 576728 ) on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:11PM (#8244952) Homepage
    Bipolar: Relating to a major affective disorder that is characterized by episodes of mania and depression.

    Paranoid: Exhibiting or characterized by extreme and irrational fear or distrust of others.

    Schizophrenic: Of, relating to, or characterized by the coexistence of disparate or antagonistic elements.

    Now considering I'm not a psychologist, I don't know about #1 and #3, but as the comments were deleted and he still threatened to sue, the "paranoid" label sounds appropriate.
  • Re:Prerequisite (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:12PM (#8244966)
    Your post gave me an idea, why not search google for those terms.. but the only luck I had was using bi-polar [google.com]. There's no cache, but you can see the teacher's names, so could this be the guy?

    David Corey Professor of Science (other) Overall Rating: F Reviews: 2 Classes: 2 Review this professor. Bi-polar ,boring asshole. Overall Grade: F, ...
  • by tarth ( 445054 ) on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:16PM (#8245002)
    That's not insightful. Read what he said... even after removing the offending content the professor still threatened a lawsuit.
  • Re:Legal? (Score:5, Informative)

    by cpt kangarooski ( 3773 ) on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:22PM (#8245053) Homepage
    Actually, slander is by definition spoken. When printed or published, it is libel.

    Secondly, the method that libel is disseminated is in fact of the upmost importance these days. Thanks to the one teeny tiny good (and constitutional) bit of the infamous CDA, it is legal for people providing services on the Internet (e.g. fora) to have libellous statements therein.

    The originator of the libel can be sued -- but no suit can be brought against the web site where the libel resides.

    The professor hasn't got a leg to stand on, and the site -- and the offensive comments -- need to go back up.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:24PM (#8245069)
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
    Nobody is accusing the Congress of passing a law abrigding the web site's freedom of speech (or press?), so the Constitutional protection is not directly relevant. In America you can sue anybody for anything, and the threat of the expense of defending a lawsuit is not mentioned in the Constitution.
  • It's going back up. (Score:5, Informative)

    by MacGabhain ( 198888 ) on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:37PM (#8245166)
    Somewhat ironic timing on the information from a week ago, as today's blog entry is that the site is being completely rewritten with some changes to address these concerns and will be back up soon.

    February 10th blog entry [dylangreene.com]

    In part:
    TeacherReviews.com is coming back, and it's going to be better than ever - for both students and professors.
    The professor who threatened a lawsuit has decided to drop the case. This happened after we talked about the situation, the site as it is today, and the intent of the site, which has always been to help students, as opposed to insult professors. This professor is now helping the site by providing feedback to the new features from a professor's point of view, which is something I have not looked into before.

  • Re:Schools (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:43PM (#8245218)
    University of Texas already does this, it allows students and professors to view these end-of-semester surveys with numerical data for all categories. link [utexas.edu]
  • by YrWrstNtmr ( 564987 ) on Tuesday February 10, 2004 @11:43PM (#8245219)
    The site was taken down because a professor complained about comments made against him, and threatened to sue.

    No. The site was taken down because the site owner caved (temporarily) in the face of a potential lawsuit. There was no legal decision, no jackbooted thugs at the door, no massive DoS attack, no trashing the First Amendment.

    The site owner took it down himself. And it appears it will be coming back online [dylangreene.com], with some form of moderation.
  • by madmancarman ( 100642 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @12:09AM (#8245422)
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but anonymous teacher rating sites are largely worthless because, with no accountability, there's no reason for anyone to be truthful, whether they're supportive or critical. We've seen the effect anonymity has on people who post to usenet, send email, and troll slashdot - no direction connection with real lfie and a person's reputation, so no real accountability.

    There's a similar web site called RateMyTeachers.com [ratemyteachers.com] that lets you rate high school teachers (its sister site, RateMyProfessors.com [ratemyprofessors.com], offers the same service for college profs). I've been teaching high school for 5 1/2 years now, and after my sister emailed me a link to the ratings site, I immediately told my students that hang out in my classroom during lunch to go to the site and say the meanest, most ridiculous things about me possible. Why? Simply to prove the point that if students who like me can say awful, untrue things about me and have them published on the internet, then it's impossible to take those reviews any more seriously than a slashdot poll.

