McLaughlin Defends Site Finder As 'Innovation' 507
psimeonbeta2 continues:"Additionally (shades of Darl) he suggests that an anti-capitalism animus is behind the resistance to sitefinder. This despite the known problems that sitefinder caused and despite the fact that breaking the DNS standards may have constituted a breach of contract on Verisign's part. Resistance, he concludes, must be due to some sort of techno-religious fervor.
While Verisign's chutzpah certainly doesn't rise to fiaSCO levels, I find the similar tones in spinning the issues at hand to be truly disturbing. Not only did Verisign screw us by changing how the internet works at a fundamental level, now they purport to be irritated that we didn't thank them for the favor! At least in this case the good guys(cherish this moment, ICANN!) won."
Utter Crap (Score:5, Insightful)
If someone types in a bad domain name, they should get a message that states just that. I don't know if there are any statistics on this, but for me 9 times out of 10 it is a typo. If not, then you can go to the search engine of Your Choice and search for the name.
The decisions made over the next months and years will determine the future growth and vitality of the Internet
Should Read
The decisions made over the next months and years will determine the future growth and vitality of the Verisign.
His rational (Score:3, Insightful)
Let someone else innovate (Score:5, Insightful)
Innovation? (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a difference between actual innovation that benefits society vs. people just finding a way to take advantage of the system.
Re:I kind of like SiteFinder (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other hand, some of us like having the choice to let the user-agent do that when NXDOMAIN is returned, which uh, it never is with Sitefinder.
(I mean, I like root beer. Therefore, I think that all fast food chains should make it the default, and not provide user choice... after all, I like it.)
-ben
Of course it was innovation (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing is, not all innovation is good. In this case, VeriSign innovated, and most people didn't want their innovation.
If they like, they could provide the *exact* same innovation by distributing a fully opt-in browser add-on.
Look at it from both sides... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now looking at Sitefinder from the technical perspective, it's a scary ass "development". As once again, calling the wrong 800 number, the person could say "Oh this happens all the time, but I know a better place get (insert product/service here)! Try calling...", here in lies the devil!
It would be nice to have the feature in the first instance, but we all know that it will end up being served as in the second instance (besides all the anti-SPAM issues, et la). <rant>Since the CEOs of now are children of the 80's, everything always boils down to the all mighty $</rant>. BUT... is there any way that this idea could be put to good use?
The Internet Will Break... (Score:5, Insightful)
Bullshit. This is clearly written from the perspective of the user, who will click the pretty buttons while completely unaware of what's going on in the background. Instead of asking "anyone who has used it," why not ask a DNS admin or someone who is similarly qualified to make a decision on this point? Those people will tell you loud and clear that this thing indeed caused serious problems.
service and profit (Score:3, Insightful)
the annoying part is the opportunity for verisign to make a good profit out of this as there are quoted millions of mistyped URLs daily.
however who wants/can to provide a sevice (which costs money) for free? or even, who wants to not make a profit when there is profit to be made?
anyway, if site finder is associated with a neutral web directory like dmoz.org, it might be a different story.
"End to end" was the innovation. (Score:5, Insightful)
What was innovative was the concept of a network that just provided connectivity, and allowed the users at the network termini to provide the innovation.
To call SiteFinder innovative is like cutting the wings off an airplane and saying that you've created an innovative new form of ground transportation.
Sitefinder itself is anti-capitalist (Score:2, Insightful)
Standard are there for a reason (Score:5, Insightful)
Innovation? No, world's second oldest profession (Score:5, Insightful)
Uhh... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Look at it from both sides... (Score:3, Insightful)
So back to the base question: "Why?"
Answer more money into the Versign pockets.
Re:Let someone else innovate (Score:4, Insightful)
Wrong place (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Innovation (Score:3, Insightful)
Simple, they knew the stink it would cause. It is the same tatic I have used with my wife when wanting a new toy -- It is better to ask for forgiveness than permission.
Re:Let someone else innovate (Score:2, Insightful)
These comments are already full of analogies of how silly his point. When you act as a register or a controller over some major infastructure you have a responsibility to manage it in a fair and impartial way. If you don't no one will go to you for your services. Then you can no longer do business...
