Pop-Up Ads Lead to Consumer Revolt, Ad-Blocking 697
securitas writes "The New York Times' Saul Hansell reports on pop-up advertising and the consumer backlash against intrusive advertising. It's worth noting that pop-ups and pop-unders are the most effective, lucrative and annoying online advertising form. The article discusses the boom in ad-blocker software, with AOL, Yahoo and Google getting into the game. Microsoft says that it will include pop-up blocking in IE when it releases WinXP SP2. According to one pop-under ad agency, 20%-25% percent of Web users have pop-up blocking enabled, double the rate of a year ago - Earthlink's numbers bear that out, with 1 million of its 5 million customers using its ad-blocking software 18 months after release. DoubleClick says that it is 'developing technology that will enable pop-up ads to evade the blocking software.' Why isn't that surprising?"
Not just pop-ups (Score:5, Insightful)
Thanks to this, I've pretty much squashed the "Get 1,000 Smileys Free" advertisements.
Now if there were only a way to block certain Flash advertisements and still be able to watch Strong Bad [homestarrunner.com] answering his e-mail.
Does advertising have to be annoying? (Score:5, Insightful)
At best, popup ads and other annoyances seems penny-wise and pound-foolish, sacrificing long-term customer satisfaction of the many who are subject to these ads and overall brand reputation for a potential short-term boost in sales from the few customers that do click through on annoying ads. For example, because I hate their ads so much, I would never buy any product from X10.
But I actually find Google's ads useful and click on them frequently because they're so well targeted to whatever I happen to be looking for. Targeted ads work. They show information or a product that's actually useful to me without getting in my way. Why do other advertisers continue to annoy customers with useless and irrelevant popup ads?
my bandwidth (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Does advertising have to be annoying? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Does advertising have to be annoying? (Score:3, Insightful)
New front (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Does advertising have to be annoying? (Score:5, Insightful)
Popups not the most effective online advertising (Score:5, Insightful)
Incorrect. Search advertising such those offered by Google (AdWords), Overture and numerous other players are better in terms of click-throughs, conversion rates, or any other relevant measure of advertising effectiveness. The same goes for online yellow pages advertising.
The point of these "directional" forms of advertising is that the consumer identifies a need or an area of interest before the ad is displayed. The very reason why this advertising is less annoying - its relevance - is why it is effective.
Re:Does advertising have to be annoying? (Score:5, Insightful)
I see people playing those little Orbitz shockwave ads/games all the time at work.
They may be annoying the hell out of the typical slashdot crew, but I imagine those work really well.
If I can stretch my assumsions a little further, I believe that's why pop-under ads are so successful. Most users are not uber-geeks... most internet users will blindly click the pretty little boxes that pop-up and attract their attention.
AC
'Blocking' is the wrong word (Score:5, Insightful)
Similarly, using lynx is not 'image blocking'.
There is a grey area when you try to have Javascript support enabled but limit the things a script is allowed to do. But really this is just closing security holes in the original Javascript specs (popups are a form of DoS attack).
But they're missing the POINT! (Score:5, Insightful)
What makes these companies think that finding means to actively go against consumers' wishes will be an effective way to earn their business? It's like the do-not-call registry. If I opt to be put on the do-not-call list, that means I have no intention of buying anything from a telemarketer. As such, the companies are not losing any of my business because I was never going to give them my business in the first place. If anything, they're saving money by not having to waste the 15 seconds it takes to call me and find out I'm not interested.
Common sense, people...
Appalling... (Score:2, Insightful)
I really feel for people with older machines who surf and don't use a blocker. My laptop is old and the thing practically bogged down with all the bloody pop-ups that kept opening up.
But look how FEW people few use it ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Most people don't understand what their computers can do, right now. I regularly amaze the users I support by helping them back up data and so forth, sometimes transferring data - like magic - over the network. People are amazed when they see they can send a document to their friend ... without using e-mail! It's all relatively mundane stuff, but it's beyond the comprehension of people who use computers ... drumroll please ... EVERY DAY OF THEIR LIVES. Think about that. Is there any other industry where regular, daily users of a technology are nevertheless bumbling novices at it?
I think it will take Microsoft's inclusion of this in IE to really shift these numbers. Until technology is forced upon people, most won't even realize they have the option.