    Now, as a professional educator, I value feedback and constructive criticism (it's a fundamental basis of education, so if it's good enough for our students, then why not the teachers?), but like any feedback, it needs to be accompanied with sufficient explanation and some degree of trust. Unfortunately, there's no incentive for anyone to be constructive or even honest on sites that allow anonymous ratings. Sure, you might be able to get an overall view of how students liked or disliked a teacher or professor, but giving them a numerical rating from 1.0 to 5.0 is as useful as basing a person's abilities solely on their SAT, ACT or IQ test score.

    If a student really wants to have an effect on a teacher, they should go and talk to them about the problems they were having or make some friendly suggestions. Is this going to work on every teacher? Absolutely not - teachers can be some of the most egotistical and defensive people, and there are some you simply can't reach. (You should see teachers react to having other teachers come into their classroom for peer review - you can almost see their skin crawl.) However, I've found some of the negative comments I received about my teaching, especially early on when I was student teaching, which was such a bad experience that I considered not going into teaching at all, and from students who try but are still struggling, are some of the most helpful when I try to improve my teaching abilities.

    However, I simply don't think online, anonymous reviews do anyone any good any more than high-stakes testing helps schools or students improve. The only way to improve a professor or teacher is to try to approach them about their shortcomings, and if that doesn't work (which really wouldn't be surprising), then switch classes and take someone you can enjoy, or suffer through it and hope the class goes quickly.

  • Re:Problem is... (Score:3, Informative)

    by LordHunter317 ( 90225 ) <askutt@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @12:16AM (#8245490)
    No, its only libelous if you are attempting to use the statements to damage a person's reputation or character. That's why its nearly impossible to win a slander or libel case in the USA -- unless the person slips up and writes down that they're intentionally damaging someone's character, you have no proof that'll hold up in court.

    Now in the rest of the world, the standard is much different.
  • pure bs (Score:2, Informative)

    by gt25500 ( 622543 ) * on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @12:30AM (#8245584)
    I've checked out this site in the past. Good teachers get good reviews. Bad teachers get bad reviews. Perhaps we should get rid of movie and book critics. The fact is, this teacher was most probably an asshole and deserved the reviews he got.
  • by PCM2 ( 4486 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @12:36AM (#8245635) Homepage
    Actually, slander is by definition spoken. When printed or published, it is libel.
    That actually depends on the jurisdiction. The state of Illinois, for instance, makes no distinction between the two -- all types of defamation are treated the same under the law. On the other hand, in California the definition of slander is much more specific than that of libel -- meaning you might overhear a spoken statement and quote it in print, and while the original speaker's statement might not be deemed slanderous, your putting it in print could still be considered libel. (Source: The Associated Press Stylebook.)
  • Re:Problem is... (Score:5, Informative)

    by bcrowell ( 177657 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @12:45AM (#8245704) Homepage
    I'm a physics professor (now tenured). A lot of the students at my school used this site [whototake.com] until recently. I didn't realize until today that this site, just like TeacherReviews, is being shut down because of threats of lawsuits.

    I think it's a shame that these sites are so vulnerable to this kind of legal abuse. I also take music courses at my school, so I'm both a teacher and a student at the same time. I've posted reviews of my music teachers, because I thought the site was a good idea.

    Switching back to my other hat as a teacher, it was always interesting to see the contrast between the whototake.com comments on me and the comments students would write when they were formally surveyed at the end of the semester. The online reviews seemed to be self-selected: AFAICT, only the most disgruntled 10% of the class would ever bother to post there.

    This could be the only exposure that his potential students get to him. A determined effort to slander his teaching ability -- when very people know him anyway -- could literally ruin his career, as tenure decisions are made in part on teaching ability.
    Well, no, because (a) the tenure decision would be made based on the surveys administered formally by the school; (b) research-oriented schools only pay lip service to teaching as an important component of the tenure decision; (c) tenure committees are made up of faculty memers, who realize that disgruntled students are generally disgruntled because they wanted an easy A and didn't get it.

    I have to admit to being a little cynical about the whole thing. Some students make good comments that really help me improve my teaching, but many just can't believe that they're really expected to put in 2 hours a week outside of class for every unit they're taking. Many of them write comments that just show totally unrealistic expectations, e.g., they complain that I won't let their whole lab group turn in a single lab report for a grade.

