P2P File Swapping on the Rise Again? 319
asdf 101 writes "News.com reports today that 'After six months of declines, peer-to-peer usage recently climbed 14 percent.' Their bottomline: 'The decline came as the RIAA launched more than 300 lawsuits against file swappers. The reversal cast doubts on the music industry's claims that its lawsuits are working to deter people from illegally downloading music files.' I guess wake_up_and_smell_the_coffee time just gets that much more imminent for all the hacks at RIAA." There's also an AP story, and you might want to review this story from just a few weeks ago that has different conclusions.
It depends on who you ask... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd like to know, though, which P2P networks they're watching... (my apologies if it says so in the article, this is
Legal File Sharing (Score:2, Interesting)
P2P is only one aspect of file-swapping (Score:3, Interesting)
As a side note, I haven't touched anything but iTMS in almost a year (come April). Why would you want to pirate when there are great *legal* alternatives available?
My sharing has gone up (Score:5, Interesting)
I now bittorrent most stuff, and use Aquisition (OS X) for the most part.
According to everything I see, filesharing on the Mac is pretty much under the radar, which is fine by me.
Of course, I have a giant FTP server that serves everything I've ever downloaded, ratio free. I only give the addy/name/password to people I know, and that keeps leeches away, as well as the xxAAs. I freely share it all with people who need something. Why not? I know what I'm doing is against the law, but frankly everyone you know does something against the law everyday, whether they know it or not.
This is just my bit of civil disobediece. I'm posting this anon so I don't have a pile of emails asking for access.
Probability of getting sued (Score:5, Interesting)
I think people are still taking steps to limit their own personal risk (in the article this is reflected by It's important to keep in mind that file sharing is occurring less frequently than before the RIAA began its legal efforts to stem the tide of P2P). However, looking at people I know, I think a significant number of them who completely stopped filesharing when the RIAA started to file lawsuits are starting to do so again. My theory on this is that they've noticed that all of the people they know who still use p2p have not gotten sued, so they've concluded that some p2p usage is probably safe. This empirical result makes sense given the large number of p2p users, and the proportionaly limited number of lawsuits the RIAA has been able to file. Note that, this doesn't mean that p2p services are necessarily safe, it just means that for the majority of the population it appears that they are less dangerous then they might have thought they were a few months ago.
Underground (Score:2, Interesting)
just pushed things further underground. Small networks consisting of trusted ssh users and sneaker net via usb2.0 external drives is the most common way of moving media around here and no one has to worry about RIAA and friends seeing what's going on.
Re:How it all works (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure, you could drive to a store, but that involves getting off your ass, which is something manking has been trying to do less and less of since the Industrial Revolution. And store collections are severely limited compared to online collections.
The point is, there is a demand for instant on-demand entertainment, there's obviously the technology, but the only people who can allow it legally are dragging their feet.
Re:It depends on who you ask... (Score:5, Interesting)
I guess the fact that the numbers are going up again is mildly interesting, but I don't see that you can draw many conclusions the earllier drop in recorded p2p use. "Not telling" is at least as likely as "not doing". Promises of anonymity or not, it's human nature.
Count me among new file sharers (Score:5, Interesting)
Prior to this year, I had very little experience with file sharing. I always thought it took too long, required too much effort and I didn't want to worry about poor rips at low bitrates. I thought both sides have their collective heads up their collective asses. Traders whining about copyright law vs theft and the music industry doing everything they can to destroy themselves. I don't know what's more annoying, people saying that they steal because music is overpriced, or label executives saying that traders will put low-level employees out of business. Show me that trailer with the stuntman again and I'll barf! Plus, I liked to point out that just about every complete album I downloaded I ended up purchasing. It seemed like P2P was a non-issue and both sides were idiots.
Then I got sick over the holidays and ended up hanging out in bed. After my third straight day of Bond movies on Spike, I decided to see how long it would take to download Pitchfork's [pitchforkmedia.com] Top 50 Singles of 2003 on a P2P network. By the end of the night I had the complete list, and suddenly the challenge was "How long would it take to download their top 50 ALBUMS of the year.
In the last two weeks I've downloaded nearly 50 CDs (Only six of them were on Pitchfork's list). Many have been out of print albums, but many more have been straight-up recent commercial releases. The quality is awesome and modern software enables you to queue up a long list of files and forget about it.
I now see what the RIAA has been so afraid of. Just a few weeks ago I was spending $50 a week on CDs. Now I drive by a record store and think "What sort of chump pays for music?" I don't download because music is expensive -- I download because it's too freakin' EASY. If one of their strongest customers is so easily turned, what's up with the casual consumer. The media companies are screwed.