What amazes me... (Score:5, Insightful)
But the other issue, is that 99% of the time when someone is getting the shit hammered out of them by popup ads it is because they've got about 15 parasites embedded into IE that sits and serves them all day.
True "pop up ads" only occur when you enter a site, or leave a site, and shouldn't just pop up spontaneously whenever the computer is on, regardless of whether or not you are on the inet. I've seen computers so laden with these that they are completely useless- you start the machine up, and it serves so many ads in the first minute that it crashes. But once again, the customers do not understand this, they simply blame their ISP.
Finally, the latest thing that i'm seeing (i work in tech support if you haven't figured this out yet)....
people will call up yelling and screaming and bitching and moaning about all these pop up ads they're getting. So i look at their computer and i start pointing to such things as Precision Time, or WeatherBug, or all these other "adware" programs they've installed as the culprit. They understand it when i tell them, but then i get things like "but i LIKE my Desktop Calender, i don't want you to remove it." or "but i LIKE my Huntbar." or "but i LIKE the MYWAY software, i want to keep it." and stuff. They will bitch about the ads, i tell them why they are getting them, but they don't want to fix it. However, this still doesn't stop them from calling up and bitching about the ads every other week.
It's a no-win situation for all concerned. I hate blanket statements, but the fact is, most of the people on the internet don't deserve to be there and will always be miserable, no matter how much you try to help them.
very simple (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Bandwidth is expensive.
2) Content isn't free.
3) Web users refuse to pay for the vast majority of their content.
4) Web users quickly learn to ignore any form of advertising.
Until that knot is unraveled advertising will get increasingly obnoxious. Look at your spam to see how far a distance there is until rock bottom is hit.
Computer misuse (Score:5, Insightful)
If I purposely put in place software to protect me from viewing popup ads, and you circumvent it you may be guilty of a "hacking" crime.
I did not authorize you to pop up ads on my computer, I explicitly configured to prevent this.
By enabling your software to evade my blocking software you can't claim that you were authorized.
When I take steps to avoid something, you can't claim implied consent anymore.
Re:Doubleclick may be trying to bypass blockers... (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you mean like the SPAM era has come to an end? Oh, wait
Granted, popup blocking may get better, but this is cyclical
expected, but disappointed nevertheless (Score:3, Insightful)
Granted Mozilla doesn't have large userbase, but if the Technology section of one of the biggest papers in the world isn't going to report on it, then mozilla will increase user base slower because people won't know about it (since it's reported less in mainstream media) and it reduces the reputation of the paper. I know lack of reporting on this is common, but it still galls me. People continue not to realize that better solutions than MSIE. And the developers continue to develop only for MSIE. and you know the whole routine. it's just sickening...
Re:Hmm (Score:3, Insightful)
The nature of a salesman is selling something that a person didn't know they need or didn't know they wanted, and making them feel like they need/want it.
A message to advertisers... (Score:5, Insightful)
2. I install a pop-up blocker.
3. You use pop-ups to advertise your product.
4. Your pop-up manages to avoid my blocker.
5. I see your ad and I think "Oh it's *that* product! Oh well that's okay then, I don't mind at all that *that* product is being pushed at me. I will buy that product immediately!"
Do you honestly think that's how it will happen?
If a company's first form of contact with me is showing me a form of intrusive, annoying advert that I have specifically decided to avoid then I will simply *not* buy that company's product! No ifs, no buts, no exceptions to the rule. Annoy me in such a selfish, arrogant way and you lose a potential customer.
But hey, I'm the only person who thinks that way, aren't I?
Flash Manager? (Score:3, Insightful)
There are legit Flash that need to be allowed to work.
Re:not a good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder about that. How is circumventing my pop-up-blocker against my wishes any different from me circumventing DoubleClick's firewall against their wishes?
I consider popups a form of DoS. They steal unwanted cycles from my CPU, steal the "focus" of my windows, and impede my work.
I've them in my host file for a while (Score:3, Insightful)
Evading the pop-up blocker (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd imagine it looks something like what sites like www.tek-tips.com are doing [tek-tips.com]. Instead of a top-level window, they do some fancy CSS that slides a box in front of the viewable content on the screen. Tek-Tips is using it as part of their content, because they want to bring something to your attention, but I could easily see this method being abused by annoying ad campaigns e.g. DoubleClick.
That'll be a lot harder to block, but it'll be blocked eventually. *sigh* just like spam vs. spam blocking, it's going to be another arms race.
