Police and Lawyers Love E-ZPass 736
John_Schmidt writes "The AP is reporting that police are using EZ-Pass records to solve crimes. Lawyers are also getting the records to use in divorce cases. The article also mentions that the NYS Thruway has sensors to read the cards along the highway (not just at toll booths) but says the data is scrambled and not stored."
Re:Simple solution (Score:5, Informative)
Re:How soon.. (Score:2, Informative)
In cases like that, they could go after the people who take tickets just as easily as those with EZ-Pass (or Fastlane in MA etc)
Duh... (Score:3, Informative)
Dipshit didn't design it, you get one of those from E-Z Pass when you get your tag. Maybe he made one that looks a little less like an anti-static bag that a computer component would come in, bu it's not original.
Cell phones too (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This is just part of the cost (Score:2, Informative)
If I was planning on doing something seriously illegal, I'd just ditch the tag first
I'm beginning to believe we will never be able to get people to understand that government snooping is worrisome even to law-abiding citizens. They came for the Jews, and I wasn't Jewish...
Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, the transportation authorities routinely delete their tracking info so that even a subpeona can't retrieve it.
Houston uses it for traffic tracking (Score:5, Informative)
Since the transponders are compatible with other Amtech/TransCore [transcore.com] systems, even vehicles from Oklahoma [pikepass.com], Dallas [ntta.org], and other cities help keep the map up to date. In fact, the Dallas and Houston tollway systems are now interconnected -- the same tag will let you cruise through both systems.
Of course, the privacy implications of this convenience have been obvious from the beginning. If you have the need or desire for true anonymity, though, you're not in the market for a (non-disposable) cell phone or a TollTag anyway.
Re:How soon.. (Score:3, Informative)
No points for your license.
Re:Paper trail for IRS (Score:5, Informative)
With that said, I don't see how establishing a pattern that you went over the tappan zee every day as to show how much money are you actually bringing in. If you claiming you are only making $24k a year, when you live in a $300k house and drive your $30k truck over the Tappan Zee every day, there are a multitude of ways to figure it out.
Re:Hype and FUD ? (Score:3, Informative)
This is simply incorrect. First of all, black box recorders for cars are still experimental. They are not sold in any new cars today (unless you read something in the latest Autoweek, which has not made its way to my door yet).
The only vehicles that have a GPS which sends a signal when the airbad is deployed are cars equipped with OnStar (on GM cars, Mercedes Benz uses a different system run by a company in Texas whose name I cannot remember right now). This is an optional pay service -- you don't have it unless you pay for the service.
Every car sold today in the US it required to have airbags. They are not, however, required to have a GPS device or an onstar-type system. Car manufactureres are extremely cost-sensitive. They don't just drop $300 systems into cars without telling anyone about it (there are a few exceptions, but this is not one of them). I'm not sure where you're getting your information on this one, but it is simply untrue.
Re:incentives? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I have a solution to this problem (Score:5, Informative)
Don't do anything wrong. Then you won't have to worry about the police tracking you.
That's remarkably naive. If politicians stopped making everything I'm currently doing illegal in a vain attempt to be seen to be doing something, or if police weren't so blindly zealous in their enforcement of laws that the public they are their to serve and protect doesn't want, then *maybe* I would have less to worry about. As it is however, if I change nothing in my behaviour, I'm fairly certain I would be arrested within 5 years - despite not breaking the laws of today.
It's the old story... make everyone a criminal, then you can detain anyone you want.
Re:How soon.. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Hype and FUD ? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Hype and FUD ? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:How They decide speed limits (Score:1, Informative)
After talking with one of the engineers who was setting speed limits on a new road once, most speed limits are set by *braking* distance. They look for the most difficult to see point for a car to pull out, or a child to run out, then work out the speed at which you are 80% (I think it was) likely to be able to slow down to a point when the kid will survive, (Note, *not* a complete stop.) or your car be minimally damaged.
Then the political bullshit is applied over that. Sorry, if you want to live with humans, you get political bullshit.