    It was also funny reading some of the things students posted on whototake.com about other teachers: DR SMITH SUCKS BIGTIME!! SHE THE FUCKIN WORST ENGLISH TEECHUR IN THE WORLD! WHAT A BITCH!!!! I TOOK ENGLISH 1 FROM HER. AND I HAD TO DROP! CUZ, SHE THINK WE GOT NOTHING TO DO BUT READ BORRING BOOKS. N RIGHT PAPERS N SHIT.

  • by dylan95 ( 307651 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @12:52AM (#8245776) Homepage

    Actually -- TeacherReviews is coming back.

    I put up another blog post this morning at about 4am about it:

    Quoted from
    http://www.dylangreene.com/blog.asp?blogID=3 88

    ==================
    TeacherReviews.com is coming back, and it's going to be better than ever - for both students and professors.

    The professor who threatened a lawsuit has decided to drop the case. This happened after we talked about the situation, the site as it is today, and the intent of the site, which has always been to help students, as opposed to insult professors. This professor is now helping the site by providing feedback to the new features from a professor's point of view, which is something I have not looked into before.

    Here are some changes I've been working on:

    Redesigned and rebuilt the entire site from scratch. Not one line of HTML, ASP, or stored procedure code is from the old site. There will be a fresh new look that will hopefully be easier for you to navigate, and the system will make it easier for me to plug new features into.
    I've reorganized the database. For example, departments are now associated with classes instead of professors - since a professor might teach classes in different departments, but classes typically don't change departments. All 34,000 reviews are still there.
    Reviews can be "Flagged for Removal." Anybody can flag a review, but only volunteers and I will have the ability to permanently delete them. When a review is flagged, you will see the grade and the flag, but not the content unless it is unflagged.
    When a Flagged Review is removed, it is considered Banned from the system. If a user has too many Banned reviews, that user risks being banned from using TeacherReviews.
    Professors who ask not to be reviewed will still have their names in the system and it will still accept new reviews for them in case they change their mind. Their reason for not wanting to be on the site will replace their reviews.
    Helping out:

    Contact your editors: TeacherReviews can make a great story for your school or local paper. I've been interviewed twice this week from different papers. Who's next?
    Donate: Donations will go toward improving TeacherReviews unless you say otherwise.
    Create Fliers: Schools always have players for posting flyers. Save those fliers because I'm also going to create a Flier Exchange to share your fliers with others.
    Finally - once again, thank you everybody who wrote in. As of right now (~4am), my blog entry "What Happened to TeacherReviews?" has just under 200 comments. I've received over 100 emails, and I think I managed to reply to every single one of them. If you didn't get a reply it might have been eaten by my spam filter.

    So... Save your TeacherReviews.com bookmarks. The new site is coming soon.
    ==================

    My first time being slashdotted and I was off watching The Daily Show...
  • RMT is better... (Score:2, Informative)

    by jkmiecik ( 242175 ) <slashdotdoesntne ... ess.com minus pi> on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @12:54AM (#8245793)
    There is a different website, called Rate My Teachers [ratemyteachers.com] that has a MASSIVE system of moderation in place so comments like the ones from this story never see the public. Before you say it's impossible to moderate all of that - the top moderator on that site has reviewed over 60000 comments. That's just the top one out 3662 moderators.
  • Forget it (Score:2, Informative)

    by SnprBoB86 ( 576143 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @12:55AM (#8245800) Homepage
    www.ratemyteachers.com
    and
    www.ratemyprofessors. com
    are still around.

    They are based on the same system (operated by the same people) and they have a pretty decent system for regulating comments and reviews.

    My major complaint with both of the fact that ANYONE can annonymously mark a comment as inappropreiate which allows anyone to "deface" the site.

    Also if a school's administration isn't careful just anyone (READ students) can become the admin of their www.ratemy*.com account very easily by writing a simple e-mail.

    i cant spell and i didnt type this comment in ms word first... sorry :-P

    -SniperBoB-
  • by br0ck ( 237309 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @01:04AM (#8245883)
    According to Dylan Greene's blog, THE LAWSUIT HAS BEEN DROPPED [dylangreene.com]

    TeacherReviews.com is coming back, and it's going to be better than ever - for both students and professors.