Re:But they're missing the POINT! (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe they are - or maybe they're customers of an ISP that blocks them, or maybe their corporate sysadmin blocks them. Those are the people they're targetting, those that might not even know they're (mostly) protected by blocking. That's also why spammers try to evade spam filters. They're not after the geek who installs his own spam filter, they're after ISP customers and corporate desktop users.
Re:Its getting worse, Television AD's come to the (Score:5, Insightful)
My chosen ISP implements a bandwidth quota and excess charges. Will these web site operators who incorporate full-motion in to their web pages pay for my bandwidth?
The point's rather moot in my case though. They can kiss my arse as I will continue to avoid IE, and any web site that requires it. I'd like to see them hijacking my web experience considering I use Mozilla and a customised hosts file.
Two views of the free market. (Score:3, Insightful)
School Of Thought #1: Doubleclick says that it can legally bypass ad-blocking software to show ads to "customers" who clearly don't want to see them.
School of Thought #2: It is, however illegal to bypass protections to view media (e.g. DVDs) that one purchases legally.
These are intangibles bought with money but paid for by consumers.
Re:Not just pop-ups (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't take any skin off my back if Mozilla never becomes popular. Your first mistake was thinking that it does. I agree with the parent. The web isn't new. If the average Joe can't figure that things like Avant and Mozilla greatly enhance their web experience then shame on them. They're probably the same people who never bothered to find out that you don't need to keep the same homepage that your ISP gives you.
I know some people will think that's a snotty comment, but come on now. You have to take responsibility for yourself at some point. Web browsing isn't rocket science.
Re:Not just pop-ups (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Not just pop-ups (Score:5, Insightful)
Amen! I'm perfectly happy to let the people who aren't smart enough to download Mozilla subsidize my web surfing.
Just say NO to pop-[up|under] ad blocking in IE.
Re:Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
The former can be inconvienent, but I think is really a necessary evil. The latter, epitomized by spam and pop-ups, is vile.
The line between the two can be fuzzy, but there is no doubt whatsoever about low lifes who feel they have the right to invade your privacy because "A guy has to make money." Bite me. Get a real job and work for a living.
Re:A message to advertisers... (Score:3, Insightful)
Another part of why ads are so annoying is that research shows that people respond to very clear, in your face, obvious, and memorable ads. Since everyone on
However, popup ad blocking evading ads (long convoluted phrase) kind of cross a line into a realm that I don't think has really been researched. These are ads where clearly the advertiser is not wanted. I'm sure that if an advertiser paid some toughs to come to your house and kick your ass while chanting advertising slogans, you probably wouldn't forget that company. On ther other hand, would you buy their products, probably not, but then again you never know what some fools will buy.
NYTime information or informercials ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Earthlink are in competition with AOL for customers. AOL own Netscape and never bothered with a pop-up blocker on Netscape 7.0 even though the Mozilla had it because AOL are in the portal/Advertising business. Thus Earthlink had provided a pop-up blocker because AOL don't and Earthlink were on the prowl for new subscribers and not as interested in pop-up ad traffic.
Microsft have also not bothered because they too are in the portal business. Microsoft are thus like AOL in that they don't initially care about end-user experience but ad revenues. When the end-user experience becomes painful then they move their products on.
Opera are NOT in the pop-up ad business and thus have had a pop-up blocker as soon as they could code it. Same with Mozilla.
As to how much the NYT online is biased by ad revenue is another question but I don't recall seeing any mention of Open Source products being mentioned; just commercial ad-blockers, portal sites and other vendors.
You make your own call if its information or informercials. Me: I use Mozilla 1.5 and IE/Google - I'm happy.
Re:Doubleclick doesn't care what you think... (Score:3, Insightful)
I wonder if these advertisers have any clue how much the lose in sales. Not like most of us are going to send a "I was going to buy from you but I hate popups." message.
I was, in fact, going to do a whole home automation thing with X10 products way back before they started abusing pop-ups. Now the only way I'll do a home automation setup is if I find a different vendor.
I could forgive some vendors for using popups, but I won't cut any slack to those who use "pop-up blocker evasion" techniques. It shouldn't be a battle between me and businesses. If I'm blocking pop-ups, that means I don't want them... period.