Most drivers, however, ignore braking distances, and consider steering to be the limiting factor. Then they bitch that they can take the corner at 3 or 4 times the posted limit. Until they write their car off on a deer hidden just around the corner, like a friend of mine did.
Re:How soon.. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Hype and FUD ? (Score:5, Informative)
http://privacynotes.com/EDR_Automotive/
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/automotive/2029
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/front/3
http://www.seniormag.com/headlines/blackboxcars
Re:How soon.. (Score:4, Informative)
Many government services require a moneyorder or certified check, such as the Penna vehicle sales tax. The application states not to send cash, and they discourage the use of personal checks with warnings of delays in service till the check clears.
There is a law or IRS regulation requiring IRS notification of any cash purchase of $10,000 or more. I remember seeing the notice hanging in the local Radio Shack back in the early 90's
Can you pay the IRS with coins?
Been tried, and it doesn't work.
The government makes the laws, those laws can be written to favor them. Many laws already are written that way:
The Government states that you owe taxes, You have to furnish proof that you do not. If you owe back taxes, along with taxes and possible penalties, you also have to pay interest.
If you prove that the Government owes you, they do not have to pay interest, nor are they penalized for holding on to your money. Why is this so? Because they wrote the rules to favor those in power, while trying to limit fraud and abuse of the system.
The Government that prints the statement of legal tender on the bills can choose to stop printing that statement. They stopped giving the bearer of silver certificates the equivalant value of sterling silver in the 60's, what makes you certain that they will honor cash in the future?
Transponders for monitoring traffic conditions? (Score:2, Informative)
But why use these transponders which have to read unique EZPass numbers, when all they need is little pressure strips in the road, like at red lights, which would be much, much cheaper, and of course the privacy concerns would be greatly diminished?
I would put it to you, dear reader, that this transponder issue is dodgey. Here in Melbourne we have web based traffic maps, and signs on the road to say how many minutes until such and such exit, and it's all done very well and accuratly without the need for transponders or uniquly identifying each vehicle.
In fact, thinking it through a little further, if the ostensible purpose of this system is traffic management, why on earth would you *want* unique information? Surley you would be more interesed in aggeragate statistics...
Re:Hype and FUD ? (Score:3, Informative)
Just doesn't work that way. First, the OnStar GPS tracks position only - there is no geographic data until the coordinates are uploaded to Onstar's service center. And, the car doesn't have some sort of telemetry system that's constantly broadcasting information - the connection is through the AMPS cellular network, which is god-awful expensive to use and takes around 10 seconds just to send through the coordinates.
With the purchase of a Caddy, you get the premium service for free for the first year (other cars get basic service). So, if you touch the blue button, you'll get a rep, and they'll likely offer to help. But you need a tinfoil hat if you think that someone's constantly watching you drive around to see if you're lost.
Re:Simple solution (Score:3, Informative)
Speaking of tin foil hats ... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:How soon.. (Score:2, Informative)
"This note is legfal tender" (Score:3, Informative)
The above quote comes from the Bank of Canada's website has a FAQ [bankofcanada.ca] on the use of currency and what you use and how you use banknotes to pay debt.
Does the vendor/retailer have to accept banknotes or coins. Not really, and I suspect that the law is probably the same in the US since the majority of this law is common or case law. An exception is The Currency Act which sets out limits on a tender of payment in coin. The specific limits can be seen at the above site." [bankofcanada.ca]
Re:How soon.. (Score:3, Informative)
You sure you're talking about the same thing?
All EZPass detectors are mounted above the car lanes, those big white panels. That's the way it works for all Metro NYC bridges and tunnels, the NYS Thruway (up to Albany, I haven't been west).
The readers will NOT work in the glove compartment. I got a new car with new plates, didn't have the velcro so I had it sitting in the glove compartment. Went through three red lights before I realized that it wasn't the lane was broken but the pass wasn't mounted... and got fined for each of those three violations. So no, it does NOT read from within the glovebox.