Am I being watched? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:It depends on who you ask... (Score:5, Interesting)
1. This is not seasonally adjusted. OK, reliable seasonal adjustment is not easy in usch a small data set, but comparing November to Septemer is a misnomer. In November college students have got they computer systems set up and want some entertainment but September they're just starting out and havn't got their computers set up (and the whole April-September season they're working or on holiday). How about some quantitive statistics so YoY% growth can discount seasonality.
2. I have noticed a serious decline (this is a personal observation, not any scientific analysis) in my turnover in several key P2P networks recently. Since Kazaa acted against KazzaLite clients and servers on the Kazaa network seem to have significantly fallen (thoug the population stats in the client browser show similar numbers as before), I suspect Kazaa implemted an update on the protocol, but don't have any details. On eDonkey it is increasingly hard to et a connection, let alone a decent DL rate, but ULs are saturated. On WinMX there has been a decline in availibility of most files. I would like to know the cause of these changes (it can't all be a updated implementation on Kazaa and a contagion effect on other protocols can it?!).
I know for one that I have changed p2p app (Score:5, Interesting)
My preferred client is Bittorrent++ [sourceforge.net].
Now, if you like to download stuff in an environment that kinda reminds me of the ol audiogalaxy days I strongly recommend you try out Suprnova.org [suprnova.org]. Obviosly this is still subjective to riaa 'snooping' as the clients dont appear to support ip range banning, but since they are Open source, anyone can be free to implement any sort of riaa spoofing/protection.
No more mass subpoenas (Score:3, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Why Don't Lawsuits INCREASE Traffic? (Score:4, Interesting)
Now the theory is that they announce these things and people get scared that if they use a P2P they'll get sued right?
Well when are the more likely to find people to sue? When they haven't done it for a while, or the day after they file a suit and are busy with legal stuff? I'm thinking that the time immediatly after the suits are announce would be the SAFEST time to use a P2P service.
Re:I haven't used p2p in months (Score:3, Interesting)
Mod files were incredible 10 years ago and are still pretty good today. I'm a little surprised that it never really caught on (which is too bad). I guess marketing does matter. Imagine one of those cheapo 64M USB flash drive / mp3 players (~$50USD) that could play mods. Since they're a lot of them around that are 100k or less that's a lot of music. Plus they transfer so much better than mp3s over a slow connection.
The parent posting was enough for me start exploring mods again. Thanks.
Escapology 101 (Score:5, Interesting)
I suspect people have taken to downloading files, keeping them a few days or weeks on their shared volumes and then deleting... many people have always done this, when you get a file you help a few more people get it, then delete the shared copy to reduce the likelihood of legal action against yourself
in other words P2P has become more distributed.. more multiply redundant. Less legally actionable.
RIAA, and your counterparts here in Europe. We're the people who you have to thank if you wake up in the morning: everything in your comfy leather-lined world relies on IT support.
Don't screw with us. You'll lose.
Re:I, for one, have stopped (Score:4, Interesting)
The fact that you and others buy used CDs creates a secondary market upon which primary CD buyers can rely upon to exist. Therefore, they're more likely to buy CDs in the first place and later on as they use the money from selling their CDs to used CD shops. The net result is increase sales. Hypothetically, used CD sales are a net loss as the total times the CD is sold decreases the net profit per sale. Hypothetically, also, CD makers make more as the used CD sales allow for CD makers to have a higher initial markup as the cutting-edge buyers pay a premium price and even buy a lot more CDs than they'll keep, selling most to used CD shops.
The sad part about this is the latter occurs with the real cost of production (excluding markup, which amounts to the price) is cheaper than used CD prices, and pirating CDs is even cheaper. The whole point of the used market, I always thought, was about selling objects that are in worse condition for a cheaper price than retail. But with intellectual property, you're selling a right to the work which is independent of the media it is pressed into, so why are used copyrighted works cheaper (realizing that most people wouldn't want to buy a used CD that doesn't play properly)?
Students... (Score:5, Interesting)
The RIAA was trying to spin the end of semester as a win for their cause...but as soon as they released the info, I'm sure they realized the error of their ways...it was only going to last for about a month...
So, why are all schools not blocking P2P??? Because, when you start blocking ports you start to take responsibility for what your users are doing (block KaZaA because it's "bad" and you have to block gnutella too)...most schools are simply throtling the most popular P2P ports...which isn't keeping students from downloading...
The artist got their money. (Score:4, Interesting)
Want to find a used store, here's a huge list... (Score:3, Interesting)
RecordStoreReview.com [recordstorereview.com]
Most have pictures and reviews so you know where to go at a glance.