Re:See? This is what sucks about Mozilla. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:A message to advertisers... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, I'm sure the mentality of spamvertisers is that they'll annoy 9,999 people but 1 will look at their product, and out of every 100 that look at the product, 1 will buy it. Annoying the million people who don't buy the product is irrelevant because why should the advertiser care about the feelings of a million non-customers?
But the age-old and more effective approach to advertising is to reinforce your brand in their mind by subtly reminding them of it with ads on TV and radio, in magazines, on billboards, etc. Such ads are never intended to provoke an instant reaction, and certainly not an instant purchase, but simply to say "we're here when you're ready for us". For some reason, most companies which advertise on the Internet have never understood this.
But anyway, any discussion on this subject is pointless. Spammers will never stop until someone stops them and that's why we need either vigilantes or proper legislation. I know which option I'd prefer, and maybe by the time we've tried that way the legislation will be ready...
Re:Does advertising have to be annoying? (Score:3, Insightful)
There's no real loss there, really. A marketing chick is like the high school slut - everybody's happy to poke her, but no self-respecting person would ever consider a long-term relationship.
Re:Not just pop-ups (Score:5, Insightful)
I used to think like that years ago after high school. The "screw everyone else" thing which was probably an effect of going to a college prep high school (school rule as explained by a Jesuit Brother: no wearing blue jeans because they're a symbol of the working class).
After getting a BA, I took a bunch of automotive mechanic classes at the local junior college which opened my mind to how close minded I was being. Working with people who could barely read/write but where able to engineer and build anything. I'm not saying most of the car geek students were illiterate.
Stuff that's basic for computer geeks, ends up being assumed that since it's easy for you to do, everyone should know how to do it. Try building an engine. There's people who don't know you can turn off the ISP homepage but can build engines in their sleep. But 90% of the time, if you ask them a question about it, they'll be extremely helpful.
I wonder if it works that way with computer geeks... maybe it's 90% of geeks who are helpful and you're just part of the 10% a-hole types.
Gasoline powered engines have been around since 1864. If you can't build an engine after they've been around 140 years, you must be an idiot.
Re:Not just pop-ups (Score:5, Insightful)
I do not believe in supporting any bussiness model thats sole purpose is to annoy me. PERIOD. I believe advertising does nobody any good if it is not targeted to the right audience. Most advertising on the web is closer to spam than product placement and if the advertisements didn't distract me while I was reading, I would not have filtered them away. If flash sold a version of its plugin where you could freeze whatever it was doing, I would pay extra for it. As it is, I no longer have flash at all. On a side note, Slashdots advertising is EXCELENT because the adds tend to be about technology (targeted to thier audience) and are placed where they are not distracting from the content (give the advertisers thier voice without having it being "screamed" at visitors). If most websites were more like Slashdot, then adblockers would probably never have become popular.
Re:Not just pop-ups (Score:2, Insightful)
Ads pay for internet. Some people accept them, some don't. As long as those who don't are a minority, the system keeps working. Anyway, those people pissed off by ads would react negatively to ads you would *force* them to watch.
The point is that blocking ads should demand some effort, some motivation from the user to be set up. As soon as an ad-escaping technic is too widely adopted, it mechanichally becomes obsolete, because doubleclick&al. will work around it.
The new kind of ad described in this news is easy to block, and blocking these will be proposed by many plugins very soon (provided that your browser enables these ads by default).
What concerns me is that at some point, they will eventually add and "examination" at the end of the ad, before to let you download the actual page. Something like "What's the actor shirt's color?" or "What soft drink is better than Coke?", or simply typing a word given as an image. That's already what's done to discard bot registrations on hotmail, for instance.
This day, ad filters won't be of any help for you, until they pass Turing tests. I'd like to push these times as far as possible in the future, and not providing too easy ad-blocking stuff to unmotivated people is THE way!
Evade My Host File! (Score:2, Insightful)
Not an even comparison (Score:3, Insightful)
The point is that if a better Web browsing experience was important to them, they could spend an hour (if that's what it took) poking around in their Web browser to see if they could change it to suit them better. It's all about time and curiosity. OK, illiteracy would be a barrier, but is someone who can't read likely to be a big Web surfer?
I've been able to learn the basics about car maintenance and the internal combustion engine without too much trouble. If someone is interested in learning something that would benefit them, it's probably not beyond their reach. The problem is usually that it never occurs to them that things could be better.