Lindows Ordered To Stop Using Lindows Name 922
TheSpoom writes "InfoWorld reports that Lindows, a distribution of Linux and other software designed to emulate Windows, has been ordered to drop their name after Microsoft won a preliminary injunction yesterday from judges in Finland and Sweden."
The rest of the story: (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Easy (Score:1, Informative)
But is Lindows on sale in Sweden? (Score:5, Informative)
And seriously, I kind of agree with the judges. "Lindows" is a bit too close to "Windows". They should try to build their own name by themselves.
sweeden stops lindows too (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The rest of the story: (Score:3, Informative)
Head to http://www.choicepc.com/ [choicepc.com] and get yourself that t-Shirt you cannot buy at the gap.
Dw
I still think "windows" is a generic term... (Score:3, Informative)
Comments from Deposition of William H. Gates... [lindows.com]
"Virtually every application has the ability to put multiple things on the screen that you'd call windowing.
"The idea of splitting a screen up so you have one thing in one place and something in another place I think has been referred to windowing, certainly in the '60s that was called windowing."
Re:Copyright/Trademark Extension? MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:5, Informative)
Inappropriate use of trademarks occurs when rational people might confuse the infringer's X (product, action) with something put out by the trademarkholder. In practice, this often amounts to that the infringer must be in the same or similar line of business. In practice part 2, there may be infringement even if you're in another line of business if a reasonable person could conclude that you chose that trademarked name in order to play off on existing fame/notoriety/image of the trademarkholder.
Therefore:
Re:What I don't understand..... (Score:3, Informative)
Or, for the short vesion: Ask Xerox and Kleenex why protecting trademarks is important, even when it involves the little guy.
Disclaimer: I am not (yet) taking a position on whether Lindows is or should be considered a trademark violation. That comes next:
Frankly, I'm confused as to how "Windows" can be trademarked at all. "Microsoft Windows" is one thing. "Microsoft Lindows" would be an obvious violation, right? Like "Rolexx". But "Windows", as a common English word, shouldn't be able to be trademarked IMHO. I think it's a bit more of a stretch to say "Lindows" violates a trademark on "Microsoft Windows". I think this is one of those gray areas -- the similarity is obvious. The big issue is *consumer confusion*. I think one can make the case that "Lindows" is obviously meant to be associated with Windows, and since it IS in fact from a competitor, that it could thus fall under the spirit of a trademark violation.
Imagine trying to start a Mac clone company that made "Orange" computers (insert obvious joke here). Obviously not the same trademark, but that doesn't mean that there's no chance an average consumer might be misled, either...
Xentax
Re:In Other News... (Score:5, Informative)
In Germany, Microsoft has allegedly licensed the Explorer trademark from a relatively unknown software company. At some time, this software company was rigorously protecting its trademark against those who offered or recommended software such as "FTP Explorer".
Re:Doesn't stop them (Score:3, Informative)
Talk to Capcom [capcom.co.jp] about this one. They had this sweet, sweet game called, "Biohazard." Unfortunately, there was a rock band by the same name in the U.S.
So, here in the U.S., it was called, "Resident Evil." History was made.
Re:didnt know? (Score:5, Informative)
Recently there was something similar in the news (I thought it was on Slashdot, but I can't find it right now).
Lindows has no presence in the Netherlands. However, there was one small PC salesman from a village in a rural area that was going to sell them.
He got an official letter from Microsoft, explaining that since Lindows had no presence and he was the only one selling, they were going to sue him over the trademark issue. The Lindows top man heard of this, and announced he would go to the Netherlands immediately to find out what was going on. The small salesman was rather overwhelmed by all the attention.
But it now seems like MS may have been doing this all over Europe, and it's gone mostly unnoticed by Lindows.
Court said "maybe", not "you're right" to MS (Score:2, Informative)
From the article:
Now this came from a partisan Microsoft sales slime, not the courts. All the courts have apparently ruled is there exists the possiblity of trademark infringement and confusion in the marketplace. As such, the safest thing to do is protect the revenue stream of the complaintant until the issue is resolved - hence a temporary injunction.
I loathe MS as much as the next geek, but really MS has won nothing here. Move along please.
Re:Suckage. (Score:2, Informative)
I hope you're right, but when I speak about open source to non-techies the first question is usually "Can it run Office?" Then I have to go into the OpenOffice sales pitch. It's an uphill battle, the key (imho) is convincing them that they're only using Windows as a shell for Office.
Re:didnt know? (Score:3, Informative)
It may not sound fair to have an injunction granted without being able to defend but:
a) immediate injunctions are meant to apply to emergency cases where the delay caused by a reply and a hearing would be inappropriate;
b) the burden of evidence to get an injunction is usually more than that needed to win an end case.