Re:I know for one that I have changed p2p app (Score:3, Interesting)
Frankly, Bittorrent++'s GUI is too slow for my taste, and I don't think it's based on the latest BT protocol. These are BT clients I recommend:
And in all this.... (Score:3, Interesting)
That's the one factor they can't stop. Napster was the pain treshold.. since then, they've done a lot of stuff to make it harder - but in the end, it just keeps getting easier... it's like fighting the tide.
Kjella
Re:It depends on who you ask... (Score:2, Interesting)
What we need is some Free music, (Score:2, Interesting)
Downloading MP3s from RIAA bands is like using cracked software. Somebody needs to step up and do for music what RMS did for software.
Ticker (Score:3, Interesting)
This would be fun, and I could have it right next to my S&P 500, Dow, and Nasdaq tickers.
Re:I, for one, have stopped (Score:5, Interesting)
You have reduced your liquidity, but actually retained net value, thus, in a sense, obtained the music for "free."
And as a piece of property you retain all legal property rights, such as resale (see above), to use wherever and in whatever playback device you wish, the right to loan, the right to make backups for personal use, The right to use as a frickin' frisbee or wall covering if you want.
Yes, I buy used books too. Lots and lots and lots of used books. Dirt cheap at library sales. Sometimes very expensive used books, because they're out of print and the publisher refuses to sell me a copy anyway.
What happens when your favorite download site withdraws part of the library? I've got stuff from mp3.com. Stuff that I think is outrageously good.
I'd give you a link, but. .
Protect your right to consider your own property your own property. Buy used CDs and books.
You might even be doing your part to protect the intellectual property itself.
KFG
Re:How it all works (Score:3, Interesting)
Their argument is that one track downloaded on a P2P network could then be shared by that user and translate to thousands of future downloads. fair enough
Of course, that logic means the X1000downloads against the value of one track should be applied to those who make tracks available online not to JimBob "I downloaded one song" SixPack.
Anyone who downloads music in violation of copyright should pay penalties equal to the value of songs (and if they're not "released singles" , then to the value of whole albums) which were downloaded. Anyone who makes songs available should be sued X10,000 (or some other irrationally high multiplier) because they're distributing music in violation of copyright.
Of course, having said that, the RIAA really should get off their fat arse and make available lossless-encoded tracks available for (at least) Windows, MAC OS, Linux, *BSD in some "available as OpenSource decoder" format so that we can have a legitimate alternative to purchasing CDs.
Not that that will stop *all* the illegal activity, but it would then at least put them in the position of having some morals/principles.
Re:Count me among new file sharers (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not trying to take the RIAA side either. If anything, they started the whole ball rolling when CDs came out in the 80s, but you pit their business model against P2P and there isn't going to be any new popular music within a year or two. Frankly, even if the industry converts 50% of its sales to downloads right now, the main revenue stream will be entirely decimated. Sure, the back catalog will survive for a few years longer, but as we're already seeing the only new music is going to be coming from small independents. I just think we're in for some really dark years ahead of us while all this gets sorted out. In the meantime, try to support your local store as much as you can, whether new or used, CD or vinyl. We may reach a glorious download utopia some day, but we might also kill all possibility of that upfront.
RIAA New ad campaing (Score:4, Interesting)
Mine is getting hit by them every few days because I speak out about the wonders of the P2P..
yes my weblog link is in my profile..
Re:What?! You mean (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:RIAA New ad campaing (Score:3, Interesting)
Mine is getting hit by them every few days because I speak out about the wonders of the P2P..
That's interesting, because I, too, have seen riaa.com in my referral logs, and the only mention I've given them is a post stating I'd think it amusing if they sued me. [spinsugar.com]
It makes me wonder if the RIAA might be spidering sites for mentions. If so, to what purpose? If it's to gauge the public's opinion of them, they have to know that most people find their tactics abhorrent.
And why spam referrer logs? Are they trying to scare the naysayers into thinking they're being watched? I think this says a lot about the RIAA's attitude towards consumers/potential consumers.
Anyone experiencing similar log "spam"? Anyone care to confirm if they are actually coming from the RIAA or just some bored kids looking to freak bloggers out?
<evil grin> If damning evidence can be produced, I am sure some of the same places that were all over the "RIAA sues 12 year old" item would loooove to hear that the RIAA is suing some timid little college girl's personal website. </evil grin>
Singles figures - online music stores? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:You're still helping the RIAA (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Socialists (Score:5, Interesting)
At the same time Wal-Mart pays its employees low hourly wages it also makes sure they are all considered "part time" as much as possible, thereby relieving themselves of the burden of providing them any sort of benefits whatsoever. Of course, those employees do still get healthcare coverage - the friendly bosses at wallyworld make sure their workers get complete instructions on how to apply for public assistance. So not only does wally get a nice fat piece of land at no cost, he also gets a workforce whose health is maintained by subsidies from the local taxpayers. Wallyworld provides nothing at all to our national defense or anything else - it's just a bank account getting fatter off the labor of a government subsidized workforce. It's corporatized socialism.
