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Privacy United States

Northwest Gives Personal Data to NASA 440

Tree writes "Following four months on the heels of JetBlue's confession that they released passenger data to the Feds against their stated privacy guidelines, the Washington Post is reporting that Northwest has now admitted that they've done the same thing during a time period when they said they weren't. Nice. They were once my favorite airline."
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Northwest Gives Personal Data to NASA

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  • Northworst? (Score:3, Informative)

    by PiranhaEx ( 742431 ) on Sunday January 18, 2004 @02:35PM (#8014227) Homepage
    They were your favorite airline? You obviously don't live in Detroit. Here, we call them Northworst, and it really doesn't surprise me. This is after they've used taxpayer money to build an addition to our airport that they're now calling the "Northwest World Gateway," totally ignoring its actual name.
  • Re:Not NSA but NASA? (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 18, 2004 @02:35PM (#8014234)
    When my mother found out that her father had a long lost son, and that son worked for NASA, the very first thing he asked for when contacted was the names, address, and social security numbers of everyone in our immediate family. NASA has some of the tighest security in the US, maybe even the world. The reason for that security I'll leave up to your imaginations.
  • Story History (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 18, 2004 @02:38PM (#8014256)
    from an aticle on the same topic at nytimes.com:

    "We do not provide that type of information to anyone," Kurt Ebenhoch, a spokesman for Northwest, told The New York Times in a story published on Sept. 23.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 18, 2004 @02:39PM (#8014264)
    Northwest Airlines provided information on millions of passengers for a secret U.S. government air-security project soon after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, raising more concerns among some privacy advocates about the airlines' use of confidential customer data.

    advertisement
    The nation's fourth-largest airline asserted in September that it "did not provide that type of information to anyone." But Northwest acknowledged Friday that by that time, it had already turned over three months of reservation data to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Ames Research Center. Northwest is the second carrier to have been identified as secretly passing travelers' records to the government.

    The airline industry has said publicly that it would not cooperate in developing a government passenger-screening program because of concerns that the project would infringe on customer privacy. But the participation of two airlines in separate programs demonstrates the industry's clandestine role in government security initiatives.

    In September, JetBlue Airways said that it turned over passenger records to a defense contractor and apologized to its customers for doing so.

    Northwest said in a statement Friday that it participated in the NASA program after the terrorist attacks to assist the government's search for technology to improve aviation security. "Northwest Airlines had a duty and an obligation to cooperate with the federal government for national security reasons," the airline said.

    Records included personal information
    The carrier declined to say how many passengers' records were shared with NASA from the period offered, October to December 2001. More than 10.9 million passengers traveled on Northwest flights during that time, according to the Transportation Department.

    NASA documents show that NASA kept Northwest's passenger name records until September 2003. Such records typically include credit card numbers, addresses and telephone numbers.

    NASA said it used the information to investigate whether "data mining" of the records could improve assessments of threats posed by passengers, according to the agency's written responses to questions. At the time the agency also was exploring other possible projects aimed at improving air security, it said. NASA said no other airlines were involved in the project and that it did not share its data with other parties. The agency said it did not pay for the data.

    Northwest said it did not inform any passengers that it shared data with NASA. It also said it did not believe that the data sharing violated its privacy policy.

    "Our privacy policy commits Northwest not to sell passenger information to third parties for marketing purposes," the company said in its statement Friday . "This situation was entirely different, as we were providing the data to a government agency to conduct scientific research related to aviation security and we were confident that the privacy of passenger information would be maintained."

    The carrier tells passengers visiting its Web site that "when you reserve or purchase travel services through Northwest Airlines nwa.com Reservations, we provide only the relevant information required by the car rental agency, hotel, or other involved third party to ensure the successful fulfillment of your travel arrangements."

    Earlier admission
    The disclosure of Northwest's participation in the NASA project comes just four months after JetBlue's admission of involvement in a secret security project conducted by the Defense Department. JetBlue conceded that it violated its privacy policy when it turned over records on 1.1 million passengers. JetBlue is being sued by passengers in class-action lawsuits.