Re:But is Lindows on sale in Sweden? (Score:1, Informative)
I do agree though, also because it's misleading customers into thinking they'll be able to run their Windows programs on it, which was their original intent that it would.
I also don't particularly like that they trash-talk other Linux distros as not being "user friendly" enough, and lying about them not having the "features" of Lindows. Just check out their "information" on Linux distros here [tryoutlinux.com], on a site they've sponsored.
How about-- (Score:3, Informative)
The Lindow Operating System.
First, Microsoft will have a harder time attacking this due to the fact that it is closer to "X Window System" than it is to "Microsoft Windows."
Personally, I think that the WIndows trademark should be nullified simply because there are other, older software packages still in common usage, particularly X who share a very common name. Since trademarks cannot be selectively enforced, this creates a bit of a narrow trademark for Microsoft. IANAL, but I think that Lindow would be clear.
Also, Lindow is the name of a peat bog in Western England, Cheshire, iirc. Hence the 2000 year old Celt who was dug up there was called Lindow Man.
Re:Not surprising - just different philosophies (Score:5, Informative)
Re:comprehensible? (Score:3, Informative)
So, if the courts are going strictly on the populace's native language(s) and usage, then yes, windows is a unique, trademarkable word (if their legal system is like ours). Certainly Finns and Swedes know that window is a common English word, but I don't think that would fit the court's standard for a common word in either country. It is, in fact, foreign.
Re:didnt know? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Copyright/Trademark Extension? MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:2, Informative)
At least in the US, Microsoft's trademark is not for "Windows", it's for "Microsoft Windows". Several other software products already contained the term "Windows" at the time Microsoft attempted to grab the term.They couldn't, at least without adding the Microsoft part of the name.
Microsoft is trying to stealth-grab the term that they couldn't get legally, and the court has been bamboozled. (Did I really just use that word?..sheesh) Unless the new company contained more of the unique aspects of Microsoft's product name (like a play on the word Microsoft), the Lindows name should stand if the system is to remain sane and legitimate.
On a more general note, recent trademark legislation is at odds with the reality of a crowded namespace and increasing globality of markets. Coders know how to deal with this, lawyers may take a while to catch up. Eventually, we'll either have the case where
1) A finite number of desireable trademarks are controlled by multinational big biz, or
2) Lawmakers understand and apply scoping rules that allows local application of trademarks and follows market and product segmentation closely and quickly.
It's a choice between local variables and gw-basic style global variables. And Bill Gates has the lobbying power. Heh, just guess which one it will be...
Re:Lindows in bed with SCO anyway (Score:4, Informative)
Re:But is Lindows on sale in Sweden? (Score:4, Informative)
No, fonster (Swedish for "Windows") would be generic in Sweden. But I guess I could trademark fonster in the US.
And how did Microsoft get a trademark when X Windows was already being sold in Sweden by a number of UNIX vendors?
I don't know. Maybe X Windows wasn't trademarked in Sweden/Europe. Or the trademark holders failed to protect their trademark.
Also when did Microsoft get a trademark in Sweden?
1992 I guess.
You can check the web page for patent och registreringsverket which handles trademarks. Search here [www.prv.se] (javascript required). The search page is in Swedish.
"Lydelse" = Trademark text.
"Sok" = Search
"Aterstall" = Clear
Also note that a trademark is registered in classes. I couldn't find a list over what the class numbers mean though.
TI EXPLORER LISP MACHINES ... (Score:2, Informative)
CC.
Re:Donate money to help!!! (Score:2, Informative)
The problem with "Windows" is not the common meaning, a hole in your wall with glass over it. The problem is that prior to "Windows" the GUI OS environment, there were lots of other GUI OS environments that featured "windows". The word "windows" has a specific common meaning in the context of computer operating systems that predates the trademarked OS made by Microsoft.
Nonetheless, if I were going to pick a point to attack Microsoft on, this would probably be the last point on my list - I don't find trademark law to be too offensive, and I think strong trademark law is important to business in general. And in all honesty, Microsoft aren't twits about their trademark name most of the time - Michael Robertson is trying to see how far he can push the beast here before it tries to snap his neck.
Re:In Other News... (Score:4, Informative)
So if the package was called "Licrosoft Windows" or "Microshaft Windows", I think they'd have a case.
But not for "Lindows".
Re:In Other News... (Score:5, Informative)
You may be right, but Lindows is using a tactic in their US court case that may work. May.
They're saying that "Windows" is a generic computing term, especially in GUIs (which it is). You are not supposed to be allowed to trademark generic terms.