In rentals, I've tried rubber banding it to the visor, and flipping the visor forward when I pass under. It sorta works, but I have to drive the car a little to one side so the device is directly under the antenna. I've gotten fined a few times because I'd forgotten to either flip the visor forward, or to have it precicely in the center of the lane.
I've also tucked the pass under my leg when going through some tolls and pay cash, when I *don't* want them to know where I'm going and when. Or if I know I've got to make point A to point B much faster than I want their computers to know.
So no, it does not read through metal. It doesn't read through body parts. It had a hard time reading unless it's sitting in the middle of the winshield directly in the middle of the lane. Really, it's pitiful how poorly it does work.
Re:How soon.. (Score:2, Informative)
Here, this should clear up all the confusion. This explains what legal tender is and contains links to the government sites defining EXACTLY what legal tender is.
Re:How soon.. (Score:3, Informative)
Well see congresspeople write these ideas on peices of paper, they call these, "Bills". Then they get together and submit these bills to this whole big group of people called Congress...heck, maybe this will help [kidsandpolitics.org]
Re:Hype and FUD ? (Score:5, Informative)
"most recorders store only limited information on speed, seat-belt use, physical forces, brakes and other factors."
"gives critical data about speed, breaking and seat belt use."
"Generally, all newer cars with air bags are equipped with modules that determine when the bags are deployed."
and, the piece de resistance, from your last link:
Gosh, no GPS. Funny thing. Ya don't suppose those boxes might NOT have been meant for Keeping The Man On Top(TM)?
Gosh, it's unthinkable. Quick, put the tinfoil hat back on. They's a-coming.
Re:incentives? (Score:4, Informative)
Actually I work for an Independent Insurance Agency and none of the carriers we work with (there are dozens) are talking about (or even have this on the drawing board) doing anything like this.
There was some talk sometime ago about some of the carriers looking to use GPS to verify garaging information -- i.e: Why do we have your garaging address as Syracuse when your car has spent the last 45 days in New York City where the rate of accidents and thefts are ten times higher?
But this hasn't happened yet (the carriers have no way to actually get this GPS information -- even if your car comes with the Black Box, which most of them don't) and it's hardly the road to a police state. We call lying about the garaging address "fraud" -- if you do this and get into an accident and they find out about it two things will happen: 1) They won't pay your claim (better hope you don't get sued) | 2) They will likely refer it to the authorities for prosecution as Insurance Fraud.
Also, your comment about the discounts isn't completely accurate (at least in my state -- admittedly I don't know anything about Insurance law outside of NY and our laws tend to be on the more liberal side). You can get discounts for defensive driving, having etched window glass (with your VIN), paying the policy in full (vs installments). You can also get surcharges for convictions or previous claim activity (we lump it all into the generic term 'incident'), having a poor credit score (if your carrier uses them -- not all do), or being an inexperienced operator (defined as less then three years licensed -- at least in NY).
If your auto insurance is starting with a really high rate and then being discounted down you are probably with a non-preferred carrier like Progressive. You need to find an Independent Agent who will write you with a preferred carrier -- if you don't qualify then chances are you are either young (in which case you are SOL) or have nobody to blame but yourself (excessive number of incidents).
In any case I think it will be quite awhile before we see any Insurance Carriers mandating GPS usage. Before they could do this they would have to clear it with the state insurance authorities -- in my state I doubt it would ever happen. As it stands right now it would be illegal for them to do this in my state -- surcharging you for speeding implies that you were convicted of speeding in a Court of Law after having had a chance to defend yourself. And even if you are convicted of speeding oftentimes they won't pick up on it -- not all carriers spend the money to run MVRs on you every time your policy comes up for renewal. We've had insureds get DWIs and not have the carriers find out about it.
Re:How soon.. (Score:3, Informative)
Because you don't know that the road is empty. Someone could pull out in front of you. Someone could run onto the road. You wouldn't have time to react at 140mph. Someone could get killed.