    The Northwest and NASA documents were released in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a nonprofit organization that advocates privacy rights and open government. The organization, which provided the docum
  • Re:Not NSA but NASA? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Zocalo ( 252965 ) on Sunday January 18, 2004 @02:44PM (#8014310) Homepage
    Indeed. I thought that MSN had simply mistakenly put NASA instead of NSA and the poster hadn't picked up on it too. The clincher however is the reference to "Ames Research Center" which is indeed a NASA facility. I guess they don't want Marvin the Martian visiting the US anytime soon...
  • double wrong (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 18, 2004 @02:44PM (#8014311)
    not only did they really mean nasa, but the beagle ii is an ESA probe. that's the eurpoean space agency.

    not that nasa wouldn't like the beagle to be found, but they're not the party responsible for it.
  • Re:Northworst? (Score:2, Informative)

    by CracktownHts ( 655507 ) on Sunday January 18, 2004 @03:06PM (#8014456)
    You obviously don't live in Detroit. Here, we call them Northworst, and it really doesn't surprise me.

    The correct name is "Edward H. McNamara/Northwest WorldGateway, and Northwest airlines picked up a good part of the tab. It's only fair that they get to stick their name on it too. Were you so attached to the dump that was the old Wayne County Airport? Most travellers weren't, I can assure you (I used to work at NWA, in the good old days before World War II I/II started).

    At any rate, it's rather disappointing to read about this lack of honesty on the part of NWA. Their PR folks claim that they didn't technically violate their privacy policy, and they're probably technically right, but it violates the spirit of the policy. I have a paid ticket on NWA in the near future, and believe me I'd cancel it and demand a refund if I had the resources to fight their system, but since I don't I'll just gripe about it on /.

  • by rickbender1940 ( 727218 ) on Sunday January 18, 2004 @03:17PM (#8014529)
    So if a plane flies over your house you should be given the credit-card info of the passengers inside?

    Great, maybe I can set up a hut in the flight path at JFK. Woo hoo, who needs to work!
  • by Ungrounded Lightning ( 62228 ) on Sunday January 18, 2004 @03:20PM (#8014546) Journal
    I was sure the submitter meant the NSA but looking at the story it really was NASA.

    Are they going to be sharing this info with the Martian Immigration Service?


    NASA is the National AERONAUTICS and Space Admin. The space program gets all the press. But they do a LOT of work on all aspects of commercial air flight.

    And while their work on cutting edge aircraft design (civilian, military, and research platforms) gets most of the press on their airflight side, they're involved in a lot of other stuff: Flight simulation, air traffic control, baggage searching devices...

    And, as you can now see, stealth people-tracking databases for the "war on terror".

    I'd suggest you contact your legislator if you object. But that might get me a heavy fine. (Follow this link [slashdot.org] {cloned from my current signature} to see what I'm talking about.)
  • by John Seminal ( 698722 ) on Sunday January 18, 2004 @03:22PM (#8014554) Journal
    The problem is they lied about it. And I would ask you to recosnider just giving away personal information because of national security. Will this really improve your security?

    Maybe it is just my tinfoil hat, but I see a slippery slope with government taking away more and more freedom, while collecting more and more information on its citizens. Is that reason for alarm?

  • Re:Not NSA but NASA? (Score:3, Informative)

    by wideBlueSkies ( 618979 ) on Sunday January 18, 2004 @03:24PM (#8014574) Journal
    From the article:

    NASA said it used the information to investigate whether "data mining" of the records could improve assessments of threats posed by passengers, according to the agency's written responses to questions. At the time the agency also was exploring other possible projects aimed at improving air security...

    Interesting how a seemingly unrelated government entity can become part of the story. Whether or not this experiment panned out, the decision to do this does show some creative thinking. Cool.

    But then again, NASA is a military resouce at times, so maybe this isn't such a suprising development.

    wbs.

  • by ChazeFroy ( 51595 ) on Sunday January 18, 2004 @03:33PM (#8014627) Homepage
    Northwest customer service: 701-420-6282
    Web feedback form: http://www.nwa.com/cgi-bin/gen_misc.pl [nwa.com]
  • This won't work (Score:2, Informative)

    by dickiedoodles ( 728410 ) on Sunday January 18, 2004 @03:57PM (#8014797)
    Surely in order for this to work NASA would have to know who on the list was a terrorist and who wasn't. It's like giving somebody a list of people's age and weight (and no other information) and asking them to figure out a system for knowing if they voted republican or not, it's just impossible to do without knowing voting trends for those weights and ages.