Re:I kind of like SiteFinder (Score:5, Insightful)
Suppose your power company decided, all on its own, without consulting you or anyone else, that they were only going to supply 90 VAC to your home or office instead of the usual 120. Some pieces of equipment would work fine, others would simply fail, or even destroy themselves. You would probably not have any idea what the hell was happening. That's pretty much what Verisign did to programs that interact with
What Verisign did rocks the foundation of trust that other nations have in America's ability to operate such globally important services. Verisign's upper management needs an attitude re-adjustment, or better yet complete replacement with more ethical businessmen.
Sitefinder not innovative (Score:4, Insightful)
The web browser is the right place to implement such a feature. Providing extended functionality to the user is the role of the user agent.
Implementing it all the way down in DNS is just bonkers.
Where should innovation be done? (Score:4, Insightful)
</rant>
Re:I kind of like SiteFinder (Score:2, Insightful)
The only time I just type something in is if I want a pr0n site. They're usually the ones that have the domain names for legitimate stuff. Like www.whitehouse.com. I always forget the .gov. ;-)
Re:"Innovation" (Score:4, Insightful)
' The word they are replacing is "invention." Only now we innovate, which is deliberately vague but seems to stop somewhere short of invention. Innovators have wiggle room. They can steal ideas, for example, and pawn them off as their own. '
innovation ? (Score:2, Insightful)
if he says that stopping SiteFinder will slow down innovation.. I say they are slowing down the innovations. We could innovate Mozilla, IE, Safari, etc to automatically go to specific server on DNS errors. And sites like SiteFinder could contract with those browser owners for redirects. Guess we can't do that cuz Verisign killed that innoviation with their innotivative SiteFinder
bobRe:I kind of like SiteFinder (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean, I like root beer. Therefore, I think that all fast food chains should make it the default, and not provide user choice... after all, I like it.
No, this would just mean that if you ask for a beverage (or entree) that they don't have, they give you root beer, and you can't return it.
Re:I kind of like SiteFinder (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sitefinder not innovative (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean if AOL wanted to put this sort of rule in their DNS server, more power to them. If cox.net wanted to do it, great. If my work wanted to do it fine. If they are prepared to suffer the consequences, and will allow me to route around it, I'm fine with it.
The people who run the core of the DNS system for the two most commonly typed domain names? Gosh darn irresponsible. Just insane. Bonkers. Foolish. Strange. Inappropriate.
I don't mind others breaking their perspective of the internet. However, I have serious issues with people who break my corner of the internet.
Kirby
Re:The Internet Will Break... (Score:5, Insightful)
DNS admins should have a louder voice on this not because they're "fellow geeks," but because when something goes wrong, they are the first to notice. Therefore, their opinion on the question of "did something go wrong?" is more important.
It's not the sabotage I mind... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm reminded, distantly, of a hoax that took place in the art world in the Sixties. A modern art exhibit was set up at a small downtown (NY) gallery, with about forty paintings, and an art critic for one of the major rags came down to check it out. He started doing this gush to the curator full of the usual ArtSpeak jargon, and then the hoax was revealed: the paintings were all the work of a two-year-old boy. There was a pause, and then the critic shifted gears as if nothing had happened and started gushing about the purity of a child's untarnished perspective!
The more I live, the more I see that people will do absolutely anything to pretend that everything is just hunky dory, even if it means being a consummate horse's ass. VeriSign are just the latest heirs to ass-dom.
Re:Please Note... (Score:2, Insightful)
Including invalid queries. There's an error code for nonexistant domains for a reason.
Re:I agree (Score:1, Insightful)
why not just port 80 (Score:2, Insightful)
Another issue.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I kind of like SiteFinder (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I kind of like SiteFinder (Score:3, Insightful)
IF the STATE has given you the sole authority to distribute beverages to all fast food chains, THEN you have an analogy...
Re:In other news (Score:3, Insightful)
Heartless? Undoubtedly. But also thick. Your health care system is one of the most inefficient in the industrialised world, and it still doesn't cover a large chunk of your population. High costs for drugs, corrupt marketing techniques, and stifling of medical research are characteristics of the US health care system. In comparison, universal health care systems such as Australia's cost less overall and deliver better health care to more people. Anyone who thinks the US health care system is good (let alone the best in the world) really needs to make a slight effort to find out how other countries do things.
Why do we give corp. execs the time of day? (Score:3, Insightful)
Jesus, what else is this a**hole going to say? It'd be great if they could say what's really on their mind:
"Profit is our number one motivation. F*ck the Internet, f*ck standards, f*ck all you others who get in the way of us making a profit. We are duty bound to make money for our shareholders and we aren't going to apologize for it. Now f*ck off."