Speed limits aren't repressive tools of a repressive government. Speed limits are usually in line with the maximum safe speed of the road. And don't give me this bullshit of "it's not speed but speed difference". Yeah. Right. At higher speeds, you cover more distance in the time it takes you to react. Your brakes take longer to stop the vehicle. Basically, when the shit hits the fan, the faster you are going, the more likely you are to hit something. Moreover, when something does happen, you are decelerating faster, which means more force and more destruction.
Excessive speed is always dangerous. Are there situations where high speeds can be reasonably safe? Absolutely. Can we trust drivers to make that determination. Absolutely not.
Re:How soon.. (Score:3, Informative)
You mentioned 3 speeds, 55, 60, and 75
55^2/55^2 = 1
60^2/55^2 = 1.19
75^2/55^2 = 1.86
So you see, a bit of change in speed does make a difference.
Re:How soon.. (Score:3, Informative)
Details of the incident, please. I'd love to hear about it.
The last time I witnessed something like this was over 20 years ago at the IRS office in Houston. Back then, local offices had a teller function. One day a guy comes in and to pay off a liability and he's obviously peeved about the whole thing. I don't remember the amount, exactly, but seem to recollect that is was in the low thousands, maybe between 1 and 2 thou. He produced thousands of rolls of pennies to pay the liability.
The manager of the teller unit stuck strictly to established procedure. He put one teller on an open window to serve everyone else and immediately got another teller to volunteer for overtime. The two of them then proceeded to accept the payment according to procedure, which required every payment to be counted three times prior to acceptance and issuing a receipt. They then broke up the rolls and, by hand, counted all those pennies three times. It started in the morning and went on till late that night because this little teller cage, a fine place to drop off a check, didn't come equipped with a machine to count coins. It all had to be done by hand.
The guy who was paying thought it was funny, at first. Then he tried to leave. But he couldn't have a receipt until it was all counted. And he had to be present for the counting. Every time he had to go to the bathroom, the conference room was emptied and locked. If he wanted to leave, he'd either have to wait for the count to be finished or take his money with him.
So he sits. And waits. And watches. And glares, while the manager and teller count and count and count. After a couple of hours, his wife was literally screaming at him about what a jerk he was and how they couldn't take all those pennies back to the bank because the rolls had been broken and she damn sure wasn't going to re-roll them. Eventually, she told him he started this crap and he was going to have to finish it. Then she stormed out and left him there.
In the wee hours, the teller unit manager was nice enough to let this guy use a phone to call a cab. For some reason, he didn't want to call his wife to come pick him up.
The moral of all this? Government entities take cash. In this age of staff-slashing, they don't like to because they've often shut down their teller functions. But if you show up at an IRS office to make a payment and you insist on doing so in cash, it'll be accepted. You may have to talk to the manager, but if you insist on a Form 809 receipt (the only form from the IRS that's truly a receipt), you'll eventually get them to take the money.
Uh, NO. (Score:3, Informative)
The E-Z Pass card happens to be just yet another RF ID tag. Place the tag behind a metal shield and the thing won't work. Put it in a metalized anti-static bag (Instant Faraday Cage...) and it worn't work. So, how would the EZ Pass readers see a tag through large metallic objects, hm?
How are they perfect? EZ Pass works by placing a tag in the windshield or front bumper of the vehicle in question. Better yet, how would they "jam" the signal. Jamming implies emitting interfering RF energy- the trucks might shield the signal coming from the reader if the tag's not in the proper place (windshield or bumper), but that's not the same thing and isn't really applicable in this context.
Okay, what "speeding sensors"? It doesn't take special sensors or rocket science to determine that someone was speeding by computing the time it should take from one reader point to another and then determining how long the tag took (by way of being on the vehicle) to go from one read point to another. Shorter times implies speeding at or above a given average speed at some point on the trip.
Re:How soon.. (Score:3, Informative)
it's not 15 miles, it's 14 miles. 15 minus 1.
so he was only doing slightly in excess of 140 miles per hour.