    The professor who threatened a lawsuit has decided to drop the case. This happened after we talked about the situation, the site as it is today, and the intent of the site, which has always been to help students, as opposed to insult professors. This professor is now helping the site by providing feedback to the new features from a professor's point of view, which is something I have not looked into before.
  • by Captain Beefheart ( 628365 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @01:22AM (#8245993)
    Actually, you have to prove that the statement is false; prove that it was intended to cause harm; and prove that the statement in fact inflicted harm that was directly responsible for noticeable damage to the recipient's reputation and/or finances. I am not a lawyer.
  • Libel (Score:3, Informative)

    by That's Unpossible! ( 722232 ) * on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @01:25AM (#8246014)
    For the clueless... yes, it is illegal to print falsehoods about a non-celebrity (and in most cases, a celebrity).
  • Freedom of speech? (Score:3, Informative)

    by KZigurs ( 638781 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @01:58AM (#8246179)
    Hello guys, are you really telling that your legal system is SO screwed now that you cannot post your negative opinion about some person online? Somehow I have always believed that this was quite an important point of Freedom of speech, that USA is so proud of. Or isn't the CNN the only entity in USA that has no rights to say anything true or unpleasant to someone else... Fuck the professors. I'm sure that even in case if maintainer of site GETS suied, it would be a simple post in a site to raise all the necessary funds for best legal defense someone can afford (and truthfully in such a case it would require about three hours of work from a competent lawyer + court appearance). Get a life, dear paranoid americans. Do you really will always consider that someone is threatening your positions? Then they were commies, now they are students. And your army still walks around the world doing whatever it wants without any reason.
  • by corbettw ( 214229 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @02:05AM (#8246221) Journal
    Abortion doctors get shot, gays get crucified, blacks get dragged behind pickup trucks, planned parenthoods get bombed, black churches get burned.

    Republican tend to resort to violence early and often.


    First off, only two wars in the history of the US were initiated with Republican Presidents in office: Gulf Wars I and II. Every other war from the War of 1812 on were started by Democrats (I'm including the Civil War in this, as it was Southern Democrats who seceeded from the Union and sparked the war). So to claim that Republicans "resort to violence early and often" is just plain assinine.

    Secondly, no political persusasion is free of nutjobs out to hurt or destroy innocent people (incidentally, the nutjobs who burned down black churches and tried to blow them up in the South in the 60s were all Democrats, as was Nathan Bedford Forrest, the founder of the KKK). Trying to paint all conservatives as violent maniacs is hateful speech, pure and simple.

    Why is it that liberals constantly feel the need to attack conservatives and their principles in such crude and childish fashion?
  • Re:Schools (Score:5, Informative)

    by Negatyfus ( 602326 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @04:35AM (#8246805) Journal
    Actually, this Slashdot article is kinda useless. If you read the article [dylangreene.com], it says the professor dropped the case and is not negotiating changes to the site with the professor to improve it. Part of the enhancements is a system in which users can flag reviews for deletetion, upon volunteers can then check it and permanently remove it.
  • by CGP314 ( 672613 ) <CGP@ColinGregor y P a lmer.net> on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @05:35AM (#8246992) Homepage
    How about starting RateTheStudents.com ? Would you like being publicly called a cheat or an incompetent lazy weasel (for good reason or not)? Would you like the profs to consult such a site before they start marking the final exam? I thought not.

    The difference is the professor is (potentially) providing a service that I am paying for. It is not the reverse with the students.

    -Colin [colingregorypalmer.net]
  • by saddino ( 183491 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @10:37AM (#8248429)
    Hello guys, are you really telling that your legal system is SO screwed now that you cannot post your negative opinion about some person online? Somehow I have always believed that this was quite an important point of Freedom of speech, that USA is so proud of.

    The US legal system has always defended against slander and libel. And thus, you're free to make as many negative opinions about people as you wish. However, you may not state falsehoods about people as fact.

    IMHO, the system probably doesn't seem as "screwed" if you are the victim.
  • Re:Schools (Score:3, Informative)

    by JLyle ( 267134 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @12:10PM (#8249410) Homepage
    If you read the article, it says the professor dropped the case and is not negotiating changes to the site with the professor to improve it.
    Just wanted to clarify that the parent poster (presumably) meant to write "... is now negotiating changes to the site...".

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