Instead, we all pretend they are making valid arguments when they talk about "service to the community," "innovation," and all the other "we care" b*llsh*t they spew. The bottom line is that when anything gets in the way of the bottom line, they will f*ck their own mothers to get ahead. The sooner we realize it the better.
Re:Innovation (Score:4, Insightful)
There's also a new technical meaning for "innovation", which is synonymous with "monopolization". Whenever you hear Microsoft saying "innovate", substitute "monopolize" to extract the true meaning. Now it's the same with VeriSign(R).
Re:I kind of like SiteFinder (Score:2, Insightful)
Not only because of all the technical implications, but, more importantly because it sets
the precedent that the
they choose with. If ICANN cannot stop this, then ICANN truly has no power to manage
it's resources in the public interest. If ICANN cannot do that, there is noone elase with
the public mandate to do so. This could be very bad going forward.
Given how hard Verisign is working on the PR engine against this, we should make it
as clear as possible that this is a significant operational issue with significant impact
to the community. We should stand united that this is a bad thing first and foremost,
and worry about the infighting about how bad later.
Owen
Re:Innovation (Score:3, Insightful)
There's lots of bullshit out there which isn't doing the majority of people any good... and, in fact, is doing good to a very small number of people and hurting everyone else in the process. That kind of stuff needs to go away, and innovation is the way to do it.
Good innovation is finding a better way to do things that makes life safer, easier, more enjoyable, or more tasty, like hot grits on a statue (just kidding!).
But, I would argue that some innovations will only push society along the path toward total commercialization, loss of identity, universal culture, and monopolization. A society built in this manner is weak, because everybody will share the same weaknesses... so if you can knock one man down, you can take control of the whole culture. Some significant amount of diversity is the best tool for survival and stability (in a big-picture sense)---nature shows us that.
So, really, anything which makes our lives more commercialized or monopolized, while it may appear at first glance to be potentially useful, might contribute to a major problem down the road of losing the diversity that makes us strong.
But, I could be totally off my rocker... after all, I am no longer rocking, and I can't seem to find the armrests on this here piece of carpet.
(Yes, I realize I am somewhat America/Euro-centric. Forgive me.)
Re:Sitefinder not innovative (Score:3, Insightful)
What is bonkers with COM and NET is, for example, if I type www.bonjourdefrance.com, I get a French only website. If I type www.bonjoudefrance.com, I'd get SiteFinder, in English, not French, which is clearly the language of the person doing the search. (And that person may not speak English.)
Similar points are valid for other languages.
Here, VeriSign have failed to ask: who uses
Dealing with DNS failures should be dealt with nearer to the user doing the DNS request (where more information is available about what they want, e.g. their probable languages, etc.)
Re:lets think of it neutrally (Score:4, Insightful)
What about the phone? I am sure that millions of people everyday dial a wrong number and have to do something about it. Most of us understand how to find phone numbers when we need them, yet we don't work for the phone company (NOTE: Author actually has worked for a Telco).
It is not impossible to find a site if you mistype it. I do that all the time, I just resort to typing a search term into my browser's search box and look for what I need.
If people have an implicit understanding of what to do and where to go for information, SiteFinder is redundant and useless. This is an issue of raising the technological savvy of a people at large, not obfuscating what is happening.
Not unique, adheres to standard, does break things (Score:2, Insightful)
The slashdot article suggest that a standard was broken. It is not, and the editorial does not mention it. For the record, the Internet Architecture Board wrote:
Last, contrary to what VeriSign claims, it DOES break (parts) of the Internet. See all examples mentioned in the IAB advisory above. For example, consider what happens if you type "myprinter.mydoman.com" instead of "myprinter.mydomain.com" in your CUPS configuration. Without the wildcard, you get a simple message that you made a typo. With the wildcard, you have a hell of a job finding out why you can't connect to your printer.
Re:Innovate? Innovate? (Score:3, Insightful)
Alternately, perhaps the USPS should be selling them. The USPS has a long history of fairness, transparency (they might open your packages, but they tell you they're going to do it beforehand, and they make the rules pretty clear) and of charging only as much as it costs to cover their costs. That's why postage to send a letter between any two places in the continental U.S. is still a mere thirty-seven cents. The USPS is at once among the most inexpensive and the most efficient postal systems in the world. If I would trust any government agency to issue certificates, it's the USPS.
Re:The more "innovation", the less invention! (Score:3, Insightful)
Ha, there's even a proverb: "those who talk about it the most, do it the least."