By what stretch are these two organizations even remotely comparable?
No shit (Score:2, Interesting)
Slashdot hates - HATES - the artists. More than anyone even, including the RIAA - and that's saying something. Ultimately, Slashdot wants to control the artist, to shape him into a being that exists solely for the pleasure of the Slashdotter - an entertainment slave. To this end, because offering CDs for reasonable amounts of money and expecting the Slashdotter to pay for them would be out of the question, Slashdotters want to see artists forced into a nomadic life of perpetual touring, surviving in a state of poverty on the meager funds brought in by low ticket prices and merchandise sales. Slashdotters hate for bands to be successful. Any band playing amphitheaters or arenas has "sold out" to the "mainstream" and does not deserve to be patronised. This is because the "mainstream" is beyond the control of slashdot, and any artist entering it is, in turn, freeing himself from the shackles of Slashdotters' self-centered desires. Slashdotters want to choose how much - and WHETHER! - to pay for the music they download. Most importantly, that music MUST be encoded in ______ [obscure format] at ____ [bitrate] with ____ [special encoder switches] or they will REFUSE to pay - but will STILL demand to be able to download this music anyway. (It is curiously both free and sub-optimal at the same time.)
"But whenever I use P2p, I send the artist a buck!" Sure you do, and that disheveled homeless drunkard who just asked me for a quarter really only wants it because he's trying to catch a bus ride to see his mom in the hospital. "Micropayments" seem like a great idea around here because they are just what they sound like - small payments, which are better than big payments, right???
Slashdot is full of grand ideas about how the copyright system is totally and completely fucked. I don't know - maybe it is. But when you consider that the underlying motivation for the perpetuation of this viewpoint in discussions here is the deep-seated desire to get cool stuff, like big-name music and movies, for free, maybe it's not the copyright system that's so fucked... maybe it's Slashdot and its head-up-the-arse notions of morality and fairness.
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't be stupid (Score:1, Interesting)
Sales are down *slightly*, and most *informed* commentators note that sales of a lot of things go down in a recession. They are still making a lot of money; maybe some record exec had to cut down on whores and coke for the week, or maybe they couldn't get the biggest new yacht or jet this year, but hey bucko, there's always next year for a new yacht or private jet!
But remember, music is immune to economic forces. Their music is specialer than other commodities and therefore sales would never go down. Damned pirates!
Re:I, for one, have stopped (Score:2, Interesting)
Besides that whole Mozart effect... I really can't stand Mozart. Franck, Hayden, Bach, Beethoven, and AC/DC... Less accountants, more poetry.
My general happiness at purchasing a CD and my unhappiness at being broke doesn't factor in as much as you would think. Some purchases are crapshoots (kind of like eating at Hung Fat take-out. Could be something good; could be a wild night in the bathroom.), but in all cases, I have retained use of the CD (i.e.- the music) for nothing (the CD still retains it's value whether I use it or not). The CD and the music are distinct entities. If I could whistle with more vim, I wouldn't need to purchase CDs at all. Alas, my orthodontic care wasn't great; my whistling quite poor.
Put in those terms, a CD seems like quite a value. A used CD even more (the price of admission has now dropped. The content is the same.).
Or in other terms, what if I purchased the CD for less than market value? Has the store's happiness increased? What if I stole the CD? Again, the use arguments apply; the happiness arguments do not.
But that is not even a point where I agree with KFG (well, at least not whole-heartedly). Protecting the intellectual property. Now that's a pretty nice insight. It's kind of like being party to a secret. By purchasing a CD, I've become party to that intellectual property. I can share it with my friends. I can piss off the neighbors. I can travel back in time and play it for the King of England. The ideas are a part of my vocabulary and anyone else in earshot. Can't regulate it: I know what I know. I think this is the part that aggravates the RIAA.
It also puts the intellectual property thingy into context: you can patent the use of an idea, but you can't patent the idea itself without severely regulating who has access to it (and by limiting access, you limit its' profitability). As soon as you present it, everyone can improvise off of the idea; the RIAA is akin to a plumber trying to take credit for the entire house.
All of which I hadn't really considered before reading KFG's post (god, I sound like such a suck-up). In short, I've always been impressed by what s/he has to say (here and otherwise) suck-up or not.
Your arguments however...
Besides, why would you care? Attempting to impress a neer-do-well. There are better uses for your time.