    The only way I could see this being used is to look at who gets drunk and causes problems on flights (I assume that airlines keep information on this) and place extra staff on flights with a high number of these types of people and while that's not a bad idea it's hardly "a matter of national security"
  • by Blue Stone ( 582566 ) on Sunday January 18, 2004 @04:00PM (#8014822) Homepage Journal
    "The CIA actually had nothing to do with Al Quada and bin Laden."

    Osama Bin Laden: How the U.S. Helped Midwife a Terrorist [public-i.org].

  • by teamhasnoi ( 554944 ) <teamhasnoi AT yahoo DOT com> on Sunday January 18, 2004 @04:02PM (#8014840) Journal
    AWOL [straightdope.com]

    DUI [thesmokinggun.com]

    Cocaine (from a right wing puplication!) [216.239.41.104]

    I'm sure you can find more sources if you look, I just went as fast I could, and tried to pick sources that are generally trusted to be accurate.

    There will always be those who say 'if the records aren't there, how can it be true?', but when you are in charge of who keeps them, where they are kept, and who has access to them, you can certainly manipulate them.

    Does the head IT guy at a company ever get busted for looking at porn?...

  • Re:So wrong? (Score:3, Informative)

    by stefanlasiewski ( 63134 ) * <(moc.ocnafets) (ta) (todhsals)> on Sunday January 18, 2004 @04:27PM (#8014984) Homepage Journal
    One that is true, however "An Evil Leader is typically not elected by a majority of the voters", happens to apply also to Bill Clinton, who did NOT get a majority in either of his elections.

    Actually, he did, unless by "NOT get a majority" you really meant "NOT NOT get a majority".

    Clinton won the majority during BOTH the 1992 and 1996 elections, in both the popular election and electoral colleges. Let's review:

    During the 1992 election [uselectionatlas.org], Clinton received 43% of the popular votes, and 68.8% of the electoral college. Bush lost because he received less votes then Clinton, 37.45% of the total, and 31.2% electoral college. Clinton won the majority.

    In 1996 [uselectionatlas.org], Clinton received 49.24% of the popular votes, and 70.4% of the electoral system. Dole received 40.71% of the popular votes, and 29.6% in the electoral college. Again, Clinton won the majority.

    By all counts, Clinton won the majority vote in both elections.

    Let's compare that to the 2000 election [uselectionatlas.org], where Gore received a 48.38% majority of the popular vote, but only 49.4% of the electoral college. Bush lost the popular election, with a 47.87% minority, but he won in the electoral college with 50.4% of the electoral college.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 18, 2004 @04:35PM (#8015034)
    Actually, he did, unless by "NOT get a majority" you really meant "NOT NOT get a majority".

    No, read it: "Clinton did not get a majority" in either election. Please check the facts on this. He got less than 50%. You can't get a majority that way.

    Clinton won the majority during BOTH the 1992 and 1996 elections.... Let's review: During the 1992 election, Clinton received 43% of the popular votes

    You make my case. A majority is in fact "The greater number or part; a number more than half of the total". 43% is less than half.

    "1996, Clinton received 49.24% of the popular votes"

    Still short of a majority, but by a smaller margin.

    By all counts, Clinton won the majority vote in both elections

    By the counts you present (which I will not contest), Clinton did not have a majority in either election.

    Let's compare that to the 2000 election, where Gore received a 48.38% majority of the popular vote, but only 49.4% of the electoral college. Bush lost the popular election, with a 47.87% minority

    So? Bush, Gore, and Clinton did not get a majority. All of the totals you mention are short of the 50% which is required.
  • Re:So wrong? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 18, 2004 @04:48PM (#8015119)
    During the 1992 election, Clinton received 43% of the popular votes, and . . . Clinton won the majority.

    methinks the parent doesn't know the difference between "majority" and "plurality."
  • Canadian Laws (Score:5, Informative)

    by iantri ( 687643 ) <iantri&gmx,net> on Sunday January 18, 2004 @04:57PM (#8015183) Homepage
    We just got a new law up here that makes it a legal requirement for businesses to notify you of EXACTLY what they are doing with your data, and forbid them from doing anything else without your permission.