If that part works, then Microsoft will lose their trademark on "Windows" by itself. They could still have thier trademark on the phrase "Microsoft Windows", but they would no longer be allowed to have the word "Windows" itself trademarked, like it is now.
They're also going after the fact that Microsoft has failed to try and protect their trademark in the past, and that the only reason they are doing so now is because the Lindows.com "LindowsOS" is a competitor. (Trademark laws state you can and will lose your trademark if it is not actively defended.)
So far, it seems US courts seem to be agreeing with Lindows.com on the issue.
Re:Lindows in bed with SCO anyway (Score:3, Informative)
Lindows.com is not a party to the legal disagreement between SCO, IBM and other technology companies. Until more facts are presented, Lindows.com will not take a position as to the validity of the claims presented by either side.
Their agreement predates SCO (made during Caldera days), and they don't take position on SCO's claims until it's resolved.
Re:Copyright/Trademark Extension? (Score:3, Informative)
Problems with this: (Score:5, Informative)
Typically if a trademark is huge (like Pepsi, Nike, etc.) the scope of the mark is larger and more leeway is given to the holder of the mark.
On the other hand, there is a long established history of "sound alike" marks. The famous mid-century German camera was the "Leica". The not-so-famous japanese clone was the "Ricoh" (which with a Japanese accent was indistinguishable.)
It should also be said that "Window" is *not* a Microsoft trademark. Apple's first Macintosh OS used the term "Window" to describe an enclosed area of screen real-estate used by a specific application. This is important because a trademark should *not* be descriptive in terms of functional value.
So part of the issue here is the strength and recognizability of the "Windows" trademark (which granted is huge) versus the functional, descriptive, and commonly used term "Window".
The judge clearly gave Microsoft a wide berth in terms of ownership -- making the judgement call that "Lindows" was in fact too close to "Windows" -- which in turn raises some questions: What about AOL's "Messenger" product -- has Microsoft infringed? What about "StarOffice"? (or "OpenOffice"?). Let's not forget that "Office" is also a Microsoft trademark.
One could then argue that "Messenger" is in fact a 'descriptive, functional' term... but then again... so is "Windows".
The crux of the problem is this: In the rapid development process of software creation and technology in general, the 'descriptive/functional term' and the 'protectable tradename' are typically closely linked.
Given that one cannot trademark a term that describes 'functional value', this presents an inherent problem with software and technology trademarks, and gives an unfair advantages to the first mover, or the established market leader.
Re:How about X Windows? (Score:3, Informative)
They get kinda uptight about being called "X Windows".
intelos become ntelos for same reason (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Well... (Score:3, Informative)
" Wine is a generic word, Lindows is not."
window is a generic word. windows is the plural of a generic word. what's the difference? should microsoft be able to copyright such a word?
It's a trademark, not a copyright. So far the courts have upheld this mark.
Re:In Other News... (Score:1, Informative)
That's true in the US, and indeed why injunctions against Lindows failed, but they own the "Windows" trademark as it relates to computer operating systems in Finland and Sweden, and likely in the Netherlands as well.
Re:In Other News... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:In Other News... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:In Other News... (Score:2, Informative)
"It is undisputed that several other companies had developed interfaces with an overlapping windows feature prior to the release of Windows 1.0 in 1985."
and
"The USPTO's February 17, 1993 Final Action stated that 'the term Windows is widely used, both by the public, consumers, and the relevant industry, to name a class of goods or a type of software, that is, a genus of goods, referred to as windows programs, or windowing software."
Those are taken from a Judge's order, BTW.
read more here: [lindows.com]
Yeah, I know, ideally they should be independent links, but at least you know it's not just my opinion.
Besides, what's the likelihood that MS actually came up with something new on their own? (Even if it's just a name!)
The real issue that issuing that trademark was a mistake in the first place -- too bad that MS didn't come up with something original and probably wasted money advertising and building a brand name they don't have strong claims to (or really, probably *any*).
It's still to be decided in the US, but it's certainly not just my opinion and not that impossible that MS loses the term "windows".
Re:The simple solution (Score:3, Informative)
Re:In Other News... (Score:3, Informative)
Not just Germany. In the US, there was a web company founded in around 1995 or so called "Internet Explorer". They completely owned that trademark. Microsoft bought them out just to get it.
Re:Well... Lets's not forget. (Score:3, Informative)
Trademark, not copyright.
Once more:
Trademark, not copyright.
They're completely different beasts. Yes, it would be screwed up if a court gave MS a 'copyright' on the word Windows, but they didn't, so it's not.
--Jeremy