    It sounds like such a law could be useful for you Americans right now..

  • Re:Not NSA but NASA? (Score:5, Informative)

    by phliar ( 87116 ) on Sunday January 18, 2004 @05:11PM (#8015275) Homepage
    NASA is the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Before space became cool, they used to be called NACA -- the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics. (Only newbies pronounced it "nacka" -- cool people said N A C A. The name was changed in 1958.) Just about all aviation research for US WW2 airplanes came from NACA, for instance. NASA still has the responsibility for aviation research.

    One of the cool programs that NASA Ames (at Moffett Field in Mountain View, Silicon Valley) has is the Aviation Safety Reporting Program [nasa.gov] for crew. If there's a safety issue on any flight, crew members are encouraged to send in an ASRS report. If you screw up in some way and cause an unsafe condition, and file an ASRS report, you get immunity from any FAA enforcement action [nasa.gov] related to the incident. Anonymised versions of these incidents are available in the ASRS newsletter "Callback." This program has done many orders of magnitude more for safety than any TSA Code Yella (or whatever the hell it is today) ever did.

    Of course this present hysteria-driven incident is repugnant. There is no way to be utterly safe, and infringing on citizens' privacy for some dubious profiling benefit is complete crap. I don't see how it's even constitutional to require gummint-issued photo ID from passengers. In a free society one is not expected to have "papers" to move about in one's own country. It doesn't even increase security: any high-school kid will be able to tell you how to get a fake drivers' license.

  • Re:Not NSA but NASA? (Score:5, Informative)

    by the_mad_poster ( 640772 ) <shattoc@adelphia.com> on Sunday January 18, 2004 @05:39PM (#8015457) Homepage Journal

    Interesting how a seemingly unrelated government entity can become part of the story.

    National Aeronautics and Space Administration

    NASA is, undoubtedly, most well known for its space initiatives. However, they have their fingers in everything from complicated probes on other planets to medicine here on earth. They help develop commercial technology that you use every day of your life and they do cutting edge research into any number of scientific fields that you may well not hear about for another decade or more, if ever.

    Frankly, NASA is probably second only to FEMA for underestimation of agency influence within the country. Those two agencies are either known only for very specific things, or never even thought about, but they have exceptionally broad, far-reaching powers and their fingers are in pretty much anything you can think of, even if you don't notice it.

  • Re:So wrong? (Score:3, Informative)

    by NortWind ( 575520 ) on Sunday January 18, 2004 @06:18PM (#8015716)
    Majority means more than half, not just the largest slice. Neither 43% nor 49.24% qualify, so by my count Clinton did not get the majority of the popular vote in either election.
  • Re:Not NSA but NASA? (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 18, 2004 @11:07PM (#8017387)
    For those who wish to - this a press release from Northwest Airlines [nwa.com]. It is, in fact, NASA. :-)
  • by Xconnect ( 577318 ) on Monday January 19, 2004 @12:16AM (#8017749)
    Just to share some of my bad experiences on NW.

    They made me go through a lot of unnecessary administrative tasks (i.e. I needed to go down to their office and show up in person) to get my seats upgraded (from Asia to the US) instead of being able to do it through phone calls or through their frequent flier website.

    They refused to upgrade my seats (from US to Asia) claiming that the business class seats were fully booked but when I boarded the plane, nearly the entire business class seats was empty (there were a few chaps). The lady sitting next to me was fuming as well as she had requested for the same upgrade and was given the same excuse. She had experienced DVT in the past and had told them of her medical condition. The flight stewardesses/stewards told her it wasn't possible to move her up despite her problems during the course of the flight.

    They cancelled a flight which I had booked ahead of time without informing me or my travel agent of the changes (USA to Asia) and I only found out about it when I tried to arrange for a change:

    Operator - "Sir, I'm afraid there's no such flight"

    Me - "But I printed the confirmation from your website!"

    Operator - "Sir, there is no such flight... but I could put you on Flight XXX at no extra charge"

    Jeepers! Needless to say, they've lost ME as their customer.

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